What's to stop Ford from not paying their workers?
Reddit mods already work for free and are mostly in it for the minute power they get. Admins overriding that would cause an exodus and then the quality of the subs would tank overnight.
As others have said, nothing, which is why it is important to those seeking to maintain some sort of online community to both stand up alternatives and backup as much of Reddit as possible for future reference and possible backfill capabilities.
Digg didn't go away, its audience left, for example. The value is in the ongoing community activity and participation.
Reddit already has a process for anyone to claim subs who's admins are inactive. Usually they have to be inactive for several months, but I wouldn't be surprised if they made an exception in the near future.
>Don't overthink this. It doesn't matter which instance you use.
Nah. Disagree and I don't even know why is this highlighted. It really does matter what you choose. Same with Mastodon.
Each instance has an admin who can do whatever they want (eg delete the instance and permaban you) and on top of that each topic has a mod too. Plus your instance can be de-federated by others (what if your instance end up being a far right honeypot?)
The usual reply is that "but but then you can just move to another instance" but this is basically where the federated system fails for average people.
Just like with Mastodon the only way to use a federated system is self hosting a single user instance for your own profile.
And those would be good arguments, if the SMTP landscape looked different. I think the OP's views would be best summarized by "either host your own server, or go back to Reddit". Similarly, you shouldn't be using random-joe.biz as your SMTP host. You should use Google, Fastmail, or a handful of other reputable providers you can probably count on one hand. Or host your own server.
The difference is that email is private. The contents of your email are not seen as being endorsed by Google just because you have an @gmail.com address, so Google doesn't have an incentive to ban you just because they find your politics odious.
In the fediverse calls to defederate happen pretty regularly, and the reasoning is sound—your instance will be publicly mirroring any content on a federated instance, so if you don't want to publicly host extremist views (from either wing) your only option is to defederate from instances that allow them.
Banning in the email world means having your messages dumped into a junk folder. Or worse having your IP address in a reject list so its impossible to operate a private server.
I heard that the ActivityPub protocol is pretty inefficient when you have lots of small instances, so I would think joining an existing instance should be preferred.
I'm not sure why you think that switching instances is too hard for avg people but running your own isn't?
> the ActivityPub protocol is pretty inefficient when you have lots of small instances
This seems like a pretty fundamental design flaw. It means that redundancy is there—you can always find another instance if you're made homeless—but self-sovereignty was not prioritized in the design.
The kind of person who's attracted to the idea of federation is going to be disproportionately likely to want to self-host, so the system should be designed from the outset for at least tens of thousands of instances.
> The kind of person who's attracted to the idea of federation is going to be disproportionately likely to want to self-host
That's not my experience on Mastodon. Most people seem to be on shared instances. Very few people self host. It's mostly tech affine organisations who self host.
I didn't say most people would want to self-host, I said they would be disproportionately likely to want to.
To make up some numbers: if 0.001% of the general population wants to self-host, maybe 0.1% of fediverse users would if it were easier. Even with tiny percentages, there are still a lot of small instances and the protocol should have been designed for that.
The protocol is fine for federation without any sort of centralization - though this causes some problems to be noted. The servers... less so. The servers have difficulty when something goes viral (and the content that it links to may also have trouble as noted in https://mastodon.social/@jwz/109411593248255294 (even though this is jwz, this link is safe))
If you have a small mastodon instance that has a member that has a post that goes viral, instead of trying to handle a handful of federation threads that your users are doing to pull content in you've now got hundreds of other sites trying to pull content from your site to theirs.
For a small site, this can completely consume all the treads.
A user on your site going viral can inadvertently DDOS the site. A widely followed user posting a link to some content can DDOS that content as every instance of mastodon wants a preview thumbnail of it now. This is known as a stampede.
> The problem arises when a federated user with a high number of followers shares a post, or boosts (Mastodon’s term for sharing another user’s post) on their timeline. The core protocol for coordinating and sharing information among Mastodon instances is ActivityPub. When a user shares a post, it is published via ActivityPub to the Mastodon instances of all of that user’s followers. When an instance gets a new post that contains a link, it makes a request to that link to generate a preview. The process happens automatically.
