Ask HN: Why is Substack so popular?
So, let me preface this by saying that I think it's possible to have a healthy discussion on this topic, and I am not trying to be overly judgmental of Substack.
But, I am genuinely curious why is it getting so popular and particularly here on Hacker News. Does it have some kind of a hidden feature that makes it very appealing?
My number one assumption would be that it uses a global userbase, so people who write on Substack can collect subscribers/readers much faster. Is that all there is to it?
I also know that Substack prefetches an email address (once you enter it on any Substack-based site) and then plasters it on all their other customer sites, which I _really_ hate about their platform.
But I can see the appeal in that, I guess.
177 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 213 ms ] thread(Former NY Times reporter)
https://akarlin.substack.com/p/happening-the-ukraine-war-202...
One of his previous posts is his analysis of the (then, upcoming) war, its context, and causes.
Of course, you need to take it with an open pit sized block of salt — eg he predicted that the Russia will most likely conquer Ukraine in less than a week. This, needless to say, turned to be laughably wrong, and makes rest of his analysis rather questionable.
The point is, however, that you are unlikely to see this sort of unabashed (indeed, proud) and undistorted Russian perspective elsewhere in western media sphere — indeed, I wouldn’t be surprised if this comment got downvoted for “spreading Russian propaganda”. Myself, I think it is extremely important to understand the perspective and motivation of the enemy, so that you can predict their movements and effectively prevent or resist them.
Gives an insight into the thought processes behind starting and continuing this war, and why some Russians might be supporting Putin and the war, and what to expect going forward.
Even wrong perspectives can be valuable and informative.
https://graymirror.substack.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin
Also Nick Land:
https://zerophilosophy.substack.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Land
If you're interested in censored material more broadly, you might be interested in the ALA's most challenged books lists [2] which include such classics as "Of Mice and Men" and "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" along with books as widely loved as "Harry Potter" and "James and the Giant Peach"
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/01/27/substac... [2] https://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbook... https://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbook...
https://www.eugyppius.com/p/maximum-vaccination
According to this Guardian article, the "Center for Countering Digital Hate" (also mentioned in your article) would be happy if Substack hadn't given it the platform:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/27/anti-vaxx...
The idea that Yet Another Generic NGO needs to "counter hate" because someone on the internet thinks the vaccine is not going to stop the pandemic is completely bonkers.
What I want to say is, a lot of the controversy around Substack seems to be that it is not aligned with the Right Side in the Culture War. I think they have some great writers, but they're not the next WikiLeaks or anything.
https://russiandissent.substack.com/
https://boriquagato.substack.com/
This was pretty obvious in 2015/2016 with the Trump campaign managing to get a lot of exposure everywhere.
But it's also a self-reinforcing thing, because e.g. Twitter has earned millions from all of the engagement that anything Trump did on the platform; he tweeted, millions would flock to the replies, and tens or hundreds of millions would know that he tweeted through the thousands of news outlets that pounced on it. I'm pretty confident that if it wasn't for Trump, Twitter would've petered out years ago.
The business model is also distinct in which domain experts are incentivized to create quality content due to their income directly tied to specialized niche subscribers.
As other have mentioned the lack of Paywall is nice tho. Medium had one of the most frustrating iirc.
This may be really bad over analysis combined with misremembering, but both sites felt like they reflected the HN users-base (or vice versa).
I remember circa 2015-2016 Medium posts and HN comments felt in sync in regards to the tone, content etc. I feel the same thing with many Substack blogs seem feeling like an HN comment section turned into an article.
You could follow me! https://link.medium.com/w4fPh9dzmpb
But really i don't think I actually consume content by following people . I consume content via social media or aggregators like HN and enough of that contains medium that makes it worth it.
AKA the 'burning investor capital' stage.
I remember when Uber could ignore the laws of economics and freely undercut taxicab prices. Now they cost the same, if not more.
