There have been many comments regarding Asahi Lina that were outwardly hateful or borderline so. Some of it moderated, but definitely not all. I do not blame the project for not wanting to associate with HN.
The people who can't be heard here still click links. For some reason the terminally online think that banning people makes them disappear in the real world too.
I don’t know what the problem is in this particular case, but from experience in some other areas getting attention on here is not universally positive. If there is something on here about a specific language feature or issue then we do see a small uptick in informed and useful discussion, but also we sometimes see a much bigger uptick in comments that are uninformed, unhelpful, or just need to get deleted.
If that happened a few times to the Asahi Linux folks I can definitely understand them wanting to block this place.
The project itself is popular, but HN allows people to talk about the fairly compelling circumstantial evidence that Asahi Lina is marcan's alter ego. Per previous discussion, they have /home/marcan and /home/lina on the same box [0], have the same hostname [1], and have similar accents and speaking patterns [2]. Marcan is free to do this, but it's completely bizarre behavior acted out in public which is now impacting the actual Asahi project. Doing v-tubing under a pseudonym is one thing, but maintaining a sockpuppet contributor on a major open source project and pretending to interact with it is a giant red flag.
I had a hard time understanding what was going on but the upshot is these people are a bunch of narcissists that want to capitalize on the attention they're getting rather than work on their software, and now I know never to use Asahi Linux.
Sabotaging incoming traffic from a specific source with an audience that's generally very excited about your work is just lame. Especially so when you consider their problem with HN seems to be with the way it's being managed rather than its visitors.
The golden rule isn't so simple when different people have different ideas of what people would have.
For example, if the HN mods think they '[host] harassment and abuse that goes unchecked' they may actually want the HN mods to not allow referrals from them.
Or, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Differences_in_val... : "George Bernard Shaw wrote, "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same."[95] This suggests that if your values are not shared with others, the way you want to be treated will not be the way they want to be treated."
Reading even further in the Wikipedia article, you'll see '"doing as you would be done by" includes taking into account your neighbour's tastes as you would that he should take yours into account'.
Using technical measures to avoid someone's block would see, under that reading of the golden rule, seem to break the golden rule.
On a related topic, why do so many faiths have something like the golden rule, while also being male patriarchies where women are treated differently from men? Placing cultural restrictions on a woman that aren't place on a man would seem to fundamentally contrary to the golden rule.
A very interesting take that is entirely new to me and which I'm going to need some time to think about.
For context, the specific part of the comment (that is now hidden and inaccessible) that I responded to with my Golden Rule edit boiled down to: If other websites don't hold themselves to the Asahi code of conduct, why shouldn't the Asahi website be allowed to break them too?
it's way more lame to condone a site that lets harassment go by unabated. Asahi developers have emailed HN moderators and nothing has happened. The only responses are grandstanding points from moderators that pretend like they haven't been reached out to.
I would absolutely block traffic from a site like HN in that situation as well.
Discussed yesterday. Really, HN, please just disable the invasive outgoing referer tags from ALL outbound links, now that that is possible.
Yes I know (as someone commented yesterday) that the target sites would like the info for their own analytics and marketing. But they would also like your email, income, sexual orientation, mothers maiden name, etc. The whole concept of privacy is that all those entities out there who want that info aren't automatically entitled to get their wish. The overlapping topic of "security" is about resisting even forceful attempts to get the info. Once HTTP escaped environments like CERN, referrers should have always been treated as private.
Building a good case where that sites should only have so so a hand in picking security/privacy levels for folks. These should be user tailorable with our agents or via preferences we can expose to sites.
For now I'd often opt to DO_NOT_REFERER=0. Most sites from here are welcome to my referrer, may have that inboard thing.
I don't think HN should be trying to associate with people who go out of their way to say that they don't want to associate with HN and to a certain extent I do think that if you don't understand why they don't want to associate with HN that indicates you might have some blind spots about HN. Ain't like they're the first to feel this way (hi jwz)
Their post recently telling everyone to just get over X and use wayland really bugged me and did not come across as a dev making their pitch to convince everyone why it would be a good idea, nor a dev apologizing that they don't have time to do everything and they're picking one thing to spend their time on, rather a dev saying we don't care we're only working on this and if you don't agree you're backwards and wrong.
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[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 102 ms ] threadThis place is the iceberg meme basically.
If that happened a few times to the Asahi Linux folks I can definitely understand them wanting to block this place.
[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35242010
[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601
[2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601
I had a hard time understanding what was going on but the upshot is these people are a bunch of narcissists that want to capitalize on the attention they're getting rather than work on their software, and now I know never to use Asahi Linux.
Not very welcoming, helpful, considerate, or respectful at all. https://asahilinux.org/code-of-conduct/
In response to @anlaw below: The golden rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
For example, if the HN mods think they '[host] harassment and abuse that goes unchecked' they may actually want the HN mods to not allow referrals from them.
Or, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Differences_in_val... : "George Bernard Shaw wrote, "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same."[95] This suggests that if your values are not shared with others, the way you want to be treated will not be the way they want to be treated."
Reading even further in the Wikipedia article, you'll see '"doing as you would be done by" includes taking into account your neighbour's tastes as you would that he should take yours into account'.
Using technical measures to avoid someone's block would see, under that reading of the golden rule, seem to break the golden rule.
On a related topic, why do so many faiths have something like the golden rule, while also being male patriarchies where women are treated differently from men? Placing cultural restrictions on a woman that aren't place on a man would seem to fundamentally contrary to the golden rule.
For context, the specific part of the comment (that is now hidden and inaccessible) that I responded to with my Golden Rule edit boiled down to: If other websites don't hold themselves to the Asahi code of conduct, why shouldn't the Asahi website be allowed to break them too?
I would absolutely block traffic from a site like HN in that situation as well.
Yes I know (as someone commented yesterday) that the target sites would like the info for their own analytics and marketing. But they would also like your email, income, sexual orientation, mothers maiden name, etc. The whole concept of privacy is that all those entities out there who want that info aren't automatically entitled to get their wish. The overlapping topic of "security" is about resisting even forceful attempts to get the info. Once HTTP escaped environments like CERN, referrers should have always been treated as private.
So please, HN, please shut off those referrers.
For now I'd often opt to DO_NOT_REFERER=0. Most sites from here are welcome to my referrer, may have that inboard thing.
It's definitely an anti-privacy feature.
I'd just shut it off in the browser except for occasional utility like search result links bypassing paywalls.
And then this.
Ok.