Ask HN: When did tech stop being cool?

308 points by dvh1990 ↗ HN
I grew up a millennial tech geek, spending my days lurking on Tom's Hardware, playing and modding video games, tinkering with code and watching Star Trek. Wherever I looked at the world's problems, more technology seemed to be the answer.

Nowadays I'm a software dev and tech entrepreneur. At best, technology bores me. At worst, it terrifies me. Today's startups are solving the most boring problems imaginable. Gadgets are a snoozfest. Programming languages and frameworks seem to be running in circles.

We seem to be experiencing diminishing returns on tech for the past few years. More tech is no longer necessarily better. Is this just a phase before the next big industrial revolution?

When did this start, and when is the drought going to be over?

364 comments

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I put the change somewhere in the 70s, when NASA made space travel boring. It wasn't all their faults, they had lots of help.
Partly it's just growing up and having a tech job. You've got less time to play with tech, and learning itself becomes less interesting because you already know most of it.

When it comes to business, a lot of verticals have been monopolized and tech has shifted from making tools that users pay for to weapons of mass distraction where the objective is "growth and engagement".

When computers stopped being computers, tech, cutting edge; and simply became part of the landscape. Now they're part of everything and everyday life. But being a programmer can still be cool.
Oh, this is a question I actually have asked myself before!

The definitive answer is July 10, 2008; App Store opens, and ushers in this new age of garbage software.

The app store wasn't immediately garbage, though. Apps on smart phones started off being inventive or at least interesting. It was when the gold rushers came in after seeing success that the system became increasingly filled with things designed not to help you the user, but to extract maximum profit from you as a customer.
I don't know, there's always been garbage software, it's just mass market now.

I also happen to think techies can get a bit snobbish about it all. Techies always just "know" to avoid garbage, but there must have always been a market for it. There's still a bunch of cool stuff you can get buried under free to play micro transactions/advert based games.

One of the things I like about the app store, and a reason I moved into mobile development, is that it's easier than ever to be a one man dev team again, good or bad

Absolutely. A lot changed with the advent of mobile devices, almost none of it for the better. Don't care if it's not in vogue to say it, lowering the barrier of entry to the Internet was a mistake. It was better when it was gatekept and companies weren't seeking to extract every possible dollar out of it.
When the money replaced the talent and curiosity.
The internet has exploded where mainstream is connected. I grew up with IRC, 56.6k modems, trading playstation ISOs, on genmay instead of hackernews, etc. We are still here, there are just more around us where you have to dig a little.
For the tech, I am really excited about VR and brain computer interfaces. Just made an arduino weather station last night with my son and on the weekend made a VR room builder for webxr. I go in cycles though, maybe you are in a down cycle?
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The appearance of "smartphones" and Facebook killed the cool for me. That, and hearing tech-illiterate morons extol web 2.0 with tireless aplomb. It was sometime in 2008.
feel like that time was closer to a golden age if anything
I remember feeling in the mid aughts like a bunch of marketing bros who didn't know shit about tech, were flooding into tech. They were what ruined it imo. They were incapable of having any passion for the engineering because they didn't understand it. They were just there to invent buzzwords and optimize monetization and all that junk and we got Web 2.0 and algorithmic feeds and it's all been downhill since.
Replying on my own comment - I just want to add that if one truly avoids smartphones and social media... if one sticks to things like IRC, basic email and snail mail... if one avoids laptops and sticks with large, immobile desktop computers... very little value is lost, and so much of the old magic is still right there at your fingertips!

The cool of the culture died with smartphones and social media for me, but my love for the magic of software and hardware has not waned.

It's an age thing - the dreams you had when you were younger didn't turn into reality - dreams usually don't. Or at least, not as you expect it.

Tech is still really cool, compared to decades ago. But we have so much of it and it is everywhere, that we re-calibrate and think that all this amazing, cool tech is boring. You can get a 3D printer for a few hundred bucks, build it yourself, build a better 3d printer, get some awesome tech for a hundred bucks or so, and then build a really cool robot. It's the tinkerer's dream right now. But because it is everywhere, we think it is boring.

It isn't! I'm Gen X and, if you let yourself, you can get re-engaged. We're the ultimate generation of apathy, so if I can do it, you can do it ;) Make sure some lifestyle choice isn't messing with your curiosity and excitement, though. Bad sleep, missing exercise, doom scrolling, too much booze or other recreational drugs, all that can suck the joy out of life and tech.

In the early 2000s, right after the Dot Com Bubble burst, I had a tech friend tell me, "I think all the great stuff has been invented, it's all boring now." That was in the web 1.0 days, before the web as we know it now existed. Before rockets that land on their end, before smartphones, before Deep Learning, before all this amazing stuff that exists now.

Oh, and you've just gone through a couple of churns of software ecosystem, it can seem same-y, but it is actually great in the long run. New situations mean old ideas that were discarded can become valuable, which can be odd. The complexity sucks, but ... shrug.

To your point about 3D printing and robots, we haven’t really moved the needle that much. We’ve made it easy for anyone to print a “cool” robot, sure, but it isn’t necessarily a _useful_ one.

As a former “maker” and electronics hack I think lot of maker stuff has devolved into “cool” stuff that consists of wire hangers and servos with RGB lighting and very little actual value. But coolness doesn’t really mean much when everything is hyped as such.

Being a maker isn’t about creating “things of value” or being “useful”.

That same mindset is ruining many a good hobby. Astrophotography is going down a shameful route where the only thing your peers want to see is the misery of all the debt you have to out fancy someone else.

as for 3d printers.. they have come a long way and have become a core part of creativity and engineering for programs like First Robotics.. hardware is improving, safety is improving, reliability is improving - so much so that if you give up on the creative aspect you can just print away and get started with little effort.

For some reason I feel the need to weigh in here. I love photography and astronomy but I see no point in mixing the two. We just spent $10 billion to send a fabulous camera and lens into the L2 Lagrange point. Not to mention the over 30 year old Hubble which no amateur has any hope of matching despite decades of advancements in amateur tech (and to be fair to the amateurs, they can do remarkably better than their peers of 30 years ago). But I already spent my money (in tax dollar form) on the best scientists in the world to go and take pretty pictures which also sometimes provide great scientific input.

If people enjoy astrophotography then that's fine, but the most magical part of Astronomy to me is seeing Saturn (easily the visual crown jewel of our solar system) through the telescope with my own eyes and realizing that it really is hanging out there in the sky for all to see.

Citizen scientists do make discoveries - we often discover NEO's, comets and supernova to assist scientists who have limited capacity - I've seen some great work here and lots of technology + telescope convergence of being able to scan thousands of plate solves a night using GPU to find near earth objects. This part of citizen science is doing well...

but astrophotography, it used to be able the wonder of capturing it - regardless if you prefer visual with your eye or assisted seeing with a camera. There used to be a aura of DIY - find a camera, adapt it, take some photos, share them, have people say good job.

Now its really about memes, trolling and who can get the most Instagram's.. and that's kind of depressing.

The people doing citizen science are way outnumbered by the vocal ones comparing their debt, their investment and their preference of equipment as a superiority complex and social media feeds into that and supports it with the algo favoring the controversy and the fights

It was a bitter sweet day to sell off my remote observatory and get my nights back...

but the passion for the heavens is still there

however, that "eyepiece vs a camera" thing is very much part of the problem with the hobby... it just shouldn't matter.

