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Microwave popcorn (in the bag) is garbage. I found I much prefer using a silicone popper [1], and then adding my own butter/salt to it. Tastes just like when I use an air popper. Since that approach doesn't use the popcorn bag, would it then be free from PFAS?

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Proper-Popper-Microwave-Collapsible-D...

That's quite the URL.

Cooking in silicone is something I would probably also avoid, especially if one can't be certain of its composition: https://www.beuc.eu/sites/default/files/publications/BEUC-X-...

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It's an affiliate link. (tag=hyprod-20) You can use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z5SPRWM/ instead.
Did OP make an affiliate link just to earn a few bucks from HN'ers?

If so, I suspect there are better uses for their time...

He could get commission from any sales in the next 30 days

not just this 11$ product

30 days?! That seems shockingly generous for Amazon. What happens when someone has a handful of overlapping affiliate clicks? Do the referrers all split the pool or most-recent wins?
From the other stuff in the url I'm pretty sure OP just copied the link from an ad to Amazon, not created their own affiliate link (which would be crass but par for the course in the techbro hustle we live in I guess)
It's not an affiliate link... I just copied the URL my browser gave me.
Or simply use large saucepan. Pour some oil to cover its base, wait until the oil gets high temperature, pour corn. Then, shake it every now and then. We used to make tons of them when we were kids and even now I make it occasionally, when we do movie nights at home
I've found I burn the popcorn often with this. Maybe just a lack of experience (we always had an air popper growing up). You can also use small amounts of butter (or I guess oil if you wanted) with the silicone popper or air popper. Having enough oil to cover the base seems like a lot more oil? I could be wrong, just guessing.
There's an element of practice too. Ideally, you want a very thin layer of oil to cover the base, or maybe even less. It doesn't need to be a lot. Also an average saucepan would produce quite a lot popcorn

To prevent burning, shaking and occasionally lifting off the hob is required. Also not adding too much corn helps a lot. The maximum a saucepan can take is when the entire base is covered with them.

I've found 50% oil by volume to kernels works great.

Eg 1/3 cup kernels, fill same cup halfway (1/6 cup), add flavacol to the oil in the measuring cup & stir, mix with kernels in a saucepan over heat. Love life

1/6 cup is 320 calories of oil. Definitely not the most calorie-thrifty way to make it.
I use this method as well. To add some specifics, I use a 4 qt saucepan to produce enough for two people. I use enough oil to liberally cover the bottom (glug glug). This is not diet food, excess oil tends to remain in the pot anyway, and I believe most of the heat transfer is oil to corn as opposed to from the pot itself, so you need ample hot oil for a good batch.

To judge when the oil is hot enough for the corn, I add 3 kernels to the initial pot + oil. Once those 3 kernels pop, add enough corn to cover the base of the pan, swirl the hot oil w/ the new kernels, replace cover, but leave slightly ajar to allow steam to escape, and then yeah, a couple more swirls & you should have a perfect batch in about a minute or so.

You may be using too high a heat. I've found the highest setting on my stovetop makes it a pretty high probability some popped kernels will burn (or many if I make a mistake) but a lower setting is sufficient to pop almost every kernel and reduce the risk of burning with techniques people describe in other posts. The air popper I tried tended to leave quite a few unpopped kernels with the same corn kernels I use on the stove top.
Do you cover it to prevent mess?
I know someone who didn't. Let's just say it wasn't pretty in the kitchen afterwards:)
Does the silicone leech anything? Seems like a metal popper on the stove would be best.
Microwave doesn't heat up your house as much and is probably faster.
Depends on your priorities. There is some recent evidence that silicone leaches chemicals into food, but if that's not important to you, then sure, microwave it.
Microwave it in a paper bag or a glass bowl if you like.
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I also use a silicone microwave popper. Seems cleaner and less wasteful than the paper bag technique.
Yep. Got a silicone popper and love it. Much more efficient than stovetop, too.

Decide if you like white or yellow corn, find a good brand, and buy it cheap, in-bulk, for a cheap and nutritious snack. You'll notice significant variation in unpopped kernels between brands.

I spray my kernels lightly with avocado oil and sprinkle popcorn salt(finer than normal to improve adhesion) before popping. I eat at least one large bowl a day now.

Yeah, I got a hot pop(exact same thing) and it's been a game changer. Kernels are so cheap.
Something I learned a few weeks ago:

Put 1/3 cup kernels in a large brown paper lunch bag and fold the top down several times. Microwave as normal, bag standing up, listening for pops to slow down. Air pops in the bag with no issues.

Salt (and ghee) after you dump it in the bowl.

I have stopped using my whirlypopper.

Other than cleaning and excess calories, what's wrong with the whirlypopper?
The microwaved popcorn is much crisper. Really surprised me. Not that the whirlypopper is a lot of work but the microwave is even quicker since there is little mess.
Cool, I was wondering if there were any similar health concerns I wasn't thinking of with the comment. Not that eating popcorn is exactly a healthy choice. I've been looking into alternative popcorn popping ideas and friends have given great reviews (and great samples over the years :) ) of the whirlypop so I've been considering that along with an airpopper.

I'll give that paper bag trick a try sometime, thanks!

Actually might be healthier because it’s not fried in hot oil, only flavoured with warm oil at the end.
Yes, I've been using the paper bag method for a while. Tastes better than prepackaged microwave popcorn too!
You can even staple the bag closed. But now I'm a whirlypop convert. Coconut oil and flavacol popcorn salt. Yum.
I thought you were not meant to put metal into a microwave ?
It depends on the shape and size. Smooth metal spoon in the microwave will be fine, a fork in the microwave will get electrical arcs and possibly destroy your microwave.

Personally I'd just use some kind of metal-free chip clamp instead of actual staples, just to be safe.

It's not even very obvious what won't arc. FreshDirect sells pre-cooked turkey burgers. They come in a metal container with the edges bent over in a way to allow a plastic lid to snap on. Their official cooking instructions stay to just remove the lid and put the container in the microwave. It was surprising, but it doesn't have any arcing issues.
Indeed. That is the way.

I measure a heaping tablespoon of solidified ghee and melt it and add 1 tsp flavacol and toss the popped corn with it to get a similar flavor.

> Coconut oil and flavacol popcorn salt

I used to work at a movie theater, this is the way.

Yep. This brings the movie theater flavor to your home.
I do this too. I also use a food scale to weigh out the popcorn within about a gram. I figured out the number of seconds required, so I no longer have to listen.

The process is surprisingly reproducible. I get very few unpopped kernels, usually around 5 of them.

Would you mind sharing your formula and also your microwave's wattage?
1200W Panasonic inverter microwave.

66g of popcorn (that's two servings, according to the label).

2 minutes and 8 seconds.

After cooking, add oil/butter and popcorn salt, then toss. Popcorn salt likes to fall to the bottom, so after tossing, I put on the popper lid, carefully flip it upside down, and shake.

Also, I use a silicone popper, not a paper bag. (Above, I meant to reply to a different comment.)

I'm eating some right now, turns out. When I'm done, I'll edit this comment with a count of unpopped kernels. :-)

---

EDIT: 2 unpopped kernels!

What popper are you using?
I'm using one called Salbree from Amazon. But looking at the pictures of the other ones, many brands of them look identical, like they're made in the same factory.
Does it depend on the microwave having a turntable?
I came here to describe this method as well. Verified and PFAS free!
I'll give this try, although after reading about the problem with PFAS and microwave popcorn a few months ago I switched to Jiffy pop and it's pretty fun.
Are we sure that paper bags sold and used like this are PFAS free?
Once I learned you can just microwave plain kernels in a paper bag, I threw out all of our microwave popcorn. Even low-salt/low-fat is much saltier and richer than I prefer. Now with this PFAS news, it's yet another reason to ditch the prepackaged popcorn.
How do you seal the bag during popping, with twine?
Also price difference is nuts. Kernels are as cheap as oats almost.
they are cheap but I find they dont last that long - the freshness goes away unless you find a way to store them very airtight.
Are you entirely sure that the paper bag used was PFAS free?
Is it the microwaves effect on the popcorn, or the fake butter that might cause "popcorn lung" if the fumes get inhaled, getting modified into PFAs by microwaving?

