> It will reach its end of servicing in May 2024 (Home, Pro, Pro Education, and Pro for Workstations editions) and in May 2025 (Enterprise, Education, and IoT Enterprise editions).
So much for the 2025 end date I kept hearing. Only applies to the versions few people have.
Win 10 enterprise edition is not win 10 pro. Enterprise edition keys are used by people who need their software to have actual guarantees, like defense and aerospace.
Also people who want as much of the bloat and cruft cut out as humanly possible. I've been using W10 LTSC for years now as a daily driver, runs all of my games and apps no problem.
You're limited to 300 users on Microsoft 365 Business Premium, anyone over this limit will be on Microsoft 365 Enterprise, which includes an Windows Enterprise license.
I think, Win10 isn't THAT old, is it? Then I see it's been out almost 9 years. Running Win10 today is like running Win95 in 2004, 6 years after Win98, 3 years after XP.
> Running Win10 today is like running Win95 in 2004, 6 years after Win98, 3 years after XP.
Maybe I have just gotten old(er) but I remember being excited about Windows XP.
I had an Pentium 4 computer with 128 MB of memory and a 40 GB hard disk.
I was very excited to put Windows XP on that machine.
I got on Windows XP as quickly as I could but I am not so enthusiastic about Windows 11.
To compare, the current desktop version of Fedora Linux that came out a few weeks ago runs just fine on an old dell optiplex with i3-2100 processor and 4 GB memory. I have a 1 TB Samsung Evo 860 SSD on it but that's besides the point :)
That was a bit wacky for me to realize too, but on the other hand, windows 10 was marketed as the last windows, the eternal windows, updates forever and no new versions. So I think I had the expectation from the outset that I’d be using it a while.
I have one computer on Windows 10 and one on Windows 11 and see no operational difference. The Windows 10 desktop runs fine and cannot be upgraded to Windows 11 so it's a bit concerning that monthly security updates will end on October 14, 2025.
They also at one point said that Windows 10 would be security supported for the lifetime of devices bought with or migrated to Windows 10. My current desktop was bought with Windows 10 and my current Windows tablet was migrated from Windows 8 and neither has a processor recent enough to support Windows 11 according to Windows Update, I've not been in a hurry to replace or upgrade either device (known on wood) so "2 years left of security support" seems like a bad joke right now. The lovely world of artificial obsolescence.
I don't understand how that is artificial obsolescence. Micrsoft does not want to continue to pay for the programming talent to keep Win10 going. They have set a date to stop doing it. You are welcome to use those computers till they die, you can even use them with Win10. Your computers will just not be patched and secure.
Even more so, if you want them patched and secure, you can move to Linux. Nothing about Windows stops the hardware from working with another operating system.
Artificial obsolescence is when an Apple Device stops being patched and they put weird battery hacks in that confuse users into buying new devices.
LTSC is going to be supported until 2027. So they literally are going to be paying for the security update development anyway, but normal users just won't be able to get them.
Also, allegedly one of the points of the switch of a lot of Windows 10 to more of a service model was that a lot of things like security patches should in theory be shareable between Windows 11 and Windows 10 and should be updateable even without big "feature updates".
Some of it does raise the question how much Windows 11 is an artificial compatibility break with Windows 10 (which again, is mostly brought here because this is after they once said they didn't expect to do that again) and how much they were either wrong about the service model in the early Windows 10 days versus how much they are getting paid by PC OEMs to sell new computers and "force" hardware upgrades at a "regular cadence again".
> Nothing about Windows stops the hardware from working with another operating system
So, a Universal Audio UAD-2 DSP accelerator card now magically works on Linux along with the entire software ecosystem built on top of it? That's disingenuous to say the least.
A fraction of a percentage of Windows users do music production. A single-digit percentage (at best, probably more like another fraction) of them use UAD hardware. What the parent post said is, actually, applicable in the simple majority of cases. Buying expensive bespoke DSP hardware tied to a digital interface and platform wasn't a wise choice if you value longevity; digital recording has been around long enough to see these things come and go so that's kind of on you.
