Ask HN: I'm disabled and out of money. Now what?
I spent the 2010s as a founder. My company was funded by YC and several others. We were moderately successful but didn't see a meaningful exit. After my startup failed, I started consulting to pay the bills.
In 2018 I started having problems with chronic pain and gradually became less and less capable on the job. Consulting gigs were letting me go because I couldn't keep up. The last time I worked was over a year ago, and I finally exhausted my savings in early June 2022.
I live as cheaply as I possibly can at this point. I live with family and only pay for absolute necessities. It comes out between $1200 and $1500 per month.
I'm in the US and I have an application in for SSDI, but, from what I've heard, it's very hard to get benefits, especially if you have an invisible illness like chronic pain. It's likely that my application will be initially denied and I will have to focus on an appeal. It could take a year or more of fighting to be approved.
I am selling some of my old stuff on eBay but it's exhausting and frustrating given my limitations. It's not sustainable.
I have a car payment due soon and I'm already behind by one.
Worst of all, my life is pretty drab at this point. I am obviously depressed. I see a therapist and a psychiatrist but, fundamentally, the source of my depression is the state of my life. I have nothing to look forward to. I can't even afford to toss a few bucks into side projects so I at least have something to do with my time... I mostly watch TV, play video games and lurk on the internet. It's absolutely soul sucking.
I think, given the right environment, I could finish a weekly workload of a bit less than half-time and slowly re-learn how to work again even with my limitations, but no one wants to hire a middle-aged disabled person for part-time work. Further, all of my experience is in startups and that makes me less palatable to larger companies, but larger companies have more options to accommodate disabled people.
I don't know what to do. Has anyone in the HN community been here?
EDIT: A few people have asked what I’d like to do if I were to work again. The answer is that I don’t know!
Before I started having problems, I was a backend-centric web developer but I’m pretty burned out on that these days.
I’ve always wanted to get into embedded, but I have no idea if I can make a lateral move like that in my current state.
Whatever I do, it needs to be with someone who will give me the space to try and fail and try again. That’s really the main thing.
Feel free to EMAIL ME:
tyvm for the shrimp at gmail dot com
265 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 259 ms ] threadThe practical experience that I have is frequent exhaustion from things that should be easy, difficulty focusing, flu-like aches and tons of migraines.
Every hope for your success..
Most likely you have a virus or bacterial infection that hasn't been detected yet. I'm in a very similar situation like you so I'm speaking from personal experience. Ever been bitten by a tick? Do you have gut issues?
Read this, very important: https://www.hardtowrite.com/pathogens/
As for earning money: Assuming you're too unwell to consult, you can do mindless tasks on Appen. https://connect.appen.com/qrp/public/home Things like checking search results for Bing or Google, improving Apple & Google maps. Pay is between $15, $24 / hour depending on the project.
Have you been checked out for celiac? I had all sorts of unexplained health effects but the #1 thing was feeling exhausted all the time and falling asleep after lunch every day.
It's just an anecdote, of course. I hope you get cured :)
All I can say is focus on fixing the problem. Do whatever you need to do to diagnose yourself, heal yourself, and focus. Going to work through the pain an fatigue was tolerable only because it kept me able to pay the chiro/surgery bills.
Self diagnosis comes through process of elimination sometimes. Try eliminating or adding different things from/to your diet for a month, one at a time.
I am based in Europe, but used to live in the US. Is there a specific type of job, even if part-time, that you think you could do well?
Start the process ASAP. With an attorney with good recommendations from others.
EDIT: AARP link because it was the least biased piece of info I could find on the topic that wasn't a lead or referral generator: https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-an...
LA would be hard, I feel for you.
Any suggestion on advocacy programs? I am in the Midwest if that helps.
I know that this depends on specific impairments, but have you found ways to do things you enjoy? This is the hardest thing for me right now: I don’t want to spend the rest of my life watching TV.
Maybe you want to pursue a creative endeavor. Piano, art, and game development (albeit at a very slow pace and intermittently) have been helpful for me.
I’ve met folks in unusual industries that need ongoing tech work/knowledge but have no desire to have this knowledge and effort in house. Medical device manufacturing was one such field. (work was government compliance, and server patching/network maintenance)
The way to find these is to really just look for a job which emphasizes enterprise, a tech you know, and the main focus being upgrade from version X to version Y. Bonus points if this is in a large firm with minimal competition in its sector.