I think this would be helped a lot if the maker community immersed itself more in industrial engineering.

Like you mentioned, its hard to go from "hah, I can make a cool thing" to "Let me make this super useful mechatronic contraption" but this is the bread and butter of industry.

You see production lines and they're just a long string of such contraptions working in unison.

Makers nowadays have amazing resources that were previously reserved only for industry so heck yeah, maybe go make a fish fillet machine or something just for kicks but also maybe a brand new small business

Huh? I don't follow. 3D Printing and robot are moving far faster than ever before. Sure, you aren't going from "no 3d printing" to "3d printing", but that's like complaining about food today because it isn't like when you were a kid and got McDonalds once a month and how awesome that was!
Part of it has, but then there are those guys working on 3d printing houses.
It's definitely an age thing. Don't get me wrong, I know OP feeling all too well. But, it's like complaining about how the music I grew with was the best music. It's more likely the curiosity in you die, rather than the world running out of stuff to be curious about.
I don't think so.

There are waves throughout history where, at times, it's the Wild West and the opportunities and possibilities abound. One such time was when the Internet had become a global backbone, hardware prices were racing to the bottom, we were seeing new display (LCD) technology, battery tech....

But then Corporations happened.

Ads moved in to dominate the web, dollar-chasing sites (also often corporate) drowned everything else out. Search engines too started directing you there — toward the mainstream, dollared sites. As other posters have noted, the devices themselves locked down. Hobbyists go pro?

It's difficult to imagine something like the BBS culture taking off now. But I do believe these things are cyclical, so I am still going along for the ride, hoping to find the fun niches (Raspberry Pi perhaps?).

BBS' -> tildes, Gopher rebirth and Gemini.
Part of it is also just the field maturing. For a solid generation or two car tinkering was accessible and widespread. American culture still has a lot of influence from this but as cars matured and became more powerful and reliable, the need to do it and the threshold to get anything out of it changed. I think the latest new "niche" in that domain is the import tuning scene, decades old at this point.

Some tinkerers do it because they just enjoy the tinkering but for most I think it's a combination of enjoying it some while also getting some tangible benefits out of it. When any device you could easily DIY is available off the shelf, the cost-benefit changes. You have hard DIY left, but not easy tinkering for moderate gains.

I don't think it's an age thing, there were plenty of old people dreaming along with us.
Are you sure? I'd like to hear the take of someone in their early twenties on this. My feeling is that a lot of them are terrified by it themselves too.
Terrified of it? If it is terrifying, it is hardly boring, it would seem!
I'm 22. I feel like there hasn't been any major technologcal shift since ~2014. Phones have gotten faster and more capable, but are still mostly the same. Social media has gotten bigger, but hasn't innovated in a meaningful way. "AI" has gotten better which is fascinating, but in the end it will most likely just be used for manipulation, surveillance and manipulation. I can't really think of any technology to look forward to, that would improve my life or change the world (in a positive sense).
Autonomous cars, AI/ML, and fusion are three things that will significantly change our world in the next decade or so. There will absolutely be downsides, but that's how tech works! And this doesn't even get into biological spheres of tech!

Also, remember, people in 2005 had same thoughts as you're having right now! Throughout my entire life, people have been saying that tech and science is basically done. They've always been wrong, and I don't see an end in sight.

It's the nature of exponentials. They seem slow and then suddenly the world changes. Only a handful of people actually can see that it is going to happen. We're just linear creatures with no intuition for exponential growth.

Imagine sitting in a dark room and someone about to turn on a switch - up until the switch is flicked, it doesn't seem like anything is going to happen, and then suddenly you are reeling at the brightness. That's how tech innovation happens now. I bet in a decade you'll be looking back saying, holy shit, I did not see that coming about something! "Remember when we used to drive gas vehicles?" or "Remember when we thought fusion was impossible?" or "Remember when nobody owned a robot?" Who knows what it is, but there will be something!

In 2014, almost nobody thought about having an app on their phone to summon a car to take them somewhere. Now it is everywhere (and struggling!). In 2014, speech recognition was awful. Now we have an automated robot lady that will answer spam calls for you!

Autonomous cars and fusion are very different creatures than the growth of the internet or computers in general. The latter was widely distributed and had low hanging fruit that just about everyone in society could pluck and have fun with, the former is something a handful of companies and a few hundred researchers will get to develop while the rest of us will have to have our creativity satisfied with the fulfilling act of paying for it. (Even ML to an extent, since it's so data and compute expensive - generally far from a low hanging fruit -, though less so.)
The internet took decades to evolve and was heavily funded early on by government. It only became low hanging fruit once it achieved a high level of maturity -- largely until the WWW had a graphical browser.
Private space travel is exploding. In 2016 Spacex had captured 30% of the launch market. They've doubled that figure since. The space shuttle cost $50K per kilo of payload. The Falcon 9 brought that down to $3k. They're hoping starship can bring that down to $10! Imagine buying a burger for $5 and sending it to space for another $5. This is already bearing fruit of cheap, global satellite internet access.
99% of smartphone innovation over the past decade has gone into the camera so "influencers" can post better pictures.
mRNA vaccines for novel disease being developed in days doesn’t do it for you?
I'm 24, I still feel that tech is very 'cool' and exciting. Yes, there's a lot of stuff that sucks, social media is probably doing more harm than good and the direction that AI research is going in with increasingly larger models that can't reasonably be replicated.

But on the other hand, space accessibility is quickly opening up, it's very likely that I would be able to take a trip to space in my lifetime too, maybe even Mars. VR has opened up an amazing new frontier for hanging out with friends on the other side of the world. Medicine is opening up all sorts of scifi technologies, gene therapy with CRISPR, massive strides in protein structure prediction, mRNA vaccines. Synchrotrons and particle accelerators are starting to improve all sorts of observations. Fusion energy is making progress, quantum computing is just getting started. We even took a detailed image of a black hole millions of light years away just a few years ago!

Yes, specifically computer related improvements are starting to slow down a little, but with costs only getting lower, there's so much room to bring computers into, so many things that can be automated! AI research has generally stuck to certain niches (basic medicine, basic physics, vision), there's so much that can have breakthroughs at the level of the protein folding model.

I think with diverse enough interests, it's hard to say that things are slowing down, they're only getting faster as computers, software and AI mature and dramatically increase efficiency in other fields.

I agree that it's partly an age thing, but I also agree that the times have been more exciting in the past technology-wise.

I grew up as a eighties tech geek kid. I learned BASIC on a SHARP programmable calculator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_PC-1403), then moved on to an Atari 800, then to an Amiga, and finally to a PC. Each of these machines was orders of magnitude more capable than the previous one - you don't have that anymore nowadays. Then in the late 90s there was the Internet, with the promise that you could connect to anyone around the world and the potential to really bring the world together. Well, that didn't quite turn out the way 20 year old me imagined unfortunately. Of course, technological progress is still going on, but it's more "your smartphone can now do what your desktop PC did 20 years ago, or your laptop did 10 years ago". SpaceX rockets look practically indistinguishable from rockets that flew 50-70 years ago. Ok, those couldn't land again, but technological progress has been more of a crawl there (with an unnecessary detour into a dead end called "Space Shuttle"). Same with self-driving cars and other potentially exciting stuff.

