Obsidian 1.0 – Personal knowledge base app (obsidian.md)

1329 points by ericax ↗ HN
Cofounder of Obsidian here. We're excited to announce Obsidian 1.0 is live!

Obsidian 1.0 introduces two big changes: a UI overhaul and an new tabbed interface. We've put a lot of care into making the app more approachable and more accessible. We've also prioritized using more native OS features for menus, windows, and many details.

We got our first private beta users from a comment under a HN thread about org-roam [1], and our waiting list was an innocent Google Form. Good times!

Our initial launch on HN was over two years ago [2], when terms like "second brain" and "tools for thought" were still in their infancy. Since then, the landscape has continued to evolve and new ideas are sprouting in the space every day. Obsidian has always embraced its "hacker" nature and thrives off its community of tinkerers. We now have over 670 plugins that push the envelope of what's possible in the app.

We want to continue to foster that same hacker spirit, but at the same time, we want to provide a polished product that can stand on its own. In the last several months, we've expanded the team and refocused ourselves on providing a product that's polished and easy to use.

We have big plans to continue making Obsidian the best and most refined thought-processing app for decades to come. Obsidian 1.0 is just the start!

Special credits go to Stephan Ango (@kepano) for the redesign and Liam Cain for tirelessly polishing this release.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22767658 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23324598

577 comments

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Hi Erica and congrats to you and the whole team! Super excited for a 1.0 release. I hope this means we get some official API docs soon. ;)

In terms of your journey, what do you think the main challenges were? I'm sure a big one is adoption and another performance but curious to hear what the team's thoughts are.

For me personally, the community has been absolutely stellar. Lots of folks always willing to help out. Just a year and a half ago, I found dataview and after avoiding frontend for nearly a decade, I've finally begun my journey with React. The entire experience was kickstarted by my finding Obsidian and trying to contribute to plugins that I loved. A special thanks to everyone from the community: shabegom, joethei, koala, blacksmithgu, pseudometa, Eleanor, Fevol, aquaman, metruzan, and many many others whose name I'm blanking on right now but I promise I'm grateful!

May I ask some video materials which show creating of Obsidian tree with really rich using of its abilities?
Obsidian is my favorite app, and my only missing feature is to enable better PDF support, similar to Logseq.

Logseq allows me to embed the PDFs inside the app and annotate them with all the bells and whistles enabled by markdown. Area highlights, math notation, all these things are not possible with classical PDF readers, and I think Obsidian would fit well here.

What do you prefer Obsidian over Logseq for?
As an outliner, Logseq is too opinionated about how I am supposed to use it. Obsidian is less strict and allows me to follow whatever principle I want to which extent I want.

I can mix a bit of Zettelkasten here, some daily notes there, and some 'old-fashioned' folder structures for projects to my heart's content.

(not op) Logseq is open source and really great in the way it connects notes and highlights pdfs, but the sync part is too “asynchronous”. It works well if you use a single device, but as long as you add something else you have to manually reindex and refresh a lot.

Obsidian is less opinionated on the txt file format and folders too, so I consider it more future-proof.

The sync part I solved with syncthing.

I started with logseq and now obsidian doesn't work for me anymore. Tried to switch but I am into this small self containing bits now. Plus journal with timestamps

Can you elaborate on the syncing part? Last I tried Logseq, syncing across devices via iCloud was very unreliable. So I gave up. Although I would have loved to replace Roam with Logseq back then. Now I stick to Emacs + orgmode and Obsidian for plain markdown files.
I have a folder in syncthing called "logseq". This folder holds the logseq files. I have logseq-sync on my phone so it syncs the folder. I also have a Cloudserver which is the spoke and all other devices (2 laptops, the phone) sync it.
Syncthing is very good, but the best iOS implementation, Möbius Sync[1], is not comparable with the Android one (the OS limits the syncs, you need a regular notification and so on).

The great things about Logseq are his weakness for me. Everything is so interconnected (you can say: "here put the paragraph of this other note") that I sometimes lose confidence in the system. It becomes too complex. With Obsidian I know that a note is a file. Less convenient but simple and reliable.

Logseq really excels with his outlining mode, I miss it (but I don't like the way it saves states in the markdown file). It has some problems with the code blocks too.

[1] https://www.mobiussync.com/

Also not OP, but personally I have a few gripes with Logseq:

- No export to PDF. There's a community plugin, but it's not great. The workaround is to export to HTML and print to PDF, but there's no real iOS option there.

- Managing images and other attachments are a mess. Using the "upload an asset" method gives it a random filename that if the app fails to save the page correctly, you either dig through the folder structure to find the random file name to link manually or you re-"upload an asset" creating a duplicate with a new random name. This could be alleviated if it was more stable or with a file picker with thumbnails to find previously "uploaded" files

- Pages fail to save correctly more than I'd like. I have no idea what the cause is, but it happens frequently on every platform I've tried.

- Page title changes don't propagate correctly sometimes, causing orphaned pages where it's a coin flip whether the page with the older title holds the content or the new one, leaving the other empty.

- Each page needs a unique title. I like how Notion allows multiple pages with the same title and are organized based on which parent page they're embedded or created in. I imagine Notion randomizes the actual file name similar to how Logseq already does for "uploaded" assets, so this could be alleviated if Logseq did the same. It could potentially alleviate the previously mentioned issue and it seems to me like the most logical method of handling this particular type of non-directory organizational structure.