Substack has a more journalistic feel to it. It also seems to have a broader audience than Medium, which I mostly associate with tech content.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_child_pornography
>We don’t allow content that promotes harmful or illegal activities, including material that advocates, threatens, or shows you causing harm to yourself, other people, or animals.
I have seen plenty of substacks talking about the war in Ukraine (for example [0]). This is _clearly_ advocating harm to other people -- you're talking about soldiers and weapons in war after all. Is this breaking the guidelines? Taken literally yes, but of course not in practice.
Eventually, somebody's idea of what is acceptable will clash with the moderation, and we will see the same cries of censorship and deplatforming we see everywhere else.
[0] https://patrickfox.substack.com/p/lets-fck-with-vlad-part3
(1) they say they are "anti-censorship" and won't evict writers from their "private platform"
(2) they let the writer own their audience / mailing list (so they can leave with their audience, if they want to)
(3) they advanced money to popular writers
These things with the addition of a simple writing/reading/subscription platform that isn't overrun with adverts gives writers confidence that substack is aligned with their interests and will make money while being on their side (this is true at least for now).
Additionally, the financial success of many writers on the platform has raised the status of creating a substack. I think this is an important secondary effect -- you can disparage this as "pseudo-intellectual" but there are people that are winning from it and doing well is always cool.
---
*Edit*: Put another way, Substack's success is due to realism. They've made a realistic attempt to incentivize excellent writers to writing on their platform. They incentivize even those that are already very popular, by not locking them in and by giving them control of their audience. They have even gone as far as giving very significant upfront financial incentives to get the most famous writers on the internet onto their platform.
Other platforms try to own their writers and treat them like commodities producing SEO content. This was obviously not an attractive offer to talented or independent writers, let alone writers that have already grown huge audiences.
I took a step back while writing my comment and realised that it must seem kind of like random success to some people. I don't think it is at all. Other startups tried to create "blog platforms" and worked on the product/technology/UI, but the founders of Substack took a look at "what will make good quality writers sign-up" and executed on this.
It shows me that even when an idea looks simple and like it has been done before with no success, if your thinking isn't clouded by what has gone before and you actually have a new perspective and are able to understand the market incentives better than others you have a chance to do much better.
"Anti-censorship" is hugely unpopular with the mainstream intellectual community these days. It's close to being a dog whistle for the alt-right. I'm surprised this is a stance that would attract more "excellent writers".
Excellent writers could have been ignored by the mainstream market previously if they were outside of the norm and sometimes found in baskets with bad apples (e.g. "alt-right"). The non-mainstream is actually a collection of smaller minority groups -- it tends to be the mainstream that is more homogenous. It doesn't surprise me that Substack has found success by not treating the non-mainstream as equally worthy of scorn.
It also won't surprise me when they start to attract more writers from the mainstream. The mainstream can sometimes appear to be totally homogenous in their hatred of liberal content policies but this is mostly due to the efforts of a small minority. If the offering is good, others will slowly come aboard.
As another commentator noted (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31084791), Substack's policy is politically more in line with neoliberal complaints of censorship than the complaints from those in the alt-right. (Their comment is better than mine since it is a more direct response to the core of your comment, which could be read as suggesting that use of Substack points towards sympathy for the "alt-right".)
[1] - https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
I'd disagree. It's unpopular with left-leaning mainstream audiences, but among intellectuals who write for a living, I imagine that extra assurances of not getting kicked off the platform are rather attractive.
It is truly wild how HN often frames censorship as something coming purely from the left while ignoring the laws coming out of conservative state legislatures across the country. There is a wide spectrum of people both pushing for censorship and pushing against it.
Another thing dying is the defense of protests. I made a couple comments in popular Canadian subreddits about the truckers and was banned from a few for saying "protest isn't meant to make people feel happy and if the protestors don't make you feel uncomfortable you either agree with them or they're not doing their job". I got banned from one with the reason being "be gone nazi scum go try parler".