> Each of these machines was orders of magnitude more capable than the previous one - you don't have that anymore nowadays.

As you mention, computers can become "orders of magnitude more capable" simply by shrinking to a smaller form factor. We're about to have smartphones that are fully usable as computers, or smart watches that you can run free OS's and homebrew applications on.

> Then in the late 90s there was the Internet, with the promise that you could connect to anyone around the world and the potential to really bring the world together.

There's still plenty of projects trying to do that kind of thing. Big Tech social media is only the most popular part of the Internet, you're mostly free to ignore it if you like.

> Ok, those couldn't land again, but technological progress has been more of a crawl there (with an unnecessary detour into a dead end called "Space Shuttle").

The Space Shuttle was not a dead end, it had all sorts of cool capabilities that we're only now getting back with the SpaceX Starship. And rockets that land again are a big deal because they radically change the equation of how much it costs to launch things into space.

All sorts of cool things that we’re now getting back to with Starship 40 years later… sounds like the very definition of a dead end to me! No one took Shuttle and iterated on it. It had a bunch of impractical ideas combined for primarily political reasons that resulted in actual shuttle flights being incredibly dangerous.

It delivered lots of pork, but at the cost of actual progress.

> As you mention, computers can become "orders of magnitude more capable" simply by shrinking to a smaller form factors. We're about to have smartphones that are fully usable as computers, or smart watches that you can run free OS's and homebrew applications on.

He talks about functionality. Not power. Yes, computers are more powerful now. But the point is that old computers were way more flexible and "powerful" in an usability sense. New computers are full of arbitrary (and natural (1)) barriers to stop you from having full control of your pocket CPU.

(1) The natural additional barrier is also complexity. Early computers were simple. Some hobbyist could write a system from scratch just by having some knowledge about computers and electronics. Now you have a lot more factors, an OS, a plethora of drivers and a browser that's closer to a VM than a HTML parser.

> There's still plenty of projects trying to do that kind of thing. Big Tech social media is only the most popular part of the Internet, you're mostly free to ignore it if you like.

You are right. But that kind of connection is disappointing to our 20 year old geek self. We (naively) wanted more people to become computer literates. Instead, we got algorithms and fake news.

> We (naively) wanted more people to become computer literates. Instead, we got algorithms and fake news.

Arguably, we got both. Even basic computer literacy is a huge value added right now. Journalists are telling coal miners to "learn to code" if they want a job, and being told to "learn to code" in return. Tim Apple is expressly saying that every kid should learn to code. This is astounding from a 1980s and 1990s perspective.

> technological progress is still going on, but it's more "your smartphone can now do what your desktop PC did 20 years ago, or your laptop did 10 years ago"

In terms of tech that would excite a geeky kid, I think it's more like "you can now buy a $1 microcontroller that's as powerful as desktop PC from 30 years ago". Which is pretty exciting as it means you can throw computing power at all sorts of real world automated which wasn't feasible for a hobbyist before.

TL;DR The modern equivalent of a programmable calculator is an Arduino or a Raspberry Pi not a smartphone.

What microcontroller are you thinking of?
Quite a few of the following options would give a 386SX from 1992 a run for its money in terms of raw computing power:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/embedded-microcon...

To compete with a high end 486 desktop from 1992 you might have to pay a bit more than $1, particularly if you want floating point.

Not to mention the lack of memory on microcontrollers.
ESP8266/32 is slightly over a $1 but still within the spirit of “more like $1 micro”.

Confining more strictly to $1.00, STM32F030F4P6 (48MHz 32-bit M0) is in spitting distance to a 386 or 20MHz 68030 for some workloads. (50 MHz 486-DX2 was introduced in ‘92, but the typical desktop PC of 1992 was much lower spec.)

MSP430 g series are under a dollar depending on what package you get. The DIP package is a little more expensive than the Smaller TSSOP but they are incredibly powerful.
A typical desktop PC from 30 years ago had at least 2MiB RAM. There's no cheap microcontroller with this.
I guess not, but you can get a Raspberry Pi Zero with 512MiB for £10. That's not $1, but it's definitely still "within relatively easy financial reach of a kid" territory
Are you crazy? I'm from '79, so probably a bit younger than you.

We can now buy an Arduino board for the price of a computer game, and make a flying drone. Even with a small camera or some sensors if you want. Or create some small robots with all the motors and sensors that you want, custom 3d printed.

My son is now 13 and doing STEM. I only wish I had access to all the things that they can now do for cheap, especially all the robotics and drone stuff. Plus, the amount of info on the internet is amazing and quickly accessible anywhere.

I agree that the old days were a lot of fun, but if I had to choose, I would want to be 13 nowadays instead of the 80s or 90s.

Well yes, but flying drones are not exciting when everybody can build/buy one.
What's interesting is not having a drone, but what you do with them. It's like saying photography is not exciting when everyone has a camera.
It kind of isn't. though.
That's so subjective. My photography is interesting to me, and draws admiration and interest from almost everyone I share it with, even though they themselves have phones with cameras.
You shouldn't derive whether or not something is exciting to yourself by its exclusivity. I can't even begin to state how wrong that feels.
So you're not interested in tech but in tech no one else has.
The novelty factor IS important. Back in the 90s/00s techies were relatively rare. Being tech-oriented, generally smart but also socially awkward and introverted is an interesting mix - you derive identity and pride from the things that make you special.

Was this the reason I loved tech? No, that's the reason I DID tech. The reason I loved tech is because I believed that tech will make our lives exponentially better. And up to a certain point, it did...

Then you were not really interested in Tech. Just in being in some pseudo exclusive club. I definitely think building your own drone is very exciting.
Ask the military planners of the world how exciting drones are. That one little device being dismissed so casually has changed warfare, for all time.
Those people were probably just as excited when NSO's Pegasus became commercially available. For the rest of us, that wouldn't be the case.
what a ridiculous statement. it also shows why the whole premise for this post is so misguided.
Drones have so many applications! I know a guy who builds drones to map out farmer lands. So many applications, so little time.
Just want to chime in and say there's nothing wrong with finding excitement in doing something unique. That drive inside of you has taken people very far I'd imagine, with the obvious tradeoffs.

Don't give up on tech and keep an open mind. It's true that flying drones are not exciting to you, but flying a drone could be a first step in finding something more interesting to do with drones.

Boredom is functional. It can be a guide towards more interesting things so as long as you don't let it run the show. Tolerate it and follow (intelligently) where it takes you, don't avoid it.

I don't know how helpful this will be to you, but it bothered me to see people dismiss your interest because you value doing something unique. Those same judgements held me back for years.

> We can now buy an Arduino board for the price of a computer game, and make a flying drone.

I'm pretty sure you could do this 20 years ago, there just hadn't been that wave of marketing around microcontrollers as a hobby that happened around the time of Make magazine. $2 for a PIC and $45 for a programmer, maybe? Waiting excitedly for the next issue of Nuts & Volts? Idly flipping through the Jameco and Small Parts catalogs? Toolboxes filled with TTL?

The internet is certainly an advantage, but it also ain't too new.

edit: randomly posting the Small Parts catalog so we can reflect on and celebrate what was lost https://web.archive.org/web/20160323004150/http://www.smallp...

NO MINIMUM ORDER

Also, a shout out to American Science & Surplus, off to the suburbs after 84 years.

https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/10/13/american-science-sur...

