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Ahh, Adobe.. they have earnings for billions and billions and they can not improve their software suites on performance..
Yeah, kind of wonder what would have happened had Adobe instead pulled a pair of engineers aside and said, "Hey, we want you two to create a Figma rival. You'll have no directives from up above, have all the freedom to write the app how you want. You can work where you want, when you want ... if you need more specific expertise on the team you can take who you like. The first version you roll out doesn't have to have Figma parity, just has to be something you're proud of. We'll put it out as beta ... it can stay beta for as long as you feel it needs to be. We're hoping you can get us to have a Figma-like presence, maybe Figma-parity within three years or so?"

I suspect Adobe are too behemoth these days. A scrappy start-up/skunk-works within Adobe might have been able to pull off some nice code and for a lot less than $20B.

My understanding, pieced together from conversations over the years with Adobe employees, is that they do try to do this, and they don’t have success with it. I have no idea if they’ve done something like this with a Figma-like goal, though.
They basically did exactly this with XD and it started with some good ideas and then basically just fizzled out.
Why improve your software when Apple can just release better hardware? \s
good purchase.
Good for Figma founders, they'll make a lot of money, bad for Figma users and design authoring tool in general suffering from the lack of competition in the space for the last 25 years.

I've seen what happened to Macromedia products after Adobe bought them.

Yeah, over the last five years illustrator has added no useful new features (at least for my use cases) and XD has wandered around with no clear direction. Meanwhile Figma has been a rocketship of features that massively improve workflows. I’m worried they’ll sink into the Adobe pit of complacent mediocrity if they’re bought out.
As much as I LOVE to shit on Adobe (they leaked my CC info) they surprised me recently with one new feature I've been begging for years - bullet points and ordered lists in text fields. Ever since Illustrator became an alternative to InDesign for smaller print jobs, it's been my core missing feature.

Although, in the grand scheme of things, Illustrator has been really left behind and apps like InDesign or XD have seen next to zero updates in years.

End of the line for Adobe XD if this happens?

I like Figma a lot, but I'm glad I have an old copy of Sketch to fall back on. Adobe and its forever subscription model will eventually get applied to Figma.

> Adobe and its forever subscription model will eventually get applied to Figma.

Figma is already a “forever subscription”. It’s a SaaS subscription.

I meant the free tier.
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Adobe consolidates. Where is the Blender equivalent for Photoshop? I don't think GIMP is the answer, but it seems like Photoshop is ripe for an open source competitor in the category. I just don't know of any realistic candidates.
For image manipulation is, nonen omen, GIMP.

For drawing I would say Krita.

This is an irrelevant comment.
So is this.
The original comment is the kind of comment that just derails actual conversation about the topic. Try to stay on topic.
Use Keynote with a custom canvas size. You can do literally anything in Keynote.

https://vimeo.com/100377108

To repost their comment:

“ In my work, there's constant discussion about which is the best and hottest new design tool to use. I’ve tried many of them, but in the end I still keep coming back to Keynote. It’s easy to learn and use, swapping assets is a breeze (using media placeholder), and most complex animations can be tested with Magic Move (the secret sauce to it all). Producing animations can span a range of fidelities; I can produce all the assets in Keynote, or I can copy out of Illustrator or drag and drop from Sketch (how seamless this works puts a smile on my face every time). As an interaction or visual designer, if you’re not using Keynote to test and bring your work to life, then I think you should start now! At least I hope this little experiment inspires you to try.”

It was photopea.com, but he went to a subscription model too. Free with ads, but they're pretty distracting to me.

Affinity products are decent, but they're not free, it's a one time purchase.

There's Krita, which is good, but I really want something that mirrors the traditional tool layout of Photoshop. Both affinity and Krita do their own thing which is tough when you've been using Photoshop for 25 years.

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This is a blatant effort at maintaining a monopoly.
Yeah, as a Figma and Adobe consumer this feels like an intentional effort to limit my choice and enable Adobe creative cloud to continue to be more-or-less the only realistic option for design work.