- Their E2EE sync service is not yet ready, so no real mobile sync outside of iCloud (I use DropBox).

- Their documentation is terrible. There's tons of undocumented features, like admonitions, and the existing documentation is horribly structured, which is ironic since the documentation uses Logseq itself and the whole point of the app is to structure content.

----

Side note, since we're on the topic of personal knowledge bases and note taking, my personal dream app is Obsidian with Asciidoc support instead of Markdown. A lot of the extra features they add to markdown are part of the Asciidoc standard, like admonitions and document-to-document cross-references, it would potentially make the backend easier and the content more portable with page attributes like specifying an attachment directory, and some features are simply more flexible/powerful like tables.

I still use AsciiDoc to create PDF documents that require more flexibility, like table spans and nested ordered lists (Obsidian's markdown uses just 1,2,... instead of changing to e.g., a,b,... for a nested level). My current workflow is typing it up in VS Code, converting to DocBook with asciidoctor, then converting that to a LaTeX PDF using pandoc. The result is a professional, academic-like PDF, but the workflow is a bit of a hassle and I'd prefer to do all of my document typing in Obsidian since it's so nice to use.

If I had more free time outside of my CS master's program and thesis work, I'd learn JS/TS to attempt to create a community extension that added AsciiDoc support to it and support for exporting to HTML and DocBook (and basic PDF since I'm pretty sure Obsidian uses an HTML-based PDF export anyway because CSS themes affect the look of the export), even if I still needed to use pandoc to convert to a more professional LaTeX PDF. I'm sure the VS Code AsciiDoc extension as reference and asciidoctor.js could get one pretty far.

Sorry for the rant. I've just been itching for a AsciiDoc-based note-taking/PKB for a long time.

I was also kind of sad that Logseq didn't really have a vim-mode.
Fellow AsciiDoc supporter. I want an AsciiDoc note taking app so badly too. So many awesome features in AsciiDoc that blow markdown out of the water. I use asciidoc-pdf for doc/report generation and the workflow is so smooth.

- Includes/embeds (reference your source code by line range(s)

- Complex table support + the ability to embed CSV (automatic headers)

- Frontmatter as a first class citizen

- Macros (Variables) that can be referenced across documents

- Numerous Diagram parsing libraries (embed pretty much any diagram-as-code language)

I've had the same thoughts on building a Dendron type extension for AsciiDoc (AsciiDoc vscode plugin is fairly robust). Really would just need to hammer out some front matter parsing to get basic functionality.

Thanks for the reminder to check out asciidoctor-pdf! I forgot about it because I was using macOS's default, out-of-date Ruby version for the longest time and the gem required a newer version. I've since figured out how to install and change the default Ruby installation though, so I need to check it out. It's certainly a pain getting my current workflow set up on a new machine (e.g. installing TexLive takes forever for the latex-pdf support in pandoc).
ReStructuredText seems like it would be a better contender because it's the standard markup language for the most popular programming language.

It's also natively supported in VSCode (unlike AsciiDoc).

I honestly haven't played with ReStructuredText. I'll take a peek.

AsciiDoc includes are very powerful though, being able to populate your tables/code blocks from external data sources (filtering for certain lines/ranges). Also Tables can have complex structures (merged cells etc).

I feel like AsciiDoc was designed around writing technical papers than code documentation. It's essentially an opinionated wrapper around LaTex but less complexity. reST looks like it can produce great code documentation. AsciiDoc lets me cover both code documentation and customer facing documentation/reports with one code base. But I'll definitely continue to take a peek at reST. Although I think it's use case is more for embedding documentation directly in code. It's probably just my "I know the AsciiDoc toolchain well" bias though.

Agreed, better PDF support would be great. The main feature I constantly need is search. But the 'open in external application' option gets me there pretty quickly, so it's not that much slower - but it would be nice to not have to switch apps.
This is so exciting, congrats!

Obsidian has completely changed my notes workflow over the past year. It's so lightweight, and has just the right amount of structure for me. Thank you for building it! The new interface looks fantastic.

Does this include an update to the iOS app?

Yes, the update got released on every platform
I've been using this for a few months and it's great. The wiki-like connections, vim mode, and several different ways to look at how things relate make it my go to for notes
Good news. I wonder if it can deal with deeply nested folders and get metadata from standard Markdown frontmatter already?

(I have a fair amount of content already in plain Markdown, as you can see here: https://taoofmac.com/static/graph)

Did a quick test. Still seems to not support storing images alongside Markdown files (at least it breaks in mine), nor support having a default file (index.md) per folder and have the folder path be the actual page path.
Not sure what approach you're stumbling with re: images, but they definitely support them, but you can literally just drop an image onto the editor and it'll embed it, including locating it where you've specified that attachments should go.

The default file per folder is not built-in, but there is a handy community plugin[1] which does it.

[1]: https://github.com/xpgo/obsidian-folder-note-plugin

Right. That's the problem, it insists on storing images in a single folder, which doesn't scale or make it easy to manage complex notes as a single unit (it's the reason why my notes are folders and not single files).
No, you can put them anywhere, it just defaults to putting them in a single folder for ease of convenience. There's even a setting, "Default location for new attachments," which allows you to choose:

- Vault folder - A specified folder in your vault - In the same folder as the current file - In subfolder under the current folder

But again, that's just the default location; you can put it anywhere and reference it wherever it is using relative paths.