> This creates the fan-in problem. A user with 100,000 followers posting a link to coolthing.example.com has effectively acted as a command-and-control for 100,000 processes to hit coolthing.example.com.
Maybe it is still possible to fix the protocol. I think it's pretty impressive that it does work so well in practice (from a non-self-hosting users perspective)
Note the 'federation capacity' which is described further down.
If you are federating to many sites (because your users are following many users across different sites), that can get expensive in terms of time/network/cpu.
Even if you are self hosting, it is most efficient if your users tend to follow other users at a limited number of other sites so that the processing threads don't get too congested. Furthermore, if something on your instance goes viral and everyone starts boosting it and following your sites users it can significantly impact the performance.
If you are expecting to be making connections to tens of thousands of instances, the cost of an instance for that network / cpu load is going to be significantly higher than the average person can support / administer / host.
This gets to a bit of a paradox - the more you want to distribute and federate, the more expensive it is to stand up an instance and the more market forces will encourage users to go to the central hosts.
I'm reading through the docs now trying to understand how identity works, it seems like a blind spot to me, how to prove you are who you say you are when you move to a new instance. I don't know anyone that gets it right IMO, to allow self-soverign identities to post from multiple services, public-key-pair style. Mostly there's bad tradeoffs there for UX ("reset password" is just way nicer for everyone than "social key recovery") but I was recently swayed by KERI (key event receipt infrastructure) which seems to have thoroughly thought through these things, but it's new enough that no ones building with it that I've heard of.
This is my biggest issue with current federation implementations, your ability to communicate with people on other instances depends entirely on the whims of your (and their) local BOFH.
frankly, yes? the reddit admins didn't care about anything, really, and very rarely went on banning sprees. when they did it was just deleting subreddits that were regularly posting about wanting to kill people. and in those cases it didn't require thousands of other random people who just happened to be using an instance but weren't part of that stuff to create a new account on a different website, it just got rid of that one community.
the real problem isnt always your local bofh, it's the other bofhs, and it's the fact that your friend's local bofh who has a tiny fiefdom of a few thousand users can unilaterally cut off access between those users and the few thousand people on your instance.
i'm not going to go so far as to say "centralization is good", but in a centralized system, a personality clash between a couple internet janitors might lead to a new subforum being made that a few users might choose to go to. in a decentralized system, a personality clash between internet janitors leads to platform-wide technological incompatibilities for thousands of users who have nothing to do with it.
Yes, I was hit by this downside as I signed up for Mastodon.se, a big and seemingly "safe" (as in not to be suddenly shut down) general interest Mastodon instance used by tens of thousands. Well, and so it happened that some other instances began defederating it because it allowed members of any political party to join it, not blocking far right users. The admin didn't have resources or interest for such a kind of political moderation despite where no freedom of speech was being violated to boot. As he just ran the instance as a hobby project, he had to shut down because he lost interest when his instance was drawn into negative light.
So BOOM and tens of thousands Mastodon users had to migrate instance. The problem now was that you try to learn from past mistakes but realize that many other large instances aren't that transparent about funding models and how willing they are to work with these issues. You have alternatives but most others are also just "some guys who run this instance and provide a server for a community".
I don't think I really bounced back to Mastodon since then even if I did migrate. But it didn't feel the same when we were on this shaky ground.
> what if your instance end up being a far right honeypot?
Why does it have to be a honeypot?
Agree on the importance of choosing a server, they tend to have a distinct couleur locale. It is far more likely that you'll end up on a far-left server when you're using Lemmy. The most popular server is Aspiring to be(e) a safe, friendly and diverse place, under that lies one which proclaims itself to be A collection of Marxist communities, for memes, learning, news, discussion, media, or anything you like followed by A general purpose lemmy instance for queer and gender diverse folk, and their allies and one advertising itself as hosting Communities for furries by furries. If there are any right-of-centre Lemmy servers I have not come across them.