If it's the first, I'd expect almost everything you nuke to be at least a risk of PFAs. If its the second, that's easier to deal with by avoiding fake popcorn butter.

Diacetyl contains no fluorine, it’s gotta be whatever lining they use on the paper.
Yeah, the study says PFAS has been found in the packaging.
It's the bag.
> They are also widely used in paper products meant to hold foods that are hot, gooey or greasy. That includes the wrappers that hold fast food, and, as you noted in your letter, microwave popcorn bags.

It's on the paper.

The article does not cite or link to the study.

> The researchers found that people who ate microwave popcorn every day over the course of a year had levels of PFAS that were up to 63% higher than average.

As far as I could tell the relevant study [1] merely finds association rather than causation. This is often the best you can do in the nutrition field though. I have not yet read through the entire contents.

[1] Herbert P. Susmann, Laurel A. Schaider, Kathryn M. Rodgers, and Ruthann A. Rudel. 2019. Dietary Habits Related to Food Packaging and Population Exposure to PFASs. Environmental Health Perspectives 127, 10 (October 2019). DOI:https://doi.org/10.1289/EHP4092

I mean, the study states clearly that the PFAS are in the "food contact materials" in question, here, which are the microwave popcorn bags. Then they end up in the people. Kind of open and shut.
Even double blinded randomized cross over trials only shows associations. That doesn’t mean you can’t make reasonable casual inferences after looking at the balance of evidence. Else we couldn’t even infer that smoking causes cancer, something most people have to bite the bullet on when they denounce nutrition science.
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? You can show causation by having a test group and a control group.

Just get N people. Have the control group eat pot cooked popcorn and have the experimental group eat microwave.

You can’t get causation by just observing, but once you are willing to make someone do something, then it’s pretty easy to arrive at.

I tried to verify the GP quote but actually couldn’t find it in the study - but if it’s true, people who eat microwave popcorn every day for a year is an extreme population in all sorts of ways. I don’t eat anything every day for a year, much less popcorn.

The quote is in the original UCLA Health article, not the study.

"Research suggests that people who regularly consume microwave popcorn have markedly higher levels of PFAS in their bodies. A study published in 2019 analyzed a decade of data about the eating habits of 10,000 people, which was collected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention between 2003 and 2014. Blood samples from the study participants were also collected. The researchers found that people who ate microwave popcorn every day over the course of a year had levels of PFAS that were up to 63% higher than average."

Who is going to fund a study designed to find causation of high pfas blood levels?

The corn producers, the microwave popcorn brands? If any of them ever does, be sure that the study will either find no proof of causation or not be published

You also have to have the control group eat every other meal the same as the study.

The first thing that comes to my mind if you are eating microwave popcorn every day, what other junk foods are you eating every day?

> Just get N people. Have the control group eat pot cooked popcorn and have the experimental group eat microwave

You can only control what people eat if you lock them up in a prison or similar institution.

These days locking up thousands of people and experimenting with their diet is not cool.

The best nutritional / food studies come from prisons and similar institutions.

The Army.

A lot of studies are done on high-level, competitive NCAA / college athletes. Both cuz they're, like, already at a university, but also NCAA has mandatory physicals, and high level athletics lends itself to controlled lifestyles.

Both tend to rule out most health issues as well; in theory you can be diabetic and play NCAA Div 1 ball, but selection bias tends to weed them out, while the Army explicitly does so.

Especially since someone who eats microwave popcorn EVERY DAY is someone who clearly treats their body like a garbage can
it's cheap, even vegan probably (if not buttered), not full of sugar, etc. what's wrong with it? yes, every day seems suboptimal, but it's not trivial to have a varied balanced healthy diet, and folks need to eat every day (usually at least twice).
The reality of commercial microwave popcorn is the problem, not the "idea" of microwave popcorn, if that makes sense.

What I mean is, if you make homemade microwave popcorn with good oils and a pinch of salt it's presumably fine. But the cheap packets you buy in the store, brand-name or not, are full of crap - rancid, cheap oils, additives and preservatives of all kinds, weird artificial flavors, almost certainly a ridiculous amount of salt and sugar, and now possibly packaging that's of such poor quality it leeches PFAs. It's not the corn that's the problem.

>...that were up to 63% higher than average

"Up to" can cover a lot of sins. Does that mean one person had 63% higher than normal and the median daily-popcorn eater was 10% higher?

Stovetop is super easy - saucepan, some kernels, some oil, put the lid on. Low to medium heat til popping stops. Add some salt.

Also incredibly cheap.

I use clarified butter instead of oil so that the popcorn soaks it in immediately after popping.

Every time I take a bite, it’s like a buttery explosion.

I recommend taking it off heat for 30 seconds after adding all the kernels so they all heat up to an even temperature and roast a little in the butter. Use a screen to cover the pot rather than a lid so that steam can escape and your popcorn stays crunchy.

I've been using chicken fat collected from roasting chickens, simmered down and stored in a Ball jar (aka schmaltz)

It tolerates the high heat of popcorn popping quite well and tastes great with a hint of chicken. Usually has notes of the seasoning too... which in my case is mostly black pepper.

+1 on the screen hack, that's definitely a pro-tip.

This sounds delicious. I bet it combines well with sweetness too. I've found that when I do stovetop popcorn I can get sugar to caramelise around the popcorn to produce a crunchy shell. This with a little chicken hint inside would go down well I reckon.
Best method. You can also easily caramelize sugar, just pour it in and stir until its molten yum
I’m kinda curious - why microwave popcorn when an air popper or stove top is so stinkin’ easy? Makes great popcorn and you can control the flavorings
Most people don’t realize you can just pop in a pot they think you need special tools
An air popper is a special tool, but it's easier to use than a pot, uses no oil, and takes up less space than an equivalent pot since the popcorn can be diverted into a bowl as it pops. Recommended!
Microwave is more efficient.
There are people buying pre sliced apples and pre peeled clementines out there
Best popcorn you can make is cheap and easy cleanup.

Take one large pot (the kind that holds like 10qts).

Cover the bottom with kernels.

Add a bit of oil, basically just enough to swirl and have everything covered in an oil sheen, not enough to have them submerged.

Cover, put on high (I use gas). I like to suspend a paper towel between the lid and the rest of the pot, absorbs excess oil and water.

Once popping slows, turn off the stove. Dump popcorn into large mixing bowl.

Toss 1/8 cup butter in the hot pot, melt the butter with residual heat.

Pour popcorn back in and toss to get the popcorn evenly lightly buttered, transfer back to the mixing bowl.

Salt(I prefer a salt grinder) and toss, add a bit of grated Parmesan and toss.

There should be less than 10 unpopped kernels, no burned popcorn at all.

Cleanup is a wipe down of the large pot with the moisture capture paper towel.

Dry popcorn for 2 min on convection in the oven at 350
You can get pretty varied with the seasoning too. Parmesan is my favorite, but I like Italian herbs, nutritional yeast, garlic powder. You can throw a bunch of stuff on there together.
If you like the garlic powder, try chicken salt on popcorn.
TIL that "chicken salt" is a thing that exists! Thanks!
Popcorn is a magnificent flavor-vehicle! My personal favorite is to melt salt, ginger, and sugar in butter and toss the popcorn in that tasty mixture. Or just douse the popped-kernels in sriracha.
Tabasco is incredible on popcorn, give it a shot. I like to mix it in with the melted butter before tossing it all
If you enjoy tabasco, you'll love chili oil. Grab some Lao Gan Ma, oil in early, flakes and some salt at the end.
for something absurdly decadent, try adding these:

* truffle zest (a powder, smells good, not much taste) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FDFL2RQ

* truffle sauce (it's bits of truffle and other mushrooms in oil) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V3M9VLI

* truffle salt (it's a very fine salt and very good for popcorn) https://www.amazon.com/Italian-Black-Truffle-Sea-Salt/dp/B00...

(or just do the truffle salt alone)

i like this combo because it's not as chemical smelling as the "white truffle oil" or whatever they sell that doesn't contain any truffle at all.