No? Not even remotely. Even besides buying the parts (which were more expensive and, literally, exponentially less capable), the knowhow and training needed wasn't something you could find on the Internet. Drones didn't exist then, that was a fantasy in 2002. The Internet of 2002 was far, far different from what we have now.
True, the choices were more limited, but there is still a trend in that direction again. If you associate tech is with Apple devices for example, you are probably not one dabbling in tech, you are the passive passenger. Doesn't have to be the case, but there is a hype is more about consumer solutions instead of tech itself.
AS&S is, in a relatively literal sense, next door to me. Fun bunch of folks whenever I stop by.

But as a late 70s Gen Xer, I would never trade living through that transition period from pre-Internet to Internet. You can't pay to have had that experience or perspective, and what transpired through those years from BBSes to pre-Web to Web adoption, from technological and sociological standpoints, was _insane_.

Drones only became technically feasible on the shoulders of the mems development for cellphones, so, no. The Lego-if-I-cation of digital hardware is a relatively recent thing.

(Yeah, there was radio shack and Heathkit, but the barriers to entry are MUCH smaller today)

> The Lego-if-I-cation of digital hardware is a relatively recent thing.

That happened in the 80s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms

I was unclear, you’re not wrong, but I meant getting a $5 cpu and a $6 WiFi module and a $5 humidity sensor and a $2 power controller and a $10 lipo battery. The components are like Legos.
Those bricks used to be a discrete components, maybe an op-amp, or a 7400 series chip from TI with maybe two or four logic gates, and they were sold in individual units on peg-board racks at your local Radio Shack.

Sure, we didn't have "drones" in the 80s, since the battery tech and digital integration wasn't there yet to make it feasible. There were radio controlled cars with digital PCM signals, servos for steering, and heavy 6 or 7 cell NiCd battery packs. There were also radio controlled aircraft, but they were generally using an internal-combustion engine, unless they were gliders. These ranged from toy to rather extravagant hobby depending on the size and capability. My neighbor would fly his glider, which had a roughly 2-3 foot wingspan, for what seemed like hours on thermals on a slope behind our houses.

Edit to add: I don't remember the details, but I believe that he told us the radio control was the most expensive part and not much different from what people used in the fancier car kits. The rest was cheap and easily replaced, which was necessary to be light but also to be able to repair after inevitable crashes. Think of a vacuum-formed plastic skin filled with expanded foam, a bit like the structure of a surfboard but with much lower strength.

> I'm pretty sure you could do this 20 years ago

As a kid I sometimes went to a RC airfield here close by. Those things were crazy expensive. And then we're not even talking about model helicopters yet. Those things were not on batteries but on gasoline. As a kid I dreamed of having one, but those were just too expensive to give as a toy to a kid. Nowadays? Buy a drone 'helicopter' for $20. It's really crazy if you compare this to the 90's.

Drones that self hover were not even remotely possible. Or at least not as far as I know, unless you know more than me. And drones with camera's? No way!

> The internet is certainly an advantage, but it also ain't too new.

I remember when as a kid I got stuck programming. No internet, no StackOverflow... Good luck! In a sense it was cool to find solutions yourself, but it definitely wasn't quick! :)

No, you definitely could not do it 20 years ago with hobbyist grade parts. The software basically did not exist and whatever tech there was was strictly hidden behind government arms control restrictions (ITAR) because of fears that the tech could be used in ballistic missiles.
I don’t know about your experience, but I grew up during the same time period. Tech was decidedly uncool, at least among my classmates. I don’t think tech became cool until the early 2000s when smartphones took off (specifically the combination of smarthphones and social media/communication). Now these things are so common place that I think they have ceased to be cool. It’s like considering a rotary or push button phone to be cool in the 1980s.
I agree with this. I’m a somewhere between generation X and millennial, and for some reason tech was uncool in the eyes of my peers. Suddenly many of them are talking about decentralized this, UX that, and the whole space is slowly losing it’s “coolness” to me.

I’ll admit I enjoyed the exclusivity that my interests evolved into, but I definitely wish I had more people around me to share my interest in technology when I was younger.

In a way I think I grew into this expectation of exclusivity, as that was the only way my adolescent self could tell myself it was a cool hobby.

Age might play a factor in this equation, as others are saying. I say this because I have found enjoyment in simplicity more than complexity these days, and I’m told that’s something that happens with age. Writing a website that runs purely on html+ css, text based communication (as in not slack or discord), and things that I can work on for a few days and complete. I’ve taken a recent interest in sailing. My former self wanted to take on massive undertakings of complexity that required months or years of planning and doing to accomplish. To go on a bit of a tangent, I remember having an idea years ago to find a way to build a computer into a boat which would take real-time measurements of the water and weather conditions. These days I’m interested in reading my surroundings to understand the environment.

I might be wrong but it sounds like what excited you was seeing the progress of the tools, not necessarily what YOU can do with the tools. If that's the case then yeah, it's probably getting harder to put your hands on tools that are orders of magnitude greater than what you just had. I'm learning guitar, all the tools I can get are all very exciting because I haven't seen them before, and I could acquire them a lot faster than I can improve my abilities. But if I don't put in the time to advance myself along with the tools they will quickly become "boring", but only because I'm not able to use them effectively.
Tech was nerdy in the 1990s.

By the 2010's there is a totally different culture. Call it 'All Birds' culture.

1990's there were a lot of weird folks, hippies etc.

2010's 'All Birds' is more commercial, fashionable, a totally different kind of culture.

1990's tech was about tech, it's upstack now, so more like tech applied to classical business problems.

AirBnB isn't really a tech company, it happens to be because other, more established companies were not able to integrate tech quickly enough to develop those kinds of markets, where you want to have strong tech / IT instead of relegating them to the back office.

Even Facebook, it's a social media company really. Which is different than Oracle, Sun, Microsoft.

There are more "nerdy", non-boring tech people, but you are correct, you won't find them at AirBnB, Facebook, or Amazon. So don't go there if you want to find it. There's a place in my town that uses drones to inspect Air Turbines - I can guarantee there are more interesting people there. Go into small, crazy businesses that exist to do cool tech. "Cool" people, in my experience, are pretty dull, at least for the societal definition of cool. Find the nerds and geeks, they are still out there, but they still aren't the cool, in group. They are weird and thorny and sometimes smell a little. But they have really fun ideas!
My fear is that the 'All Birds Nerds' exclude 'Nerd Nerds'.

'nerd nerds' don't know what they are doing in terms of presentation or communication.

If 'nerd nerds' are 'hip' it's completely by accident.

I also think 'nerd nerds' just say whatever, meaning that occasionally they will say something un-PC, or lacking in empathy and be 'pushed out' for that reason.

There was a time (and some people are still like this) where utterances didn't imply an ideological alignment, it's just something that's said.

In 'All Birds Culture' everyone is careful how they communicate.

I'm sure there are some nerd nerds at AirBnB and frankly not everyone in All Birds Nerd culture is the prototype either but the 'mainstay' at AirBnB would be All Birds Nerds.

Someone who wears a 'Metal' T-shirt, completely un-ironically, because they like Metal, and wore it 5 times without washing it, because they forgot, and have disgusting greasy sideburns just 'because they like it' ... and an article of clothing made out of snakeskin ... that's probably a nerd nerd.