> Nah. Disagree and I don't even know why is this highlighted. It really does matter what you choose. Same with Mastodon.
This was my initial response as well, but realistically I rotate reddit accounts every few months anyways (I prefer the anonymity that codes with), so I can just do the same for lemmy. Try a server for a bit, and then move to a server when I find a better one. Treat it as ephemeral.
I think it matters significantly less with Lemmy than it does with Mastodon/Pleroma/etc.
For one, it's pretty low-stakes: With Mastodon, you lose your followers, your posts, and your platform. It's hard to start from scratch, unless you have a chance to move house with the “migration” tool. Lemmy accounts are, comparatively, much more disposable. You can move house at the drop of a hat and it doesn't matter too much; your new profile has fewer comments in its history, who cares? People don't follow _you_, after all, they follow the _community_.
If you pick a bad server, just make a new account, no problem.
It's not a problem of federation, it's a problem with ActivityPub or at least the networks built on it. The current system is echo-chambery in nature because your instance owner does not only control your own speech being hosted there, but also who you're allowed to read from your feed and who you're allowed to talk to.
It may be intentional, it may be due to a byproduct of how the federation details are implemented, but regardless of how it came to be the end result is an undesirable protocol for discourse and as far as I'm concerned, not worth the effort compared to just switching to scraping Reddit until a worthwhile federated social network appears.
Having run a Mastodon solo instance for a while now, I disagree on several points...
Mastodon has very few federation blocks built-in. Truth Social and Gab are about it. In both cases, the defederation is mutual, because even those two cesspools don't wanna mix effluence with each other, never mind the rest of the "libtards" in the wildly diverse and worldly Fediverse. They've chosen to be siloed.
So that pretty much demolishes the idea that even Mastodon is somehow intrinsically "echo-chambery". There are, again, no other built-in domain blocks.
If Mastodon is "echo-chambery" it's because the alternative is to remain federated with absolute cesspools. I made it 3 months running my instance before I had to start banning whole domains. There's multiple websites to help Mastodon admins curb the incessant shitstorm that exists in the Fediverse. Whole troll farms do nothing but pump out juvenile invective at innocent users... hundreds of posts with nothing but the N-word, K-word, F-word and detailed rape threats.
Again... this is happening on ActivityPub, right now.
You tell me... is it creating an echo chamber to ban Nazi scum?
it's not actually clear to me who mods the communities. I created a couple, but don't see any tools to do any moderation, and looking at the docs, it seems it's the instance mods who would do it, and low-level stuff (reporting, blocking) can be done by any user
I haven't investigated too thoroughly though. I really have no interest in investing that kind of time, which is a problem in growing a new place in and of itself
The neat thing about federated social media is you don't have to federate with tankies even if you use their software. kbin appears to have some trouble working with Mastodon. My experience so far is boosts and replies on Mastodon are the #1 driver of new signups to the Lemmy instance I'm on, so it matters.
Kbin works better with mastodon, but the software is also newer, and the main instance is run by the single dev. They are currently behind cloudflare which disturbs federation.
kbin's in PHP/Symfony - I wonder how its instances will handle scaling, considering even (Rust-based) Lemmy instances are facing issues with the not-even-that-massive influx of visitors. Also, I like kbin's design better, but calling topics/subforums "Magazines" is a bit strange.
Wish there were one or two more good options in other languages. I know about Calckay/Misskey but they seem more microblog-like and not organised by topic at the top level.
Being able to port identity and posts/content between ActivityPub servers also seems like an issue, but I don't know if any major project has already solved that.
The bottleneck in web apps very rarely is in hot loops that benefit from native-code speed. Most of the time you spend waiting for an HTTP response is either waiting in line to be processed or waiting for the database or other external services to do the heavy processing. Optimizing on web means ensuring you're processing the queue efficiently and making fewer, more efficient database calls.
I'm not familiar with either implementation, but I wouldn't place an a priori bet on Rust over PHP for web. We've had many many years to figure out how to build efficient PHP apps and very little time to figure that out in Rust.