Sprayed with cooking spray, then dusted with flavored gelatin power & quickly popped in the oven, you will get something that resembles those flavored popcorns with a sucker-like candy shell.
What flavors do you prefer (for gelatin powda?)
Whatever your favorite is, but I’d probably reach for cherry.
That’s way too much work. Buy big bag of organic Amish baby corn. Buy a silicone popcorn maker. Toss a handful of popcorn in with some olive oil. Microwave for 3.5 minutes or until you hear only 2 pops a second. Sprinkle with salt. Done. Also a $20 bag will probably make more than a hundred bowls.
I was just about to post about the silicone popcorn makers. They’re amazingly practical, I’m super happy with mine, and I’m pretty sure it can’t get any easier than that. Some risk of burning your popcorn tho as the window between “most kernels popped” and “burnt” is relatively short, so until you figure out the correct timings for your microwave’s power, watch your fire alarms.
You can do this with brown paper lunch bags. Put some popcorn in a bag, fold the top so that it doesn't open when it expands, and hit the popcorn button.
Most likely all of these alternatives contain PFAS as well, except for putting them in the good 'ol kettle on the stove. Source: https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/science-technology/paper-b...
That article appears to be talking about the type of bags and wrappers you get from fast food joints. I don't think a standard "brown paper bag" contains PFAS.
I think that only applies to variations of “non stick” or grease repellant paper bags, which is often used by fast food joints to avoid the food sticking to the paper.
My silicone popcorn maker works great in a regular household size microwave. Not so good in a small microwave like you get in a cheap hotel or RV.
It does get easier: air popper. No burning to worry about, works perfectly every time.
Air poppers are great for efficiency and convenience, but I find the consistency a bit chewy for my taste. Efficiency and convenience usually wins though, which is also why microwave popcorn is such a hit.
Yeah, I don't care for air-popped popcorn for that reason, too. But I prefer air-popped over microwave.
I have a vague memory of using an air popper and as far as i remember it wasn’t allowed to add oil. With the silicone ones you add oil and salt at the beginning and can ensure a uniform distribution
Yep, no oil for an air popper. You get the popcorn and that's it. If you want to add fats, you do it afterward.
It's really no different. Take a pot, toss in a handful of popcorn with some oil. Turn on stove for a couple of minutes until pops subside. Sprinkle with salt. Done.

I never bothered with the butter etc, though maybe I should.

Can you just let it sit on the flame or do you have to move it around?
I use this method with a flat bottom pot (peanut oil and salt only), and I find that if I don't shake it from time to time, it will sometimes burn a bit before all kernels have popped. So, about halfway done, I shake and/or vertically bump the pot to let kernels settle back to the bottom.

As the popping slows, I take the lid off entirely (there's enough popcorn at that point to keep new popping from splatter or jumping out), and add salt, and then rotate the bulk of the popped corn with a bump to one side, salt again, bump-rotate, etc, getting the salt on it evenly without letting it cool too much. I like popcorn that's just-popped hot.

Two other notes:

I only use peanut oil, because at fast popping temperatures, some oils smoke. The popcorn does not taste like peanuts, if you'd worry about that.

I use more oil than most commenters, such that the single layer of kernels (3/4 cup in my pot) are nearly submerged at the start. Cleanup is more involved than a wipe of the pot, but the popcorn is a lot tastier and I don't need any butter or parm.

I have experimented with various techniques: huge pot, wok, air popper, silicone bowls.

The silicone bowls are by far the best. Big consistent, crisp pops. Minimal waste, you can even repop the unopposed kernels. But easy to burn if you are not careful.

Air poppers are by far the worst. The pop corn always came out like styrofoam. I’d bite into the popcorn and it would just flatten.

I don’t believe the comments about getting minimal un-popped kernels using a pot, by just swirling around a bit of oil. Sounds like baloney to me. Results are good but waste is relatively high in a flat bottomed pot.

The best vessel for stove top is a metal container with a curved bottom - wok, large metal bowl. Add popcorn and oil as normal. Heat for about a minute. Turn the heat off. Stir the kernels for 30s to a minute to let the heat even out. Turn the heat back on and cover. As they pop shake the container to help the kernels settle to the bottom. The same technique can be used in a normal pot, but the heat distribution is not as good.

> I don’t believe the comments about getting minimal un-popped kernels using a pot, by just swirling around a bit of oil. Sounds like baloney to me.

It works, though!

I use an ordinary 3qt pot (Cuisinart MCP193-18N, if it matters; this is a tri-ply pot). Choose enough kernels to make a single layer on the bottom of the pot (that's about 1/2 cup for this one, if I'm remembering correctly... I'm usually on autopilot doing this though) and set aside. Add enough oil to the pot to basically half cover the single layer, or a bit more. Add five kernels to the pot and start the heat at medium-high to high. Add the rest of the kernels when 3/5 of the test kernels have popped. Cover with lid. You're done when the pot is full (and it will be!). Pour the popcorn into a separate bowl to season and serve.

Works every time, with very little waste kernels.

Maybe it’s my pot.

I took or adapted my stove top method from Alton Brown. And it works on every wok so far.

Oil helps distribute heat more evenly. Makes sense to me that this might make the popping more consistent.
The only time you don’t add oil is with an air popper. It does not guarantee results by itself.
> I don’t believe the comments about getting minimal un-popped kernels using a pot, by just swirling around a bit of oil. Sounds like baloney to me.

I guess you don't have to believe it, but I rarely get more than two or three unpopped kernels that way, personally.

Well, I don’t believe it in the sense that I think these recipes are all missing out key steps. Because not everyone gets such good results. I sure don’t without extra steps.
There are Chinese popcorn cannons that require less work. Here is a video of a family of two operating such a popcorn booth in China:

https://youtu.be/DZQNjZ1xNgE

We have much to learn from their culture.

Wow, that is literally a cannon ... crazy.
Looks like they're using the cannon to make both puffed rice (the first "shot") and popcorn (the second one). Same principle, of course.
They were working with rice, after firing that batch they load the cannon with flint corn (pop corn)

Corn explosion is louder than rice one.

I'm normally good at picking up on sarcasm on the internet, this is just an advanced joke, right?
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That's why I take out a dozen or so unpopped kernels before popping the rest. It's easier to throw them right in the trash, rather than have to pick them out of the rest of the popped corn.
this is genius! the true life hack is always in the comments...
wait, how can you differentiate the unpopped from the yet to pop? (tbh. so far I'm just a premade popcorn buyer, so ELI5...)
When you pick the kernels for the sacrifice they have to accept their fate and the others have to accept the tribute. It's just their tradition.
Ignore the snark from the sibling comments.

You have to study the grain. Most kernels have a left to right grain, and they will pop between 140-150C, because the cell structure of the skin is weak in several places. A relatively rare genetic mutation leads to around 1-2% of kernels having a right to left grain, and because of this orientation the skin is actually more robust in the typical popping spots, meaning that temperatures as high as 450C are required to pop these! That's why they typically will remain unpopped when cooking popcorn in this legacy manner.

To detect the right-to-left kernels, you can actually use a UV flashlight - you will see that they have a softer glow compared to the bright left to right kernels.

Hope that helps!

This is probably the most interesting thing I’ve read all day. Now where did I leave the UV torch…
You can get them at auto parts stores used with dye to detect leaks, often in the HVAC system.
Or at most pet supply stores, for a similar but not identical purpose.
I want to believe, but I don't have a UV light handy to verify this.
I dont know if this is true or if this is a brilliant and creative troll.
If this is true, does this mean that it's technically possible to pre-sort out most of the kernels that won't pop easily? Do expensive popcorn brands do this? Would it be possible to breed out this mutation? So many questions.
Apparently, the reason why some kernels don't pop is because they have too little moisture due to the hull not being perfect and the moisture escaping[1][2]. So it seems like it should be possible to somehow go through all the kernels and remove most of the unpoppable ones? Maybe make something that weighs each kernel and removes ones outside a range?