Well, I am looking at a very simple Markdown file with a single image reference and it's not working. The image file is in the current folder...
Interesting – possibly normal image links don't work but their embeds do?
You can store images anywhere. Can you share what syntax you are using for your image links?
Just tried the plugin in "Index file" mode, set the index file to index.md and it doesn't seem to pick up nested paths correctly for some reason.

(Also the rest of Obsidian seems to not be aware the plugin is there, the notes graph is still referencing the wrong things...)

Those two are actually a must for me. My team at work needed a wiki and I would only accept one with such features, eventually we found it. Still looking for something to self note taking. I'd also need something that can sync to phone cheaper, as currently I don't pay for Google keep
Have been using Obsidian for organizing and running a tabletop RPG session for a while and and it is fantastic. I have whole folders of monsters, encounters, player backstory, world notes, and state blocks. Being able to drop them inline for ‘today’s session’ and then viewing it all together has been monumentally useful.

It’s also been good enough to replace Sublime + directory for my day to day development note taking. Its fast and just gets out of the way for writing and organizing - which is exactly what I want in a note taking app.

Congrats!!

Honestly the beta version was already stable and feature rich enough to consider it it a v1 :)

If one of the key features is a new UI, can I advise to put a couple screenshots in the announcement?

Will this be retrocompatible with plugins on v.15?

As someone using insider build and a bunch of 3rd party plugins, they're fine, but themes are a bit of a bumpier ride due to UI changes.

They've marked them all as legacy and are removing the legacy label as theme developers are updating them.

This update looks amazing. Kudos to the entire team! I love Obsidian, using it for couple of months now.
First I’m hearing of Obsidian, sounds cool. Can anyone comment on how it compares to org-mode?
Current org-mode user here, former Obsidian user. Although much more extensible than apps like Joplin, Notion or - god forbid - Evernote, Obsidian comes nowhere near the freedom you have in Org-mode. You can customize Obsidian to fit your workflow to some extent, but not by a whole lot. Then again: for most people that is enough. Most want to drive a car, not build it.

There is afaik no such thing as an org-agenda in Obsidian, which is a deal breaker for me. Also to do list handling is shoddy at best (it would probably be a perfect app if that got integrated, e.g. via a todo.txt format with a calendar) but alas.

If I weren't an org-mode user, Obsidian would probably be my pick. It is very nice in everything it does, but it just doesn't have that "edge" of creating a setup that is ugly, complicated an unrecognizable from its default. It may be ugly, but at least it's _your_ ugly.

Not an org-mode user.

Would this be a set-up that creates an agenda that works (by using 2 extensions)?

https://medium.com/geekculture/how-i-track-my-tasks-in-obsid...

Dataview is such a great extension.

That definitely gives you the basics. But it's worth noting that core org comes with a lot more functionality, e.g., calendaring, scheduling tasks (this is distinct from deadlines), blocking and ordered tasks, priorities, repeating tasks, timekeeping and time reporting. Some of this could be cobbled together in Obsidian by combining various plugins and some query code.
this is great, thanks!
Obsidian vs. org-mode is pretty much like VScode vs. emacs. Obsidian has a more immediately accessible interface and a big community of plugins, but the available plugins tend to operate at a higher level of abstraction. Obsidian is also document-centric rather than outline-centric, although org-mode can be used either way. Calendaring isn't native in Obsidian and there is no org-agenda, but you can cobble together something similar with queries depending on your needs. Functionally, there's no real reason to switch from org-mode, but if you primarily want Roam-like features and find org-roam too confusing or awkward, you might consider it.
So, without clicking, what does this app do? What is it?
(Advanced) note taking, often used in the Personal Knowledge Management (PKM) & "Second Brain" community.
In brief, an extensible, syncable tool for making lightweight personal Markdown wikis. Emphasis on being very smooth and stylish. Emphasizes giving you a lot of tools that can suit a lot of writing/note taking workflows.

If I were to need to start writing a book this week, this is probably where I'd organize the research and composition.

It’s a note-taking application like Evernote but open source. Has native apps. You can sync using a self-hosted sever easily. Works great on mobile too. Update: Oops. I always thought it was Open Source. I started using it after learning about it a HN thread some time ago. Downloaded and started using and it worked so good I didn’t have to look back about it.
Common misconception, but Obsidian itself is not open source
It's a note-taking app that emphasizes non-linear writing.

You can use it as a journal, personal wiki, knowledge base, task management, or just a Markdown text editor. There are hundreds of plugins that make it easy to tailor the app to your needs.

It's also focused on privacy and future-proofing your notes. All your data is stored locally in a folder of plain text files.

I recently started using Reflect[^1] and I rather like it, especially after trying the task management feature, which is now in beta.

My usage of Reflect has made me very curious about other apps that do similar things (e.g. Obsidian)

Has anyone here tried Obsidian _and_ Reflect?

[^1]: https://reflect.app/

Love love love obsidian. The tool is aesthetically pleasing, built-in vim mode surprisingly well (a few minor glitches with the cursor blinking) — but above all else, the plug-in community takes the cake.

Finally, a note taking application with a decent API that's allowed me to extract metadata and publish metrics into CloudWatch, allowing me to track key metrics and graphically[0] review historical trends of my "second brain." Previous note taking applications I've tried in the past (e.g. Zettlr, Bear) lacked the vibrant developer community that Obsidian has cultivated.

Hats off to the founder and the Obsidian team!