I like Lemmy’s stack etc. and do not want to spread some 'FUD' but are tankies (or alt-right) just politics? I think it is bit different than being liberal using software by conservative developers (or vice versa).
It depends on whether or not the author's politics bleed into the software or somehow influences the user-base; which could be disasterous. I think with Lemmy, though, there isn't much risk for that.
There are literally advocates for a genocidal state. Their politics are going to bleed over into the software eventually. To think otherwise is deeply naive.
> The fact they own the software means they can make it easier or harder to surprise or spread certain messages, and do so in very subtle ways.
I just can’t imagine how, honestly! It’s not exactly trivial to programmatically hinder certain messages in a way that others won’t notice and complain about — as they did when Lemmy had hard-coded blacklists for slurs.
If anything, they'd abuse their control of the Lemmy.ml server, like you said.
All you have to do is do something like sneak in telemetry, add some sort of back door, who knows.
There are near infinite opportunities for a bad actor to sneak bad code in, so when you're dealing with a bad actor you just don't trust anything they do.
Running code from people who are tied to an authoritarian government is not something you should be doing ever.
It matters deeply when the people who run and develop the platform support something that simply shouldn't be supported, and at the end of the day even if they don't control the federation they do control a significant chunk of the direction and policies of the federation.
It would be like encouraging everyone to move to a place like voat. Don't give random extremists to the opportunity to control media or any form of narrative.
I honestly don't think the Lemmy developers have any control other than that over lemmy.ml. And with Lemmy’s user-base spreading out to use other servers, their influence is decreasing more and more each day.
What do you mean by that? Isn't Lemmy one of those projects where anyone can run an instance? Or are you referring to the developers?
And could you please also elaborate what you mean by Chinese state apologists?
Anyone can run an instance but the main one is run by people who actively support states like China. You just go on there and read it for like 10 minutes and you'll find it.
I guess I don't understand that criticism. I'll just host my own instance, why would I care about the "main" instance. It's a criticism of the people on that platform and not of the platform itself...
I think we all want a viable Reddit alternative (and Twitter alternative), but the “fediverse” isn’t it. Why?
1. New user experience is very confusing. You have to learn a bunch of dorky sounding terminology right away (instance, fediverse/federated, etc), and there are a whole bunch of instances to choose from, but none of them may be particularly appealing or relevant to you specifically.
2. At least on Lemmy, I’m actively discouraged from signing up. And even if I ignore that, I have to fill out an application for an account that includes a personal statement on why I want to join Lemmy. Great, Lemmy can do whatever it wants, but it’s not a Reddit killer with a process like this.
Point #1 is accurate, but #2 is actually just you getting confused by #1—lemmy.ml is discouraging new signups by encouraging you to use one of the many other instances.
I agree that the whole federation thing is way more confusing than insiders understand.
> New user experience is very confusing. You have to learn a bunch of dorky sounding terminology right away (instance, fediverse/federated, etc), and there are a whole bunch of instances to choose from, but none of them may be particularly appealing or relevant to you specifically.
For technical discussions, this is a feature not a bug. Having a small technical hurdle to get over before contributing is a filter when it comes to having technical conversations that aren’t immediately shit up by low effort content.
The somethingawful forums are STILL around despite not being relevant in popular internet culture for almost 2 decades. Paying a one time $10 fee to post kept out people who weren’t really interested in contributing to the conversation.
Reddit is a massive social website. The vast majority of the value of Reddit comes from the fact that it's humongous. A niche community that tries to filter out most people isn't a Reddit replacement.
I think some people are talking past each other when referring to a "reddit replacement" by focusing on different aspects and even different eras of reddit.
Speaking for myself, I would love to see some of the features reddit popularized be brought to a replacement. However, I'm not at all interested in a one-to-one replacement of reddit in its current form, especially if we take "current form" to mean what a typical user would experience joining the site today.
Yeah I think Reddit is different things to different people. I personally spent a lot of time in hobby subreddits and in my city's local subreddit which at times was really an amazing way to find out about all sorts of cool events.