These companies largely need someone to be there in case they might need some job done, but generally they need people to pretend to be busy. With remote work, they probably don’t need you to try particularly hard at that.
This. I had two tries at starting up last decade, failed. Good for me, I had some back up plans. Beyond all, I realised, a regular salaried job is a privilege. There is nothing wrong in taking up a full time 9-5 job. In my case I had a full time job, before, and just continued it after my venture went under water. For some reason such a job which is something most people aspire for, is considered some sort of a failure in entrepreneur community. You get a salary every month, with annual bonus, and health care plus vacation covered. How is this failure? If anything this is the best thing that can happen to many people on this planet.
I'd advice the OP to consider taking up a full time job. If you have started up and seen any amount of success at all, chances are you will do good at interviews and eventually at your job. Do this for a few years until, fix your health and finances- and then work from there.
Even though it may be hard to do so right now, try to focus on the things that are in your control at the moment. What was your skillset before your disability. Which of these skills do you still hold now?
Are there any disability inclusion legislations in your country you could take advantage of when looking for a job?
I'd even do some research. What is your long term goal? You said you were a founder in the past. Do you still want to do something similar to this? Try to see if there are founders that had similar situations to yours. You can even look into their lives and the road that they took before they got to where they currently are.
As for the short term things like being late on payments and bills, try to ask a friend or family member for help with your finances. They might be able to look at things more objectively and help you make cuts in certain areas until you get back up to where you may want to be.
This is all of course going to take a lot of work, and it's definitely going to have its challenges. This fight is not going to be easy but I assure you that it will be worthwhile. I wish you the very best.
Did you enjoy YC? Could you do it again?
In the US it's really easy to spend $1500 a month even on medicine alone, not to mention food, electricity, etc.
In other countries, $1500 is minimum wage, and in others it's maximum wage for most people.
Making $1500 a month in Belarus, for example, puts you in the top 1% of everybody.
Of course, that oversimplifies the problem somewhat, since any changes could worsen the situation overall, e.g. decreased mental health. Sitting in a bare room paid for by someone else and watching the wallpaper peel away has very little out of pocket cost, after all.
The counterargument is that homelessness and loss of medication would probably be far worse -- for example, it could be wiser to sell the car and live an ascetic lifestyle for 16-24 months until the disability appeals are processed, at which point the OP could return to an equilibrium. Stretching out the runway, so to speak.
Forming any actionable advice in this vein is impossible without a better understanding of the OP's costs, however.
In any case, selling his/her car seems like an easy way to cut costs.
However it sounds like medical costs are the culprit, which was the intention of my question.
My wife found joy every day even though she was terminally ill, and I'd be remiss not to point you to the same place where she learned to find it:
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/living-with-...
If you want, you can email me to my username@gmail.com and I will send you her Instagram feed which is still online and you will see what she went through and how she stayed positive, peaceful, and even happy despite her awful ordeal.
Lastly, you are more than the sum of your accomplishments. Your material needs are few, and your qualifications many. Get a job doing anything you can do from home, and just start grinding. Don't worry about trying to get back to where you were. Accept your new normal and work it like any other problem.
But I was wrong, and I'm sorry. You're just a regular part of this community and your wife happens to have religious beliefs that helped her through tough times.
I apologize for jumping to conclusions, and I'm posting this response mostly so others don't make the same mistake and assume your post is spam.
https://www.dehek.com/general/health-wellness/escaping-suici...
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/18/j...
However, I don't think I should be the one deciding what the OP is interested in or not. If they want a religious discussion they are free to follow up, or else they can ignore it. I just didn't want to erroneously mark it as spam.
<aside> Really though, what's the difference between a cult and a religion? The amount of real estate they own? Every mainstream religion presumably started from a small cult at some point. Yeah, there are some questionable JW practices and adherents who do shitty things, but you could say that about any religion, or really any group of people. As an agnostic outsider who never believed in any religion, they all seem kooky and silly to me, but I also recognize that they fulfill deeply-rooted human needs for belonging and meaning.
The OP is already in a rough place, between the chronic pain and the depression. It's not up to me censor their options. If they can find some respite and peace, be it in a religion or in mindfulness or in nature or in community or in harmless drugs, you know... good on 'em. As long as they're not hurting themselves or others in the process, not my place to judge how they find solace.