Additionally, the sub saw many multiples of normal traffic, so mods were quick to ban anyone posting anything resembling a Fox talking point.
Here's exactly my problem. This is the only narrative people are allowed to have on mainstream subreddits.
I'll admit it wasn't 100% peaceful but let's be honest here - it wasn't violent either and it wasn't an occupation. They demanded the PM step down or be removed by the GG because they don't understand how politics work here but visit some Canadian subreddits and what was done is widely regarded as a coup attempt. The view that it was a coup, or even an attempted coup, is literally insane and hysterical.
Regarding the length of the protest - Ottawa police sat on their hands and did nothing to stop or remove the truckers. When they finally did lift a finger to remove them they successfully removed them. It took 3 days but if they had just done something earlier it wouldn't have grown to as big as it did.
The cynical take is that free speech is great when you're the institutional gate-keeper, but not so much when the plebs can publish what they want.
Maybe you are aware of some example that i'm not, though.
Children eventually become adults. How do we expect the adults of the future to deal with difficult topics like race if we prevent them from learning about them?
>Maybe you are aware of some example that i'm not, though.
I linked to another example in a different comment.[1]
[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31085565
[1] - https://www.natlawreview.com/article/florida-s-stop-woke-act...
https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1515563419386191880
It may be important here to separate journalists and political activists from the intellectual community. Not to say that they aren’t intellectuals, but the issue could be limited to that set of intellectuals in particular.
* https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/11/business/media/substack-n...
* https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/13/business/media/substack-g...
Along with one of Substack's founders responding to it: https://twitter.com/lulumeservey/status/1514318085083340807
It makes me wonder: how many of the opinions that we are exposed to originate from journalists/activists? How much are we mixing up the opinions of these people as representing the opinions of scientists, engineers and philosophers? How much are we mixing up the opinions of journalists/activists as representing those of your average person?
I'm starting to see a deep issue with the preeminence of journalist/activist opinion.
I don’t know where did you get this idea? What did you mean “mainstream intellectual community”? Do you have any evidence like mass signatures supporting censorship from mainstream intellectuals?
People consume too much Reddit / Twitter sometimes live in an alternative reality.
"Anti-censorship" is definitely a dog whistle call out to the right wing: "Feel free to lie and spread dangerous misinformation on our platform."
I don't know if Substack actually allows "Fauci is the devil, all liberals are socialist pedophiles" writers on their site, but that's what they're promising to support.
This is a gross inversion of normal relationships between people. I hope that Substack's model becomes more popular and people choose to eject exploitative mediators and force them to be third party service providers where they belong.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30420113
2. They basically solve the business model issue for writers, so you really can focus on the writing. At least, more so than the alternatives.
3. Their design is actually pretty nice, and focused on just two things: list building and content.
4. The defaults make sense, and solve real problems for people who want to make money with their writing.
Paying for what is essentially celebrity endorsements seems like the exact opposite of "astorturfed".
* edit: free choice as in "not swayed by payment"
Musicians complain a lot about Spotify being a poor deal for them financially, but there's no doubt it was an excellent deal for Joe Rogan.
However, a guaranteed paycheck for the first year is lower risk, so they took the deal.
This all depend on your own efforts building an audience and it's still the case that most authors won't make much. But it seems like better terms than Spotify for moderately successful authors.
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/financial-transparency
Paying writers for their work means they didn't choose to join Substack?
But then people who don't know or understand this yet might subscribe to one of these paid contributors and think, gee, Substack must be a great platform because Famous McBrain writes on it, as opposed to the subtly more accurate point that Substack's _money_ must be great because Famous McBrain took it.
He most definitely didn’t pretend to “just go there”, and his post on the subject mentioned a few others with similar deals by name.
Do you have a problem when a publisher pays an advance to (say) Stephen King in order to get him to publish through them?
Substack is a better solution for this, and it includes the mailing list building features that make it a superior solution to the social media treadmill.
