Ask HN: About to have a child, completely burnt out at my job, what do I do?

79 points by f0a0464cc8012 ↗ HN
Hello HN, I just learned that we are going to have a baby, but I'm just so burnt out at my job. I can barely afford my health insurance, and now we are looking at adding a dependent, there's just no way. I've been here since 2012, and I've never felt like I wasn't just about to be fired.

And this baby is going to be here, like, imminently. It's always been my dream to be a dad, and now I realize how laughably unprepared I am to be bringing somebody into this world. I can barely do my job, and now, it's so, so serious. I can't quit my job, I can't take time to look for another job, I can't _do_ my job.

When it was just "me" in the world, I could afford to be cavalier and take chances, but now I feel completely dependent on a group of people that demonstrably DNGASFF about me.

I'm not a fast talker, my resume looks like shit, the only thing I know how to do is program, and we're about to have a baby. What do I do?

109 comments

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Are you able to get some paternity leave through your current job? Maybe some leave could help buy you some time, both to relax with your baby and get your resume into shape.
Agreed. Go on paternity leave, it'll provide some distance and maybe some time to interview.
Relax, you will be fine. Everyone is scared before they have kids and then it all works out, there are a couple of billion kids on this world, how hard can it be.
Please lawd let this be sarcasm. OP needs to treat this and respond like the emergency it is or is in for a world of pain. Buckle down, clean up the resume, and start getting in front of anyone who will employ someone competent enough to sling code.

Hope is not a strategy and “it’ll work out” is naivety and survivorship bias’ love child. 12 million kids live in poverty in the US, for example.

OP seems to currently be employed as a programmer, on the verge of having a kid and very stressed. He is not into abject poverty yet. Relaxing is a good advice actually. People don’t take good decision under intense stress. That’s why burnout is so pernicious. It removes your ability to objectively look at what’s happening.

Even if the situation requires actions, calming down and taking the time necessary to realise you actually have space to work on solutions is always a good first step.

Relaxing is probably the wrong word. You should approach the situation like you’re a first responder arriving at the crash scene: prepared to act and stowing your emotion. Maybe they can take time? Depends on burn rate, savings, and estimated time to next role. Can’t know without insight into OPs finances.

I agree panicking doesn’t help; it’s a call to action. When not at their day job, their job is to find a new job outside of business hours.

(I would propose different advice for someone not in the US, who might have parental leave available and a more robust social safety system)

> Relaxing is probably the wrong word. You should approach the situation like you’re a first responder arriving at the crash scene: prepared to act and stowing your emotion.

I don’t think that’s a good advice. Life is not a crash scene where minutes count.

Realistically we are talking about weeks here. The situation is not that different today than yesterday and will be mostly the same tomorrow.

OP has time to take a breath, remember that they have a partner having the kid with them and who they can talk to, take a calm look at the situation as a whole which is highly unlikely to be as bad as he paints it (realistically how unemployable can be someone who currently holds a steady job) and then plans actions for the next few months.

The original comment was spot on in a lot of way. Having a kid is indeed a life changing event but it’s good remembering plenty of people went through it and survived.

It does not all work out for a lot of people actually but they don't tend to be on hackernews giving reassurances.
Right? People make it seem like having a child is THE trial of life. Chill out and enjoy, folks. They are much more resilient than we think and our ability to mold them into something we consider positive is veeeery limited. They are going to be whatever they are going to be; your style of parenting doesn't really matter much.
It's OK, just pull your strap, man. A happy childhood will not buy itself. Having children ought to be hard, otherwise population of Earth would grow much faster.
While true in itself I find that it is mean to say this to someone who is going through a crisis. Having children is not easy but not super hard either if as a parent you have things in order. However, sometimes without doing anything wrong things go off track. I burned out in the past and while at it , it felt like a place of no return. I now look at it from a place of insight, I learnt to never go down that path again and avoid it at all costs. But I was not expecting a child during the crisis and am aware how this would've made the situation worse.

Things turned out slightly differently for me and could see the OP taking some useful cues from it. When I burned out I eventually quit my job(the sooner the better or an extended vacation with the possibility of returning just for safety). I then took a complete break from anything technology related, in all honesty I was forced to, my focus was all over the place. I walked a lot during those days and tried not to linger in static helplessness but do something minimal but with a purpose. I figured that I wanted to walked our friends dog, as stupid as it sounds it helped. My mind started clearing of negative thoughts after about a month and some hope started creeping in but was still not able to simply jump into another job, that required about 3-4 months. That's when I found out I was going to be a dad and though a bit stressed out some new determination kicked in. And some luck too, someone, an old manager I had moved to a new company and looked for me for a job. I explained I was going to be a dad and in addition to congratulations there was some promise of work-life balance. And it actually worked out, i'm still here now 5 years later.

