HN Explorer

Ask HN: Anyone tried development using an Oculus?

44 points by holistio ↗ HN
A few months ago I bought an Oculus Quest 2 with the vague idea that I'm going to set up a development environment inside it.

It is a bit heavier than I expected, and while I had some fun with Beat Saber, I have not used the thing for work.

I mostly do web development - Nuxt on the frontend, Rails on the backend. My standard development environment is Visual Studio Code.

I'm curious if anyone found a place for the Quest in their work processes.

86 comments

[ 2.3 ms ] story [ 147 ms ] thread
LewisVerstappen
Yeah I can't keep it on for more than an hour. Otherwise I start getting headaches and feeling nauseous.
D13Fd
For gaming, I initially had motion sickness and headaches, but after a few months of use they went away entirely. But I imagine it’s different for everyone.
VoidWhisperer
I used a tool called Immersed[1] for a bit. It is neat and potentially useful, as from what I remember you can create more virtual monitors than you have actual monitors, but the novelty wore off and I stopped, since I wasn't particularly more productive.

[1]: https://immersed.com/

ornel
>you can create more virtual monitors than you have actual monitors

Only on Windows, but you can trick Immersed on Linux to create virtual monitors for you by using an HDMI dummy dongle

kylecordes
It's not particularly practical for this at the current oculus display resolution. Sure, there are tools discussed in the thread here with virtual monitors etc, but we'll have to wait for a future generation of hardware for those virtual monitors to have anywhere near the resolution of an actual monitor.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
telesilla
Our tests concluded the same and we gave up for now. Works pretty well while tethered but you have to drop quality for wireless support, and what's the fun wearing one while sitting down? Looking forward for future iterations.
neighborlynook
Its definitely a different experience, but using Immersed was the best. You can set portals to your keyboard and have extra portals as well (like that spot on the table you put your drink).

To help with ergonomics, I would recommend a Halo style strap and a fan facial interface to help with longer sessions. If you were glasses, or computer glasses normally I generally recommend getting the Occulus prescription lens.

I would recommend at least trying it, as mentioned it won't be for everyone, but it is definitely a cool experience. With a bit more innovation at the ergonomics, I can definitely see this being a thing in the future.

krautsourced
No. And I sold all the VR devices I had over time rather quickly again. Once the novelty wears off, they just became supremely impractical. For gaming it required the shuffling of furniture. For anything else, neither the resolution nor comfort are there. Even worse if you wear glasses. And in the summer time... think diving goggles, only inverted.
Macha
If you do require glasses for VR, for anyone who wants to stick with it, I strongly recommend getting prescription lenses for your headset.

The most common form is just another lens that clips on top of the VR lens so it's not something that will require disassembling your expensive VR headset.

This solves the fogging up problem in my experience, along with light leak from thicker arms on glasses pushing foam covers away, scratches on lens from glass/headset contact and also the fact that I broke a pair of glasses wearing them inside a VR headset.

mathgeek
Alternatively: look into contacts if you want a more general purpose solution.
Macha
Fair, I've my own reasons for not wearing contacts
noir_lord
> For gaming it required the shuffling of furniture.

Depends on the type of game, I play flight sims, elite dangerous, no mans sky and project cars 2 - no need to shuffle furniture with those.

koheripbal
There are actually no quality games that really require you to stand.

I have a dream that we'll see a good quality dungeon crawler I can play coop locally with the kids, that's immersive enough to warrant standing, but I don't see it happening.

bayofpigs
Haha, no. Half Life Alyx, The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners, Thrill of the Fight, Beat Saber, Audica, Dance Central VR, Fallout 4 VR, Superhot VR, and so many more.
noir_lord
Honestly that's true, the closest I've found is PavlovVR which is a lot of fun but it's not an AAA quality game.

That said as someone who loves space/flight and driving games VR is an unalloyed win for me.

Krssst
There is also VTOL VR which is a flight sim/game that uses the VR controllers and put all controls in the VR space so no need to have an HOTAS lying around.

For other sims I have to set up the HOTAS on my desk which leads to a little bit of shuffling around.

talkingtab
Perhaps a related or unrelated question. What is the easiest Oculus development environment. I want a very simple "hello world" thing. I'm an experienced web/backend developer. I just want 4 avatars in a room who can see each other and talk to each other. I don't care if the avatars are spheres or boxes, just that they can sell "Hello World".

My current best guess is Unity, but perhaps there is something simpler to start with?

DJBunnies
Concurrent user streaming and hello world have a bit of distance between them.
needle0
VR development is very video-gamey, so tools used for videogame development is used the most: Unity, Unreal Engine, bespoke engines written in C++, Godot, etc.