I’m perennially frustrated that I live in an era with nearly-dead antitrust.

Adobe will be facing an existential crisis trying to maintain this monopoly vs AI generated content, AI augmented content generation tools and cheap image and layout apps.
Adobe should have died a decade ago.
Adobe has an excellent team of machine learning experts who are very well aware of what's going on. I attend their ML lecture series regularly and see speakers from FB, Google, OpenAI, universities, etc, especially on recent advances in large language models and their application to zero-shot learning and text to image generation.
Irrelevant, if that doesn't lead to product innovation. Historically, it hasn't.
> By bringing powerful capabilities from Adobe’s imaging, photography, illustration, video, 3D and font technologies into the Figma platform, we can benefit all customers involved in the product design process, from designers to product managers to developers. Figma’s community will ultimately have a continuous user experience across ideation, screen layout, interaction design and content editing, allowing product designers and their stakeholders to operate at a whole new level.

smart objects and cloud libraries, just kill me now

If true, congratulations for Figma founders, and a bad day for designers that were looking for a way to escape from Adobe.

I don’t think that in the long term this will give Figma as an ecosystem any benefit — unless Adobe will keep it separate from the main Creative Cloud.

This reminds me of the Trello acquisition.

As a loyal Figma user I’m pretty sceptical of the future. Hope to be wrong.

UPDATE: Looks like it is indeed true… https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2022/Adobe-to-Acqui...

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Big win for the Figma team. Big loss for consumers who have benefitted from the competitive market. I really hope this incentives Krita, Ink, Gimp or other OSS to focus more on UI design features.

I think there is a value for Adobe to add Figma to CC, Photoshop can fully focus on photo manipulation while Figma (perhaps merged with XD?) will be target UI designers.

> I really hope this incentives Krita, Ink, Gimp or other OSS to focus more on UI design features.

A comment in another thread mentioned Penpot https://penpot.app/

Yeah I just saw a new post for the tool. It's currently #1

Never heard of it before, but I'll explore it.

As others will no doubt call out, Affinity have been my main-stay graphics apps for some years now. Affinity Design, Photo, Publisher....

I refuse to pay a monthly fee for something I use on a scattershot basis.

Me as well, I refuse to give Adobe any money if I can use Affinity's products.
I used Photoshop for 20 years and really tried to switch to Affinity, but holy cow it's so extremely different. I tried finding a good "Affinity for Photoshop Users" resource and wasn't ever able to before giving up on it and using photopea (which is great).
UPDATE n. 2: Dylan Field (CEO of Figma) has addressed these kind of concerns on their public disclore of the fact: https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/

Citing him:

> Adobe is deeply committed to keeping Figma operating autonomously and I will continue to serve as CEO, reporting to David Wadhwani.

As others have said, there’s really a missing OSS version out there that can compete feature-by-feature with Sketch / Figma / XD. Layout engine capabilities are the biggest missing feature in competitors.

>[ACQUISITOR] is deeply committed to keeping [STARTUP] operating autonomously and I will continue to serve as CEO, reporting to [NEW OVERLORD]

You won't believe what happens next.

It’s like there’s some sort of playbook on this
same thing happened to us, our ceo also sent us a similar email. He bounced 3 months later to enjoy his billions i guess.
Phew, I was worried for a second, because of [NEW OVERLORD]'s persistent track record of killing babies. So glad to hear that [STARTUP] CEO thinks it's going to be fine, in a public statement nonetheless! More than anyone, he must have done his due diligence.
Every time one of these "statements" happens I'm reminded of what Palmer Luckey said about Oculus when Facebook bought them, or what Jan Koum said about WhatsApp. How long before Dylan leaves to "spend time with family"?
Exactly, he is contractually obligated to keep the status quo for the time being.

After some years and the clauses have lapsed and Adobe have done what they always do, the criticism will come.

I'm sure he knows it as well, but hundreds of millions of dollars will shut anyone up for a period of time.

I hear "take time off for health" often.
I'm just going to assume he'll leave Adobe in one year to move on to his next adventure.
He must know his statement is pointless. How many times have we seen big aquisitions with promises not to mess with things, only for it to happen a year or two down the line.

