Ask HN: Disappearing Comments?
Just out of curiousity, under what circumstances do comments completely disappear from HN threads? I recently posted a comment (this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116509 )that several people found offensive to the HN culture and rules. Some comments called me out for my word choice, or the sentiment I expressed. Some agreed. In two or three cases, where I responded to criticism with an explanation of my intent and and apology for the unintended offense, and one where I simply agreed with the interlocutor, the comments - both my response and the one I was responding are now gone. How does this happen?
50 comments
[ 2.3 ms ] story [ 90.2 ms ] threadIt is possible that the comment you were responding to was marked as [dead], and that you have "showdead: no" in your profile.
The other comment is the one by dang, and it's simply folded.
often it takes bravery to disagree with the crowd, and often only those who are most passionate have the guts to disagree.
The funning thing about HN is, we're all typing with our pinkies out, so you can disagree but if you dont do it with the utmost literary elegance and most bulletproof logic, it doesn't matter how right you were. Instead, what matters is that for a moment you stepped outside the parameters of gentility and your comments will be held for further review... forever.
Bravery and fact are not always intertwined, but you will nonetheless pay the price for your bravery. Don't be brave here unless you're confident in your abilities of presenting a point covertly.
Initially I thought I was thinking too highly of myself, but when a 30 minute pause happens in someone's post history, and then shortly after their scathing rebuttal graces my reply the predicted downvotes arrive in short fashion within a small window of time. I saw it, I suspected it, I tested it. It's pointless to report 'thought leaders', without them here, and without their patronage of YC, a lot of followers would just follow them where they go.
I would not be surprised if some of these 'power posters' have been given light moderation privileges.
My guess would be that downvotes like this happen occasionally, but there is no formal list, and no automated system involved. I also doubt it's officially or unofficially approved of by the site. What makes you think this is done systematically by "bots", rather than case-by-base by individuals loyal to the person that was criticized?
> I would not be surprised if some of these 'power posters' have been given light moderation privileges.
Dan has indeed confirmed that some users have "light moderation privileges": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31240711. He mentions "longstanding HN users", which probably has some overlap with "power posters".
Eventually I was told by an admin here I need to chill / move on which I have and haven't talked about it in a two years or so.
Overall I just wanted to alert others that tech companies even ones who inspired you are not to be trusted. Demand tons of money if and when you get an invite!
AFAICT a lot of posters here are pretty skeptical of contemporary google for all sorts of reasons. I know I am, and my job these days is primarily Android app development. The days of "Don't be Evil" are long over literally and figuratively.
I'm sure there are lots of fine people working at Google, but its a giant company that exists primarily to stuff ads in your face at the highest rate you will tolerate and collect data on you for the same purpose so its not too surprising that there's going to be some ethically dubious goings-on as well and even when you get past that its hard to root for a company that has such a long history of taking well-regarded projects, developed either internally or acquired, and just unceremoniously killing them off right after you start to depend on them.
I have no knowledge of the incident you're talking about but I suspect whatever warning you got was more to do with talking "incessantly" (your words) about the specific issue rather than the issue itself. At a certain point even completely valid complaining can come off as spamming if you force-inject it into any semi-related topic, though I also understand wanting to shout from the rafters when you feel like you've been personally wronged by a large, well-known entity.
It is old news but it's how Silicon Valley works ..every man or woman for themselves and all tech companies I hear incentivize their R&D folks to developers to file patents. I'm sure the tech companies do not care where or how the inventions came from until it would become a PR nightmare. Which Silicon Valley stealing from fledging inventors seems to be stories not worth telling and maybe cause it's textbook stuff.
We're happy to remove these penalties once an account has built up a track record of not doing that. We have no interest in punishing or excluding anybody. We're just trying to have an internet forum that hovers at least a little above the low-quality median. That doesn't seem like too much to hope for, but it happens to be nearly impossible on the open internet. Therefore we have to use everything we can along all three dimensions that compose this place: community, software, and moderation.
Your reply doesn't say my account was or wasn't yet it could be as well that my thoughts/posts aren't well liked. My thoughts are usually fringe.