*EDIT for posterity: I'd like to note the lack of absolutisms or personal defamations in this post (contrary to what has been described below).
And? The point still stands: what was said simply isn't true, and this is why people come away dissatisfied by desktop Linux, because the people who say x are wrong.
I say this as a Fedora user, and people say it's never had any problems, yet Fedora 35 broke TimeShift for all users. Linux on servers? Great. Linux on desktops? Be honest with people about what the limitations are rather than talking in broad strokes. It's flakey. It's better than it used to be, but it's flakey.
Bold of you to assume I bought one or use one and to attack me for it. Speaks volumes and isn't in the spirit of the HN guidelines, but is absolutely par for the course for HN, and absolutely the typical Linux fanboy retort. By your same logic, people bought an "expensive" OS in the form of Windows 10, which is the topic of discussion.
Furthermore, "expensive" is relative. The accelerator is far cheaper than buying all the pieces of hardware it models in DSP. As tools go, it's cheap in terms of actionable value and resale value.
Linux has its place. It isn't for everybody. Stop pretending it is appropriate for the "majority" of cases when we are talking about people staying on Windows 10 for specific reasons who are likely power users with specific needs in the first place.
Shall we discuss the woeful state of compatibility of Linux with modern laptops where some but not all features work or they don't work well or they don't work consistently? I bought a ThinkPad to get a decent laptop experience with Linux. Even with that said, the dock connector doesn't work, that's a big selling point of buying a ThinkPad.
The reality is that Windows and macOS suits most people better than Linux because their software and hardware works today. Why switch to Linux and get less functionality out of your existing setup?
Microsoft clearly has no vision for Windows. One team gets a push to add more ads. Some team somehow wants to touch Notepad. It is all random and not coordinated.
I don't know why everbody keeps bringing this up. They could have called Windows 11 Windows 10 Gold Edition or whatever to keep the "10" in the name, but frankly we should all be thankful that they didn't.
I'm not joking, but will 2025 finally be the year of Desktop Linux?
Given the advances in Steam/Proton along with PopOS and Linux UI support in general and that most people have moved on from being tethered to most applications outside the browser... It seems like it could be a good time for many to make such a switch.
It's foolish to think that anything Microsoft does will trigger an exodus towards Linux.
Your typical non-technical user, if they decide they're fed up with the latest version of Windows adding more spyware/adware, is more likely to switch to a Mac than to Linux.
your typical non-technical user is totally unaware of any spyware and probably likes the ads, assuming they point to games, weather apps, and celebrity news sites
Given the advances, how possible is it to use Linux without ever touching the Terminal? Until the answer is "100% possible", it will never be the year of Desktop Linux.
It's also worth noting that desktop computers are dropping in popularity for home users. Gamers will use them for years to come, but the average non-technical home user that just wants a web browser and social media are more likely to opt for a tablet these days. If they REALLY want a keyboard and a larger screen, they'll probably get a laptop.
It's perfectly doable. I set up Linux Mint for a non-technical family member on a laptop almost a year ago. They use it for browsing the Internet, watching things on streaming services, etc. I just told them to click on the small shield icon that pops up in the system tray now and again to install system updates. I visited them yesterday and asked to see the laptop out of curiosity. It's fully updated, fast, and does everything they want.
When updates or apps go wrong on Windows, you sometimes need to use Powershell. Sometimes it's easier to use Powershell for admin tasks to avoid janky settings menus. What's the difference?
There are a lot of Linux distributions, but one of the things I bumped into with the early SteamOS version is it was really, really hard to get the command prompt. It was bugged and would fail until you got some environment settings, if I remember right. Games and the video drivers worked, however. Too funny.
Most folks are using a PC for games, surfing, and gmail. Linux works surprisingly well for those use cases and I really did not need to use a terminal for any of the normal setup. Ironically, cleaning up the crapware on my Windows 10 start menu... required powershell.