Our society is so obsessed with materialism and the worship of greed that sometimes even just asking people to consider other spheres of being -- spirituality, community, personal meaning, whatever -- might open up avenues they wouldn't even have considered otherwise. IMO, when you're truly desperate, no option should be off the table.
But of course others are free to disagree, and I'm also glad the OP is getting informed about the downsides of JW so they can make a balanced opinion of their own. </aside>
Do you need to go undergo an operation and don't have the resources for it? If not, do medications help? At least to help you get work done?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jQtmSZetJM
- https://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain
- https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/well/mind/john-sarno-chro...
- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/well/chronic-pain.h...
https://www.zoffness.com/resources
Curable is also a useful resource:
https://www.curablehealth.com/
How I Cured my RSI Pain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 - April 2010 (75 comments)
Lots of Sarno over the years:
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
Or to phrase it the other way: I have had some or the other sort of pain in my life, and these pains did, rather randomly leave. Would I have read a book or done some random ritual at this point in time, I might now misattribute the relief to the random ritual.
I can't know for sure. Though there is this:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/retrain...
> “For a long time, we have thought that chronic pain is due primarily to problems in the body, and most treatments to date have targeted that,” Ashar says. “This treatment is based on the premise that the brain can generate pain in the absence of injury or after an injury has healed, and that people can unlearn that pain. Our study shows it works.”
My back was feeling worse and worse until I read the book though. My partner reported the same thing. It could be a coincidence but the book was short, contained a few good lessons, and costs me nothing to recall the information in the future.
So while I agree the mind does play a part in chronic pain, it is not necessarily the only part.
>Sarno explains how your unconscious mind can provoke physical pain by manipulating your autonomic nervous system to deprive muscle tissue of oxygen. The book posits that the unconscious does this because of unresolved, unconscious stress that exists deep in your mind. By inducing physical pain, the unconscious creates a distraction that prevents this stress from becoming conscious. You can eliminate the pain by addressing the unconscious stress and becoming consciously aware that the pain is merely a distraction, thus rendering the unconscious's technique unnecessary and ineffective. The book provides specific methods for accomplishing this. I applied these methods and my pain disappeared.
Seems like it could be very effective, and something I'll keep in mind if I ever end up suffering from chronic pain.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101210060431/http://podolsky.e...
> Here is my summary of what I think is most important in Dr. Sarno's theory:
> 1. The mind and the body are linked. Classic example: the placebo effect -- your mind thinks it's gotten a pill that's gonna fix your body, and what do you know, believing that leads to your body fixing itself.
> 2. Not only can the mind-body connection lead to your body healing itself (as with placebos), it can also lead to the body harming itself, or creating pain.
> 3. Now why would your body do this? In my experience, people with chronic RSIs are, deep down, not happy.
Not terribly impressed, especially the last one, try to be happy when you have pain every minute, especially when you were happy beforehand.
From wiki:
> Sarno's most notable achievement is the development, diagnosis, and treatment of tension myoneural syndrome (TMS), which is currently not accepted by mainstream medicine.[...]
> Patients typically see their doctor when the pain is at its worst and pain chart scores statistically improve over time even if left untreated; most people recover from an episode of back pain within weeks without any medical intervention at all.
> James Rainville, a medical doctor at New England Baptist Hospital, said that while TMS treatment works for some patients, Sarno mistakenly uses the TMS diagnosis for other patients who have real physical problems.
I would ask you to read his books' reviews (of which there are thousands on Amazon). Are all of these people who were cured from many years of pain lying? Are the other commenters in this very thread lying? There is mounting evidence that Sarno's theories are, in fact, of merit--e.g. https://www.bidmc.org/about-bidmc/news/2021/09/researchers-m....
The ability for psychological expectations to cause physical pain and even physical symptoms (like those of an allergic reaction) is relatively well established science.
You didn’t address any of those. Neither did you address his own.
Even if it was only one, reasserting the author thesis, pretending to ask why he is dismissive while ignoring everything he brought is not a constructive contribution. It’s manipulative at best.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50021854-the-way-out
> Psychotherapist Alan Gordon was in grad school when he started experiencing chronic pain and it completely derailed his life. He saw multiple doctors and received many diagnoses, but none of the medical treatments helped. Frustrated with conventional pain management, he developed Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), a mind-body protocol to eliminate chronic pain. He subsequently founded the Pain Psychology Center in Los Angeles to bring his treatment to other pain sufferers.