Happy Holidays!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34119476
Incorrect, this has happened to me before and while being up about 10 points and not flagged I still got folded. I am perceiving a change in HN moderation, like Dang's starting to act different since the site's been growing, and I noticed particularly when he's on late at night, HN behaves a little differently.
I haven't devised a test for this particular late-night hypothesis, but you see the behavior enough times and you start to wonder, maybe I should be testing this.
Other than that, as other users have pointed out already, we might make a subthread collapsed by default. This is more common.
And sometimes threads of comments are "folded", and can only be viewed if you click the "X more" link to the right of the header. But I don't think they are usually removed completely.
I'm guessing you are referring to your comments in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116509? If so, the comments you are looking for are probably under the two "folded" threads at the bottom.
/s, since sarcasm on the internet is dead, and someone is bound to take this at face value. smdh
If you get flagged by the echo chamber, good luck.
My HN posting habbits have not changed, used HN for 5yrs+ but right after that point I will spend a long time composing a comment and the get "you're posting too fast" throttling my post rate and a few other "shadow" limits I noticed. I would have maybe 30min for HN and other sites like this so I would read comments/posts and maybe reply 3-4 posts in ~1-2h window (30min spread over that time), nothing changed on my end and I am not spamming anyone.
I may say things that sound offensive but unless you assume I am commenting in bad faith, I take care to post something valuable and relevant that won't ruffle anyone's feathers too much.
Who knows, I hate shadow moderation but I have no proof there is one on HN either other than circumstantial stuff like this and for what reason? Is it over a misunderstanding? Something I can correct?
I never been much of a joiner so it isn't just HN, everywhere I go I disagree with everyone that holds on strongly to any bubble or hive mind, I don't think that can be avoidee if you pursue truth with sincerity and apply critical thinking. But I also know it isn't just what you say but how you say it that matters, so I am confused a bit.
I have seen deleted comments long after the edit time expires just not on my own to answer your question.
All this said though, this a YC site with a specific audience and goals not a general purpose social media so I understand having to accept more moderation especially given the resource constraints of the moderators.
Just glad I didn't get banned I guess? Enjoy the holidays.
You will just lose downvoting feature until you reach again 500 karma I think, which I don't care about anyway, personally I'd find site better, if there was no downvote feature at all for everyone and all comments were visible and distinguished only by number of upvotes.
Btw I agree there should be very clear information about comment/post time limits, because it feels they are not applied equally to everyone and you can't really respond even to people responding to you. Then it seems like you can't provide arguments, while the reality is you are time limited while other people keep discussing about what you said. It would be better if these time limits didn't apply at least in your own reply thread where you are parent, only in other parents so you can't spam others. But honestly I don't have problem with time limits if they were transparently communicated.
I had to create new account since my account was brigaded or destroyed by bots, no matter what I posted pretty much everything receiving (insta)downvotes (sometimes within seconds), no such problems with new account (so much for this being conspiracy in my head).
I have an idea for a social network (for a lack of an adequate word), one of the rules would be you can't downvote without a comment and most moderation happens at the edge (clients apply moderation by user controlled settings) but harmful and illegal content can also be moderated through 51% consent of participants electing/certifying censorship authority in the authority domain.
With HN though, i wonder how much is manual vs algorithmic reaction to downvotes/flagging. Either way shadow modding goes against honest and valuable discord.
This.
That stupid color-/intensity-fading is one of a kind. Often these are just comments that brush against the grain / groupthink, but nevertheless are at least worthy of skim-reading, if not more! (Or flag it as offensive to or whatever, but keep it readable!)
I'm sorry, I know it's annoying, but it's one of the few (crude) software tools we have to try to dampen the decline of the site. If you build up a track record of not doing that, we'd be happy to take the rate limit off. I took a quick look at your recent comments and am still seeing some of those (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34118788).
Again, I don't criticize the measures you take just the lack of transparency and communication. I have no desire to debate your rules, just to undersrand them so that I can follow them.
I think you know like a sibling comment mentioned, how easy it is to just create a new account or be hostile/uncooperative. If you prefer that, your plan will work with most people (and eventually myself unless my writing style gives me up). Shadow moderation is an act of hostility which is unfair when we are being cooperative.