1: https://americasfavoritepopcorn.com/blogs/all-blogs/why-do-s... 2: https://popcornity.com/why-some-popcorn-kernels-dont-pop/

Plus who wants to eat unlucky popcorn?
These days, I’ve been separating the poop from the food before I eat it.
This is funny. This is also not the type of comments that I expect to see on HN. I come here out of curiosity, not for humor or entertainment.
I use an airpopper, cost maybe $6. Can in theory be used for coffee roasting too!
Out of interest, why do you prefer a salt grinder? I've never understood why these exist. Pepper grinders, absolutely - the aromatics are released on grinding. By not so with salt. Curious if I'm missing something.
For pop corn you need fine grained salt. A grinder lets you control that. It is only about the grain sizes. Nothing about freshness with salt. With pepper it is about freshly releases aromatics.
I’ve never found a salt grinder able to sustain the salt corrosion in the long run. Sooner or later, salt is aggregating and turning even the more resistant parts into rust.

I was recently planning to get back to a regular pestle/mortar setup after yet another costly failure. Did you manage to find a way to work this around?

> I’ve never found a salt grinder able to sustain the salt corrosion in the long run

There are ceramic grinders now. I'd expect those to not rust, but I don't know how long they stay sharp.

You can make ceramics harder than the hardest steel so staying sharp shouldn’t be a problem.
I've had ceramic salt grinders for years now. Anecdotally you're right, never thought about replacing them.
What timescale are you talking about? I have a William Sonoma salt grinder, as well as one that my friend made for me. They're both about 5 years old. As far as I know there's no significant deterioration on either one. The grinding surfaces are ceramic.
Had usually some issues with (metallic) screws or other minor pieces after 1-2 years. Will take a look at ceramic grinders in the future.
I looked under my William Sonoma grinder today, and the metal screws and bracket near the ceramic grinder are in fine shape.
I've had a fully plastic one for about 5 years
Delivering microplastics right into the food since 19xx.
we use a cheap ikea grinder, it has ceramic burrs and has undergone countless refills and dishwasher cycles.
It’s easy enough in the US to just buy fine grained salt.
A coffee grinder will quickly make a lot of really fine salt. I do that when I need to heat treat 3D printed parts to improve their material strength. You pack the part into fine salt, bake it at the original extrusion temperature, then slowly let it cool down. The plastic liquefies, and the packed salt holds its shape.
That'll probably really fuck up a coffee grinder, so make sure you don't use it for coffee.
I would assume they are talking about a blade "coffee" grinder, which is ironically terrible for coffee.
If you want a really fine grind in a hurry you can use one and get ok results. You have to let it rest every 30s or so to cool down or it heats the grounds too much. I liked to shake it while grinding too. It isn't quite Turkish grind and there are a few large pieces that won't get full extraction, but if you want really fast extraction (or fast intentional over extraction) it works.
Yeah, a blade coffee grinder. For sure don't run salt through your expensive burr grinder!
why would it fuck up a coffee grinder?
Salt corrodes stuff
And salt is a lot harder than a coffee bean. Blade is probably a really weak/soft metal. Might be harder than salt on the Mohs scale, but that just buys you time.

Blade also gets kicked around more going around the salt instead of grinding through, more bending = shorter lifespan.

Nice method, what infill do you need for that to work? 100% or is less possible?
You do need 100%, otherwise you'll end up with a void at the top once the plastic melts. You could experiment with intentionally designing in a "sprue" of extra material to melt and control where the void is, but I haven't tried it yet.

I've successfully used this method on a sun gear for a planetary gear box designed for a low speed, high torque application. Due to mechanical constraints, the gear only had about 1.2mm of wall thickness at a 5mm radius, and it was prone to shearing off. Remelting it in salt solved the shearing, without having to redesign anything else.

I also don't use salt grinders, preferring coarse salt like Kosher or coarse sea salt on most dishes. However, to play Devil's advocate, a grinder is adjustable between fine and coarse.
In my neck of the woods, unground salt is much, much cheaper than ground. Ground salt can basically be only found coming in a plastic dispenser. It could be argued that throwing all these plastic containers away isn't great for the environment.

I only realize that I've never thought of comparing, but I've got the habit of using unground salt when cooking. My grandmother used to do this for some reason, so I picked it up.

Unground salt is also useful for cleaning things, like cooking pans.

It's therefore easier to only buy salt in one big pack that lasts forever.

Portuguese kitching uses a lot of coarse salt.

A 1 kilo bag is like 0,23 EUR

Also can't make good brownies without big salt crystals. Or pretzels.
In london at Canary Wharf there is a 'German' pub that serves pretzels without salt on them! I tried explaining that they are all crinimals but they were just really confused!
500g of fine table salt is 9¢, so the price doesn't really matter tbh.
> In my neck of the woods, unground salt is much, much cheaper than ground.

In my neck of the woods, unground salt is the most expensive kind, because the only place you can find it is in upscale gourmet stores.

I've asked my mother the exact same question a couple of weeks ago. She said, that as salt is hygroscopic "table salt" comes with anti-cacking agents. Salt which comes as larger crystals doesn't need them.
What's wrong with the anti-caking agents?
Well it's not salt for one.
I mean, calcium silicate _is_ a salt. As is sodium ferrocyanate.

You want your anti-caking agent to absorb a lot of moisture and a salt is the way to do it.

I guess it'd depend on what the agent was, but either way, it means some amount of the salt you're pouring over your food isn't salt. Eliminate the non-salt from your salt and you never have to worry about what might be wrong with it or how much non-salt you're paying for. That's the reason I've switched to shredding my own parmesan cheese instead of just shaking it out of a can since the cans in some cases contain ~10% cellulose.
Table salt is just sea salt (the stuff mined from underground just comes from an ocean that dried up a few million years ago) and is full of other compounds beyond NaCl.
None of which is sodium or potassium ferrocyanide, the chief anticaking agent. Otherwise it wouldn't crystallize.
Sure, but anti-caking agents are an adulteration of the original product you mined out of the ground.
Table salt often contains iodine which will alter the flavor.

The reason to grind your own salt is to get it at the right size.

You need iodine.
From salt? Don't I get iodine from my food?
Usually not enough elemental iodine unless you eat a lot of sea life.
I just bought salt and the ingredient list (sadly) is: sea salt, tricalcium phosphate (free-flowing agent), dextrose, potassium iodide.
Why the hell are they adding corn sugar to salt?

EDIT: I looked it up. It's supposed to stabilize the iodide. The reason they use corn sugar is that it's cheap. Thankfully there are brands that don't include additives in their salt. I'll have to keep an eye out for them. I already get plenty of iodide in my diet.

They are toxic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_ferrocyanide

The amount is small enough, that it is supposed to do no harm, but I just prefer my salt without cyanide.

I guess you will still get it in most restaurants.
As well as in any processed food I am buying, yes I am aware of that. But when I have the choice, I prefer the non toxic salt (and it is still mindblowing to me, how it became normal to add cyanide to salt in the first place).
Same boat (non-toxic salt). I've mostly switched to MSG (except for paella), and much prefer it.
I mean, table salt in general carries pollutants from its source, e.g. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/micro...
Yup, there are cheap salts with their own toxins and even expensive Himalaya salt can probably contain bad stuff. But at least here in germany, there are (non government) organisations that test food for their poisons and you can buy their test results, also for salt, in the shape of a magazine.

And even they can be wrong, sure, but I can still avoid poison where possible, so if I see no reason to voluntarily add cyanide on top of all the other shit for no good reason, I simply won't.

>They are toxic.

If you ate enough salt to reach a toxic dose of sodium ferrocyanide, you’d already be dead from hypernatremia though?

The dose makes the poison.

"The dose makes the poison."

Yes it does and it all adds up. So why would I add more things, that are poisenous even at small doses, when I can easily avoid it?

>Yes it does and it all adds up.

No, it doesn't, because sodium ferrocyanide is poorly absorbed in the first place and not bioaccumulative in humans. I suppose you also don't each spinach or almonds either?

"spinach" nope and of almonds not too many either.

But my point is, sodium ferrocyanide intake is not beneficial, (unlike ordinary sodium). Even if it might do no harm, why should I risk even little harm?

And with adding up, well there is a whole libary of other toxic or potentially toxic additives in the normal food you can buy. I prefer to minimize the potential bad intake, that's all.

Also watch out for the arsenic in rice.

Some people don't each rice for this reason, but I just eat around it.

It adds to the richness IMO.
>Yes it does and it all adds up

Only for substances that accumulate, which is not the case here...