You don't drop 20bn on something to let it sit at it's current level.

They'll be integrating creative cloud and making it part of the subscription. I dare say they'll close the loophole on the free plan as well that lets you have unlimited designs.

> Like many of you, I grew up using Adobe software and it was a critical part of my personal creative journey.

Yes, it was the part of your journey that made you realize it was a company that made bad design software, and you devoted your life to making an alternative to it. For me, it was the part of my journey I was happy to leave behind to use your alternative.

I think it's okay if he wants to make $20B, but don't spin it! A blog post like this makes me lose trust, it doesn't reassure me.

I'm a long time user of Trello. After the acquisition, Atlassian foisted their login system on Trello users, but otherwise didn't substantially degrade the product.

The integration with other Atlassian services improved. There is a variety of plug-ins now, and new ways to display the data for paid plans.

Do you feel different? Any specific examples of what became worse?

Ugh, I'm still sad about what happened to Macromedia Fireworks after Adobe takeover. Have been boycotting their products ever since.
Same here, best design software i’ve ever used, especially for web stuff. Sketch came close, although I haven’t used it in a while.
Sketch actually surpassed Fireworks in every aspect. After many many years with Fireworks, I was astonished by Sketch how they fixed every little thing that bothered me in Fireworks, and did it just right.
I’d put the odds at about 95% that Adobe will ruin Figma with bloat, 14 different “Creative Cloud” background processes, and hostile pricing models within 5 years.

This is huge news for Sketch.

However, to be honest, this is the type of acquisition that should be blocked IMO. Adobe is literally acquiring a direct competitor here.

To me the consumer harm is pretty clear. Instead of a more competent org (Figma) growing further to disrupt more of Adobe’s business, we’re going to be stuck with Adobe forever.

Great outcome for the founders and investors in Figma, terrible outcome for consumers.

Totally agree I don’t get why antitrust gave the okay to this…
Did they? Typically, the intent to merge comes before any anti-trust investigation.
Probably because anti-trust enforcement only seems to get involved when two already huge companies are involved.
Nah, they just have different rules for different huge tech companies.

FTC is blocking Meta’s acquisition of Within, the maker of a VR fitness app - an extremely niche product. Meanwhile Microsoft and Adobe seem confident that they can close on deals to buy Activision and Figma.

can antitrust prevent public companies from acquiring private companies?
yes. Whether they're public or private doesn't change anything about how competitive they are.
The antitrust agencies in the United States (FTC and DOJ) do not proactively give approval for companies to merge. After official merger filings have been made (which they have not in this case), the FTC or DOJ have a process in which they gather evidence and determine whether they have grounds to challenge the proposed merger. [1]

[1] https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...

They haven't decided anything yet
Anyone here can lodge this simple form and I'd encourage you to do so. Especially if you think this merger will substantially lesson competition and stifle innovation lodge a complaint: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation

At a minimum, they will investigate this and make inquiries (typically within months) if they see a high volume of complaints.

See https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... For more info on the relevant law :)

1. Here is the email:

antitrust@ftc.gov

2. It should include something similar the following (maybe a lawyer here, could help):

a. Adobe acquiring Figma may violate anti-trust laws. b. These are the 2 dominate players in web design apps. There is very little competition elsewhere. c. I am a user and once they merge there is no viable competitor.

Sent, thank you. I also made sure to mention the "consumer harm" (keyword) of forcing consumers to engage with Adobe's predatory pricing model ("annual subscription billed monthly" bs)
Sketch only works on macOS, though.
Good news for Apple too.
Yeah, I feel Apple should acquire Sketch
Haven’t thought of that and you are 100% right.

That said, knowing Apple, they probably have a great long term vision on graphical UI/UX design tooling that will either be great when it finally comes into being in 8 years, like M1, or we’ll never see it at all.

I think it will happen, to combine with new Freeform.
Sketch cloud displays sketch designs quite well. I wonder if they'll be able to turn it into a web editor eventually...
> This is huge news for Sketch.

