Love what Framework is doing but agree with the article conclusion. For now, the best laptop to me would be a MacBook Air running Linux. Perfect hardware, unmatched processor, very high build quality.
Asahi progress is so impressive, that it will probably be daily driver ready by next year!
Asahi is cool, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Framework will have passable support for Linux on day-one - Asahi is going on three years and doesn't have a webcam working. It's great that they've come so far, but it's still a far-cry from the support that first-party vendors can provide.
I think if you're just looking to buy the best laptop on paper, the Framework laptops aren't even going to be in the conversation. It's just inevitable that in order to fulfill their sustainability and repairability goals they simply had to compromise certain aspects of the design.
That being said, I've had my Framework 13 for just over a year now and it's a fantastic computer, none of the compromises affect me much, although I could believe that they could affect other peoples' workflows. For reference I'd previously used a 16-inch 2018 MacBook Pro for work and it was an absolute piece of shit compared to the Framework (I now have the 2022 M1 Max 16 inch MacBook Pro for work and it's in a league of its own tbh).
"Perfect" seems a bit overhyped, e.g. no oled, notch, keyboard, weight and size (e.g. compare to an x1 nano or xps 13 plus), limited ram, storage.
It no doubt is a nice machine, but all 2000+€ machines are nice (m2 air with ram and storage)
I guess we'll see how the Ryzen 7000 Framework laptop plays out in terms of power consumption but I have no complaints with my 6850u-based Thinkpad, the battery lasts for 11-14 hours and the parallel compile performance is top tier.
But the main advantage Framework offers to me as a remote worker is the ability to replace components without having my work machine be out of service while waiting for shipping+servicing.
I only wish Framework would do a better job at keeping their bespoke components in stock and available for overnight/same day shipping, maybe charge a premium or something.
The Framework laptop is particularly good if you have a family member who is clumsy or accident-prone because replacing the input cover (keyboard plus touchpad etc.) is dead simple. Replacing the screen is only slightly more complicated. You can replace the keyboard in isolation if you want or need to but that involves a lot more screws and is more fiddly so if you can afford the extra price for the whole input cover it may be worth saving the trouble.
He has had it for about 6 months now and he absolutely loves it. I'm about to replace the hinges with the stiffer variants.
I used to repair Dell business laptops circa 2004 and they were incredibly easy. Some models had swappable bays. Want an extra battery but don't need your CD-drive? Just push in a tab, pull out the CD-drive and insert an additional battery! Every part could easily be replaced by non-technical users. I know that because we had employees working as "computer technicians" that had no idea what "Windows Control Panel" was replacing motherboards, displays, hard drives, etc! Hard-drive, non-swappable CD-drives, RAM, modem were all done with a single screw.
I like the idea of Framework, but I just buy refurbed T-Series Thinkpads for those family members - Quite easy to repair too and those drainage holes saved the day again and again.
I love my framework, the screen is fantastic, the modularity is great. Only thing I can critique is the fact that it's USB ports on the first generation I have are mad finnicky, Docks and such are hit or miss with it.
But I'm a first-generation adopter, I am assuming these types of things are getting ironed out in future generations or have already been.
My business bought two 12th gen Frameworks. First one came with a half dozen different issues that should have been picked up during QC and support was pretty lackluster. We sent that back. The second one I've been using for about six months now and am reasonably happy with. Battery life could be better (under Ubuntu) and there's way too much wobble on the screen which is exacerbated by it being glossy.
On balance though, I would probably give them another go when this needs an upgrade.
I'm using my Framework for about a year now, and it's a worthy replacement for the lenovo x220 I had before. The lenovo had some broken plastic clips from the many times I disassembled it, imagine my excitement when framework announced they would use magnets instead! The only complaint I have is the battery drain in suspend, but it seems like this is an issue with the 11th generation Intel processor my mainboard bears. Not a great excuse by any means, but tolerable when weighted against the rest of the package. Now that they finally announced matte displays, the only things I'm missing is a better shell than the cheap looking aluminium alloy type they currently use and a trackpoint option.
Regarding battery drain in suspend, even if that specific issue gets fixed, the downside of user replaceable memory is that it is not low-power. In suspend, this means a battery life counted in days instead of weeks with regular LPDDR.
The x220 it replaced had a smaller battery and two ddr3 sticks instead of a single ddr4. It still lasted longer than the framework laptop when comparing suspend times, even with deep sleep enabled.
> the only things I'm missing is a better shell than the cheap looking aluminium alloy type they currently use and a trackpoint option.
The shell is my last remaining point against Framework; if their next generation has Thinkpad-level build quality or even if they sell such a shell under a separate "pro" model (and charge extra for it), there won't be any hurdles left.
> I don’t know if I will ever buy a Framework laptop. Most of my workflows now revolve around macOS,
Why we are reading opinion pieces from Apple sheep that does not known anything?