1 is a marketing ploy, and while "astroturfing" sounds bad, it's fairly accurate and also a really good idea for what is a pretty niche market.
All that said, I wish it wasn't this way. Siloing Internet content, even if the operation was an open, squeaky-clean, First Amendment-loving angel, is antithetical to the Internet ethos. And based on extensive experience, even the angelic operations eventually become not-so-angelic.
Celebrity endorsements are not astroturfing.
You could make the argument that there are enough celebrity accounts and that those accounts are run by the substack marketing team that it should be considered astroturf but that seems like a long stretch to me.
I’m not going to spend $100/month to follow my ten favorite bloggers.
I don't think that's a question to be asked of Hacker News readers in general, as presumably most of us aren't Substack writers, just readers.
To be honest, I don't like Substack as an application. Their commenting defaults are terrible. I'm not a fan of the push model of newsletters in general and prefer the pull model of going to the site whenever you feel like being updated on your own schedule. But I like the writers, so I go there anyway.
Getting paid directly for writing, without dealing with the administrative overhead of things not specifically built for writing, like Patreon.
We can talk about censorship all day until we're prohibited from doing so by a private entity and move to another platform, but it won't change the fact that the writers yelling the most about it could've easily set up a Patreon with a monthly plan and published long-form text there. Plenty of people still do it. Substack just does that one thing better.
Substack has a different financial incentive structure that attracts writers away from alternatives such as Medium.com or hosted WordPress:
- monetization is easy to go from "free" to "paid newsletters". The pricing is set by the author and the revenue isn't shared with other writers
- for paid subscriptions, the writer has the subscribers' email addresses for a more direct relationship
In contrast, Medium does not reveal email addresses and does a revenue share of a flat $50 subscription price.
Looked at a certain way, Substack replaces MailChimp (an email audience relationship tool) more so than Medium.
The founder of Substack gave an interview and he said that Substack is a SaaS backoffice of Ben Thompson's "Stratechery" paid newsletter. Ben was one of the early pioneers of the paid email newsletters resurgence but since Substack didn't exist, he had to string together the payments and emails logistics himself. The later writers wanting to get paid for newsletters can just use Substack instead of reinventing Ben's tech stack.
Take a look at someone like Freddie deBoer. He was a very popular blogger, had written for all the prestigious publications, and was about to accept a $15/hr manual labor job before substack offered him a contract. Now he's making 200k+ a year.
Once enough popular writers were on the platform, and with some help from twitter controversies, the network effect took over.
I love it because it's fast and minimalist. No ads, no nonsense, just the text.
Also coincidentally on substack...
"He wants a world where smart people and dull people have equally comfortable lives, and where intelligence can take its rightful place as one of many virtues which are nice to have but not the sole measure of your worth."
IMO the more accurate claim is that FDB wants everyone's lives to have an equally comfortable floor. Whatever happens after this floor gets established (by a state, or otherwise) is not his main concern... and in my view, at least, it'll be a very different world so what happens is less important argue about.
Alexander then writes as if FDB hates whenever meritocracy dictates anything, but to me the important point is that the meritocracy dictates the floor.
"... Teacher tourism might be a factor, but hardly justifies DeBoer's "charter schools are frauds, shut them down" perspective."
I think FDB wants to shut down charters because he recognizes that they're immoral, and public schools are simply what we're supposed to maintain for taking care of and educating our kids (at this moment in history.) It seems like Alexander is just saying "you're dreaming too big!"; in every era some people always exist to say this.
"Still, I worry that the title - The Cult Of Smart - might lead people to think there is a cult surrounding intelligence, when exactly the opposite is true."
What Alexander describes here is the reactionary progressive strain of anti-IQ that is only as strong as progressivism's enemies' focus on IQ. It's an inverse function; I don't think liberals actually care that much about less intelligent people, people with educational disabilities and so on.
"DeBoer not only wants to keep the whole prison-cum-meat-grinder alive and running, even after having proven it has no utility, he also wants to shut the only possible escape my future children will ever get unless I'm rich enough to quit work and care for them full time."