Now if your salt has PFAS sure

With ferrocyanide in particular ([Fe(CN)6]4−), the reason cyanide (CN-) is such bad news is also the reason it's safe complexed to iron: Iron-Cyanide coordination is very strongly favored by thermodynamics and kinetics, so it likes to stick to iron, sticks very quickly, and un-sticks itself very slowly. When cyanide is not already coordinated to iron, it coordinates to the iron in hemoglobin (+ COX enzymes in mitochondria, and other less immediately important enzymes) and makes them not work, basically forever. But when CN- is already stuck coordinated to free iron, it doesn't really fall off enough to stick itself to enzymes in any meaningful amount. It would be more of a problem if CN- accumulated, but it's metabolized and excreted quickly enough to not be a big deal. The LD50 values basically reflect this.
Starch is a common anti-caking agent. Too much of it will make you fat.
Not in salt though, there it would cause more problems by making sticky mess.
That’s not enough to justify the grinder. Buy a box of Diamond Crystal Kosher salt. It has the perfect texture for keeping in a salter on the counter so it’s easy to grab a pinch.
kosher salt is way too coarse for popcorn, so I don't think it eliminates the need for the grinder
You can control the coarseness by rubbing it between your fingers as you apply it. You may have seen video of chefs doing this.
pre-ground salt often contains sugar (as an ingredient, it's on the package).
What? They sell salt with added sugar in the US!?!?
Yeah, no. I have no idea what that person is referencing. I've had all the available salts around me and I've literally never seen sugar in salt. That would be insane. They do use an anti caking agent sometimes though, but that's more like sand
I bet there's salt somewhere that has added sugar, but I have never personally seen it in my life.
Yeah, no. I'm really going need to see some evidence for this.
I've never seen this, this would lead to some sticky salt.

Usually you see anti-caking agents and Iodide added.

Nice, interesting explanation https://windsorsalt.com/faq/
I just like the number of people who replied to this telling me I'm full of it when a simple google image search returns hundreds of results.
It didn't sound plausible tbh since they add anti-caking agents and sugar seems like a pro-caking agent. I even googled salt additives (to keep the search neutral) and it didn't turn up sugar anywhere.
I prefer course grained and no anti caking agents or iodine added.

It's nothing special, some no-name Himalayan pink salt in a plastic grinder.

Well, iodine is required for life so you better get some elsewhere, like from a supplement. It's not present in sufficient amounts in water or plants these days...
Lack of iodine in the diet was an issue 100 years ago, but not so much now.

According to the National Institutes of Health’s Office of Dietary Supplements, tests have shown that the population in the United States is “iodine sufficient.” Most Americans who eat a varied diet get enough iodine even if they don’t use iodized salt. They are at little risk of iodine deficiency*

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/well/eat/should-we-be-buy...

It’s worth it for anyone to read the article. Plenty of circumstances that could lead to deficiency.

I think the “varied diet” usually means Americans get enough through non-home use iodized salt (like processed/restaurant foods). As the article says, seafood (plant or not) and dairy are good iodine sources, if you consume them.

Seafood yes, dairy only because the cow's feed is supplemented. Free range grass fed cows will have low iodine content in milk.
That article is not trustworthy.

It links Americans being iodine sufficient to getting varied diet but that’s not a conclusion made by the source from what I can see.

The article also says bread is a good source of iodine when the source says it’s a very poor source of iodine.

So I think the article is making stuff up, linking a source but hoping no one will actually read it, and probably written by someone trying to get iodine supplements removed.

Normally I’d expect to see this kind of writing from some blog but not the NYT.

You're swapping caking agents and iodine for... a hefty list. (In both cases, less than really makes a difference to human health.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayan_salt

> Some salts mined in Pakistan are not suitable for food or industrial use without purification due to impurities... Although a study of pink salts commercially available in Australia showed Himalayan salt to contain higher levels of a range of elements, including calcium, iron, magnesium, manganese, potassium, aluminum, barium, silicon, and sulfur, and reduced levels of sodium, compared to table salt, the authors concluded that "exceedingly high intake" (a level in excess of the recommended daily salt intake by almost 600%) would be required for the differences to be clinically significant, levels at which any potential nutritional benefit would be outweighed by the risks of elevated sodium consumption such an intake would entail.

Oh, I'm not doing the pink salt because of the health benefits. I'm doing it because I like the flavor and how it interacts with my food better.

I've never really like iodized table salt, the pink salt tastes "right" to me.

Taste, I can get behind; fleur de sel is my go-to.
Just that they use chemicals to keep the salt seperate.
This comment reminded me that for the past few years I’ve been using a hand crank coffee grinder for my pepper and i don’t think I’ll ever go back. It’s perfect.
Grinding the salt more finely makes it stick to the popcorn a bit better.
My conjecture: salt grinders create more irregular shapes than provided by commercially made table salt. Irregular shapes mean more surface area, which means faster absorption into the body, which means tastier food.

Totally without evidence.

I'm a big fan of tomatoes, and one of my favorite dishes is sliced tomatoes, salted, and eaten with cheese.

For some reason, normal salt just sticks on the top of the tomato despite it being wet and I can "taste" the salt not just saltiness. However, with crunched salt crystals, they basically dissolve and disappear into the moisture of the tomato. This just tastes better too.

Don't ask me why or how it all happens, it's just what I've found using my taste buds.

Probably the anti-caking agents in the normal salt absorb some of the wetness and have it stay clumped up instead of diffusing through the tomato liquid
Why would anti-caking agents clump up? Isn't their purpose to not clump up?
Grinder means finer salt. Finer salt sticks to things better (you can get a baby powder consistency).

And the way the salt "tastes" is different because the powder dissolves on your tongue differently/quicker.

Salt "dust" is a really interesting way of adding salt to food -- and you actually end up adding less than larger grains

I use salt flour for popcorn; it's essentially salt that is milled as fine as flour. There was a study (which I can't find now) which found that our perception of saltiness is based less on amount and more on surface area coverage.
It's sometimes just called "popcorn salt" and it's exactly as you describe. (And it can also be made at home from regular table salt with a food processor or mortar & pestle.)
I take a trip to the bulk-barn often enough to get “Butter Salt” it’s powdered and yellow. I suspect it’s what goes into the packages for the movie theatre.
>Grinder means finer salt.

I've never seen on-the-spot ground salt smaller than the stuff you can buy already grounded. Except if you buy flakes, but then why do so if you want finer salt?

The shapes of the granules in table vs ground sea salt are different.
It's just culinary cargo cult. You grind pepper and other such things because the flavor survives well in the peppercorn but degrades relatively rapidly in air, so waiting until the last minute to grind it results in better flavor. Oxidized pepper is easy to notice the difference in flavor profile and much lower complexity. Especially the pepper shakers that have been sitting at the restaurant table probably yea verily these many years, mostly unused.

Therefore, grinding things at the last minute makes them taste better, goes the simplification.

Therefore, grinding salt must make it taste better.

But salt is not like the aromatic flavors in a peppercorn. Salt is geologically stable. NaCl itself does not need a last minute grind to retain its salty flavors. NaCl is not a chemically complex flavor.

I qualified that as NaCl specifically because it is faintly possible some of the fancy salts could have their fancy flavors come out better if they are ground, but I'm yet to even notice a difference when any of these are used in food in any manner so I can't judge. Those flavors must be awfully darned stable as it is if they're still hanging around in a 99+% NaCl environment. I'd want to see a specific chemical that can survive that but will suddenly wilt if exposed to oxygen. (We're sure not talking about traditional benzene-ring aromatics at that point!) If there is a difference it is hovering at the very bottom of human detectability.

Salt grinders are annoying. They're hard to use because you're trying to grind a rock, a soft rock sure but still a rock. It's wasted effort, and it occurs to me to wonder if they even do anything to speak of; now I want to find one and compare the before and after of the chunk size; I find myself suspicious that many of them are just theatrics and the salt basically passes through unscathed because "cheap plastic" and "grinding a rock" are not compatible with each other. Even if it does do some real grinding it's still a waste though because it was never necessary, you could just have bought it at the right grain size.