Not the fee for the certification but the recurring certification itself as a barrier for engineers to build something so buildings don’t fall apart for example.
Regarding 1.: In my memory, Reddit was just as confusing to newcomers, with all their terminology. What are these words people keep mentioning here? sub, GP, OP, flair, gold, sidebar, ...
Twitter also took me ages to understand what RT and HT and via was supposed to mean and what the difference was between retweets and replies and stars (that are now likes?)...
> Took me less than an hour to register and get comfortable with Lemmy.
Do you really not see the problem? For Lemmy to face any hope of becoming mainstream your statement should be "less than 5 minutes".
Maybe that barrier to entry is a pro to you, and that's fair, but surely you understand the criticism that a social network should be usable without reading a guide, yes?
* This "less than one hour" I'm talking about includes really being familiar with the UI, concept and new terminology.
* I'm not really concerned if Lemmy becomes truly mainstream. I just find it funny that the crowd in HN of all places is so helpless that reading a FAQ and learning a few new names for basically old concepts is so bad that it needs to be constantly complained about. How on earth would these people have survived the pre-2010 internet?
* I did not need to read a guide, just a short FAQ and some fiddling around to understand the concept.
Does lemmy has somethings like /r/all? Across all instances?
I'm not interested in subscribing to specific communities. The way I
used reddit most of the time was browsing on /r/all using RIF and then I
blocked all subreddits I didn't want to see again (a feature of RIF, you
don't even need an account).
I (sadly) doubt Lemmy will be it in terms of a reddit replacement (if reddit is to actually lose it's users).
I just really hope it's not discord who will replace it but I fear they have a good shot. And while discord is great for real time communication with others passionate about a topic, it's worse at sorting, ranking and finding old information.
I'm the author of this post. I originally posted it here, but it didn't get a single upvote. This isn’t my first time getting on the frontpage of hackernews, but it always happens when someone else reposts my link.
What is the difference between Lemmy and Mastodon?
I am very confussed at the moment. I am trying to understand how Lemmy works and then there is people saying that you can read stuff from Mastodon on Lemmy.
To use a simple analogy, Lemmy is like a federated reddit while Mastodon is like a federated twitter.
They are both built ontop of ActivityPub, which is the messaging protocol that enables these technologies.
I'm still reading and understanding the topics myself as I continue to deeper my understanding of these platforms. It helps to also poke around and use them a little bit. This helps me gain an understanding of how they work.
I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to aggregate all the programming forums into a single view. Does anyone know if that is possible? I think the first app that implements this will be a leader in the "Lemmy Revolution". As it stands I have to separately visit redundant forums to see what's going on in the community.
Asking a question seems like it has the same problem. I have post my question/article in multiple places to interact with different people that have the same interests.
I think the main thing I'm missing from Lemmy is the ability to work backwards to find a community.
For example, a less-mainstream band I liked posted a new pair of songs last night. With reddit, I could search (via Google most likely) to find a subreddit where this news was posted, and use that to determine that yes, I would like to join this subreddit.
103 comments
[ 0.19 ms ] story [ 71.4 ms ] threadReddit mods already work for free and are mostly in it for the minute power they get. Admins overriding that would cause an exodus and then the quality of the subs would tank overnight.
Digg didn't go away, its audience left, for example. The value is in the ongoing community activity and participation.
Nah. Disagree and I don't even know why is this highlighted. It really does matter what you choose. Same with Mastodon.
Each instance has an admin who can do whatever they want (eg delete the instance and permaban you) and on top of that each topic has a mod too. Plus your instance can be de-federated by others (what if your instance end up being a far right honeypot?)
The usual reply is that "but but then you can just move to another instance" but this is basically where the federated system fails for average people.
Just like with Mastodon the only way to use a federated system is self hosting a single user instance for your own profile.
In the fediverse calls to defederate happen pretty regularly, and the reasoning is sound—your instance will be publicly mirroring any content on a federated instance, so if you don't want to publicly host extremist views (from either wing) your only option is to defederate from instances that allow them.
I'm not sure why you think that switching instances is too hard for avg people but running your own isn't?