Given that I've had to either use the Command Prompt or Registry Editor to fix Windows on every installation I've had when it somehow messes itself up, I don't see how having to use the Linux terminal in similar situations is a big problem.
Imagine a generation, growing up with a gaming system that is not a windows pc. All it needs, is to be capable to do something that windows can not do. One killer feature. The momentum has shifted. And the youth has no preconceptions, as long as it works and offers methods to modify.
I’ve been impressed at how quickly the anti-cheat situation under Proton has improved. The only reason I keep a Windows install around at the moment is to play Warzone and Tarkov with mates. If you’re an Apex, Hunt or Day Z player, for instance, you can already get your game on thanks to recent improvements. 2025 doesn’t seem like a bad bet.
After 20 years I'm convinced it's never going to be the year of the Linux desktop.
Simple things still don't work, at least the last time I tried about 6 months ago. For example, display scaling is terrible compared to Windows and the remote desktop solutions haven't improved in 2 decades.
It's not even possible to install VNC on a stock Ubuntu 22.04 install without a bunch of screwing around because it doesn't work with Wayland. In Windows it takes 5s to enable RDP. In Linux it's frustrating to set up and, no matter what solution you choose, the experience is sub par vs Windows.
In Windows I can use WebAuthN over RDP. In Linux I can barely get a passable RDP solution.
The problem with Linux is that everything gets to 80% or 90% usable and then someone decides there needs to be a new improved version and the development results in years of broken crap. It happens over and over and over and the OS never gets to the point I would consider stable enough to rely on.
To be clear, I don't mean stable in terms of not crashing. I mean stable in terms of logging in and being able to do a day of work without the potential of having to screw around with something that's broken or not working.
AFAIK (and I could be wrong), that runs in the current user session, so it doesn't work for headless systems or systems that haven't been logged on.
And that kind of speaks to my complaint. I've used Linux for 2 decades and I can't even get remote desktop set up to allow me to switch between users / profiles. I can technically, and I've done it for Hyper-V enhanced session support, but it's a huge pain.
There's a neat script on GitHub to help with it for Hyper-V, but Google's tracking seems to be broken in a way that won't let me follow links from search, so I guess I'm just going to say screw it for the day and hope all the broken trash works better tomorrow. Lmao.
> And that kind of speaks to my complaint. I've used Linux for 2 decades
and you are still not sure "that runs in the current user session, so it doesn't work for headless systems or systems that haven't been logged on" - very weak point of Linux (in wide terms) ecosystem - YOU ARE NOT SURE.
Windows (in wide terms) gives you simple way - buy more RAM and be ASSURED. Simple action people can do and apply in their planning.
> In Windows I can use WebAuthN over RDP. In Linux I can barely get a passable RDP solution.
YEAH. And SmartCards forwaring. And...I was shocked couple of weeks ago when I was able to use my fingerpint scanner over RDP to login with 2FA. Just that thing is light years away on what other solutions can provide.
I'd love to see a decent package that includes Proton... I'm using a proton launcher written in Rust for a few Windows apps that seems to do okay, but I had to set my proton version in Steam to the one the launcher expects. I would think that it would be easy enough for someone more familiar with Wine and Proton to work through... not sure why the launcher doesn't have a more baked in dependency on Proton that it automagically loads on first use.
IIRC, there have been distros with a better WINE integration, though they haven't been particularly interesting to me. Given the popularity of MINT for starting users, that would probably be a good place to start from. But I don't know where their core team stands as far as the distro's direction.
>Windows 10 LTSC editions will reach the end of mainstream support in January 2027, with the only exception being the IoT Enterprise edition which will be supported until January 2032.
Well I'll wait until the first LTSC version Windows 11 is out (probably ~next year) and I upgrade then
70 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 150 ms ] threadSo much for the 2025 end date I kept hearing. Only applies to the versions few people have.
You get a few different features and entitlements.
All the Microsoft articles linked show the October 2025 date. I have no idea where the article is getting those dates from.