The reason you'd use a salt grinder is when you specifically want an inconsistent spread of grain sizes in one single application. Like salt flakes on ganache or caramel, or there's a beloved french butter with large crystals mixed into it.

Usually you'd just use two sizes of salt. I don't own a salt grinder, can't remember ever seeing one in a professional kitchen, don't recommend people buy them. But it does produce a particular effect that you could prefer for some applications.

And in fact I suspect popcorn might be one of the places where it would shine. An even background of salt dust with bursts of intense saltiness from larger grains sounds good here. I'm not going to buy a salt grinder to test it but it's not an absurd idea.

> It's just culinary cargo cult.

I think you’re misunderstanding the use. It’s a different goal from grinding spices. It’s functional. And I’ve never seen powdered salt selling anywhere in Canada. (Except for expensive artisan stuff). So, the best way to achieve it is with a grinder+rock salt. I’ve been using a simple Amazon grinder and it’s easy to use.

Powdered salt tastes different not because of a differing chemical composition, but because of its different physical nature + your tongue.

>It’s a different goal from grinding spices. It’s functional.

Or... it's an after the fact rationalization for the cargo cult!

At best this might be your goal, for whatever reason. 99% of the people who cargo cult a salt grinder don't have that reason - and regular sold salt would be 100% OK for their purposes.

Okay c'mon now, are you even trying to understand/empathize with their argument at all?

Right off the bat any real consideration will make you aware that large particles will distribute very differently from small particles of the same volume.

Additionally that large particles will be substantively different from small particles in how they interact with the toungue. Eg large particles will "burn" more due to their extreme concentration and will be effectively "hot spots" of seasoning.

From just that it would be apparent that there would be truth to the claim of substantial difference in experience when using the two forms.

Right?

I’ve never seen salt powder or “dust” for sale. Grinder has been the only useful way.
The shapes of the crystals affects the taste. If the salt is going to be dissolved, such as in pasta water, then grain-shape doesn't matter. Use the cheapest salt. But if the salt is going onto the surface of a food, such as in popcorn or a steak, then fresh-ground salt gives a more salty flavor per gram used. The salt grains that come already ground have a smooth texture like the smooth pebbles in a creek. Fresh-grinding gives the crystals a jagged, irregular shape. This enhances the effect when they hit your taste buds.
Just buy Flavacol
Yeah, I bought a pound (or a kilo?) and it will last me the rest of my life.
Not an expert on this, but after buying both types of salt from the same manufacturer and comparing them, the pre-ground one has a different texture and is less pleasant to eat; almost like it was mixed with dust.
> I like to suspend a paper towel between the lid and the rest of the pot, absorbs excess oil and water.

Interesting. I like to keep that excess oil/water, as that extra moisture on the surface of the popcorns later helps the sugar/salt stick to it - without the need for additional butter/grease.

IMO flavacol is essential. Oil type matters too, coconut oil gives more of a movie theater style flavor (OTOH maybe not as healthy as other options...)
Coconut oil is relatively healthy as far as consuming oil goes, isn't it?
You're probably thinking of the MCTs in coconut oil, which do seem to offer some health benefits, but coconut oil is also monstrously high in saturated fats (90% vs 14% for olive oil), and tons of studies show that saturated fat is relatively awful for the human body.
Coconut and palm oils are the least healthy of all the vegetable oils. In terms of saturated fat, they're almost as bad as beef fat.
10 quarts = 11.3 l

I had no idea that a quart is about a litre.

Me: Hey babe, your're almost a litre!

Her: Why?

Me: Because you're a qt!

I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't get this joke until I reread it a few times. Probably because my entire life, I've internally pronounced "qt" as "quart". It took a bit before I realized the joke was shooting for "cutie".
The other one that threw me is how am I supposed to measure 1/8th cup of butter?
In the US, butter is sold in sticks with 1/8 cup markings on the wrapper
Ehy would you measure butter in cups, you dont drink it
Cups is a measure of volume. They could just as easily print cc markings, but I don't think they do.
Most American cookbooks use volume measures for baking because most of us don’t own scales. It sometimes leads to wildly inconsistent results when an ingredient is compacted too much.
Yeah even the cup measurement itself varies. It's sometimes 250mL and sometimes 236mL and sometimes 227mL.
1/8th of a cup is 2 tablespoons.

But I prefer to measure butter (and most other things -- especially sticky/messy/powdery things) by weight because it's easier. 1 cup of butter weighs about 227 grams, so 1/8 cup is about 27 grams.

Uh, I think something went wrong with your conversion. 10 quarts is about 9.5 liters.
You're using US quarts; they're using Imperial quarts[0]. (But I expect the recipe was also using US quarts, so still a useful adjustment to note.)

[0] https://www.google.com/search?q=10+imperial+quarts+in+liters

I used the common Unix "units" program, and entered quarts and asked for l (i.e., litres). Maybe it used my locale? GNU programs can be crazy like that.
Exactly this! But not with salt, but caramelized sugar. Maybe also pinch of salt just for the kick.

Can't be worse than the PFAS infused kind right?

I remember my family doing this when I was a child. You can return to the television and listen for the popping to slow if you wish. Returning to the kitchen and finding the lid wasn't placed on pot is tragic comedy. Sweep and mop, the floor will be oily. I think it only happened once.
I love popcorn. And this might be arrogant. As I might come around like the extremist (that I am). But I am reading here between the lines, that even with popcorn, there is a lot that could be done better for the environment: - gas is not renewable. I hope we can get away from that - once popping starts you turn of the stove, does this mean you have fairly solid pans that keep the heat long? I don't think that is sustainable either - You put butter in the popcorn? Well that is also not sustainable either. - Then you add Parmesan, well that makes it even worse. - You use a paper towel, that you toss away

Why do we just happen to glance over those issues so easily?

> does this mean you have fairly solid pans that keep the heat long? I don't think that is sustainable either

How is that not sustainable? It means that you can turn the heat off earlier and coast on the stored heat.

I don't cook on gas, so that's not a concern for me. But no butter?? That's the same as saying "no popcorn".

Trick: Use a wok, leaves nothing unpopped and can use less oil.

Also, more of the world needs this in their lives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fG8rNHUspU

(not bdg - well yes also bdg - but in this case the pep corn)

I like to use as much peanut oil as possible. like 1/3 cup. Make a nice heavy popcorn. Delicious!
I love movie theater popcorn so I often try to get that exact experience at home. The biggest leap in quality for me is using a tall pot and a colander on top, it achieves the same goal as your paper towel between the lid-- getting that excess moisture out of the pot really makes all the difference!
The secret to movie popcorn flavor is coconut oil and the flavored salt.
Coconut oil is ok but it does have a distinct taste.

My favorite is to use beef tallow.

I've had similar luck with peanut oil too!
If you want movie theater popcorn you make it the same way they do with the same ingredients.

Stir popcorn maker something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004RC6R

flavacol salt (optional if you use flour salt) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W8LT10 or flour salt https://www.amazon.com/Morton-Popcorn-Salt-Green-French/dp/B... or both 1/2-1 tea spoons at most.

'butter' oil https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UZLQG2 1/4 cup after cooking (warm it in a microwave)

The butter oil is a bit of a pain as there is so much of it and you can not really buy in small quantities, and it will go rancid before you use it all. It is meant for movie theaters to use. I have not found any supermarket versions that are correct. Usually they are kinda gross.

You can use a coconut oil for cooking with. Most theaters do not do this at all. The butter oil is closest to the same as movie theater as that is what they use during cooking and topping at the end. I personally use the coconut oil when cooking as it imparts a nice texture and flavor to the popcorn. 1-2 tsps for cooking with for either. Then top with the butter oil.

The flavacol and butter oil are the key ingredients.

For the popcorn I just buy orville redenbacher popcorn. They have a decent process of removing the duds before they get into the container. You can buy generic just expect a few duds.

"Cover, put on high (I use gas)."

Microwave is also fine, I just use a Pyrex bowl put in kernels and cover with a non-metal plate. The plate is necessary or they end up everywhere except the bowl.

Add some sugar to the oil and skip the butter. So goooood!
I recommend jalapeno popcorn. If you enjoy a spicy snack its great. Only difference is when you're heating up the oil, add some pickled jalapenos and cook them until they're crunchy--the oil will absorb the spiciness.