I suspect, with no evidence, that the distinction you are making here can be described as neurotypical nerds (what you call All Birds nerds) versus neurodivergent nerds (autistic, adhd, whatever you want to bucket them under)

Neurodivergent people tend to have a bit less of a social filter, they are more direct and honest, often to the point of bluntness (leading to the 'just say whatever' behavior you mentioned)

They also tend to be pretty unfiltered when it comes to their passions, and hyperfixate on them to the detriment of other areas of their life, like laundry.

And yes, these people are often excluded basically anywhere they go, and they have to mask their behaviours to appear more normal to get jobs. In that respect, the All Birds culture has absolutely pushed them aside, or pushed them under.

This is just my 2 cents, attempting to put some definitions around the All Birds and Nerd Nerds groups you described. I could be entirely mistaken.

I think you’ve done a good job of summarizing the landscape – it matches my experience.

The progression seems to be the decline of the nerd-nerd monoculture in the professional tech environment. With some irony, the increase in diversity is from the non-neurodiverse. Product managers, engineering managers, vertically integrated teams.

I believe on the most part this creates healthier productivity for the business – but likely at the social expense of the neurodiverse. Their technical skills can be more readily exploited by the hustlers.

I think part of the problem is that we haven't moved from the "nerd nerd monoculture" to more diverse cultures. What has happened instead is that we've adopted an MBA, Agile-driven monoculture instead. That culture is honestly pretty hostile to neurodiverse people by forcing them into marching orders and restricting their freedom to be themselves.

At least that's my experience.

Neurodiversity is probably aligned with that but I suspect a lot of people are just not self aware, never learned to communicate in a political environment.

A neurodiverse, even introverted kid who went to private school then Ivy League, and had 'a lot of money / no fears' growing up ... probably will have been socialized in the political sense.

Grow up in a small town or the burbs, people are 'judgy' about some stuff, but not anything complicated or nuanced.

I'm not in any camp, but really not until I was 30 did I notice how much stock people put into small signals. Like 'likes fishing' or 'football' etc..

Especially in such a competitive environment, people are I think looking for flaws.

Torvalds, James Gosling, Wozniack, Sergei Brin - those are nerd-nerds.

(I once saw Sergei Brin walking down the street in what looked like a back brace and mime outfit. Serious. WTF? Middle of the day.

Sundar is All Birds Nerd, but he's a business guy anyhow.

I feel a lot of YC culture errs on the side of All Birds Nerds.

> Torvalds, James Gosling, Wozniack, Sergei Brin - those are nerd-nerds.

Remember that college educations, especially highly skilled STEM ones, were very rare for their parents' generation (born in the 30s - 50s)

Torvalds - Father was a politician, grandfather a famous statistician

Wozniak - Father was an engineer for Lockheed

Brin - Father a math professor, mother a NASA researcher

Gosling was the only one in this bunch who really just came out of nowhere. I agree with what you're saying about Nerd Nerds and All Birds Nerds but the founders of Silicon Valley were always well-heeled. I think the culture changed for rank-and-file engineers mostly because of the money in the field. While founders would certainly make it big (Moore, Gates, etc) the average engineer was payed well but not fantastically.

One could feasibly work in other white-collar fields (law, accounting, airline pilot, etc) to make similar money and those who were interested in the largest pay packages and large amounts of prestige went into fields like finance or medicine. Folks who went into tech typically chose tech because they liked the problems that you could solve in tech or liked the people who chose to go into tech (often somewhat neurodiverse). Nowadays tech salaries are insane and most people who enter tech are doing it for money and prestige foremost. These folks are going to be the All Birds Nerds; smart folks who are more interested in making money and rising the ranks rather than playing around with tech.

For sure, there is boatloads of cool tech out there and the barrier to entry is lower than ever. Btw, I think an overlooked part of the OP was:

> Nowadays I'm a software dev and tech entrepreneur.

Doing anything as a job is an excellent way to kill your enjoyment of it as a hobby. Subconsciously, you start looking at projects in a business light ("can I turn this into a side gig", "will this advance my career", etc) and that kills off a lot of the excitement that comes with doing things just because you want to.

Oh for sure. I tell my nieces and nephews and now my son that the best way to kill something you love is to get a job doing it.
I personally disagree. I'm a software dev and software is still exciting to me.

What kills enjoyment it's not proffesionalism but efficiency. You stop exploring new things and start doing things the fastest and least effort consuming way. You stop wondering what new cool things a technology could offer and start thinking what's the shortest path to a functional product.

Being playful is the opposite of that. Being playful is about going out of your way to explore a new thing, setting your curiosity high and your expectations low, and coming back with a new experience. Let it be a spark of excitement or a total bummer because that new thing turned out being crap.

But don't expect that to happen in your job. Any company will always optimize for profits over cool tech. Even if you only have 1 hour a day to spend in a tech hobby, that hour will be more exciting then the previous 9.

Another problem is that, when you have a solid knowledge about the foundations, there's a tendency to disregard abstractions or quality of life advances. If for every new language you say "It's slow and heavy compared to C and its advantages are crap" well, you are killing your excitement yourself.

There's also the fact that much modern tech tends to be very locked-down, discourages tinkering/creativity, and is built to push ads/subscriptions/in-app-purchases.

But there's rarely a 'wow' factor to new tech any more. Everything is incremental improvement and the era of huge leaps forward is well behind us. The step up from a C64 to an Amiga, or a SNES to a Playstation, or an early iPhone from a feature phone, or Win3.1 to Win9x - those were serious upgrades.

But going from a PS5 Pro to PS5, an iPhone 8 to an iPhone 13, 1080p to 4K, an i7 to a 5-generations-newer i7, or a GTX1080 to an RTX3080 - they're nice incremental steps, but not revolutionary leaps forwards.

> There's also the fact that much modern tech tends to be very locked-down, discourages tinkering/creativity

But that also creates an inherent opportunity for open, 'hackable' versions of the broken, locked down crap. You can see this in much of the embedded ecosystem, where much stuff is unusably locked down simply out of short-term laziness and convenience but many of the most popular products are open.

> But there's rarely a 'wow' factor to new tech any more.

John Deere started commercially selling a self-driving tractor this year. That's a pretty big wow. Something straight out of the sci-fi books.

I think it doesn't pop because the internet has been streaming the development of such tech for the last decade or more. It seems incremental because we have had insights into the development process, which is something the masses didn't have access to when Windows 3.1 or the C64 landed.

Gone are the days of decades of behind the scenes R&D suddenly landing in our laps to amaze us. We now watch the R&D unfold in realtime.

self driving tractors have been around for years already. The guy operating usually just chills there listening to the radio and occasionally engages to help with precise turns or whatnot.
Yes, but the new sensor pack to remove the rider is a huge upgrade. Like going from flipping toggle switches to Windows 95 kind of an upgrade. The previous commenter was amazed by the transition from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95.

But, again, it's boring because we watched the development of those sensors as it was happening. In the past the masses would have been unaware of the development going on. But nowadays we know what's coming and it seems old hat by the time it hits the market.