Died: May 2024^W^WOct 2025
Not a bad run!
I think, Win10 isn't THAT old, is it? Then I see it's been out almost 9 years. Running Win10 today is like running Win95 in 2004, 6 years after Win98, 3 years after XP.
Maybe I have just gotten old(er) but I remember being excited about Windows XP. I had an Pentium 4 computer with 128 MB of memory and a 40 GB hard disk. I was very excited to put Windows XP on that machine.
I got on Windows XP as quickly as I could but I am not so enthusiastic about Windows 11. To compare, the current desktop version of Fedora Linux that came out a few weeks ago runs just fine on an old dell optiplex with i3-2100 processor and 4 GB memory. I have a 1 TB Samsung Evo 860 SSD on it but that's besides the point :)
Gnome works just fine with 4 GB memory.
Even more so, if you want them patched and secure, you can move to Linux. Nothing about Windows stops the hardware from working with another operating system.
Artificial obsolescence is when an Apple Device stops being patched and they put weird battery hacks in that confuse users into buying new devices.
Some of it does raise the question how much Windows 11 is an artificial compatibility break with Windows 10 (which again, is mostly brought here because this is after they once said they didn't expect to do that again) and how much they were either wrong about the service model in the early Windows 10 days versus how much they are getting paid by PC OEMs to sell new computers and "force" hardware upgrades at a "regular cadence again".
So, a Universal Audio UAD-2 DSP accelerator card now magically works on Linux along with the entire software ecosystem built on top of it? That's disingenuous to say the least.
*EDIT for posterity: I'd like to note the lack of absolutisms or personal defamations in this post (contrary to what has been described below).
I say this as a Fedora user, and people say it's never had any problems, yet Fedora 35 broke TimeShift for all users. Linux on servers? Great. Linux on desktops? Be honest with people about what the limitations are rather than talking in broad strokes. It's flakey. It's better than it used to be, but it's flakey.
Bold of you to assume I bought one or use one and to attack me for it. Speaks volumes and isn't in the spirit of the HN guidelines, but is absolutely par for the course for HN, and absolutely the typical Linux fanboy retort. By your same logic, people bought an "expensive" OS in the form of Windows 10, which is the topic of discussion.
Furthermore, "expensive" is relative. The accelerator is far cheaper than buying all the pieces of hardware it models in DSP. As tools go, it's cheap in terms of actionable value and resale value.
Linux has its place. It isn't for everybody. Stop pretending it is appropriate for the "majority" of cases when we are talking about people staying on Windows 10 for specific reasons who are likely power users with specific needs in the first place.
Shall we discuss the woeful state of compatibility of Linux with modern laptops where some but not all features work or they don't work well or they don't work consistently? I bought a ThinkPad to get a decent laptop experience with Linux. Even with that said, the dock connector doesn't work, that's a big selling point of buying a ThinkPad.
The reality is that Windows and macOS suits most people better than Linux because their software and hardware works today. Why switch to Linux and get less functionality out of your existing setup?
Given the advances in Steam/Proton along with PopOS and Linux UI support in general and that most people have moved on from being tethered to most applications outside the browser... It seems like it could be a good time for many to make such a switch.
Every time a new release came out, it was going to be the one that finally would trigger the exodus towards Linux.
Yet the best Valve can do is "emulate" Windows, because not even the studios that target Android with NDK bother with GNU/Linux.
Your typical non-technical user, if they decide they're fed up with the latest version of Windows adding more spyware/adware, is more likely to switch to a Mac than to Linux.
Everyone is already happy with the devices they own and aren't in a rush to replace them.
How many million European users does that 2% Desktop Linux map to?
https://www.apple.com/legal/more-resources/dsa/mt/
Given the advances, how possible is it to use Linux without ever touching the Terminal? Until the answer is "100% possible", it will never be the year of Desktop Linux.