> PRT is rooted in neuroscience, which has shown that while chronic pain feels like it's coming from the body, in most cases it's generated by misfiring pain circuits in the brain. PRT is a system of psychological techniques that rewires the brain to break out of the cycle of chronic pain.
> The University of Colorado at Boulder recently conducted a large randomized controlled study on PRT, and the results are remarkable. By the end of the study, the majority of patients were pain-free or nearly pain-free. What's more, these dramatic changes held up over time. The Way Out brings PRT to readers. It combines accessible science with a concrete, step-by-step plan to teach sufferers how to heal their own chronic pain.
Over the years I had been to 4 different physiotherapists, tried everything from regular core exercises formulated by Stuart McGill, to Infrared heat bands, climbing alot. It would always come back.
I picked up Sarno's book about 6 months ago and I approached it with a highly skeptical eye. My back pain is nearly completely gone. I have had very minor flare ups that last a day or two, but I just repeat a few mantras and it disappears the next day (whereas before the same kind of flare up would last for months).
I even had MRIs done at the start of the pain, I had multiple bulging disks and even a spine that appeared too straight. For anyone reading, don't let this discourage you. 50% of people who have had bulging disks appear in an MRI don't experience any pain at all!
Sarno's book has some pretty flaky theories behind how the pain manifests and the physiology of it all, but the overaching theme is that repressed anger / anxiety can manifest as severe back pain. Once you recognise this you can lose the pain. I never thought I would fix my back pain, but now I have.
Read the book if you're suffering!
also there are non individualistic leverage to curing the mind/body aspect
I tried a lot of meditation, hygiene and sport, but nothing had as much impact as having a daily life (commute,job,colleagues). It seems we're also very dependent on our context.
A: Read this book.
Only on HN...
OP needs to see a doctor first instead of trying to use a placebo.
This website is a text based medium. Literally the only thing that can conveyed here is information.
Books, as you are aware, can contain even more information and advice than this website.
If the person was looking for something other than information and advice, they would be looking elsewhere.
Verbal clues and facial expressions are also pieces of information, so the fact that HN is a text-based medium does not set it apart from other communication mediums only because it conveys information.
People going to HN to ask for help probably do this because they are familiar with this community, not necessarily because it is text-based and probably haven't rationalized this aspect that much.
Anyway, good luck to OP. I don't have any insight on this matter.
So, let's say I'm skeptical when it comes to the "mind body connection".
From 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12990976
From 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26120633
Nowadays I've started doing the wim hof method and it's unbelievable my body can endure 7°c bath and I don't feel that cold or fall sick taking an ice cold baths everyday even during winters. The reason I'm mentioning this is because it really seems our minds are much more capable of things for which common sense goes against.
I think like the way germs were discovered which changed our understanding of medicine, within a few decades it will also become a norm to assess patient's mental condition before checking for physical and hopefully using the mind to cure a lot of disease. I feel like a hippie saying these things but after sarno and wim hof I've become more open to the power of human mind.
(1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17982355
I read this book and it did nothing for me. I had actual medical issues, and I kept going to different doctors and physios until I found one that found the issue and solved it.
OP needs to go see a sports physio and neurologist.
He basically says that your pain is coming from stress from psychological issues and what you need to do is therapy and Journaling.
I believed this nonsense in regards to my own back pain for a long time. Ironically my pain of 5 years started to subside as I gave up these beliefs although I don't think that was causal.
I had a physical injury to my neck muscles. It turned out what I needed was years of rest and pt to that muscle system. No amount of Journaling is going to fix real injuries
Please don't dismiss Sarno's work as BS. It may have not been the right fit for you, but it is for countless other people. Sarno's work is aimed at exactly people who don't have a real biomechanical issue like yourself. It's not a one size fits all, nor is Physiotherapy or surgery.
Also in general, Sarno doesn't reccomend journaling to everyone. A simple mindset change works for most people. Worked for me.
I'm pretty skeptical of what he says, but there is definitely enough smoke that a fire is possible.
No horse in this race, by the way. I've never had chronic pain, I just think the topic is interesting.
Hang in there..
I'm glad to hear you at least are able to play video games and lurk on the net... having SOME activities and socialization is better than nothing!