Why, do they have an online editor yet?

As a cto/admin/manager/hiring person: Sketch is worthless for me because I don't have a Mac. But because of that, my company does not use it: despite designers working on macOS, if I can't run it to look at their work and actively comment/collaborate with them, it's not a useful workflow. Therefore instead we hire people familiar with Figma (sadly, because I wanted to avoid giving Adobe money. Well, fuck, eh?)

They are hiring for people with WASM/Emscripten experience so I'd say there's something planned, even if only a more sophisticated viewer...
Let's hope. Sketch always seemed to be amazingly well-crafted software. I'd love an online version.
> Why

Because statistics. If you make one option less appealing (which is the presumption) all competitors will indirectly benefit, statistically, for various reasons, none of which might resonate with your specific personal needs.

I'm betting they will leave it alone, at least for a while. I'm sure the C suite at adobe is not blind to their reputation and they know that if they start tacking on "Adobe" features to Figma, user growth will stall out.

Everyone is referencing the Macromedia purchase but I would argue that it was a very different kind of purchase. With that Adobe spent $3.4B acquiring them, in Figma's case they paid $20B. I could see how Adobe is willing to throw away $3.4B to kill their competition but I'm not sure they would be willing to do that to a $20B purchase.

If anything they keep is exactly the same, kill Adobe XD, and rename Figma to Adobe XD.

Oh sure they would. Have you ever dealt with the stupidity in the C-suite of a large corporation?
Big company executives do not see the world the way you do.

Creative Cloud alone has at least 5x the users of Figma. I have no idea how to even calculate all the users of all Adobe products. I guarantee that a lot of people at Adobe see Figma as just adorable, but not really, you know, a product. Some people at Adobe get it and are hoping to revolutionize their company with new blood, but… they probably won’t succeed.

At big companies that have captured a large portion of the market, they are usually not interested in “disrupting” themselves. Steve Jobs was a rarity. There are far more attainable revenue and careers to be made optimizing the existing revenue streams.

If killing Figma entirely made Creative Cloud revenue go up by a few percentage points that would be worth it for them. Even if the acquisition has negative value the people who pioneered it have more influence in their company, and an achievement that advances their career narrative.

They may tell themselves they’re going to integrate Figma, and some people are going to definitely try, but if that doesn’t work out that’s probably fine.

I'm an Adobe employee, and I think that this is most likely what will happen. I think maybe the transition to web-first wasn't going as planned. I think that Adobe's going to move their features into Figma (integration with creative cloud assets, easy importing/exporting to other programs, collaboration workflows) and close out XD.
Fair enough. Preferred to stay clear of Adobe and their trash subscription model so naturally I feel some resentment. Was enjoying the competition and thought Figma was well ahead of Adobe to be honest.

I hope the deal fall through NGL

> "Was enjoying the competition and thought Figma was well ahead of Adobe to be honest."

They were… That's why Adobe bought 'em.

Well that’s the end of Figma then. It was fantastic while it lasted.
Although it’s still great software I’m stopping usage today because a) I refuse to support adobe and b) I’m confident the software will progressively get much worse, so any investment today is a waste of time I should spend finding and learning something else.

Is there a blender of tools like this?

Inkscape, penpot and/or maybe gimp afaik.
Inkscape is unusable sorry. It can’t support any of my workflows. The only real alternative for Adobe at the time being is Affinity
None of these solve the same problems and they have the usual problems of free software. Grandious ideas but godawful UX and no interest to fix them.
Common things are so obtusely buried in these applications. It's extraordinary the decisions they make.

Maybe there should be a telematics tool for gtk that tracks when a user is clicking around looking for something and treats it like a bug report after a program crash.

Some Non-Obtrusive (very important) dialog says something like "looking for something? Tell us what and where you're expecting it so we can add it".

There's no reason at all things can't be in 2 or 3 places instead of like View / Interface Options / General / Advanced / ... or wherever the hell someone decided to place it.