The default Oculus browser supports WebXR, so if you want a more webby tech stack you can start building using stuff like A-Frame or Mozilla Hubs. Though, be aware that whatever you can run in web-based VR is still pretty much second-class citizen status, with heavy performance/usability restrictions.

m00dy
It is far from being a part of work processes. It just needs better material. But, I also suggest playing online FPS games in Quest 2. I think that's the future for FPS games. It promises and somehow delivers a better experience.
jmartin2683
No, because the devices are awful at rendering text.
amelius
Can it even render people well?
spywaregorilla
Text needs to be really clearly defined and rapidly updated to accommodate head motion without being blurry. Slight offsets make it unreadable.

Rendering people has a different set of challenges. Skin and hair and eyes have weird textures. Facial animations are difficult to capture. But its more of a solved problem than text.

amelius
I've looked around for images of Oculus rendering people, and perhaps I'm not looking in the right places, but so far I couldn't find anything that looks any better than the average window-dressing mannequin. Based on this, I wouldn't call it a solved problem.
spywaregorilla
It's not solved, but it's just not a particularly VR specific problem, and current tech is pretty good. The oculus doesn't have top of the line graphics capabilities and games tend not to go for photorealistic people. We can handcraft moments to jump outside the uncanny valley imo. We cannot do it dynamically at run time in a game. We can do a good enough job that I don't think it should matter and VR will catch up. It likely will not be good enough to mimic intimate facial movements. So... you know it's a goal setting problem mostly.

To a large extent we could make some photorealistic humans in VR, under some definitions, but we don't.

prawn
There was a guy on HN within the last year who was more or less F/T in VR. He posted about it and answered questions. I'm not sure if either of these are related but fine tuning searches might track them down:

  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28678041
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29978036
amelius
No, because I don't want to share my source code or anything I watch with Oculus/Meta. It is worse than a smart TV.
immrammc
One headset I’ve heard of that is aimed at more office focused usage is the SimulaVR[1]. However, it’s still a work in progress and you’d have to preorder.

[1]: https://simulavr.com/

koheripbal
It's hard to really see a significant value add here for work efficiency.

The screen(s) and mouse/kb aren't the current productivity bottleneck for people.

anonymoushn
I really would benefit from having a handful of dedicated workshops for specific types of development, and VR seems like a plausible way to fake this.
d0mine
Large monitors are expensive, they take space, not portable.
georgewsinger
We made a post arguing for some of the benefits of VR computers in our weekly update blog.[1]

TLDR: they provide unlimited screens of any size, improve work focus & immersion, are usable outdoors (no laptop glare), improve privacy (no one around you can snoop your screen), and their compact design frees up desk space. They also promote better posture and freedom of movement: with a VR computer you can change positions, sit up, lean back, stand, lie down, or even walk while you compute.

[1] https://simulavr.com/blog/why-vrcs-are-better-than-pcs-and-l...

georgewsinger
Thanks for the shout-out :] It's true the Simula One is a work in progress, but we try to be transparent about our progress in the form of weekly blog updates.

Our headset boards were recently assembled, so we're expecting review units within days or weeks.[1] Our software is also demoable on GitHub for HTC Vive & Valve Index platforms.[2]

[1] https://simulavr.com/blog/first-batch-of-boards/

[2] https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
jmpman
Was thinking something similar, but my glasses make it impractical. A company now offers prescription inserts, which I plan to order. https://www.vr-wave.store/products/oculus-quest-prescription...

However, even with my glasses on, the resolution is about 1/4 of what’s needed to perfectly render text. It’s also too heavy, and too hot for more than an hour.

But I’m interested in your experience.

tomxor
I have a quest2, I don't think it's anywhere near comfortable enough yet for prolonged use such as development. I've tried watching films in it and even that can get a bit too uncomfortable.

As you say they are still a bit heavy, it's tolerable for an hour of gaming but not work. Now that VR is mainstream I'm sure this will gradually improve, it would be nice to have something almost as light as a pair of glasses or maybe more realistically headphone weight, that would also make it feel a lot more convenient to take on and off without all the head strap paraphernalia. Might be worth revisiting the idea in a decade.

asiachick
this person said they love it

https://medium.com/immersedteam/working-from-orbit-39bf95a6d...

jbellis
How does this reconcile with the other comments saying that the Oculus resolution isn't high enough?
mbreese
I tried it a few times with an Oculus 1 and 2. The lower resolution isn’t terrible. You can zoom to a level where the size of text is quite readable. But that’s the trade off. Nearly infinite screen sizes, but zoomed in to make it legible.
blululu
Yes and I would strongly recommend not doing this. The display resolution is too low and the motion blur, VAC, and other idiosyncratic VR problems all mean that you will most likely get a nasty headache. I would recommend buying another monitor instead.
Jyaif
For fun I did with Horizon Workrooms, and it was quite the mind blowing experience. My laptop's screen was streamed to the headset and looked larger than IRL. I was sitting on my couch in my living room, and noticed an unexpected benefit of VR: no more screen glare from the sun behind me!