You are contradicting yourself. A self-driving tractor that requires an operator is not fully self-driving.
funny that you mention John Deere, the company who is/was facing farmer revolts because they removed the right to repair and locked down the ecus.
Get into VR and the game modding world there. My son is having tons of fun in that world, and it is progressing the same as original Playstation 1 era consoles and PCs, imo.
I personally found the improvements between the original iPhone and iPhone 6/6s or especially the X much (of course it took 10 years so I’m stretching it a bit..) much more impressive than the step up from an Symbian/Windows smartphone to the original one. It was basically a feature phone with a nice screen and great UX. Stuff like 3G and third party apps were a result of an incremental updates.
> Tech is still really cool, compared to decades ago

I think a huge factor I haven't seen mentioned is continuous delivery. How often were new operating systems released? How often were new products announced? When you bought software, the devs would be hard at work working on the next version with the incentive to make it good enough that people would buy again.

Now software is continually released. "Major" updates are expected every year, and they're often free and people are expected to upgrade. Subscription models have rolled out, so while directly interacting with your customer probably leads to a better product, there's less incentive to re-invent the wheel - you don't need to upsell all your previous clients.

I would assume that all of this is leading to better products, but all of the baby steps make it all seem so lacklustre.

For example, compare the iPhone 13 Pro's camera to, say, the iPhone 8's camera. Had Apple waited 5 years to release the upgrade, the new camera would have blown. peoples. freaking. minds. However, since it's been getting slightly better each year, we instead have people complaining about how the only difference is a slightly better camera.

I am skeptical that, particularly in software, rolling releases are a net improvement. If users are locked into subscription services or monetized via data collection, version N+1 no longer needs to be better than version N for the company to keep making money. (In fact, it can be worse, if users are sufficiently locked in via network services or app/plugin ecosystems.)
I think you're right. A decade ago the hype behind the self-driving car made it sound pretty cool. The closer we get to having them, the more boring the idea seems. Each new model with improved driver assistance is just a small improvement over the previous model. When a true fully autonomous model lands, it too will just be a small improvement over the previous year's model, which will be almost fully autonomous. The day you can go down to the dealer's lot and buy a self-driving car for the first time will be a fairly uneventful day.

Like you say, in the days of yore the product cycles were long. It was many years between updates. The innovation that took place over that long period was significant, so it was much more wowing when all that behind the scenes work appeared in view.

>It's an age thing - the dreams you had when you were younger didn't turn into reality - dreams usually don't. Or at least, not as you expect it.

Every generation is doomed to discover that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUgs2O7Okqc

I disagree that it's just an age thing. At least Software is moving steadfastly to a dystopia. This wasn't yet apparent 15-20 years ago. Watching Software is just depressing where it's clear it casts quite a large shadow over Humanity.
Dystopia how? Social networks and their ilk are something that we are struggling with and has impacted society, definitely, but it isn't dystopian (not that it won't go that way). But "software" in general? I don't see any indicators - what do you mean by that statement? Have any examples?
I have a few examples. The loss of ownership over Software. The blatant privacy violations. Free Software + ads combination. The consolidation of vital pieces Software into a very small set(sometimes singleton) of companies. The loss of user agency in Software. Literal killer autonomous robots.
Part of what you describe is monopoly. That's not new. That's what capitalism tends toward.

The other parts you describe are all about connectedness. Or side effects of connectedness. Largely due to the Internet and partially to cell then smart phones. Those are new tech that humans haven't quite made peace with yet.

That happens with all tech changes, belive it or not. Over a century ago electrification was jarring. All sorts of magical devices [1] used electricity. And electricity was dangerous! [2] There was also the less obvious danger of con artists, who with sufficiently technological-seeming devices are indistinguishable from magicians (apologies to Clarke!). And the whole thing was such confusing upheaval to society that Rube Goldberg [3] helped people cope by laughing about it.

[1] https://www.announcingit.com/invitations-blog/what-came-firs...

[2] https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questio...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg

None of my points are about connectedness. Not sure which points you are talking about. Only thing you might link to connectedness is loss of privacy. But you can leave privacy perfectly intact with full connectedness.

I also disagree with your point that such thing happens with all tech. Electricity didn't take away the agency of humanity. Electricity doesn't go out and kill a person based on what electricity judges to be worthy. Such answers are a copout.

I had a thought the other day. Our house didn't have a fridge, so we had to buy one when we moved in. We plugged it in one day about 7 years ago and haven't touched it since. So here's a machine that has been keeping our foodstuffs cold with 100% uptime for 7 years, and we just don't even think about it.

I'm also old enough to remember when cell phones became a thing, and then when smart phones became the thing after that. The fact that the thing in my pocket could simultaneously emulate several copies of the computer I had as a kid, while running on a battery? And I can talk to people and access the internet from anywhere? This is amazing stuff, and again we just don't even think about it anymore. Like, I fiddled around programming with my TI-84 and TI-92, but that's nothing compared to the capabilities of this smartphone.

And, speaking of which, don't even get me started on the internet. The fact is that I don't even remember what it's like to not have a thing in my pocket that can answer pretty much any question I have, whenever and wherever I have it.

I'm still mad that we don't have flying cars ala "The Jetsons". But then again, I think "auto" accidents would become horrifically worse if we did, so there's that.

I watched news reports of the moon landing in 1969 as a kid. I played with tech throughout my youth ... converting a small, unused closet next to our garage as an electronics lab. I started with breadboarding (and occasionally, wirewrapping) 555 oscillators, and 741 op amps into weird circuits I'd read about.

About 50+ years later, I still build my own machines, albeit at the subsystem level versus the power supply and chip level. I am looking forward to working on automating image capture/processing for a telescope I bought last year.

I don't have a flying car (thank a deity), but I have an 8 inch telescope with automatic location and calibration. And a helluva lotta processing power, storage, and networking to do things with the images. I'm not saying I will run a 10/40 GbE optical fibre out to the deck where the telescope will sit ... but I'm not saying I won't. And yes, its nice to have 40GbE networking in my house (basement).

I've always viewed tech as a means to an end. I'm a scientist by training, a technologist and software person by choice. I've been an entrepreneur and many other things in my life. I see the tech as a way to do science more quickly, more accurately, and I really enjoy that it is an enabling function.

I got my start in HPC and supercomputing precisely because my simulations were taking too long on the workstations of the late 80s and early 90s. I stayed in HPC to build better/faster/stronger supers, and take advantage of the technological waves. Simulations that used to take a powerful (for the early 90s) supercomputer several hours, now take about a minute, on my laptop. Which has more processors, memory, and storage than the old super.

I think of technology as a wavefront that enables one to do more, better, and faster in its wake. Some people love the building of the tech, and designing new tech. Some like the applications. If you are bored with the building of tech, think of the applications that you could try, to help improve something real.

It's an age thing - the dreams you had when you were younger didn't turn into reality

This is a tangent, but I've heard that children who grew up in the "space age" after Apollo thought we would be on Mars right now, or colonizing the solar system. It was their childhood dream.

Hence a lot of men (especially rich men) in that era are interested in flying planes and going to space. Bezos was born in 1964 and Musk was born in 1971.

On the other hand my first memory of the space program was literally the Challenger disaster ... that's when the myths started dying down, and when America stopped going to space very much. I never really had that dream, and it feels like many/most people my age and younger don't.

This is so true, at least from my late 70's perspective. Star Wars didn't seem so much like fantasy when I saw it in the theater - it was more like the inevitable conclusion of where tech was going, and probably in my lifetime we'd be a spacefaring species.

Before Challenger, space flight seemed to be on a constantly improving trend. And likely it is, just on a much longer timeline than we supposed as kids.