The takeaway is that time is needed to recover and that this process can be extremely scary but could be eventually overcome by most of us. The reason I did burn out was because I did not have the intuition to quit that job earlier but at the time I did not know what that messy stressful job was about to do to me, now I know.

> Having children is not easy but not super hard either if as a parent you have things in order.

I wish it to be super hard and not cool tbh. If you want to get that kind of coolness then go 996 and stop complaining, please. Somebody might be disgusted about overpopulation of the Earth, btw.

Great, meanwhile some of us want to have fun while tending to our responsibilities.
I'd be willing to bet your resume looks better than you think, but maybe you can put that out there and get some advice. Do you have a safety fund that would let you walk away from a job for a little while?
If you've been there for 10y and felt like you were always about to be fired, odds are they're not going to fire you as you're about to have a child. If their intent had been to fire you, they'd already have. The fact that they didn't shows that either you're paranoid or they've got a conscience. If they kept you due to their conscience, they're not going to fire you as an expecting new dad.

In any case perhaps do try to get another job. You've got more time now than you'll have for the coming two years. Pay it now or suffer later.

You need parental leave. Not only for your mental health, but so you can support mama and baby. You should not be thinking about work AT ALL for the first 90 days of baby's life.

Do whatever you can to get as much parental leave as you possibly can. Be there for baby and mama, and then -- only then, after baby is a few months old and your partner has healed a bit -- should you start worrying about your job and finances.

Thinking about caring for your new infant and partner's perinatal health are enough work already, and are far more important right now than your job anxieties.

The only solution for you right now is to understand your priorities. At the moment, the only thing that really and truly matters is your wife/partner's health and your baby. Focus on those for the first month.

After that, focus on the job.

Agree with this one 100%. Don't listen to the "bootstraps" and antis in the thread.
Definitely agree with this - in 2022 this just seems humane more than anything.
Well put. Take advantage of parental leave as much as you can. Once you’re about a month or two in and are able to “breathe” a bit more, you can think about looking for a new job.
>> At the moment, the only thing that really and truly matters is your wife/partner's health and your baby.

Maybe it’s just the phrasing of this and it’s intended differently, but it seems like terrible advice. You should never put your own mental health last. If you’re in a hole you’re not going to be able to help anyone else. If OP has just found out they’re having a baby they likely have some time. If they use that time to focus on themselves and get themselves in a better position they can be in a much better mental state to help when the baby actually arrives. The statement I quoted reads like the OP doesn’t matter and he should accept that. But maybe I’m not understanding your intention fully.

My intention was to convey that OP needs to prioritize his baby and partner over worrying about his job/job performance.

His post expresses a great deal of anxiety over his financial circumstances and job performance -- which are valid, and, importantly, are problems that can be solved later. My intention was to convey that fretting about finding a new job or improving current job performance are NOT where OP's energy should be going right now, even if it seems on the surface like a new job will solve all of his problems.

OP should focus that mental energy on:

a) getting parental leave so that he can b) improve his mental health and c) support his partner and his new baby.

Good luck, OP! Just remember that you are not the only person who has ever become a new Dad, and you are going to get through this! I'm wishing you all the best for your family!

Isn't it inefficient for both mom & dad to take their parental leave at the same time? Wouldn't it be better to alternate like 8 months + 2/4 months so that atleast one person is available for basically a full year? Rather than both having to go back to work in 6 months.
Carrying a baby and giving birth is a physical and emotional trainwreck. A C-section involves literally cutting you open. If you're lucky enough to have a vaginal birth you're still going to have a tear or -- if your ob is still in the stone age -- an episiotomy. And there's a whole roller coaster ride of hormones and pressure to do everything perfect or you'll ruin your child for life.

The partner who didn't give birth is there to take care of two mostly helpless human beings, one who just came into to the world and one who needs rest and TLC so they can rejoin the world quickly.

This is the most HN comment of all time. Sigh.

We're talking about human beings. Efficiency is not part of the equation. The perinatal period is the most physically (and very often mentally as well) dangerous period in a woman's life. Women to this day die from complications in childbirth.

The first six months after birth are incredibly difficult on a woman's body and mind. Women NEED their partners' help at this time, efficiency be damned.