VR headsets are not yet a replacement for IRL screens, but I can see that happening one day.

pomatic
I have used nReal glasses for dev work - they are incredibly light, and are ideal for use outside in situations where a laptop screen would be washed out, or perhaps when travelling, especially if privacy is an issue. The audio is pretty good too, as their intended purpose is really to watch films. Plugs and plays with many, but not all devices. (Hilarious aside: the windows device driver identifies as something similar to 'US Naval research 7" screen'?!). ETA: Can optionally be fitted with spectacle lenses.
gentleman11
I bought an oculus for vr dev a few years ago but gradually got creeped out by Facebook having cameras in everyone’s homes. VR right now, especially due to oculus, is a surveillance horror story waiting to happen. I sold my headset
29athrowaway
Why would you buy a display device that requires registration?

As a consumer, you have to enforce limits and stop buying consumer goods that are against your best interest.

You deserve what you tolerate, and if you buy a product that you don't own, and you get mistakenly locked out of your account and end up with a bricked product, then you deserve it.

What's next? Food packaging that requires registration? If I am buying a product then I am the owner. Private property as a right must be protected.

bitwize
Personal property must be protected. Private ownership of the means of production can go fuck itself.
29athrowaway
That's marxism. A rebranded form of slavery where the entire population are slaves to to a totalitarian government.
sybilleek
It's pretty easy, blender to design with, export to unity add your sdk (android will be one of them considering quest 2 is android 10 and quest 1 is android 8) Unity is C# and can export to Visual Studio. That should give ya your design engine right there.
AdammadA
I got an Oculus Rift CV1 In 2016 and started developing VR interactive sims using the Unity Engine and found the dev process tedious. There are many times you need to wear the HMD and take it off, look at code, then into unity UI and back to 3D modelling app etc. It's a slow repetitive pattern.

As others have mentioned, the eyes / camera motion sensors and telemetry tracking HMD felt like invasion of my privacy too.

Everytime i finished a session of dev for VR or playing some VR games I would use home made cardboard caps to cover the motion sensors and disconnect the HMD after use. It was a chore to do this every time though.

When facebook added their first firmware update to my Rift, It became sluggish to use. I returned it and was refunded. I then bought a 3D projector and use face tracking camera instead so i can look around still like you do in VR and have a higher fidelity experience playing racing sims etc. Also for space games, the big screen feels like I'm using a view screen on the starship enterprise.

Its convenient, It's more social too because others can share the experience. For now this suits my needs. Hopefully one day i will look forward to getting a true next gen VR HMD and hopefully one that competes with meta on pricing and without the privacy compromise.

iKlsR
Did the same in 2016 - 2019 using libovr and qt with opengl and had the same experience. We worked mostly in the viewport however and only did vr sessions as needed as for the most part it was the same when iterating. I also believe it messed up my eyes a bit as it can be quite straining for prolonged periods.

I owned quite a few headsets but I got rid of them over time, the novelty wears off quickly and it's a good way to captivate people new to it but the setup quickly gets cumbersome and impractical for day to day use unless you have a dedicated space for it.

georgewsinger
If privacy is an issue for you, there are non-Facebook/open-source-based headsets being developed out there :]

> I bought a 3D projector and use face tracking camera instead so i can look around still like you do in VR and have a higher fidelity experience playing racing sims etc.

Is this a custom setup? It sounds pretty cool / you should consider making a video showing it off.

AdammadA
Added instructions to my parent comment.
bradneuberg
That projector/face tracker setup sounds very cool, as another poster mentioned you should do a writeup or video on it.
AdammadA
Added instructions to my parent comment.
AdammadA
Couple of you asked how to set up headtracking. So here goes!

Head tracking 6DOF on compatible trackIR games. Should be able to work also with none trackIR games using joystick emulation to map to the head tracker.

So this is an entry level tracking method and will hopefully cost you nothing to try as long as you have...

A webcam or phone with a camera.

Ok next Grab this!

AiTrack Software for webcam facetracking.

https://github.com/AIRLegend/aitrack

and this!

Open Track, Headtracking Software download.

https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/releases

That's basically it.

How to use :

Install both software follow instructions in the links provided above.

There are ways to improve the experience by using higher refresh rate cameras A cheap way is to buy a PSEYE ( old playstation camera ) for $5 - $10 Which has 120hz refresh rate for smoother tracking. You can also take it antother step forward and mod the camera by removing the IR filter lens from the camera to get superior tracking. I've personally not needed to do this with my PS Eye camera because it works ok once you've tweaked the above software settings.

You can create a more immersive experience by using a 3D display/projector and using reshade https://reshade.me/ (Just make sure to tick the 3d depth shader when installing). Now your flatscreen games are 3D with 6DOF headtracking.

dbrueck
I've done it some and it shows promise but for me personally the tech is at the progressing-but-not-quite-there-yet stage.

Regarding weight: the headsets do need to become lighter, but right now the larger issue is the imbalance of the weight. If you attach an external battery on the back of the head strap*, it will greatly reduce neck strain from prolonged usage, and overall it actually feels lighter.

* BTW, for the Quest 2 specifically you should look around for a 3rd party replacement head strap because they can provide a better fit. Search for "bobovr" on Amazon to see the one I got.