Ask HN: Do others with young kids prefer work to holidays?
My wife and I both work full time in technical/scientific jobs that we both trained a long time for. We like our work, generally speaking. We also have a history of liking to take time off to travel, etc.
However, since having a kid four years ago at ca. 40yo, we no longer enjoy extended time off when there is no childcare. It’s not that we don’t enjoy spending time with our kiddo, but it’s a lot more work, without any of the benefits of time off (sleeping in, taking naps, staying up late to do hobbies). Simply put, we get our asses handed to us every day.
At best we are ambivalent about holidays and even vacations. At worst, we dread extending periods of time off without childcare. I know we are very fortunate to have good-paying jobs with generous (by US standards) time off, so this is definitely a problem of privilege.
I wonder if anyone else feels similarly?
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 60.3 ms ] threadSometimes I have to force myself to take a little time and remember that these times are impressionable to my kids. They are gonna remember holidays. Maybe not perfectly but the gist them.
What did we value? Spending time with them? Something else?
It can be a good (but hard) thing to disengage and remember what’s important.
Even things like dishes, housework, going on walks—these are things that you can encourage them in. They can see your joy in them.
We do this with walks—it's also one of the main reasons why we have a Switch game console. Games like Mario Kart 8 are fun for the older kids but even younger kids can "play along" and not be a burden to the rest of the folks playing.
What's counter intuitive in some of this is that initially your enjoyment in these things _will be lower_. You're gonna have to slow down your walk. Take extra time to explain things. Let them try and fail. Sometimes you'll have redo what they've done. But what matters most is that they are included. They are part of the family—and their time with you and with the family is valued.
Take some of your time off when her school is in session so you actually get time off
When she does have long unavoidable time off, take her to family so your parents or uncles/aunts can share the fun and give you a breather
If you’re well off enough, get a temp full time nanny to accompany you on your vacation
The "terrible twos" are the year where a child changes from a baby into a person. You would think it happens slowly, but it actually happens in fits and starts.
Your kid starts refusing to eat anything but chicken nuggets and cheese puffs. They start ignoring their favorite toy for one you didn't even know existed. They insist on doing literally everything. (No, you can't use the belt sander. Please put the knife down. You can't drive, you can't even reach the pedals.) They are overjoyed to help with anything except what you asked. They won't stop grabbing the enraged, growling cat. They color on your bills, letters, books, and anything else within reach.
They refuse to watch anything but Paw Patrol. Nothing. But. Paw. Patrol.
Then they say "You're a good dad, I love you," out of the blue. They bring you things you need, even if you didn't ask. You type on your laptop, and they type on their "laptop" next to you. They pretend to make you a 6 course dinner. They go from absolutely refusing to ever sleep in your bed to explicitly demanding it every night.
Around this time last year, I played with blocks with my daughter. She would add single blocks to what I'd built and occasionally knock it all down. After a few minutes, she'd get bored and wander off. A few days ago, she asked me to play with the same blocks. She brought the bag, unzipped it, dumped them out, and started building a structure on her own. She was upset when it fell, but still liked knocking it down. She asked me for specific blocks and thanked me for getting them
I guess this is all a way to say that the fun part is coming up. Give your kid all the attention you can and they'll be just fine.
On a side note, a PSA about daycare: get your child in ASAP, unless they already hang around with kids their age. Around a year ago, my wife and I were worried because our daughter was a bit behind in development (especially in language). I could no longer WFH and take care of her, so we put our daughter into a nearby daycare. Almost immediately our daughter's development rocketed forward and has been great ever since.
It also very quickly becomes a 2 way street -- plenty to learn from them at the same time -- one just has to pay attention.
Literally a growth opportunity for all parties if you embrace and then extend! (Frowned upon seemingly with say web browser standards, very positive in raising children!).
Watching my 9 and 7 year old play taco vs. burrito as we speak.
Pre kids I was always building stuff, gardening, a little DIY and loads of drinking and eating out.
Now free time is either being pretty "unproductive" with the kids entertaining themselves but still needing watching, or doing the stuff they want to do.
It doesn't last long - and whether you do it or someone else does the kids will need someone to play with them and look after them - focus on supporting them to develop while remembering that you actually have near zero control over how they turn out.
And honestly, a 2nd child can massively lighten the load if they get on (or make things twice as hard if they don't...)
Kicking them out to grandparents/extended families is also a very popular way to claw back some lost sanity every year.
I find outside the US, where there is perhaps less focus on career, family is more of a primary focus. Personally most of the dread I'm familiar with is because of obligations elsewhere. Not having this obligations frees me to cherish time with kid, even if it's rough.
Kids are absolutely a lot of work. I find they are very reflective of the work, and the quality of the work, you put in. In America a lot of childcare is outsourced, which always felt strange to me.
Then again some people don't want to be full time parents, or parents at all, but still have kids. I don't totally understand that. If money were no object, I'd trade work for being with my kids full time in a heartbeat.
Parenting is difficult, often much more difficult than a professional job. You can find ways to trade naps and late nights with your spouse, and find ways to incorporate your child into things you enjoy doing to ease some of the strain.
Reality is that life as a parent is different than life only taking care of your own needs. It's not going to be the same, and hopefully you realized that when you had a child. A certain amount of dealing with this is going to be accepting that and learning to be ok with it, or even happy about it.
The good news is we have the holiday traditions and they all come back home for the holidays. You might want to take a listen to Harry Chapin's song Cats in the Cradle. You don't want to be that guy.