It's also worth noting that desktop computers are dropping in popularity for home users. Gamers will use them for years to come, but the average non-technical home user that just wants a web browser and social media are more likely to opt for a tablet these days. If they REALLY want a keyboard and a larger screen, they'll probably get a laptop.
When things go well, you sometimes need a terminal to avoid jankiness.
I guess a person who uses a pc in a very limited way might not notice, but then they could also use any os and achieve the same.
Most folks are using a PC for games, surfing, and gmail. Linux works surprisingly well for those use cases and I really did not need to use a terminal for any of the normal setup. Ironically, cleaning up the crapware on my Windows 10 start menu... required powershell.
It is quickly hitting that good enough stage.
Do you mean the appearance fonts when doing fractional scaling on a 4k. I don't see much difference between my Mac and Gnome on my 4k screens.
Simple things still don't work, at least the last time I tried about 6 months ago. For example, display scaling is terrible compared to Windows and the remote desktop solutions haven't improved in 2 decades.
It's not even possible to install VNC on a stock Ubuntu 22.04 install without a bunch of screwing around because it doesn't work with Wayland. In Windows it takes 5s to enable RDP. In Linux it's frustrating to set up and, no matter what solution you choose, the experience is sub par vs Windows.
In Windows I can use WebAuthN over RDP. In Linux I can barely get a passable RDP solution.
The problem with Linux is that everything gets to 80% or 90% usable and then someone decides there needs to be a new improved version and the development results in years of broken crap. It happens over and over and over and the OS never gets to the point I would consider stable enough to rely on.
To be clear, I don't mean stable in terms of not crashing. I mean stable in terms of logging in and being able to do a day of work without the potential of having to screw around with something that's broken or not working.
And that kind of speaks to my complaint. I've used Linux for 2 decades and I can't even get remote desktop set up to allow me to switch between users / profiles. I can technically, and I've done it for Hyper-V enhanced session support, but it's a huge pain.
There's a neat script on GitHub to help with it for Hyper-V, but Google's tracking seems to be broken in a way that won't let me follow links from search, so I guess I'm just going to say screw it for the day and hope all the broken trash works better tomorrow. Lmao.
and you are still not sure "that runs in the current user session, so it doesn't work for headless systems or systems that haven't been logged on" - very weak point of Linux (in wide terms) ecosystem - YOU ARE NOT SURE.
Windows (in wide terms) gives you simple way - buy more RAM and be ASSURED. Simple action people can do and apply in their planning.
YEAH. And SmartCards forwaring. And...I was shocked couple of weeks ago when I was able to use my fingerpint scanner over RDP to login with 2FA. Just that thing is light years away on what other solutions can provide.
Perhaps a distro solely focusing on Wine could clean up?
Tried a few things, but ended up reinstalling and having the Windows.old folder
IIRC, there have been distros with a better WINE integration, though they haven't been particularly interesting to me. Given the popularity of MINT for starting users, that would probably be a good place to start from. But I don't know where their core team stands as far as the distro's direction.
The core issue is that Linux wasn't designed around regular consumers but rather around pros/techies
This is why Android or even ChromeOS were able to penetrate consumer markets far more while being based on the same Linux kernel
Google prioritized easy, intuitive UI that any person can pick up easily without any prior knowledge
no terminal commands, no need to understand file-systems, no config-changes, no debugging errors
Apple has proved this is as crucial as the quality of the kernel/OS itself
What actions are you doing that require a terminal?
making two displays work properly with correct aspect ratio and refresh rate
buggy UI components that needed restart from terminal
Many features aren't fully accessible from the UI AFAIK
I actually tend to interact with Linux machine mostly via terminal because UI is so unreliable from my experience
If there's one thing that Linux does very poorly IMO, it is GUI (technically desktop environments but you get the point)
> making two displays work properly with correct aspect ratio and refresh rate
What was missing from the Gnome display settings? I have all those options.
Well I'll wait until the first LTSC version Windows 11 is out (probably ~next year) and I upgrade then
https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/commit/824c74574893...