[0] - https://digitalorganizationdad.substack.com/p/stop-zettelkas...

TIL that obsidian has vim mode... I love it even more now.
even better, it asks you to type a specific vim command before enabling it. Great "here there be dragons, are you a dragonslayer?" UX choice, and fun easter egg too ;)
Wow, CloudWatch for note metadata metrics. Notebook organization systems are serious business!
> Notebook organization systems are serious business!

If that's what it takes to make someones system effective so be it.

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well and all that.

What's a better alternative in your opinion?

If it works, it works. Just surprised by the infrastructure involved.
I'm very very very disorganized by nature. Some people I know seem to be organized at birth. All the systems I put are really just mechanisms are really aspiration, ways for me to emulate their behavior, keep me accountable, and gamify it a bit.
That's awesome. Personally I found that I end up spending too much time on configurations and tinkering with the notes, so I end up going for the simplest system I can.
There it is! I am with you 100%. All of these massive plugin systems are a giant time suck. You spend soooo much time just setting things up only to forget the little stuff you need to do when something breaks. Every plugin I have installed requires some level of configuration. The more feature rich plugins (with no surprise there) are basically apps in and of themselves.

I keep hearing praise about this being a simple app, but I found it to be very fiddly if you want more than just markdown rendered in your editor. Lots and lots of time to get things working/configured.

Sync has been a massive PITA for me with Obsidian. Unless you are willing to pay, there is going to be pain there eventually. I had similar problems with OneNote, but those sync problems have mostly disappeared. Further, OneNote's handwriting experience is really good. It is very easy to export all notes from OneNote to Markdown with Pandoc, so while I may be "locked" in, I can "get out" if I want.

Edit: So thank you Obsidian for helping me convert my notes in OneNote to markdown to try you out! I now have a verified escape hatch if I should ever need it. However, I am not sticking around. Too much trouble for little stuff and OneNote is just a really good all arounder.

Another metric idea for you:

"Time taken after creation to search for and open this note again"

This can show how useful your notes are and which are most useful.

> how useful your notes are

While I think it's an interesting metric, it wouldn't capture the utility of my notes for me (emphasis on "for me", since everyone's probably different when it comes to notes).

Often, the act of writing the note helps better commit what I'm writing to memory. At a super rough estimate I'd say that 80% of the utility of note-taking is the act of producing the note itself, and only 20% of the utility is being able to refer back to specific facts.

That's definitely an exponential distribution. I'm a data scientist and I keep going back to a few key notes over and over and adding little bits. I tried to track things like ideas, tasks, and just journaling, but it just didn't fit right. It's unbeatable for my work related stuff though, and the key things for me were mathjax support and being able to paste screenshots directly onto the page. Fantastic product.
Oh, I 100% agree that there would be some kind of exponential falloff in which notes I go back to.

I just, again, for me personally, gain a lot of value from writing the notes even that I never go back to revisit.

So for me personally, the metric is interesting, like I said, but doesn't capture "how useful" a note is, because I have most of my utility outside of that use case.

I don't go back to notes because:

1. I have it committed to memory. 2. I never needed it.

I have no way to discern whether either (1) or (2) will happen as far into the future as you care to specify; so it's mostly a moot point. In any case, I will sometimes just do random walks through my notes, wikipedia style, and find a lot of value in it.

I agree there is value in just creating the note and distilling your thoughts even if you never revisit.

I'm not quite sure how I'd use the metric or if I'd use it to purge notes.

Searchability or recall can be a problem sometimes though, so "searches where I had no results or didn't visit anything" could be interesting.

Especially if I try searching later and find a note answering my question with bad "SEO".

Another idea I had was to make a Firefox extension that searches my notes and displays results before search engines since I reflexively search things in browser sometimes.

Would be interesting to see how to capture this metric within Obsidian. I can imagine a similar metric: "elapsed time between note created and first time note opened." This data might help answer whether or not we are creating notes that are never revisited, an opportunity to purge the note itself.
I used to set this manually on Tiddlywiki with a "touched" field. I'm thinking of incorporating this into Obsidian using the templater plugin.

I found it very useful to organize research papers like this.

Did you try https://logseq.com/? I've had not reason to pick freemium Obsidian over open source Logseq.
I tried both and am using Obsidian now.

I wanted to use logseq (I felt good about "Obsidian, but open source") but when I tried to find some text in a page I was writing it didn't work. I'm a total logseq noob but as far as I could tell I needed to install an extension/plugin to search through the page, which was weird. Plus, the plugin didn't work for me (I typed in the thing to search for, clicked "go find it" and nothing happened, I think - it's been a while and I didn't use it much).

I kinda boggled my mind that logseq wouldn't have a 'Find' feature for finding text in the page I'm editing.

Please tell me that I missed something obvious so that I can feel dumb for missing that obvious thing but happy that I can take another look at logseq :)

Ctrl+K or the macOS equivalent provides a universal search dialog with a toggle for page-only search.

The UX is extremely lacking, but it's open source, gaining steam, and they recently closed $4mil in funding so I expect it to massively improve over the next two years. Notably, page search should function without needing a dialog+overlay, and should support highlighting/navigating every match.

Thanks!

I'm excited to hear that there's support for expanding it.

And I'll definitely go back and take another look at it! :)

Cmd-K to find any line in your notes and Cmd-shift-K to find any line in your page. Starting with 0.8.3 there is also a native find-in-page feature, https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Find%20in%20page, which can search anything that is visible including results of queries
Thanks!