This seems like a pretty fundamental design flaw. It means that redundancy is there—you can always find another instance if you're made homeless—but self-sovereignty was not prioritized in the design.
The kind of person who's attracted to the idea of federation is going to be disproportionately likely to want to self-host, so the system should be designed from the outset for at least tens of thousands of instances.
That's not my experience on Mastodon. Most people seem to be on shared instances. Very few people self host. It's mostly tech affine organisations who self host.
To make up some numbers: if 0.001% of the general population wants to self-host, maybe 0.1% of fediverse users would if it were easier. Even with tiny percentages, there are still a lot of small instances and the protocol should have been designed for that.
If you have a small mastodon instance that has a member that has a post that goes viral, instead of trying to handle a handful of federation threads that your users are doing to pull content in you've now got hundreds of other sites trying to pull content from your site to theirs.
For a small site, this can completely consume all the treads.
A user on your site going viral can inadvertently DDOS the site. A widely followed user posting a link to some content can DDOS that content as every instance of mastodon wants a preview thumbnail of it now. This is known as a stampede.
https://www.networkworld.com/article/3682129/surviving-a-mas...
https://www.netscout.com/blog/mastodon-stampede
> The problem arises when a federated user with a high number of followers shares a post, or boosts (Mastodon’s term for sharing another user’s post) on their timeline. The core protocol for coordinating and sharing information among Mastodon instances is ActivityPub. When a user shares a post, it is published via ActivityPub to the Mastodon instances of all of that user’s followers. When an instance gets a new post that contains a link, it makes a request to that link to generate a preview. The process happens automatically.
> This creates the fan-in problem. A user with 100,000 followers posting a link to coolthing.example.com has effectively acted as a command-and-control for 100,000 processes to hit coolthing.example.com.
Maybe it is still possible to fix the protocol. I think it's pretty impressive that it does work so well in practice (from a non-self-hosting users perspective)
https://masto.host/pricing/
Note the 'federation capacity' which is described further down.
If you are federating to many sites (because your users are following many users across different sites), that can get expensive in terms of time/network/cpu.
Even if you are self hosting, it is most efficient if your users tend to follow other users at a limited number of other sites so that the processing threads don't get too congested. Furthermore, if something on your instance goes viral and everyone starts boosting it and following your sites users it can significantly impact the performance.
If you are expecting to be making connections to tens of thousands of instances, the cost of an instance for that network / cpu load is going to be significantly higher than the average person can support / administer / host.
This gets to a bit of a paradox - the more you want to distribute and federate, the more expensive it is to stand up an instance and the more market forces will encourage users to go to the central hosts.
I'm reading through the docs now trying to understand how identity works, it seems like a blind spot to me, how to prove you are who you say you are when you move to a new instance. I don't know anyone that gets it right IMO, to allow self-soverign identities to post from multiple services, public-key-pair style. Mostly there's bad tradeoffs there for UX ("reset password" is just way nicer for everyone than "social key recovery") but I was recently swayed by KERI (key event receipt infrastructure) which seems to have thoroughly thought through these things, but it's new enough that no ones building with it that I've heard of.
the real problem isnt always your local bofh, it's the other bofhs, and it's the fact that your friend's local bofh who has a tiny fiefdom of a few thousand users can unilaterally cut off access between those users and the few thousand people on your instance.
i'm not going to go so far as to say "centralization is good", but in a centralized system, a personality clash between a couple internet janitors might lead to a new subforum being made that a few users might choose to go to. in a decentralized system, a personality clash between internet janitors leads to platform-wide technological incompatibilities for thousands of users who have nothing to do with it.
So BOOM and tens of thousands Mastodon users had to migrate instance. The problem now was that you try to learn from past mistakes but realize that many other large instances aren't that transparent about funding models and how willing they are to work with these issues. You have alternatives but most others are also just "some guys who run this instance and provide a server for a community".
I don't think I really bounced back to Mastodon since then even if I did migrate. But it didn't feel the same when we were on this shaky ground.