Tech is similar - the advancements in the 80s-2000s in the computer industry felt much more revolutionary. I think that had a much larger impact than anything that's happened since.

The next revolution will likely be elsewhere like medicine.

> I think all the great stuff has been invented, it's all boring now.

This reminds me of a half-joking quote I think I saw on HN years ago about CS being mostly completed by the 80s.

you think it's boring* y'all oldies speak for yourself, the future is now, hell my friend is a vertual reality designer making 6 figures. Kids who grew up with modern tech are really only just starting to hit the market
> "It's an age thing - ... Tech is still really cool, compared to decades ago."

1. How can one possible claim that tech is cooler now than is was in the 60s when we were racing into space, developing semiconductors and transistors? Or the 70's when we were rapidly developing integrated circuits, computers and languages? Or cooler than maybe the coolest tech-time ever, the 00s and 1910s when we were simultaneously perfecting bicycles, developing automobiles, powered flight, electrical power networks, and mostly in folks garages or barns?! "It's an age thing." 2. Tech is always cool. 3. Don't let anyone else tell you what is cool, including me.

For me it started with having to write unit tests and acceptance tests and integration tests for the stuff I make.
When tech people say things like "most problems are people problems, not tech problems", showing that their field are already fully understood and they are just there to talk to a machine and not to build new things.
If you ask me, technology was always boring and sucked and was a bland expression of utilitarianism. At worst it was even more terrifying, remember when we developed nuclear bombs? Or even just ordinary bombs and tanks and other murderous technology? The fascination with tech is just the bias of youth, when everything in the world seems new and uncharted and full of possibility. You only enjoyed it because you were on the other side, you were the beneficiary, instead of being the one who has to spend your entire working life slaving away to keep it functioning. And dealing with the outlandish demands from customers and the general public who don't understand or care how it works, they just want the latest solution now and will toss any amount of money at the problem to get it.
How in any world were nuclear bombs NOT INTERESTING? Sure they sucked, maybe, even that is arguable. But only a Luddite will say something like ”nuclear bombs are boring”. Tech has always been interesting, and cool, at least since the industrial revolution in modern eras. As Kubrick showed brilliantly in 2001, “technology” is what has always made us different and successful. Brutal, sure, but successful nonetheless.
Well, I personally don't consider the technology to murder millions of people to be very interesting. It's more terrifying than it is interesting. The physics behind it? Sure, definitely interesting.
Looks more like you don’t want to use the word interesting independent of other feelings you may have about the topic. The story of the making of the atomic bomb is one of the most interesting stories of all history in my opinion. The smartest minds ever to live on this planet decided and agreed it was of the greatest urgency to do what they did and no sane person would argue otherwise.

The single greatest night of destruction in Japan during the war was not either of the nukes but the fire bombing of Tokyo. If the Americans didn’t make the nukes, at some point someone else would have. That’s the beauty (and interesting thing) about technology - it’s inevitable. You really can’t pick and choose. You can slow it down sure but never fully stop it.

If you want to understand the world and this topic with more nuance than a teenage hippy sayin “nukes bad Mann” then I will recommend “The making of the atomic bomb” by Richard Rhodes.

>Looks more like you don’t want to use the word interesting independent of other feelings you may have about the topic.

>If you want to understand the world and this topic with more nuance than a teenage hippy sayin “nukes bad Mann”

These comments are incredibly and egregiously pointless, wrong, rude, condescending and dismissive, don't do this. I know about the story and a lot of the history of the war and I still don't find it interesting, sorry. It's just depressing and angering to study, even though it is very necessary to study for a valid historical perspective and even though a lot of it was very inevitable from what the war had already escalated to. That's where you've very badly lost the plot.

Again not sure what exactly are you saying is rude. Just because someone’s offended we need to change the meaning of the word “interesting”?
Nobody is offended and nobody is trying to change the meaning of anything. You're assuming I know nothing about the topic and that's rude and makes for bad discusson. Don't do that.
* algorithmic timelines circa 2009

* bitcoin price jump in 2017

it won’t be over, the cat’s out of the bag

Smartphones. Purely consumption devices changed the balance to be more producer/consumer than collaborator.

The world is on board now so rapid tech changes aren't possible to market.

There's still crazy/genius if you look for it, but hobbyist only in most cases. NixOS, Urbit, any DHT or CRDT system, VR, Graal, WASM, mesh nets like ygssadril.

I'd extend that to smartphones, a tracking-based ad industry, and digital media sales.

Digital media sales provided serious, multiply-Apple's-stock-price levels of new revenue into the tech industry. Same with adtech for Google.

The smartphone enabled them to physically target an entirely new population of users.

Then both companies eventually evolved towards the bulk of their revenue, as all companies do.

(The more recent X-for-Y trends were a consequence of money being cheap and startups taking advantage. That will take care of itself)

I would argue smartphones are one of the best all-in-one devices for creating...most people just don't use it that way.
The hardware is awesome, it's the social stuff around them that make them useless.
When I setup a new iPhone, I do not think I am forced to expose myself to any social stuff other than SMS/MMS/Phone calls. And I think those can be disabled too, or at least the notifications.
Is it their fault? The software tries every trick in the book (and some new ones) to steal your attention.

I disagree about the creation utility from a quality perspective, lack of ergonomics while filming, bad mics, etc. But there's no question the availability of the device is astonishing.

The old addage: "the best camera is the one you have with you".

I actually bought cheap modern camcoder and it's obvious that it's descendant of old line of purpose made devices. It does one job but does it very well.
I'm genuinely intrigued, because I seethe with rage just trying to use the keyboard and guestures on smartphones and I can't really imagine trying to actually code or write or sketch on it.
With zero video editing experience, I recently shot and edited a 7 minute video of myself playing guitar, entirely on my iPhone. I was pretty surprised how well it worked. Yeah there were some UI warts (editing text, like you say...), and I wouldn't want to work that way for any serious work, but it really did lower the barrier for a complete noob in a way that finding/buying some PC video editing suite couldn't.
You say you wouldn't want to use this simplified phone-based video editing tools for serious work, but there is an entire industry's worth of livelihoods being made on TikTok and Instagram using these very editing tools. Not saying this to knock down your point or anything, just highlighting the fact that these tools have actually become good enough (sure, no one is editing feature-length Hollywood movies using them) to be qualified as "serious work".
yeah, consumption devices that turned tech into boutique sure put a dent in my care for where it’s going. Some of it has led to improvements no doubt but much of it is just obsession and consumerism i would be happier without.
> Purely consumption devices

I don't understand how this sentiment is still so common on HN. It's plainly false.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the vast majority of computer-aided personal creative work happens, in whole or part, on a smartphone—it's just that most of it's audio-visual and largely for personal wants and needs, so HN doesn't think that counts, I guess?

I only have a smartphone for those things. Do I browse HN and other crap on it? Yeah, of course. Would I buy it if it the only things it could do, aside from calls and texts, was watch Internet videos and browse the web? Hell. No. The GPS, the camera, the mic & speakers (it's my tuner when I play music!), and so on, are what sell it to me. I am 100% sure I'm far from unique in this. It also remote-controls my thermostats, acts as my document scanner completely replacing other forms of scanner for me, and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting about right now. It's my still and video camera, for all purposes.