I think I tried Control+F, and maybe looking through menu items (it's probably there & I just missed it).

Its already lost me with nonsense keybindings and I haven't even installed it.
Pretty sure search works, used it mang times. Anyway the major logseq power from my point of view is the ability to tag every bullet point, and then query it. Granted I never needed to write a query, I just search for the tag and find all references to it.

First note taking tools where I actually *read my notes*

I loved Obsidian to death, but felt a bit of friction. As nice as it was, I wasn't getting sucked in and resorted to writing my own bespoke bash program for organized note-taking.

Enter Logseq, and after a 20 minute learning curve, ideas just fly off of my fingertips. I reach for it daily. Can't recommend Logseq enough.

Same experience here. I was die hard fan of obsidian till I used Logseq. Obsidian doesn't have proper outlining as they have another commercial app called Dynalist. They probably don't want competition between their own products. Lack of folders in logseq is a feature. It force the user to follow zettelcasten style which results in serendipitous encounters with older notes.
Completely agree.

While waiting for Logseq to come to Android, I've been using Zettel Notes by Dev Rohit. It's been great so far!

You can do exactly the same with Obsidian, just don't create any folders and voila!

Nits aside, I use both and sometimes folder structure came in quite handy (like having separate notes for course modules and having 15 topics). I wouldn't remember even the names of these topics to come by when I need to.

But I agree also that the magic in Logseq happens more often than in Obsi (rediscovery). I think what contributes to it is the atomic nature of blocks as opposed to pages and daily scroll of all topics encountered recently.

>resorted to writing my own bespoke bash program for organized note-taking.

what? why... also emacs is really good for reproducible terminal logging of experiments/commands/output.

I definitely also like logseq better, but find that it doesn't sync well between desktop and iOS app. Have you found good solution for this?
I sync my journal directory using syncthing and it works reasonably well.
I had the opposite experience with Syncthing + Logseq. The way Logseq is designed, refreshing the entire graph is a must before you even consider editing your pages in another device. I forgot to do it once and after some time editing my pages, I realized that I lost a good chunk of my notes from several days back.
None, because I'm still waiting on an Android app... :(
I’ve read similar narrative before on Reddit (while I was trying to decide Logseq vs Obsidian a few weeks ago). But I don’t get it.

When you open Logseq, you start with bullet points. Is that the only thing that pushes you to create more? In Obsidian, you can just start bullet points on your own.

Oh my that is beautiful. Just looking at the GIFs with the / shortcuts for TODO status, linking to headings using curly braces, the beautiful highlights on "dynamic" areas. I tried Obsidian and didn't feel the same "pull" to keep using it, will definitely try Logseq out.
The biggest fundamental difference is that Logseq is an outliner whereas Obsidian is more flexible to any kind of text you throw at it. So if I am trying to write prose it feels constraining for everything to be a bullet.

That said Obsidian and Logseq are interoperable since they both run on a local folder of plain text files. Meaning you can switch over to Logseq for your outlining needs and use Obsidian for everything else.

(slightly biased since I helped on Obsidian 1.0, but I am a lover of all plain text tools)

I always feel like the term “outliner” misrepresents the approach to note-taking that tools like Logseq, (Org-)Roam, RemNote, etc. have chosen. I don’t really have/know a good alternative label, but there is so much more to it than just “outlining” your thoughts in a list of bullet points.

Often when I write down my thoughts this way, it is more like following associative threads. I focus on a particular thought and relate something to it, which now becomes my new focus. Then I defocus and focus on something completely different. Kind-of like these threads here on HN. I wouldn’t call this outlining, it is more like spawning local contexts, nested textual environments to think in.

This is something that I miss the most when working with linear text structures as in Obsidian. I know you can indent and fold indentations in/out, but for me it doesn’t feel natural the way it does in notebook apps that organize text in block-trees. I also cannot reorganize or reference those indentations easily. I feel liberated (in thinking) with those bullets rather than constrained, but of course it is a matter of personal preference and habits.

org-roam or more generally org mode in emacs is less fixed in it's page structure than logseq. I think outliner is in fact the correct choice for logseq. You cannot move outside of the structure logseq provides for you for the files. org mode in emacs allows you to use any structure you want.

So I think while outliner might be misplaced for emacs it is not for logseq.

Oh I forgot that Org-Roam is different in this regard than Roam since it is based on Org-mode. I don’t have much experience with it, but you are right, it is less fixed like Obsidian.

However, I think Org-mode’s headings (*, **, …) have great nesting and folding capabilities that are more similar to the structure Logseq or Roam provide, but I don’t like having to create a heading hierarchy for my thoughts, so its not really the same.

My critique was more that the term “Outliner” does not really describe how I work with tools like Logseq and Roam, since I don’t really outline my notes/thoughts but use nested bullets more like a focus hierarchy that helps me to “anchor” them in the context of a previous note/thought (I hope this makes sense).*

I like this approach too, just drilling down and fanning out as needed as you research or think.

I’ve used dozens of outlining and mind mapping tools from FreeMind to Logseq to OmniOutliner and more… But for me Obsidian, still wins because of the plugins. Check out the selection of outlining, link management (in particular link graphing) and crucially the refactoring plugins.