I had to skim this ending part. Maybe I missed it, but Alexander doesn't mention that: FDB wants to lower the dropout age to 12; Schools guarentee that kids get to have interactions with lots of other kids, even in very rural areas; Schools guarentee parents time to themselves, to not worry about keeping their kids safe. Aren't these important points?
Respectable and respectful review, but I am still with FDB in ethos.
>'FDB wants to lower the dropout age to 12; Schools guarentee that kids get to have interactions with lots of other kids, even in very rural areas; Schools guarentee parents time to themselves, to not worry about keeping their kids safe. Aren't these important points?'
Yes, but 5 - 12 is still a looong time for a kid. All those points are orthogonal to charters.
>'I think FDB wants to shut down charters because he recognizes that they're immoral [citation needed], and public schools are simply what we're supposed to maintain for taking care of and educating our kids (at this moment in history.) It seems like Alexander is just saying "you're dreaming too big!"; in every era some people always exist to say this."'
Personally, I'm very fond of Alexander's passage against public-schools-only near the end:
"I am so, so tired of socialists who admit that the current system is a helltopian torturescape, then argue that we must prevent anyone from ever being able to escape it. Who promise that once the last alternative is closed off, once the last nice green place where a few people manage to hold off the miseries of the world is crushed, why then the helltopian torturescape will become a lovely utopia full of rainbows and unicorns. If you can make your system less miserable, make your system less miserable! Do it before forcing everyone else to participate in it under pain of imprisonment if they refuse! Forcing everyone to participate in your system and then making your system something other than a meat-grinder that takes in happy children and spits out dead-eyed traumatized eighteen-year-olds who have written 10,000 pages on symbolism in To Kill A Mockingbird and had zero normal happy experiences - is doing things super, super backwards!"
p174 : "There is no such thing as a 'public charter.' 'Public' does not just denote public money but also public accountability; most charter schools are not under the control of the parents and local citizens at all and thus cannot be called public."
p177: "[T]he very competitive landscape that charters are meant to foster creates a structural bias toward dishonest practices."
All public guarantees in this modern time are going to end up with a lot of shitty conditions and outcomes, when people in power don't care about them. Maybe that's a poor reply but it's my reply. The book indeed mixes "just overthrow the culture and machines of capitalism" and "here's some reforms I like, each of which may or may not be precluded by the overthrowy bit, at least a little." I think an unstated and reasonable assumption of FDB's is that if we enact these reforms, it will be because we've convinced the public that public schools and teachers are important. The ideas aren't just to put legal language on paper, they are cultural reforms advanced through appeals to compassion ("As a socialist, my interest lies in expanding the degree to which the community takes responsibility each all of its members, in deepening our societal commitment to ensuring the wellbeing of everyone.") Did the gay and lesbian community get marriage legalized by just crafting the most perfect bill texts?
It's hard to deny that leftism is in a confused way right now. They (generally, not deBoer afaik) think prostitution is liberating!
Minor quibble about this: On large pages, it can be quite slow. E.g., on https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t... , it takes a few seconds after initial loading for it be responsive to pressing the PgDown key, at least on my machine.
I tried it out and was kind of shocked by the formatting lock-in and all the embedded tracking... I couldn't make it just default to plain text and I wasn't sure what the GDPR implications would be, i.e. whether I as an EU resident can do a Substack newsletter for EU subscribers and if so what do I have to ask them to agree to exactly.
But yeah if you don't care about that stuff it's pretty frictionless and I will probably give it another try if I get my newsletter act together. And I like that I can save Substack articles (the web versions) to Pocket for plain-text reading offline, a lot of sites don't support that.
I'm happy to pay $50/year to support these independent voices.
So they are a proven-successful platform, and that attracts other writers.