"But using the GPS, tuner, et c. is still kinda consumption!" BS. Tools aren't about "consumption". Not the way people seem to mean it when they sneer at smartphones (and usually tablets, too).

There is an exact year: 2008. Two reasons:

- Obama is elected with significant help from new social media tactics. Powerful interests realize that tech will shape the future of politics. This leads to less "technology for technology's sake" and more of its use to achieve sociopolitical goals.

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/case-studies/o...

- The financial crash heats up resentment against elites. While it may seem like the East Coast media and financial set are opponents of Big Tech, to the average person, they're both out of touch elites. Tech stopped being cool when it stopped being the underdog.

All the easy problems were solved, and the hard ones don't offer a good return on investment so they are only achieved by academia/serendipity.
It's right there in your first three words, it didn't change so much as you, "grew up".

It doesn't have to be technology, you could probably say the same thing about most things in your life, "I don't know what happened. I used to like hanging out with my friends, riding my bike, listening to music. But then things changed and now I've got a job, a mortgage to worry about and it's all about money and I never have enough time to do the things that I want to do".

But you have an internal contradiction. You're nostalgically looking back at a time when you optimistically said, "Wherever I looked at the world's problems, more technology seemed to be the answer" but then say that, "Today's startups are solving the most boring problems imaginable.".

More technology is not the answer to most problems and most problems are boring.

Its always been, you're just realizing it as part of maturing and understanding the world. Technology cannot solve people problems the same way that some silly agile ticketing software isn't going to fix some broken company culture.

There were many silly startups in the late 90's/early 00's. Even the commonly sought after employers of FAANG aren't doing revolutionary things, their cash cows: advertising (F), giant ecommerce store (Amzn), makes phones/tablets/laptops & sells digital stuff (Apple), streaming video (Netflix), advertising (Google). Any cool tech coming out of those companies is mostly driven by them scaling the above named revenue pipelines to the Nth degree.

One could have solid arguments that many things tech has done have made things worse. Is tech/software eating the world driving a bigger divide between the 1% and poor people? You gotta admit tech contributes to that. If someone wanted to run a propaganda campaign about topic X, isn't social media the perfect platform to do it? You can reach millions upon millions of people with a few clicks of clever copy-writing to push an agenda. You can even target them directly.

The wealth divide is a different issue and has always been the regardless of “tech” - a new way to sew isn’t tech as we see it but innovation in looms cost many a seamstress their jobs - ditto with mine improvements, manufacturing improvements and so much more - but at the same time it has improved our lives no longer as we locked in a factory 80 hours a week..

To me, tech has been a great equalizer - and while it’s currently used for manipulation we do finally have to agree that everyone has internet, phone and computers at home when 5 to 10 years ago that wasn’t as true.. hell, we even get homeless people a phone because of how critical and pervasive they have become in society. That’s a good thing they can call for help, refill meds, check on social security, network with peers and friends and such.

You kind of made my point. Not as many people are "locked in a factory 80 hours a week" that is driven by technology (which includes hardware tech).

When a new car manufacturing plant opens and says they will create 250 jobs that is far less than it was 20-30 years ago when a new plant opened. Robotic manufacturing, software, etc. have driven that. Pick any industry and technology will have driven some jobs out of it.

It is absurd that we've somehow managed to create a system where manufacturing is too easy, doesn't employ enough people, and that's a looming crisis. If production per person increases, let's give everyone a couple days off.
yeah, that's what we should be doing...

People shouldn't do back breaking work that robots are better at and going back to treating humans like robots ins't a solution - working less is a viable option and the promise of tech. I'd happily work 20 hours a week to split my job between two people because the diversity pays off in spades and we'd all do better working less anyway

Manufacturing hasn't been automated as much as it's been outsourced to cheaper countries with less workers' rights and union membership. Automation has only really hit a select few industries like car manufacturing and warehouse picking, compared to the number of blue collar jobs that have disappeared.
As a similar millennial geek who has been making some of the gadgets for the past few year, I still get wicked excited about new gadgets. The complexity and beauty inside is still magic to me. When a prototype comes in, I love looking at the insides and thinking about how much people are gonna love this thing. No me though, since it’s currently a huge garbage fire and nothing works :)
To be blunt, the change is in you and not in "tech". It correlates with you becoming an adult, and your perspective on technology and society changing.
Maybe I'm an outlier, but my story contradicts yours.

I started developing S/W professionally in 1986. It was cool for more than a decade. Then around 2000, software shifted to web dev and mobile, and I lost interest. Before 2000, we wrote code largely from scratch. After 2000, coding increasingly became copying-and-pasting from some ginormous S/W framework written by a committee. (That's why AlphaCode works.) The coder becomes a user. Don't write a function, call somebody else's function. That's programming by proxy.

Tech has changed. To me, that style of programming is a lot less fun.

* Today's heavily publicised, heavily shared startups solve boring problems.

You're only looking at the surface.

This kind of boring stuff has always been around. As has the pursuit of money and the use of tech in that pursuit.

Tech is more accessible now, and thus you will naturally get more noise.

It does not follow that there are fewer signals, just more noise to filter out.

The iPhone and Android are such impressive tools and so many people have them. Having a super computer in your pocket is the norm. There is more compute power in the average person’s pocket than IBM had onboard the Saturn 5 rocket. It’s just part of life! The norm. We’ve adjusted and adapted (sort of). Advancements beyond what we have today are hard to fathom for most folks but also expected.
well people hate 'techies' in San Francisco because they are thought of as transplants wearing northface invading the culture or whatever, also they are seen as the sole source of raising rents and overall gentrification of the bay area. I guess they are seen as unworthy and their jobs just give them tons of money and they dont contribute.

In Mexico/Colombia/South America people are both envious and hate tech nomads, mostly because they have high salaries and can seemingly do whatever they want and afford it all.

I think the association with wealth and marginal taste is the reason people dont like people who work in tech.

When it started was the second tech bubble in silicon valley bay area and the rise of 'digital nomads', alot of it is warranted and alot of it is jealousy.

Look around, we are living the dream. For example: we are streaming unlimited music, tv shows and movies to all our devices. Flying drones for aerial footage. Home automation for a few bucks.

Tech isn't boring, we are oversaturated.

We're not just supersaturated; we're shaped by tech more than we shape it. Tech has become essential and inescapable. You can't fully participate in today's world without a smartphone. That phone and its underlying contacts, media, interfaces and databases are the world. Tech has become yet another necessary mainstream commodity, like electricity or plumbing. Nobody gets excited by those anymore, either.

Today, everyone expects to be able to contact you anywhere anytime. That's an mind-blowingly different way to live than before smartphones. (I'm a mid-boomer. The pre-electronic world I was born into is SO long gone.)

Smartphones are by far a bigger change than the other computer-based tech watersheds that came before -- the arrival of PCs (especially since they weren't networked until 1990), or the arrival of online info (web) which was accessible only by PCs, ca 1995. Only 10 years after that, the arrival of smartphones and social networks changed the definition of "tech" to be a state of mind: "being online, connected, and accessible all the time". Now we're used to it, so it's lost its charm. In fact, it's probably true that tech has become more annoying or addictive than fun. Who wants to dance to tunes dominated by trillion dollar mass-manipulative corporations?

That's why tech is no longer cool. Today's New New Thing isn't changing your life anymore. Not in a good way, anyway.