That said, in terms of income... if you can do computer stuff, have you considered doing some freelance work from Upwork or similar? It's not consistent, offers no benefits, doesn't pay that great... but it's better than having no work at all. And maybe that would let you build up more of a portfolio for other companies to see.
Maybe the tech sector proper is at a glut right now, but other sectors (manufacturing, retail, etc.) still need devs & people with tech skills, and presumably the big ones are better about ADA accommodations. Maybe those are worth looking into, whether you want to go into the office or find a job that can accomodate you working from home?
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Also, work aside... it sounds like at least you have time on your hands, and have some mobility. Do you have national parks or monuments near you? Can you get an America the Beautiful National Park Access Pass? https://www.nps.gov/subjects/accessibility/access-pass.htm For a one-time $10 lifetime cost, it lets you access all of our national parks (which often have good ADA accommodations and interpretive systems) and similar recreational sites... a great way to spend a day or two away from the computer. A lot of them offer volunteer or limited part time work opportunities too. You won't get rich out of any of them, but it's a good way to feel better about the world and yourself and meet cool people to boot.
What state are you in? I know you mentioned SSDI, but just to relieve some of the stress of getting by, you should try to apply for as many public benefits as you might be eligible for (SNAP/food assistance, Medicaid [medical care], affordable connectivity program [internet], Lifeline [phone.]) With little or no income, you should get some decent support from these programs.
For getting disability support (SSDI, or SSI), you might consider getting a lawyer. You're right it can take a long time to get this, but odds go up if you have a lawyer helping you. You can also contact your local legal aid which you may qualify for based on income.
In terms of jobs I'll do some thinking and see if I can post more. Are there any activities that you can definitely do without getting stuck due to your disability? There are definitely options for flexible computer work, and also things that are more phone-oriented.
If you live within a couple miles of a cafe, then you can walk there and back everyday to get out of the cabin fever feeling, get some exercise, and change up your scenery for a boost in energy. I know a couple miles sounds like a lot, but you have to recalibrate your thinking to your current needs. When I didn't have a car, I used to walk 4 miles/day. Then I got a bike, no car payment or insurance. Then I got a car. Find your path back to what makes you happy. Chances are, that doesn't require a car.
Depression: It sounds like you've gone down the clinical route, so there's no need to cover that. From there, I'm not sure what your aspirations were in the startup world, but you might have to be honest with yourself about what is realistic and where your skills are now. Again, recalibrate your thinking and take it one step at a time. Your immediate task, besides your health, is to get a job that you can do.
Again, remote jobs are a plenty. What are your skills? Keep applying, keep working, eventually you'll find a remote job were the expectations are low and you can keep up. If we knew what your skills are, maybe there's even someone here who needs a part time person with those skills. Avoid startups and consulting, those are going to be high demand and that's not right for you right now. You've got this.
Can you code? If so please email me and I may be able to give you some work paid per deliverable. You can work on your own schedule without pressure. Nothing huge, just enough to get you started.
Email in profile
I'm not the OP, but I'm in a somewhat similar situation, and yes I can code, but my useful hours are very limited by chronic fatigue.
Do you think that what you're describing is generalizable ? I mean do you think that there are enough people who could use the kind of work you are describing so that it could benefit the, probably very many of us, who are in the OP's situation, rather than just be a one off for one person ?
I read a Priceonomics article entitled "What it's Like to Fail" and it really moved me during a low point in my life. The subject of the article wrote over 100 episodes of the TV show Roseanne, and wound up living in a van. The article, and the book he wrote to earn money, put a lot of emphasis on writing jobs; gig jobs. He wrote, wrote, and wrote more and slowly pulled himself back up.
https://priceonomics.com/what-its-like-to-fail/
Also, when I volunteered with the homeless I found the mormons to be an incredible resource. Most people don't know this, but the Mormon church is VERY giving and expects nothing in return. If you live near a larger city, the church has stores of food and supplies, and produce food to give to those in need.
Call your local mormon church, talk to the Bishop or a Missionary, and they will be slap happy over the moon to help. At the very least they can help supply food and other necessities.
Your current assets and your psychology are two different things. Every improvement you can wring out with the latter, could be the piece of strength you need to deal with the other. Seek out any way you can to build up mentally bit by bit. Even little things if they can make a difference.
I’m no expert on this stuff but I wanted to let you know you’re not alone out there.