We have „figma for xyz” but more often it should be „blender for xyz”

Would be awesome if all software tools were gravitating towards the non-profit financed-by-big-stakeholders model like blender is.

It’s not free, but Sketch is a fantastic (also MacOS native) alternative.
I love Sketch but macOS is no longer the OS I spend the most times in, which is Linux and Windows. I'd love for Sketch to be cross-platform, I'd buy one license per year just to support them.

So my only option was Figma and now... Now what? Damn this sucks.

Check out Framer. It's actually a really nice UI/UX and prototyping tool, but is pretty opinionated in how you set up your file (IMO). I used it a lot when I was freelancing because it gave me a little more power than Sketch did, at the time, and was more mature than Figma. They are the one product I know of currently that has web, Windows and Mac clients.
This ^ is what's lead my small sample size of companies to move from Sketch to Figma. The focus on cross platform and ease of use that Figma had really helped drive adoption across a wide range of company sizes which is probably why this is such a logical acquisition for Adobe.
Lunacy from Icons8 is cross-platform and Sketch compatible.
Thanks for mentioning.
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Ok it is the multiple user editing that people liked so much about figma. Ok that makes sense. Ignore me.

A textbook example of capitalism squashing innovation.
It's ironic to think that VCs, who enable a company to start and build, are ultimately invested in its demise.
Collaboration is an interesting choice of words
Will get bloated and overpriced in no time.
That’s too bad. Good for the individuals and groups benefiting from it, I am happy for you, but I expect Adobe will ruin this product for users. Especially since this is an anti-competitive acquisition.
Oh hell no. Adobe is where software goes to die. Which is big shame because Figma has been great, and had serious potential to turn into the first WYSIWYG tool that would actually generate code you'd want to use. But Macromedia software was also great, and now it's mostly non-existent. I'd love for this to turn out different, but I have very low expectations.
> Adobe is where software goes to die.

After EA acquiring Westwood, Macromedia is the second biggest let-down of a sale in the software industry in my book. Perhaps Skype comes close.

Are there any examples when an acquisition actually led to improved value for the users rather than ruined or straight killed the product?
Github. Apple buying Workflow to build it into the OS as Shortcuts.
Why should they? Acquisition today means: you have managed to become a threat to us, so we buy you so that this threat disappears.

I just hope Adobe doesn't buy Affinity.

Buying Afilinity would 100% lead to antitrust.
Github gained actions, sponsors etc. and keeps getting more new features. Whatsapp got E2E chats and group video calls and handles communications for a huge amount of people.
WhatsApp also got significantly worse over time: copycat features like stories which add bloat in an effort to boost "engagement", businesses using WhatsApp for the thing we all knew was eventually going to happen i.e. ads over WhatsApp, and the new privacy policy and deeper integration with facebook nobody asked for.
Stories is in a separate tab. I just ignore it most of the time and never post anything myself.

Accessing businesses on Whatsapp is kinda nice and convenient. I can enter a restaurant's phone number and see their menu easily. I also use Whatsapp to access bank statements which is super fast and easy compared to the bank's own app.

As for the privacy policy, it's like WinRAR. You just close the popup and forget about it. I've been closing the policy popup since months and don't even notice it much.

You're just lucky that business haven't started using WhatsApp to send you unsolicited ads. This is becoming more and more common in India - I received no less than three messages this month from businesses I've never used.
LOL I use WhatsApp daily and I completely forgot about Stories. I just checked, just one of my hundred contacts on there had a recent story update. What a load of nonsense.

Then Facebook tried to do the same with Instagram.