At the basic level the outlining plugins give you shortcuts keys to rapidly realign, reindent, fold and navigate a large tree of indented text, and when you combine that with the ability to take an entire level of that tree and just slice it out into its own document, leaning a link to the new document in its place (which other plugins can use to display an inline preview of that document) … it’s just amazing.

I've been using Obsidian for a while and have some plug-ins, but nothing like you're talking about. Would you make some specific recommendations on the plug-ins you're referring to?
Happy to share some of what's been working for me. Some of this is stuff I'm actively using, some of it hasn't quite made it into the "day to day use" yet, but I've been experimenting with. (Random personal advice: Never let your note taking tools feel like using them is work, that's the first step towards not keeping notes!)

- For fans of "outline workflows" Outliner is excellent. A whole bunch of outline/indented text movement and manipulation commands: https://github.com/vslinko/obsidian-outliner

- For easily refactoring notes that are getting too large you want to have Note Refactor. It gives you tools to easily take blocks of text and quickly cut them out into new notes. Its not magic out of the box, but its a powerful tool you can use when building workflows with other plugins. https://github.com/lynchjames/note-refactor-obsidian

- Local images is another good one, working with online content can get messy when you copy notes and then want to be able to work any where you have Obsidian synched. I've got it on my Laptop, two desktops, phone and tablet... I want to carry as much of my related content with me so having an easy way to convert remote images to local copies is a big productivity boost when making notes about content from the internet. https://github.com/aleksey-rezvov/obsidian-local-images

- For analysing the content for some useful stats there's: https://github.com/SkepticMystic/graph-analysis but this is for a relatively specific sort of analysis.

- More general and flexible analysis and graph visualisations are available from the combination of https://github.com/zsviczian/excalibrain , https://github.com/blacksmithgu/obsidian-dataview and https://github.com/zsviczian/obsidian-excalidraw-plugin ... in short query your notes and note metadata like its a database, build reports and data visualisations, and then excalibrain is a whole thing built on top of that power.

- Dynamic embeds of outside content are available from https://github.com/dhamaniasad/obsidian-rich-links and https://github.com/Seraphli/obsidian-link-embed depending on the style and use you like. While there is a built in functionality to preview the links to other notes when you hover over them https://help.obsidian.md/Plugins/Page+preview which has a demo here https://youtu.be/dmnVml_jbsQ?t=222

- And a real force multiplier is adding https://github.com/Taitava/obsidian-shellcommands to your setup. It lets you run scripts and prompt for information and really invest time in procedural automation without having to build your own javascript plugins. So you can setup your system so that when yo...

This is great! Thanks for taking the time to write it up and share.
there's a document mode (shortcut: td) that allows you to write long paragraph
Logseq strongly encourages you to represent all forms of information in the form of checklists or bullet points... which is great if you're making a grocery list but terrible for longform documentation.
Down at the end of the Demo, I was informed that I should be using a Chromium 86 based browser. Humph.
I checked out logseq, and pdf internal linking is amazing! I tried to find the equivalent in Obsidian, but pdf highlights/annotations extensions on it do not seem to have the same functionality. I'll definitely look into switching to logseq maybe in the future if not now.
I have no idea what Obsidian is and their frontpage does nothing to tell me what it is.

All I can see is that it's been updated, but WTF is it?

edit: ahh, it wasn't the frontpage...

Markdown editor that lets you add links to other files. You basically have a "project" consisting of a folder with various .md files.
How does it compare to wikis, eh? Isn't that what they do.
I’d start with the plugins. It allows for easy integration into my current workflow.
It's basically a wiki but running locally that you can sync with a remote, and based around normal (well, almost "normal") markdown files.
That requires setting up a server, which filters out 99% of the population.
It's trying to be a wiki without a server. Or at least, that's how it started. It's a note taking app that uses markdown and plain text files. Gives some nice organizational views.
I used TiddlyWiki for a while, but it was too fiddly. E.g. saving to google drive was a hack. Obsidian, at a very low price, gives me a reliable app -- Tiddly wiki, running within the browser, often got slow when I had a few hundred diary entries.
So what is difference to vscode here? I can see a cool graph view of my links. I guess the target is not directly developers when looking at their paid sync addon, because I would simply put this into a free closed gitlab repo. I will definitely try out the free version this week :)

Edit: Found md-graph that also has the same neat graph: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ianjsike...

Plugin community - stuff like pulling tasks from notes, helping with various organisational systems, etc.

Editing in a somewhat rendered markdown - it's not quite full wysiwyg, but e.g, your heading blocks are sized right, your lists are rendered as bullets until you're editing that line, etc.

Notes first UI: Stuff like the rendered view toggle, links, inline image previews are more acccessible than in vs code due to their higher relative importance.

It is mainly easy of use of the links and being backed by .md files (easy to backup anywhere and future-proof). I think of Obsidian as Org mode 90% there and easier to use.

Two example of easy of use:

- You can type "[[" anywhere and start entering the title of a new or existing note (and follow that link). If the note already exists it will fuzzy match inline as you write.

- While on a note, you can change the title and all the references get updated.

There are also plugins with extra feature like note of the day, which creates and opens a file in the format 2022-10-13 so you can easily have a file for each day. Vim node also works very well.

In my opinion links and images work much better. If you move a Markdown file or an image file to a different subdirectory, links gets fixed automatically. Absolute timesaver over a custom script I had to use previously.