If you have felt like you were on the verge of being fired for a full decade, I think that might be a sign that you are actually indispensable despite how they feel about you. And because of that, they have piled the work onto your plate. The only way to break free is to find a new job, at least eventually. My advice is to try to relax&sleep now while you can, enjoy the new addition to your family, update your resume, start looking for new employers, and do the bare minimum at work to get by. At least you can use the “baby kept me up all night” excuse now to hide your lack of motivation.
You don't need to be a fast talker to get a job as a programmer. If you haven't left your job in 10 years you might be able to double your salary with a move.

Send me your resume, my email is in my profile. Happy to take a look.

Being a dad is a lot of work, but caring is the most important part. For the first few months finding sleep is very difficult, and supporting your spouse will be important, but other than that it's pretty simple.

It's good that you are freaking out now, it means you need to freak out less later.

You could try to change jobs before kiddo arrives, and line up start date 2 months or however long you want to take off. Start by having conversations and not putting so much pressure on yourself, plenty of teams need someone with experience.

I left a job with a few weeks to go until birth, which allowed me to prep in a different way, by fixing things around the house, preparing food, getting baby stuff etc. I accepted an offer back at BigCo the week baby arrived with a start date that was about two months out.

I definitely leaned into my savings, but I kind of valued not having my first kids birth being held over my head at a job that I wasn’t thrilled with.

Of course this was possible because my wife and I were both working and had solid savings cushions.

Happy to talk if you want, our kiddo is 3months this week and it’s been an amazing ride. Plenty of people have done it with fewer resources, you can do it OP!

Not sure where you are - but in my situation having my 2nd son right in March 2020, I had (and still have) a job with the government. I had 6 months paid pat leave (full salary) and relatively low stress.

Wouldn't even consider taking a more stressful job until the kids are older, as the trade-off isn't worth it.

All that being said, you need to factor in your partners job, and cost of living wherever you are.

For me, being a dad has been awesome, even through COVID, I hope you can find a way to enjoy it.

* don’t quit your job just yet. Having multiple balls in the air all at the same time will add to your anxiety

* if your baby is healthy, the first 2-3 years are not the most expensive years. You’ll predominately need to be present and support. This will give you time to change jobs and your lifestyle if necessary to increase your finances

* pre-school and primary school is expensive

* parenting is not terribly difficult however, if you are attentive and willing to have regular conversations with you partner (setting goals together, etc), you’ll be fine

I’m a dad with adult kids. Treat everything above as advice. Use what you want, throw out what’s not useful for you. All the best of luck mate!

Based on how it's going with some of my friends now, the next few months/year might just end up being a blur until things stabilize a little.

I suspect you're better at your job than you think. I certainly wouldn't suffer having someone on the team I wanted to fire for 10 years. It does sound like you're tired of your job though.

Take whatever paternity leave you can. If you can afford one, look into getting a night nurse, which can help relieve the stress for you and the mother.

Since you've been at the job for 10 years, my guess is that if you can find another one, you'll likely be paid more. Interviewing is intimidating, but not everyone has a nightmare parade of leetcode questions. You're absolutely going to strike out at interviews. You just have to accept that, there are likely companies that you'd be a perfect fit for.

I don't know anything about your work now, but if you're looking for a place that gives you a little more breathing room, why not look into City/State/University jobs? Former classmates who took jobs working on city systems may not be making the most, but they got great benefits, good wlb, and a pension coming to them.

If you're able to take Paternity, take it. It's going to be a whirlwind, especially if this is your first child, and this is likely the first real stretch of time you've had off in your entire adult life. It's hard to bond with a week-old child, but spend as much time as you can with the baby and make yourself available to help mom with anything she might want help with.

The good news is that the baby sleeps... a lot. You can only fill up so much time doing laundry, cleaning bottles, and doing dishes. You will have some free time, especially at the start. Use some of this time dusting off your resume and learning some things that interest you that you haven't had the chance to dig into previously. You should be free from the typical day-to-day work stresses so, if you're like me, this might actually be enjoyable. If you're already confident you dislike your job, maybe even try to get an interview or two scheduled during this time.

Once you're back to work you can evaluate with a clear head just how much you (dis)like your current job, and you should have a clearer idea of how close to the chopping block you truly are. Some employers have a knack for making you feel worthless even if you're incredibly valuable.

Make sure you're prioritizing your family; it's a lot easier to find another job. This is an very exciting time- enjoy it!

> Some employers have a knack for making you feel worthless even if you're incredibly valuable.

Saving this wisdom. I have worked for a few of them.

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> The good news is that the baby sleeps... a lot. You can only fill up so much time doing laundry, cleaning bottles, and doing dishes. You will have some free time, especially at the start.