Why does it have to be a honeypot?
Agree on the importance of choosing a server, they tend to have a distinct couleur locale. It is far more likely that you'll end up on a far-left server when you're using Lemmy. The most popular server is Aspiring to be(e) a safe, friendly and diverse place, under that lies one which proclaims itself to be A collection of Marxist communities, for memes, learning, news, discussion, media, or anything you like followed by A general purpose lemmy instance for queer and gender diverse folk, and their allies and one advertising itself as hosting Communities for furries by furries. If there are any right-of-centre Lemmy servers I have not come across them.
This was my initial response as well, but realistically I rotate reddit accounts every few months anyways (I prefer the anonymity that codes with), so I can just do the same for lemmy. Try a server for a bit, and then move to a server when I find a better one. Treat it as ephemeral.
For one, it's pretty low-stakes: With Mastodon, you lose your followers, your posts, and your platform. It's hard to start from scratch, unless you have a chance to move house with the “migration” tool. Lemmy accounts are, comparatively, much more disposable. You can move house at the drop of a hat and it doesn't matter too much; your new profile has fewer comments in its history, who cares? People don't follow _you_, after all, they follow the _community_.
If you pick a bad server, just make a new account, no problem.
It may be intentional, it may be due to a byproduct of how the federation details are implemented, but regardless of how it came to be the end result is an undesirable protocol for discourse and as far as I'm concerned, not worth the effort compared to just switching to scraping Reddit until a worthwhile federated social network appears.
Mastodon has very few federation blocks built-in. Truth Social and Gab are about it. In both cases, the defederation is mutual, because even those two cesspools don't wanna mix effluence with each other, never mind the rest of the "libtards" in the wildly diverse and worldly Fediverse. They've chosen to be siloed.
So that pretty much demolishes the idea that even Mastodon is somehow intrinsically "echo-chambery". There are, again, no other built-in domain blocks.
If Mastodon is "echo-chambery" it's because the alternative is to remain federated with absolute cesspools. I made it 3 months running my instance before I had to start banning whole domains. There's multiple websites to help Mastodon admins curb the incessant shitstorm that exists in the Fediverse. Whole troll farms do nothing but pump out juvenile invective at innocent users... hundreds of posts with nothing but the N-word, K-word, F-word and detailed rape threats.
Again... this is happening on ActivityPub, right now.
You tell me... is it creating an echo chamber to ban Nazi scum?
I haven't investigated too thoroughly though. I really have no interest in investing that kind of time, which is a problem in growing a new place in and of itself
Which seems to be more a fundamental implementation issue than a CDN issue. I don't think they're talking about the main instance.
> and posts from Mastodon to Kbin didn’t work either (they were all classified as microblog).
The beginning seems to contradict the end?
This comment has a reply from dang which reads:
> This comment breaks more than one of HN"s guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
> Please don't take HN threads into ideological flamewar, don't call names, and avoid unsubstantive and/or flamebait posts.
Wish there were one or two more good options in other languages. I know about Calckay/Misskey but they seem more microblog-like and not organised by topic at the top level.
Being able to port identity and posts/content between ActivityPub servers also seems like an issue, but I don't know if any major project has already solved that.
I'm not familiar with either implementation, but I wouldn't place an a priori bet on Rust over PHP for web. We've had many many years to figure out how to build efficient PHP apps and very little time to figure that out in Rust.
At the end of the day, Lemmy’s just server-software. Whatever the developer’s politics are, it doesn’t magically poison the software.
The fact that they own the main domain and the main server means they can choose who to federate with cut off large parts of the network at a whim.
The fact they own the software means they can make it easier or harder to surprise or spread certain messages, and do so in very subtle ways.
Do not confuse open source with safe, something can be open source and be abused even if it's able to be self-hosted.
I just can’t imagine how, honestly! It’s not exactly trivial to programmatically hinder certain messages in a way that others won’t notice and complain about — as they did when Lemmy had hard-coded blacklists for slurs.
If anything, they'd abuse their control of the Lemmy.ml server, like you said.