And plugins! I can put a search query right within Markdown and it works. I have a unified interface over Markdown's to-do syntaxes I've left in various files. I can put a button that triggers some internal Obsidian command. I can have templates that pull from APIs and auto-populate some fields. I have variables I can easily query over. There's a git plugin you can use to auto-push/pull. There's a fully-featured mobile app (nearly feature compatible with the desktop app, plugin support and all). I have some subfolders that automatically get published on multiple websites that use a different CMS/SSG.

It's nothing you can't achieve with some custom bash/python scripts, but I don't like to spend my free time maintaining custom scripts, and Obsidian is truly a remarkably extensible product that allows me not to do that. It's easily in top 3 software products I use the most (next to a browser and a terminal emulator), I can't praise it enough.

One big difference is that it works on desktop and mobile.

> I guess the target is not directly developers when looking at their paid sync addon, because I would simply put this into a free closed gitlab repo.

You could, and people do, but there's a bit less friction with the built-in sync.

It’s a fantastic markdown editor. Have been using it daily for a year now as an organization and note tool and couldn’t be happier.
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It's a note taking app that uses markdown and plain text files. Gives some nice organizational views. That's it.
1st 2 sentences: true. Last sentence: not even close. It integrates w/ a Calendar, with Excalidraw for notes in images and vice versa, and via Dataview and DQL supports querying... its featureset is incredible.
Is it me or am I the only one who took a good 3 mins to figure what this app is for ?

Sorry I don't want to sound disrespectul but I didn't found an quick and easy parsable description. If I would show this my parents, I wouldn't be sure if they could guess. :/

"Obsidian is a powerful and extensible knowledge base" ?????

What part of that sentence don't you understand ? It seems straightforward to me.
knowledge base is buzzwordy. it's a very elaborate (and good!) note taking app.
This recent breed of note-taking tools (Obsidian, Notion, logseq, Roam Research) are aimed at enabling a style of personal knowledge base known as networked thinking, which attempts to facilitate the emergent creation of new knowledge by connecting related ideas in your notes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_Vester#Networked_Thin...

Of those, Roam and Logseq definitely are, but Obsidian and Notion are much more open-ended in how they can be used, although I think the Obsidian community online does tend to overindex for that kind of usage.
Would you call a private wiki a note taking app ?
Think a journal / notes application on steroids.
Interesting - the homepage is pretty straightforward.
No, it really isn't if you're not already into this type of app (and the recent trendy buzzwords around them). What it is: A note taking app using plain text files and giving great organization views. Nowhere on the main page does it say note taking app. Nowhere. You have to scroll to find "tend your notes like a gardener" as a clue that this is a note taking app. Anyone who hasn't looked at this space for more than 1-2 years will not know that "knowledge base" is investor-speak for "fancy note taking app".
Not that it makes much difference, but "knowledge base" is a much older term than 1-2 years. The Microsoft knowledge base is the first thing that came to mind, which started in 2003. Tools like Lotus Notes were using the term before that, but I can't find exactly when.

This google trends graph confirms my suspicion that it was a more common term back then: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=K...

Out of curiosity I tried to find older references. There are references using this definition back to at least 1995. Beyond that it's trickier because apparently "knowledge base" was used to describe the knowledge available to an AI system during the expert systems era, which is a somewhat different definition. e.g. Lehnert 1977: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED150955.pdf

its not just you, I think they could have written an about page that explains what it is more clearly. Seems neat though, maybe could replace my "stickies" app
No it wasn't just you. The best I could understand was that it was a note-taking app that outputs in markup.
Yes, it is a markdown notes application. This is the core, think Notion but local-first (Sync is a paid extra, or you can use Syncthing or Git to DIY sync).

You can build much more complicated systems with it (I also have it as my todo app and have it pulling out todos from all my notes and prioritising them), or you can use it as a slightly nicer version of using vs code with a folder of markdown files, which was my precious system (there's also Dendron, which is the same idea but as a vs code plugin).

haha, thank-you for trying to help, but ALL of the examples you used are nothing that I'm familiar with.

So I'm thinking that this is a _ME_ problem and not necessarily a 'Product Description' problem.

After installing it, and typing in a few things I notice that it's similar to ZIM (another desktop wiki app) on the surface.

I also appreciate that you corrected my misuse of "markup" when I should have said markdown without making me feel like an idiot.

You weren't wrong in your use though. Markdown is one of the markup languages.

Also yes Obsidian is pretty much a wiki.

The other replies aren't very helpful imo

It's essentially an app for taking notes and jotting down ideas, and you write them in markdown. You can link references to other notes within a note to link up ideas.

Here's a 12 minute demo that should give you an idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgbLb6QCK88

I'm not that quite in-depth with my usage of it. I essentially use it as a scratchpad for a few notes for work. But it does the job

My thoughts exactly. It sounds cool and I will try it, but even at this moment I'm not sure how is this different then for example OneNote.

Again, don't want to sound disrespectful and I will definitely try the tool.

> I'm not sure how is this different then for example OneNote

The main difference is that your notes are stored in a readable plain text format.

But if you are interested in an open format, you may as well go the full route and use the similar open-source app logseq instead.

[1] https://logseq.com/

I feel Dendron is practically the more equivalent open source tool, logseq is a more opinionated tool, being focused on the bulleted sequential use case that it actually feels relatively different to use
As a former OneNote user who moved to Obsidian, I would say it's like comparing a go kart and luxury sedan. They both technically get you where you're going if you try hard enough. And if you're not going very far maybe all you need is a go kart.