I guess your child is very different to mine or you are very different to me, but for at least the first two weeks there's really not enough time for everything, certainly not to get enough sleep. Doing some side work as well seems incomprehensible to me.

The baby will sleep a lot.. in two hour chunks with crying in between. That said, yes the beginning part isn't actually that many hours you're really doing anything for the baby and you'll (hopefully) be stuck at home, so it is a good time to apply for jobs and do interviews. Good luck and congrats!
Kids can be very different. Even siblings can have totally different behavior.

Some sleep like... er... babies, and some wake up every 1.5-2 hours and drive you crazy. :-)

If your wife works, seriously consider her not working. This makes a lot of financial sense actually, because if you are in a high marginal income tax bracket, and her salary is low, it might cost more money for her to work and to send your kid to childcare than for her to not work and stay home with the kid.
I was in a situation not unlike yours when my wife got pregnant but I was unemployed, and hadn't had a W2 job for a long time.

You have a job, take a deep breath - but clearly you will want a new job sometime soon.

My advice is to focus on people - don't be shy or embarrassed about reaching out to everyone you've ever worked with or been friends with in the industry about how you're interested in new opportunities.

I found a job while my wife was preggers through the husband of an employee of a freelance client from years back. Most people like to help people when they can!

Apply the same belief in your dad abilities to your job abilities and I trust you'll land on your feet.

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You have ten years experience as a programmer and it sounds like you've been working your ass off. Get some help preparing your resume and you'll have no trouble finding another job. I agree with another comment that you might be severely underpaid unless you've been getting hefty raises.

I just had my first kid earlier this year and I won't lie - the first three months were rough - but it's true what everyone says: sleep gets better, you and the mom support each other and learn together, and it starts to get fun and rewarding.

Hopefully your work provides some parental leave for fathers but even if they do, it sounds like you should at least update your resume and look into what other jobs are available.

Take a deep breath. It's all very hard but somehow manageable. For example, I used to be dead without my 9 hours of sleep. I found out that, with screaming children, I can do with 6-7. One step at a time. It's one of those where climbing a mountain seems impossible, but taking one step is OK.

No one is prepared to be a parent, really, unless you've had 2 kids already. People forget the tough stuff when they tell you their war stories from 20+ years ago. Truth is, everyone makes it up as they go along. Being a passable parent is somehow baked into our DNA, so with a little effort you'll make a good one, and with dedication a great one.

See if you can somehow coast at work. I don't mean, take advantage of anything, but the first 12-18 months of a child's life is not ideal for pushing hard on career. For the same reason, if you'd be thinking about changing jobs, I'd take it into account.

Dude! Congrats! This is a magical time. Don't waste it by worrying.

Stay at your job. Milk them for whatever paternity leave they will give you. And if you announce you are going on a long paternity leave, they are not going to fire you right before you leave. DO NOT SWITCH JOBS NOW.

When the hospital sends you the bill - argue, argue, argue. They did stupid stuff to us like bill both my wife and the child for all the same delivery line items ("guys, it was the same procedure!"). Get it to a reasonable number and put it on a payment plan.

Use the paternity leave to start looking for jobs. You'll have time and a clear head. And a much bigger perspective on life. You may even find that with the change, you were missed at work and that the burnout seems far and distant.

After that, having a kid is cheap. (At least at first). Get yourself a Costco membership. The first year we spent maybe $35 a month on diapers and $45 a month on formula. Clothes and furniture and toys other people will be stoked to provide for you. At tax season, enjoy getting a few thousand extra dollars back.

Welcome to the next phase of your life. I wish you and your growing family much happiness.

Just to add another data point. This last year due to the shortage, we’re spending 200/mo on formula alone.
To this point, consider breastfeeding. I won’t comment on nutritional differences, but you save money at the cost of time/flexibility.
Pumping. It ended up that I had to do it if I wanted my kid to have my milk (would he have starved 100 years ago? No idea!) but it had the excellent side benefit of being able to separate output from input, and my husband was able to pop the bottle into the little gaping mouth, and I got to where I could get all the little guy could drink and some extra in three long blocks per day.

Even if direct nursing is going well, I highly recommend doing some pumping along the way from early on so that if/when she needs to be away from the baby for a few hours, it's not as big a deal.

I know you mean well with this comment but I doubt there's anyone who gives birth these days who doesn't consider breastfeeding. The hospital's push it HARD and we couldn't leave the hospital without a literal class in it.