Framework has its place. But bigger problem is that industry is dominated by idiots, who should not be able to share their opinion, on things they did not even try!!!
I wish my framework would boot. I had a display failure that turned into a smoking mobo and ive been sending videos to support in an attempt to convince them that yes my smoking components are faulty.
This article is vapid. If you have never tried the laptop (nevermind purchase one), you are getting excited about what exactly?
Marketing? Intangible concepts?
From the article:
> I can appreciate the excitement generated by Framework’s computers even if I don’t ever buy one
> I don’t know if I will ever buy a Framework laptop.
Like many people, I have owned a series of laptops. The smartest hardware design has been the Framework. It is a pleasure to use and it is a Linux-first device as well.
At the low end of cost, Chromebooks have come a long way and provide very good value and functionality for the money. At the high end, the Framework is a smart, quality product that is unencumbered by Redmond and Cupertino.
I agree, but I'll agree more when there's a larger aftermarket for mainboards.
Frameworks are my latest "coolest thing I'll never buy". I love their Chromebook offering. I'm thrilled that they have AMD boards now. I can't wait to see what kind of stuff is going to be built out of the parts people replace as they upgrade. It's been amazing watching them continue to develop their products and grow in spite of global challenges.
But I'll probably never buy one because the MacBook Air and Gram are cheaper and more powerful, and my Chromebooks do everything I need for less than $200. I also don't think I really need project laptop newer than a T-series.
But man, I'd snatch up a second hand unit for $750 in a heartbeat.
I mean, if you're saying you will go for second-hand, that's just a way of onboarding yourself, because then you'll think "I could upgrade this for a little more money".
All Framework has to do for that effect to kick in is to keep going and building out to a critical mass, which they seem to be well-positioned for - they've got funding, industry hypemen championing the cause, and some "pretty decent" enthusiast products carving a path.
Repairability and customisability are what make the Framework laptops exciting. So yeah, you could fit those into either of your buckets (marketing or intangible concepts) depending on your perspective.
I'm not sure why one can't get excited about the Framework without owning one. I haven't bought a Framework because I already have a perfectly good laptop. But it's still great to see a laptop like this in the market and I hope that it (or something else inspired by it) is still around when I eventually do need to buy a laptop again.
> Sure, the MacBook Pro I’m writing this article on works incredibly well — it’s objectively the best laptop I’ve ever owned — but it’s also the same thing everyone else has.
The VPR Matrix laptop was somewhat interesting though, I never knew those existed. Looks pretty nice for 2005.
As a Framework laptop Linux user: I agree-- it's really not a Linux-first device, but they have done some work after launch to make the device more Linux-friendly.
They've brought on dedicated staff for Linux support (Matt Hartley) and utilized LVFS to deliver seamless firmware updates. They've also continued to address Linux specific hardware/firmware bugs, which many companies prefer not to deal with.
I'm really hoping to see this Linux-friendliness continue with out-of-the-gate support for their new releases, particularly the GPU situation on the 16". It's certainly laudable to respond quickly to the enthusiast community, but it's even better to launch products with some level of testing on major distros.
Framework is doing a good job narrowing the gap between its level of support for Windows and Linux. The Framework Laptop now officially supports 2 distros, Fedora and Ubuntu.
I have one of the first batches and I just recently bought a 12th gen and I can say QA. Is definitely noticeably better now vs the early batches to the point I would say it is on par with other mainstream offerings (while being way more interesting)
I see no use in splitting this follicle. The explicit option not to have an OS installed is intended for Linux users. I installed Linux and all the hardware works as intended.
Consider that larger vendors ship with Linux distributions pre-installed, and provide support for them.
Being open to people installing Linux isn't exactly the same thing as shipping it, even if the "support" some of those larger vendors provide is of questionable value.
I’m excited about new treatments for Alzheimer’s even though I don’t need them and don’t expect to. Products can make the world better and anyone can get excited about that.
People being excited from a distance doesn’t pay framework’s bills though, which kind of limits their ability to make the world better on an ongoing basis...
For the moment Framework computers don't do anything my current laptop can't but I'm very excited for their future. Maybe the next model will have full-height modules so we can add functionality to the top of the palmrest instead of just the sides.
Right now I'm in the second year with an LG Gram 17, and it's easily been the best laptop I've had in a long time. The only thing giving me pause about replacing it with another Gram is Framework. The idea of serviceability and being able to upgrade is really exciting - so much so I'll give Framework a try if the 16" model is available with a screen that is at least 2560x1600 (would prefer 4k) and 32GB RAM.
Considering I've got 64GB in their first model (13.5 inch, 11th gen) I think we can safely assume the 16" model will support at least 32GB. No idea what screen resolution it will support though.
Unfortunately framework doesn't fit my work laptop usage (core i9, 64gb ram, rtx 3080, etc) which are generally pretty chonky bois, and I don't replace my personal laptop until I have to so maybe in another 2-3 years when it needs to be replaced I'll take a look and see what they're offering.