Also, try using coconut oil instead of canola oil to cook the popcorn--its pricier, but its a great taste. I think it removes the need to add butter afterwards.

I would avoid normal butter. I use ghee instead. The problem with butter is that it has water content that can cause the popcorn to get soggy. Ghee avoids that.
If you have time, or have pre-made it, using clarified butter results in a better final product. I keep some in the fridge all the time. Ghee would probably work similarly, but I have never tried it.
Unless there’s a comment more pedantic than mine disproving this, ghee IS clarified butter.
Old Bay seasoning on popcorn is fantastic. I usually don't butter if I'm putting it on, though I'm sure that would be delicious too.
Old Bay is great, yes! I also like nutritional yeast on popcorn.

But plain old butter is still my favorite.

My only recommendation/advice is to use a thick bottom wok or pot. A wok allows the already popped popcorn to move away from the heat source.

Thick bottom pots also reduce burning. Use a vented lid so steam can escape which prevents soggy popcorn.

My household follows this method, though we find high heat, while extremely efficient, frequently results in chewy output.

In my experiments heating the pan and oil to a medium-high temperature, just before smoking, with 3-4 test kernels preloaded allows them to generate an alert by their popping, signalling the optimal time for addition of the rest of the kernel package.

Chewy is from moisture. Vent the pot better.
No butter or parmesan, just salt is perfect.
I have stopped using paper towels after discovering those "flour sack" towels at Menards. I bought a lot of them so there is always a stack in the kitchen. They are a joy to use and easily replace paper towels for 99% of their functions. We still keep paper towels but the roll lasts forever now.
Our recipe:

* 3 tablespoons bacon grease * 1/2 cup popcorn kernels

Put the bacon grease in a large pot and add three kernels of popcorn. Heat it on half heat (5 on a gas burner, anyway) until the three kernels all pop -- this will usually be the point at which smoke from the grease is accumulating in the pot (if you have a large lid you can watch). Once the three pop, dump the rest in. Scoot the pot vigorously back and forth on the stove to shake the unpopped kernels to the bottom. Turn off the heat when the popping stops.

Pour in a bowl and salt to taste. No butter required. As above, you get almost no unpopped kernels this way!

We use "rainbow popcorn," which is multi-color and we think tastes better. It doesn't pop as big as the regular yellow kind.

I'll have to try the paper towel trick, especially with the smaller pot I sometimes use.

I'm a "heat kernels to just below popping and then pop" fan, since trying this method a decade ago. The goal is to get all the kernels to pop in a relatively short window, so nothing sits there to burn.

Method:

  - Prepare: Measure out 1/3 cup of popcorn and have a serving bowl ready.
  - Add high temp oil to the pot.  I use 1-2tbs of coconut oil.
  - Place in stock pot along with 3 kernels over medium high heat.
  - Cover with a kitchen towel (to let out some steam during popping, don't want a soggy popcorn).
  - Once the kernels pop, immediately dump in the rest of the kernels (I usually do 1/3 cup, whatever the instructions recommend).
  - Immediately take off the heat and shake gently to the count of 30.  The kids love participating in the count.
  - Put back on the heat and shake a little to make sure the kernels are evenly distributed.
  - Once the popping slows, immediately take it off the heat and dump into a serving bowl.  This prevents burning.
This method works great, rave reviews from the family.
With this method, the popping is reasonably quick, and the temperature fairly consistent, so, despite the advice seemingly everywhere in the internet, high temp oil isn’t actually necessary. Be careful and you can use olive oil (though that tastes a bit weird) or even butter.
I use clarified butter since it has a higher melting point, and it even flavors the popcorn.
Higher smoke point
Agreed, I do sometimes pop with olive oil and it turns out without burning.
> Cover, put on high (I use gas). I like to suspend a paper towel between the lid and the rest of the pot, absorbs excess oil and water.

Cool tip, thanks. I use basically the same steps except fort this one. Living in a high humidity environment (it's rarely below 70%), any step to reduce excess moisture helps improve the crunchiness of the popcorn.

I do this all the time. I never liked microwave popcorn because all of it has a strange odor and taste to me.

> I like to suspend a paper towel between the lid and the rest of the pot, absorbs excess oil and water.

Brilliant! I never thought of this, and I'm going to start doing doing it. Thank you!

> Cover, put on high (I use gas). I like to suspend a paper towel between the lid and the rest of the pot, absorbs excess oil and water.

This is what I've been missing...

Knowing full well that you enjoy the popped corn enough to develop such a method. The one thing that took my basically verbatim instructions to the next level, was to add some “Butter Salt” in with the oil so the kernels are coated as they pop. It’ll give it that movie theatre yellow colour. It’s potent so not too much.

Also I usually toss in 3 kernels to the oil. When they pop you add the 1/3 cup as the oil is preheated and ready to get to work.

Kettle corn * ¼ cup coconut oil * ¼ cup white sugar * ½ cup unpopped popcorn kernels

Heat oil first. Use the 3 kernel method to make sure oil is hot enough then add sugar and rest of kernels. Use a large lightweight pot with lid to shake every few seconds or you get uneven coated or crispy burnt pieces.

I tried different oils and sugar mixes but coconut with white sugar seems the best.

I read there are ways to use an air fryer also but haven’t tried yet.

I'm somewhat of a fanatic on popcorn style... Take with a grain of salt.

> Take one large pot (the kind that holds like 10qts).

Ideally a dutch oven or similar heavy bottom that distributes heat well. This makes the process nearly foolproof on any heat source.

> Add a bit of oil, basically just enough to swirl and have everything covered in an oil sheen, not enough to have them submerged.

If you are looking for "movie theatre" popcorn the "secret" is using (extra virgin) coconut oil along with flavacol dissolved in the heated oil with the kernels popped in it. I use 2-3tbps of coconut oil and 2tsp of flavacol for 3/4 cup worth of kernels.

Flavacol should not be used as a topping imo, but as part of the popping substrate.

> Cover

This is tricky. Covering traps moisture released during popping, and moisture results in soggy (or at least not crisp!) popcorn. You do need some sort of cover though for obvious reasons.

I found a pot+metal strainer combo that fits perfectly together, where the strainer has about as many holes in it as you could get away with without creating oil splash mess. This lets as much steam as possible out immediately upon popping with as little kernel contact as possible. A more easy to come by lid is using a mesh oil cover meant for deep frying.

The commercial poppers accomplish this by having a very small popping pan, which kernels get "pushed out" of fairly quickly after they pop into a well vented holding tub.

> Toss 1/8 cup butter in the hot pot, melt the butter with residual heat.

Disagree on butter on popcorn, but it's a personal preference. I find butter makes popcorn soggy due to water content - and the flavacol+coconut oil is typically what most US theatre chains use vs. real butter, so it's what I "expect" the flavor to be. That said, I sometimes do melt up some butter to switch things up.

> Salt(I prefer a salt grinder)

I prefer pre-made popcorn salt in a wide metal popcorn salt shaker to really get a nice even spread.

> transfer back to the mixing bowl.

One trick: If you are making a lot of popcorn "to go" (e.g. for a party later) the best way I've found to keep it fresh is inside doubled-up paper grocery shopping bags. This helps soak up residual moisture, and the difference is noticeable after a few hours.

s/Parmesan/nutritional yeast/ for me
Buy a 20 USD hot air popcorn machine. No unpoped kernels and you add as little or as much oil/butter etc you want at the end. No cleanup needed either. Only downside is that they are loud.
Make oil-free microwave popcorn by buying a collapsible silicone bowl, filling it with kernels, and nuking it for 3 minutes. Low calorie snack, no mess, no cleanup. I find salt sticks to it best afterward by sprinkling with a little water.
The low calorie part is questionable. Popcorn has (off I remember right) quite a lot more calories than you'd expect.

Source: I started getting fat of popcorn every day and am typically considered skinny/fit. Then I read the label and got sad.

Unadorned popped kernels are relatively low calorie, I think - 3 cups is less than 100 calories. Popcorn is also a decent source of roughage.
Popcorn is 30cal per cup which is low calorie. Since you mention reading a label, the thing you’re getting fat from isn’t the popcorn but the fat added to it.