There are near infinite opportunities for a bad actor to sneak bad code in, so when you're dealing with a bad actor you just don't trust anything they do.
Running code from people who are tied to an authoritarian government is not something you should be doing ever.
It would be like encouraging everyone to move to a place like voat. Don't give random extremists to the opportunity to control media or any form of narrative.
1. New user experience is very confusing. You have to learn a bunch of dorky sounding terminology right away (instance, fediverse/federated, etc), and there are a whole bunch of instances to choose from, but none of them may be particularly appealing or relevant to you specifically.
2. At least on Lemmy, I’m actively discouraged from signing up. And even if I ignore that, I have to fill out an application for an account that includes a personal statement on why I want to join Lemmy. Great, Lemmy can do whatever it wants, but it’s not a Reddit killer with a process like this.
I agree that the whole federation thing is way more confusing than insiders understand.
For technical discussions, this is a feature not a bug. Having a small technical hurdle to get over before contributing is a filter when it comes to having technical conversations that aren’t immediately shit up by low effort content.
The somethingawful forums are STILL around despite not being relevant in popular internet culture for almost 2 decades. Paying a one time $10 fee to post kept out people who weren’t really interested in contributing to the conversation.
Speaking for myself, I would love to see some of the features reddit popularized be brought to a replacement. However, I'm not at all interested in a one-to-one replacement of reddit in its current form, especially if we take "current form" to mean what a typical user would experience joining the site today.
Personally, this post is peak Reddit to me https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/1d9xh5/epic_of_the_...
I’m getting distracted less without Reddit and two notifications per day at a chosen time from email/slack/etc.
Twitter also took me ages to understand what RT and HT and via was supposed to mean and what the difference was between retweets and replies and stars (that are now likes?)...
Rust 79.7% PLpgSQL 14.0% TypeScript 4.6% Shell 1.6% Other 0.1%
It' easy to port (built it maybe 2 years ago (Fedora)), lightweight and fast.
Kind of Anti-Mastodon technically.
Took me less than an hour to register and get comfortable with Lemmy.
Do you really not see the problem? For Lemmy to face any hope of becoming mainstream your statement should be "less than 5 minutes".
Maybe that barrier to entry is a pro to you, and that's fair, but surely you understand the criticism that a social network should be usable without reading a guide, yes?
* This "less than one hour" I'm talking about includes really being familiar with the UI, concept and new terminology.
* I'm not really concerned if Lemmy becomes truly mainstream. I just find it funny that the crowd in HN of all places is so helpless that reading a FAQ and learning a few new names for basically old concepts is so bad that it needs to be constantly complained about. How on earth would these people have survived the pre-2010 internet?
* I did not need to read a guide, just a short FAQ and some fiddling around to understand the concept.
I'm not interested in subscribing to specific communities. The way I used reddit most of the time was browsing on /r/all using RIF and then I blocked all subreddits I didn't want to see again (a feature of RIF, you don't even need an account).
I just really hope it's not discord who will replace it but I fear they have a good shot. And while discord is great for real time communication with others passionate about a topic, it's worse at sorting, ranking and finding old information.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36282351
Can anyone tell me how the fuck hackernews’ algorithm works to where I can’t ever get traction but someone else does after me?
https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2023/06/11/lemmy-migration-...
- foogazi
I am very confussed at the moment. I am trying to understand how Lemmy works and then there is people saying that you can read stuff from Mastodon on Lemmy.
Please help.
I'm still reading and understanding the topics myself as I continue to deeper my understanding of these platforms. It helps to also poke around and use them a little bit. This helps me gain an understanding of how they work.
https://beehaw.org/c/programming
https://lemmy.ml/c/programming
https://programming.dev/c/programming
Asking a question seems like it has the same problem. I have post my question/article in multiple places to interact with different people that have the same interests.
For example, a less-mainstream band I liked posted a new pair of songs last night. With reddit, I could search (via Google most likely) to find a subreddit where this news was posted, and use that to determine that yes, I would like to join this subreddit.
Is there a way to do this with Lemmy?