Not everyone has an easy time of it though. They either can't produce any or not enough and the combination of this pressure and post-partum depression can be life-threatening. There's a lot more that goes into the decision to formula feed than cost.

I see what you mean, but my point was around the cost saving aspect of it. Maybe everyone considers that aspect, but I figured it’s worth mentioning since once you go down the formula path, it’s hard/impossible to go back.
Oof. I've heard. Is it still that bad at Costco? I was under the impression they were rationing out their supplies well enough now and keeping prices reasonable.
Agreed, it’s not expensive to start. Just wanted to add that if you don’t inherit or are not gifted stuff from friends and family for your kid that you need, check second hand stores and/or kijiji/Craigslist/etc first. Many items are 1/5 of the cost of buying it new, and a lot of the time it’s brand new anyways.

It does get expensive if you have to pay for care. Not sure where you live OP, or what your support system is like from family, so that may or may not be an issue.

The wife wanted to stay at home for the first few years anyway and we made it work. Infant care is fundamentally inefficient and expensive, but people too easily dismiss some of the tax benefits you may be eligible for. At least at our income level, almost half of daycare expenses we get back at tax time.
> When the hospital sends you the bill - argue, argue, argue.

As someone who comes from a country with single-payer healthcare, this sentence made me feel really sad. I knew some people around the world have to pay for hospital trips, but for some reason I never even considered that having a baby could cost the parents money.

Often times it's thousands of dollars even with insurance. We were lucky in that we only had a $20 copay I think.
I second the part about having a kid is cheap. I was so afraid of the expenses, but the child caused us to experience significant lifestyle changes that in turn saved us significant money.
It takes a village. Use your network.
Take whatever benefits you have and then quit.

It will be hard. Find some way to reward yourself or you'll go insane.

You'll be happy down the line.

You are thinking too much before even experiencing it. You will get tired but a lot of people is also stressing out by envisioning too much.

Let it come to you, be extra strong for the kid, and realize you will get tired from late night wakings, but let your bosses know. Ppl are more compassionate than you think if you are up front.

This is great advice. So many dads told me what it was going to feel like to be a dad. By the time I arrived there myself, I found the experience to be completely different and that I had spent lots of mental energy preparing for an experience that wasn't my own.
Send me your resume and I will help you polish it up. There are also free training courses you can take that I can point you to. w.a.barnhill@gmail.com and put GiftedZebra in the subject. FWIW, I've got 20+ years as a software engineer working for large consulting companies. If it's not clear, this is free, no strings attached. This is also a thing for you, as an expectant parent so hopefully I won't get flooded with resumes.
May I email you a few resume questions too? I am in a pickle myself as a SE, and struggling to get out. (I won't email you without your permission, and if you are not interested, I will take no offense.)
Go ahead and happy to. No one else please. This is a business concept, polishing resumes and not a bad one, but it's not a business I am looking to be in.
Could you perhaps please list the courses you're referring to?
Congratulations! Sounds like a stressful situation. In my opinion:

It sounds like you need a break and need a bit of a mental adjustment: you've likely spent a decade being undervalued (new hires almost always make more than long-serving employees).

Take what pat leave you can, max out vacation time, and sick days if you need to, decompress, and adjust to being a dad.

As soon as you feel ready, talk to management / owners and express these feelings. You'll get good feedback either way. Your goal is either to take a sabbatical and come back refreshed, with a raise, or take your notice period to find a new job.

Maybe it's time to move into management or shift into something slower, like government. Maybe it's time to move nearer to family -- grandpa and grandma might enjoy helping with childcare.

Calm down, face your fears, and change what you need to change in order to take care of your responsibilities.

Best of luck!

1) Don't make a rash career move now. Knowing you are about to be responsible for another human can be frightening, but you want to run towards your future, not away from fear. After adding a baby to your family, your time at work will be rough, and you may underperform; that is normal. As a general rule, it is better to do that in a job you know versus a new one, where this is the first impression you get of people.

2) (Assuming you are in the US) If you can choose health insurance plans (annual enrollment this year and baby next year), check how your health insurance handles birth. There can be a massive difference in how much you pay out of pocket.

3) Plan to take parental leave. If your company offers it, take it... all of it. If it doesn't, budget to take three months off (but seriously, not less than half that). You and the mother won't be getting much sleep, there will be more to do, and last but not least, this is the only time your child will be a baby. This period is not something you can redo later.

4) Get your mental health in check. Your constant fear of losing your job and a low view of your worth suggests you may have some things to work through. Talk to mental health professionals, not just a friend or family member. You owe it to your child and family to be present and a positive influence.

Good luck.