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[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 87.1 ms ] threadAsahi progress is so impressive, that it will probably be daily driver ready by next year!
Currently I’m looking forward to being able to do gaming through wine on my MacBook with Asahi.
That being said, I've had my Framework 13 for just over a year now and it's a fantastic computer, none of the compromises affect me much, although I could believe that they could affect other peoples' workflows. For reference I'd previously used a 16-inch 2018 MacBook Pro for work and it was an absolute piece of shit compared to the Framework (I now have the 2022 M1 Max 16 inch MacBook Pro for work and it's in a league of its own tbh).
But the main advantage Framework offers to me as a remote worker is the ability to replace components without having my work machine be out of service while waiting for shipping+servicing.
I only wish Framework would do a better job at keeping their bespoke components in stock and available for overnight/same day shipping, maybe charge a premium or something.
He has had it for about 6 months now and he absolutely loves it. I'm about to replace the hinges with the stiffer variants.
No regrets whatsoever.
Maybe Framework has those too now though?
But I'm a first-generation adopter, I am assuming these types of things are getting ironed out in future generations or have already been.
On balance though, I would probably give them another go when this needs an upgrade.
The shell is my last remaining point against Framework; if their next generation has Thinkpad-level build quality or even if they sell such a shell under a separate "pro" model (and charge extra for it), there won't be any hurdles left.
Why we are reading opinion pieces from Apple sheep that does not known anything?
Framework has its place. But bigger problem is that industry is dominated by idiots, who should not be able to share their opinion, on things they did not even try!!!
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10622
1. Tell them the part was broken. 2. Send them a photo of the broken part and serial number at their request. 3. The replacement was on its way.
Perhaps they're a bit miserly with more expensive components like the mainboard.
Marketing? Intangible concepts?
From the article:
> I can appreciate the excitement generated by Framework’s computers even if I don’t ever buy one
> I don’t know if I will ever buy a Framework laptop.
Like many people, I have owned a series of laptops. The smartest hardware design has been the Framework. It is a pleasure to use and it is a Linux-first device as well.
At the low end of cost, Chromebooks have come a long way and provide very good value and functionality for the money. At the high end, the Framework is a smart, quality product that is unencumbered by Redmond and Cupertino.
Frameworks are my latest "coolest thing I'll never buy". I love their Chromebook offering. I'm thrilled that they have AMD boards now. I can't wait to see what kind of stuff is going to be built out of the parts people replace as they upgrade. It's been amazing watching them continue to develop their products and grow in spite of global challenges.
But I'll probably never buy one because the MacBook Air and Gram are cheaper and more powerful, and my Chromebooks do everything I need for less than $200. I also don't think I really need project laptop newer than a T-series.
But man, I'd snatch up a second hand unit for $750 in a heartbeat.
Why? ChromeOS is just a weirdo Linux distro. Any Framework should be able to run it. Why would you need a special machine to run one particular OS?
And, if you want a Chromebook, why would you spend more than $250 on one?
All Framework has to do for that effect to kick in is to keep going and building out to a critical mass, which they seem to be well-positioned for - they've got funding, industry hypemen championing the cause, and some "pretty decent" enthusiast products carving a path.
I'm not sure why one can't get excited about the Framework without owning one. I haven't bought a Framework because I already have a perfectly good laptop. But it's still great to see a laptop like this in the market and I hope that it (or something else inspired by it) is still around when I eventually do need to buy a laptop again.
> I don’t know if I will ever buy a Framework laptop.
vs your statement:
> I hope that it (or something else inspired by it) is still around when I eventually do need to buy a laptop again.
Atleast you are open to potentially owning one (subject to conditions, of course).
> Sure, the MacBook Pro I’m writing this article on works incredibly well — it’s objectively the best laptop I’ve ever owned — but it’s also the same thing everyone else has.
The VPR Matrix laptop was somewhat interesting though, I never knew those existed. Looks pretty nice for 2005.
It is a Windows-first device with an option not to have operating system and vibrant Linux community.
They've brought on dedicated staff for Linux support (Matt Hartley) and utilized LVFS to deliver seamless firmware updates. They've also continued to address Linux specific hardware/firmware bugs, which many companies prefer not to deal with.
I'm really hoping to see this Linux-friendliness continue with out-of-the-gate support for their new releases, particularly the GPU situation on the 16". It's certainly laudable to respond quickly to the enthusiast community, but it's even better to launch products with some level of testing on major distros.
https://frame.work/linux
Once they get QA up and built, I anticipate trying again. Until then, if the keyboard remains too hot to use comfortably its sort of a no-go.
I see no use in splitting this follicle. The explicit option not to have an OS installed is intended for Linux users. I installed Linux and all the hardware works as intended.
Being open to people installing Linux isn't exactly the same thing as shipping it, even if the "support" some of those larger vendors provide is of questionable value.