I think Github has held up pretty well.
Compared to anything bought by Adobe, sure, but it's not really doing all that impressive compared to Gitlab.
I disagree. GitLab is a lot better and has many more features, but GitHub has managed to close the gap significantly. Before MS bought them they weren't even close to being close and had stagnated for years, and now there's a bunch of major new features (mostly playing catch-up, the only differentiator they have is Copilot), at the expense of stability.
MS's acquisition of Github seems to be going okay, and has arguably increased user value. It's hard to say what MS is getting out of the deal, though; the mistrust of MS runs deeply given its history, so the biggest strikes in this deal are speculation about what MS is doing with the massive trove of Github developer and code-over-time data. IMHO the longer MS owns Github without hurting or exploiting its users, they are restoring lost trust with devs, but there are lots of devs who can/will never really trust MS or anything it touches (which TBH is a pretty safe bet).
Powerpoint, Google Earth and Android are three that I use all the time and instantly spring to mind.

edit: Hotmail can arguably be on that list. Revit should probably also qualify

Does YouTube count? I know it's had it's controversy but it's still miles better than if it hadn't been acquired.
And here I was, having a good day, when you had to remind me of EA's atrocities...

Kane Lives!

Not many people can believe this (How many C&C gamers are on HN after all?) but I'm still pissed about it to this day. I could replace even the Google Reader, but not the fun I had playing the games from Westwood Studios.
I completely understand; C&C and Need for Speed were an important part of my youth and to see them treated so badly has left me with quite the poor opinion of EA. But for some reason, their shitty way of running the game business seems to work out, and they just keep going. I just hope they won't kill Battlefield as well, though with recent installments they certainly seem to be trying.
IMO, Skype was on the way out either way. The P2P model it used only really made sense on desktop computers running most of the day with unmetered cable broadband, which is a very limited market, vs. the increasing percentage of mobile (and laptop, and desktop-but-4G/5G-connected) users that were a net negative on Skype's resources.

So Skype was looking at a major rewrite, and building up massive server infrastructure, both of which needed lots and lots of cashflow that Skype's business model just couldn't generate.

I doubt any other company taking over Skype could've avoided ruining it.

They could have kept the UI the same, also the device ecosystem.

Why does software industry feel a heavy need to update the front-end when the back-end changes? That defeats the purpose of separating them!

Skype was already dying. Are you remembering correctly?
On the flipside, this opens up the space for a new upstart with an innovative take on design tooling, just like how Figma came up.
with figma’s adoption as a standard, we gave up cyclical innovation for continuous improvement, and have a trade where technical skills are highly transferrable and highly teachable. the cost of bad stewardship of figma won’t just be the loss of a tool, it’ll be the breakdown of a whole layer of the digital design practice.

seeing that adoption of framer has been so poor they have to lean on web export as a selling point, i don’t think we’ll get another tool as powerful as figma that young designers are as willing to spend five years mastering and collectively adopt as a standard—-more likely the design tools ecosystem will look like the front-end frameworks ecosystem.

do you remember what it was like in the field ten years ago? even with promising upstart sketch in play, it was unlike anything i deal with today, and it sucked

It sounds like a "market opportunity" for someone with graphics coding skills. I hear if your app gets big enough, there's $20B waiting for you.
All

Development

&

Operations

Became

End-of-life

> Adobe is where software goes to die.

AFAIK Corel has the same reputation. What is the problem with design software companies?

As a long time Figma champion, this breaks my heart. Every time I am forced to go back to an Adobe product I find it worse off than I left it. I worry that I will no longer see rapid updates and features that benefit me as a user and not the grater "cloud ecosystem".
Same here. This is going to do tangible damage to my daily life as someone who opens Figma daily. I also spend time hunting rogue Adobe spyware processes in activity monitor daily. Adobe destroys everything they touch and Figma was finally innovating despite them. I hope we get real anti trust laws someday.
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but are you willing to walk away from your current job where your employer won't share your sentiments? Are they going to switch to a Figma alternative because of ideology and emotions tied to the change in ownership? Isn't it more likely that the product will work as is and businesses won't face any direct interruption because owner changed?

I think Adobe made a smart decision, businesses are locked in and unlikely to switch once something is deeply integrated to their application design workflows.

"Corner the market, and raise the price." In this case, outsource the former and in-house the latter.

I’m a freelancer so I have the luxury of choice here, but I agree there is likely not much that will change until Adobe cripples Figma enough for an alternative to surpass it significantly.
Oh no...Well, I guess it was good while it lasted!