My obsidian has turned into a personal Wikipedia and it's crazy how much it's improved my efficiency.

Can you explain what it has that onenote, evernote, notion etc doesn't?
Never used Notion. I only toyed around with Evernote years ago and remember it being a cluttered mess. One Note worked alright for basic notes but I noticed I rarely referred back to them. With Obsidian, maybe it's because I put the time into my configuration but I have templates for different types of notes, a tagging system that works great for grouping and reference, and the internal linking really ties everything together.
Obsidian is a "personal wiki". Why we might need a personal wiki? Because installing a local MediaWiki instance is quite a hassle and organizing your personal notes by using [[WikiLink]] structure is so wholesome.
If they would simply move "An IDE for your notes" from the "About" page to the top fold of the front page, we'd all have had a much better time.
I'm very aware of Obsidian, having used it on and off since the early days, but I would agree that the wording on the linked page (for the 1.0 release) seems to make an assumption that the reader already knows what Obsidian is:

> Obsidian 1.0, the all-new Obsidian.

> A brand new look. A fresh way to browse. An exciting new start.

You could also be misled into thinking this is the home page.

The actual home page does a better job of getting to the point of what Obsidian is:

https://obsidian.md

(And BTW, I recommend Obsidian, it's excellent)

It's basically a Markdown editor, except not for a single document, but a collection — which might be all your documents.

Or some subset(s) sure, fine. It's flexible. But the huge value is more readily apparent when it is all the documents (for some meaningul value of "all").

The reason for this is these "second brain" and "personal knowledge management" apps are rather cultish and aren't really intended for an audience outside of those already in the know - that is, the circuit of cycling through all these different apps and "productivity" games.

A similar app, Roam Research, is the same story as Obsidian, only a few chapters ahead. Roam's marketing campaign actually referred to itself and its users as a literal cult.

Ultimately, like self help, it's all just more of the same - cashgrabs that make people feel like they're improving or achieving, with every self help quip they consoom, with every "second brain" note they take.

Ultimately, they're just games for wasting time - "tool games" [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33135227

We can only aspire to be as perfect as you, and your:

- blanket admonishment of others' efforts towards creativity and developing insights

which you already have and that can come only from inside your great mind.

Please fluoresce and share your brilliant illuminating light of self-made intelligence and inspiration upon us, the sheep-like, turf-sprawled, vibrating masses.

Agree, I've also seen this is a rising sentiment on Twitter these days.

These tools are technologically great, but they are not 10x better than notepad.exe

The marketing and hype around these tools are self perpetuating. Some twitter guru will post about these tools and get kickback or an increase in followers. People who pay for tools post about their experience online so they can signal to other people who have paid for this tool that yes, they now belong to the cool kids club too.

And there are content creators who's income depends on these tools. They will 'review' these tools, post a review online and unknown to most people, they will be getting some money for this review under the table.

I've also seen that this is all mostly limited to tech folks who consume too much of their info from Twitter and Youtube. None of my offline friends know about Obsidian, Roam, or the zillion productivity tools that are being produced.

"These tools are technologically great, but they are not 10x better than notepad.exe."

That's cap. Obsidian is many, many times more powerful and useful than notepad.exe. It's a completely different class of product. It's virtually an operating system unto itself.

I appreciate what Obsidian is and how it works, and congrats on 1.0!

On the personal side, I dislike aesthetics and wouldn't ever use it 'cause of Electron, tho. I'm spoiled by native note-taking apps like Bear and Noteplan on macOS which have much nicer UX and UI, especially on mobile.

Has Noteplan's performance improved over the past couple years? I really liked its model, but last time I tried it (early 2020) it got pretty slow as soon as you had a non-trivial amount of data/notes in it. Ironically, given the sentiment (which I share!) about Electron, Obsidian trounces Noteplan for performance.
I stopped using Noteplan as developer doubled the subscription price over the night. Performance was perfect for me, though.
The aesthetics of all three of these apps seem almost the same?
Bear's aesthetics are definitely a bit nicer. I have switched to Obsidian for extensibility and its use of local files… but Bear has a level of polish that is hard to put into words and which screenshots alone don't quite capture. It just straight-up feels better. (It also has the problem of getting updates very slowly and is really committed to keeping everything in its internal DB, which makes it much less useful to me.)
You can try minimal theme, it makes it a look a bit more native.
>It means we're proud enough to drop the word "beta".

Huge milestone. Congratulations! I will be trying out the flatpak on my Linux build and keeping an eye out for your progress. Well done!

Congratulations on the 1.0. Just installed it and everything works great.

Obsidian has been a core part of how I go about my day to day ever since I installed it a few months ago. Using it in conjunction with my Dropbox account has been a smooth operation too.

I tell everybody about it at this point. Keep up the good work.

Congratulations on the launch! I downloaded Obsidian for the first time last night and spent all morning customising it, so the timing for me couldn't be better.

Quick note, on the website the download button for MacOS is delegating to "https://github.com/obsidianmd/obsidian-releases/releases/dow..." despite the button saying "Version 1.0.0", I believe it should be "https://github.com/obsidianmd/obsidian-releases/releases/dow..." instead?

It's a caching problem. You should be directed to the correct version in the next few minutes.
Shame -- I cannot seem to download it.
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Love obsidian, thank you for building!

My only dream is blocked by Apple. Would to have the ability to switch the default notes client in iOS, similar to how you can with browsers and email.