The comment you reply to specifically mentions oil-less popcorn which is a low calorie stack and a good source of fiber once you get used to not lathering it in butter or olive oil.

No, the kernels are very low calorie. It all comes down to how much fats you use (if any).
Fast food also. Not shocking since it’s all served in grease-blocking packaging.

It’s always depressing to eat inside a fast food restaurant, where they wrap all of your food in chemically treated packaging you almost immediately discard since it’s presumably cheaper and simpler than having washable dishes.

Take heart, because all the dishes and silverware in an upscale restaurant are likewise coated in contact poison. The reason being is that kitchens don't have the patience to air-dry their dishes, so they use chemical drying agents. These drying agents are toxic and they tend to leave a residue everywhere. So enjoy your fast food and know that you are in good company, no matter the number of Michelin stars.
Having just started my dishwasher with a rinse aid, I checked on some of the ingredients. All of them slightly toxic w/ little potential to bioaccumulate.

Do you know what chemicals or products restaurants tend to use?

All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.
My dishwasher manual suggested using white vinegar as a rinse aid alternative. I thought it might make the dishes smell like vinegar but it's been fine.
I use white vinegar to deodorize my clothes and can confirm that it evaporates when dried.
I'm sympathetic to this point of view but unless we're linking these so called toxins with a worse outcome how can we know they're actually causing harm? In all likelihood we'll die of a heart attack before any amount of toxins give us super cancer or whatever.
I feel this is somewhat misleading. One does not have to use these microwave popcorn bags, I have cooked popcorn in a microwave using a normal glass bowl, albeit covered with a plate. No oil required.
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Exactly! I wanted to post the same! This is misleading. The problem is the microwave bags not the microwave itself!
Ok this is a bit worrying indeed. I have to say I hardly ever eat that stuff, just because it's not even that nice. And it's full of hard fat.
+1 to all the old school recipes in here. Mine is slightly different, but no arguments. The dog gets excited because he knows he's getting some.

Microwave popcorn is an abomination, suitable only for annoying your fellow office workers. Especially if you burn it.

> people who ate microwave popcorn every day over the course of a year had levels of PFAS that were up to 63% higher than average.

You're probably fine if you have microwave popcorn once a fortnight, tho as other said you can use a pan or pot just fine.

Eating microwave popcorn every single day seems kind of insane lol
Until you realise that it's probably kids coming home from school and microwaving popcorn while both of their parents are at work still.
Until you realise that someone has to buy the popcorn, i.e. the parents.
Right … but it’s not unreasonable to buy your kid microwave popcorn unless you know it’s harmful which one would assume is not the case since you can get it in the supermarket. So like, the people who were included in the study were obviously consuming the popcorn in the absence of the study.
It's not reasonable to buy 7 packs a week though.

Supermarkets sell a lot of unhealthy food which will give you terrible results if you eat them everyday, so I don't think that's a good argument.

I've gone through periods where I'd bring it into work for lunches. Fast, cheap, and filling. Every single day does seem a bit extreme though.
I did it because I was doing stuff that caused me to get "the munchies" every night and a 440 calorie bag of popcorn was better for my health than an entire family sized bag of chips every night.
I just buy corn and pop them naturally with popcorn machine, I don’t add anything, and it’s good and healthy!
Mixing plastic and high temps is a bad idea in general.
I think the problem is with the popcorn and not the waves ^_^
I'd suspect the packaging more than the food
Reminder that PFAS is so pervasive that researchers can't design studies with a proper control group. i.e. they virtually cannot find anyone in the world without PFAS in their blood.

Dupont/3M did (and continue to do) a level of harm on par with CFCs and leaded gasoline, with complete regulatory impunity.

At some point the ICC needs to extend the crimes against humanity/nature to something like crimes against Human Health.

I agree.

However, how do you go after people who have so much money they can literally buy their way out of any appropriate punishment? We need something stronger than the ICC.

There are solutions but they exist only outside of the judicial system...
There is hope for refom, back in mediaval times judicial system had many creative punishments
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
> Dupont/3M did (and continue to do) a level of harm

3M is on The Economist today with relevance to this matter:

> 3M, an American conglomerate, agreed to pay cities and utilities $12.5bn to settle thousands of lawsuits that had alleged chemicals emitted by the firm's products had polluted drinking-water supplies

Nice. I’m guessing that’ll barely cover a years worth of filtration (which they won’t ever spend it on anyway). What about the next 100 years? Let them profit because oligarchy?
What about all the other cities in the world?

If the true cost of this damage were paid, 3M would be driven to bancrupsy. Maybe then the next conpany would not be so gun-ho about dumping strange chemicals.

This is your regular reminder that many of the wealthy are only so, because they never pay for the consequences of their actions.

It’s hard to blame it all on one class.

Littering was a social norm when these chemicals were invented. Even today, most Americans eat meat from factory farms, drive gas powered cars, and throw most trash in a landfill. Problems that will have to eventually be fixed.

If you’re born into this kind of society are you going to handicap yourself by holding yourself to a stricter set of rules than everyone else? The ‘yes’ and ‘no’s to that question don’t fall neatly into class lines.

> throw most trash in a landfill.

Is this some stranhe double-hypocracy?

If 3M put their crap is a properly contained landfill, millions of people wouldn't be poisoned!

'Sins of the consumer' is a toxic ideology!

If you want to be proactive about problems you need the political will to create and enforce rules. But nobody votes for rules that make people’s lives worse now, but future generations lives better. You can’t just blame rich people for that.

The political will didn’t exist for pfas back then, and it doesn’t exist for things like water scarcity, or antibiotic resistance, or e-waste today.

Knowingly poisoning people is a criminal offence, and always was. They knew their workers were dying from it, they had done studies that show it’s toxic.

No new laws are needed.

This is not the case of finding loopholes in laws or pushing a problem off to the next generation, like climate change.

This is a corporation profiting off someone’s death and getting away with it.

> No new laws are needed.

So the laws worked just fine, they just need to be enforced better? That’s exactly what a lack of political will looks like.

It would be billions more to:

1. Clean up PFAS from riverbeds and groundwater sediment.

2. Add PFAS cleaning stages in all water treatment systems across the globe.

At 12.5B, they are just paying up the people that can prove they now have cancer because of ridiculous exposure levels.

At 12.5B this is just the cost of doing business for Chem industry.

>At 12.5B, they are just paying up the people that can prove they now have cancer because of ridiculous exposure levels.

Probably not even that.

PFAS 'forever chemicals' cost society €16 trillion a year

https://euobserver.com/green-economy/157075

This is absurd. The GDP of the entire world is on the order of ~$100T. How can this article claim that 15% of all GDP is spent/lost due to PFAS without going through absurd calculations like how long it would take to remove every bit of it from water supplies using current inefficient methods? (Obv I'm not paying for a euobserver subscription)
This page contains the figures / calculations (first link in the euobserver's article).

https://chemsec.org/reports/the-top-12-pfas-producers-in-the...

The top 12 PFAS producers in the world and the staggering societal costs of PFAS pollution

Only twelve companies account for a majority of the PFAS production in the world. PFAS production is hardly profitable, but the cost for society is massive.

> Reminder that PFAS is so pervasive that researchers can't design studies with a proper control group. i.e. they virtually cannot find anyone in the world without PFAS in their blood.

The very pervasiveness argues against PFAS being that bad for humans in real life. Despite pretty much everyone having PFAS in their blood, at a global level, health is probably better than ever and most health problems are from refined sugars and sedentary lifestyle than anything that can be attributed to PFAS.

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Is it possible to substitute the PFAS with a wax coating?
Most waxes melt at about body temperature. You’d be eating waxed popcorn.
Most waxes are made from fossil fuels anyway (because money).
> My kids eat microwaved popcorn almost every night. Should I be worried?

Wouldn't they risk getting obese?

Popcorn are very low calories and they're quite filling
While popcorn itself is low calorie and filling most microwave popcorn includes loads of oil which is fairly energy dense.
What's PFAS? <reads article> Oh, something with a scary-sounding name that Californians can be frightened of, like hydrogen hydroxide.