But the problem is, that sugar just keeps pouring in. More and more than you could ever eat. But you feel guilty and judged if you don’t eat it. And even if you like sweets, eventually you get sick of sugar and need something else - some time to yourself.
I've raised three kids. I know the importance of getting some time to yourself. I know there are times kids can be chaos. I know you're all-too-frequently operating on insufficient sleep. I know they can be very trying of your patience. I also know I spent every holiday with them - and now they spend them with me.
Wow. I couldn’t disagree more. This is some weird holier-than-thou helicopter parent stuff.
I watch my kids all day on the weekends and on the holidays. Plus I’m with them for at least four hours a day between drop offs, dinner, and homework/after dinner activities.
The post is about “extended” time off with the children - e.g. the week between Christmas and new year’s day. No definition of “child abuse” encompasses sending your kids to daycare for that week.
In most cases sane parents who have their young (<5-6 year old) kids in that week are going to wind up putting them in front of the TV or other electronics for part of the time anyway, just for their own sanity. In that case they are better off at daycare for that time.
Beyond that, it’s much better for the kids to have a couple of extra days of daycare and parents who are enthusiastic to see them, rather than a few days off with parents who are pulling their hair out trying to find non-tv and non-electronic ways to entertain them for something like 10 straight days.
Come on.
I'm sorry but parenting is a 24x7 job 365 days of the year. No one asked you to do it, you chose that yourself. But now that you've made that choice you gotta man up.
And yes, wanting to work so you don't have to be with your kids is a form of child abuse. Sorry not sorry you don't like hearing the truth.
They had plenty of time for themselves.
They'll have plenty of more time in retirement.
The fact is that working in some kind of white collar job is much, much easier that being at home with one or more young kids. If somebody tells you otherwise then they either lie or are have older children or their work conditions are very bad.
However the difficulty doesn't really matter. Your choice is between time with your kids and time away from your kids! Please, consider that discussion from yesterday about how short life is and that you only have a finite amount of holidays to pass with your kids. Think a little about it and maybe you'll avoid childcare on your holidays from now on.
In the instantaneous sense, this isn't true. Putting frozen chicken nuggets into an air fryer is easier than debugging a race condition in an asynchronous service.
Taking care of kids is hard in the same way as long-distance driving. It doesn't even require your full attention most of the time. What's difficult is keeping your attention up for hours, with no lapses.
A couple of years ago, I had to call Poison Control due to a brief lapse in attention. My daughter had been going through her diaper bag, which didn't concern me too much. A few minutes later, I found her chugging diaper cream out of the bottle. A quick call confirmed there wouldn't be any ill effects, but it was a tense few minutes until I'd confirmed that.
The work of tending to a child or three does not make your life more magical and fun and fit for transcription onto a greeting card. If it did we wouldn't so often think of it in terms of sacrifice. And you are sacrificing: your time, freedom, sometimes your peace of mind.
As parents we don't engage in this labor because it suddenly makes our vacations ring with poetry and glow with the golden light of an autumn afternoon. I think we mostly do it because we've brought a new small human into the world, and if you have an ounce of empathy and affection for this little person that cannot fend for itself then you want to protect it, nurture it, ensure its survival. These are powerful instincts. They are also important responsibilities.
If you follow through on them, do the work, and you're lucky to live long enough then one day you'll know your child as an adult who will be a friend rather than a dependent. You'll spend time together as equals. You'll be able to take vacations and enjoy them without disruption. You'll be able to sleep later, even though your body won't want to. You'll definitely take naps and will probably have hobbies. And then grandkids may come along :).
But in between there's the work. It's only about a quarter century's worth. It's definitely not always fun. It's sometimes memorable, and often heartwarming in a way that intensifies with memory and retelling. Ultimately it's just the stuff that needs doing when we create new humans. Best of luck with it! Every parent can use a little of that.
A great summary that echoes my experience.
I miss the vacation (holidays where one can relax). Having a 3 year old with us, as enjoyable as it is, keeps us always on guard for attending to his needs, and a lot of time keeping him entertained. That can be tiring if done for long.
During regular times, we have him when we don’t work, and the weekends. Having relatives or grandparents nearby to give even small breaks would help immensely, but as both expats we don’t have that luxury. When the grandparents visit and give us a few hours break, it feels so nice that I can’t describe how thankful we feel.
Sure, we get a babysitter to be with him about once it two weeks so we can have a little social time, but that just doesn’t stop me from feeling like you described..
Our friends who also have kids, but with grandparents nearby to help don’t feel this way.
Right now If you have enough money hire a nanny. You may be able to find someone for a couple hours everyday and that might help.
Also hire a cleaner/house keeper etc if the day to day chores are also interfering.
Some cruises include a kids club and there are sleep away camps in the summer.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Oh, definitely. Work is definitely more relaxing than taking care of my two kids (4 YO and 1 YO). For example, at work, if I feel like taking a 10-minute break and quietly having some tea, I just... can. No need to coordinate with my wife to cover me.
I think that's a core part of parenting: you shift from a "consumer" of fun (TV, reading, hanging out with friends) to a "producer" of fun for your kids.
My own tip: taking the kids out (to a museum, playroom, etc.) is actually LESS work than being at home, IMO. When you're at home, you need to think of new activities whenever the kids get bored. But when you're at the museum, there's just the 1 activity, and the museum itself does a lot of the heavy lifting.
Sick days were what I found troublesome, for there was generally wash to do, him to be picked up early from day care or later pre-k or school, and it all seemed more like quarantine than recuperation. Still, there were seldom more than three such days a year.