I used Medium before. Medium treats your data as its a generic post about some topic. If I wrote an article on AI, it would recommend other articles about AI from various authors. That's fine for some purposes, but as a writer trying to build an audience, I'd like to think people come to my post because they like something I have to say and would prefer a recommender system to recommend other posts by me.
Medium's monetization model is to get people to pay for Medium articles, not those of the author.
Another gross example of this is that you cannot easily see a publications from a publication. On a site, you see a tiny link called "archive" to see a writer's historical posts. There you can filter on month but can't see a dump of everything the person has written. They don't even offer "load more posts" or a calendar view. It's very hostile to the writer.
I had around 1k followers on Medium but if I posted something and didn't publish it on social media, I would get maybe a few dozen readers. Whereas Substack I consistently get around 20-25% of people that are subscribed open my publication.
Is there something between Medium and Substack? Probably, but I don't really care to look around. Substack offers you a chance to build a reader base, gives you access to emails and lets you easily monetize directly without being part of the global pool of generic low quality articles like Medium does.
I wrote more about it here.
https://mleverything.substack.com/p/migrating-from-medium-to...
The article also touches upon factors of Substack's success:
> [...] the platform portrayed itself as a haven for independent writers with fewer resources while offering six-figure advances to several prominent white men. The hands-off content moderation policy [...]
What I found most amusing about that article was the lack of mention of Bari Weiss, the extremely popular Jewish journalist who wrote for the NYT for years before joining Substack and quickly becoming one of their most popular paid newsletters. It seems like a pretty relevant detail in the Substack story, but because it doesn't aid the narrative of the platform being a haven for right-wing white males, NYT naturally left it out. Pretty poor reporting, IMO.
Then further down the article, they list the top sellers: "The most successful is the history professor Heather Cox Richardson, who has more than a million paid and unpaid subscribers. Other notable writers include the knighted novelist Salman Rushdie, the punk poet laureate Patti Smith and the Eisner-winning comic book writer James Tynion IV."
How many of this list is white and male?
> The platform portrayed itself as a haven for independent writers with fewer resources while offering six-figure advances to several prominent white men.
Is just describing how it was formed and indeed the list of 'recruits' was largely male and white (Greenwald, Yglesias, Singal, Deboer, Sullivan, etc). This is perhaps an unfair framing because there were indeed Women and PoC in their list of Substack Pros as well, but they had smaller audiences and their advances were substantially smaller.
> "The most successful is the history professor Heather Cox Richardson, who has more than a million paid and unpaid subscribers. Other notable writers include the knighted novelist Salman Rushdie, the punk poet laureate Patti Smith and the Eisner-winning comic book writer James Tynion IV."
Is describing who's popular on it today.
Those two paragraphs don't have to be consistent for the story to be accurate..
I don't get why they needed to put this in unless they they are trying to say the platform is racist and sexist. Maybe the NYT is afraid of competition?
The get paid part is important. You like one writer on substack, you give em 5 bucks a month. You like someone else, it's exactly the same process to give 5 bucks.
It's the same as Twitch (for gamers) - where people give 5$/month to people who just stream themselves playing computer games. It's because it's a single click and it's the same click for all other streamers.
The barrier substack has broken, is the shitshow that is payments online - they did it for journalists, twitch did it for gamers, onlyfans did it for chicks showing their body parts, etc.
Of course the problem that'll destroy Substack is when they will inevitably raise their fees, piss off their writers and in 10 years, some other Substack like thing will pop up, that'll do the same thing and so the cycle continues.
It makes it easy to write and get paid for writing; the incentives are very much against doing journalism, and even the former journalists on substack that I’ve seen mostly aren't doing journalism, and some are quite open that escaping journalistic standards and norms and was a big part of their motivation.
The most prominent figures on there are journalists or ex-journalists however.
It is a bit like Twitch - it doesn't have to be for gamers, but since 99% of the streamers and 99% of the watchers are interested in games when they go there, it is what it is.
As for doing journalism - there is no incentive to do good work in just about every field. Sad face shrug.