Apollo is dead. Long live Apollo

1036 points by bears-n-beets ↗ HN
I was actively using the app on my phone and it suddenly crashed at 4:10pm PDT. I thought it was just my phone acting up but then I realized that’s about 12am UTC. With the death of Apollo also goes the metaphorical death of all the best parts (IMO) of the internet: open-source, creativity, entrepreneurial spirit. Sad day. I guess I’ll go outside now.

Edit: sorry, Apollo wasn’t open source. That’s what happens when I make a post while two beers deep I guess. Hopefully you get the general spirit of what I was trying to convey.

389 comments

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> With the death of Apollo also goes the metaphorical death of all the best parts (IMO) of the internet: open-source,

Apollo was Open Source?

Sorry, that was definitely the wrong phrase to use. I was reaching for a term I couldn’t find - something that conveys the concept of “freedom” on the internet - like the ability to leverage an existing tool/service and build upon it and make it better?
Sync is also dead. They just sent out a push notification: "Sync for reddit had shutdown. Thank you for using Sync. It's been one hell of a ride."
Yep. It was fun. I'm done with reddit I guess.
apparently there is going to be a Sync for Lemmy. Hopefully we also get Apollo for Lemmy and get rid of reddit for good.
On that note, does anyone know if there’s any decent lemmy mobile apps? I searched a bit but couldn’t find anything meaningful
https://join-lemmy.org/apps this page lists various Lemmy interfaces. I've just joined the mlem testflight and it's decent. It also seems to be improving quite quickly now that people are flooding to Lemmy.
For Android there's Jerboa which seems to have the most features and Liftoff which is still getting there. Personally I like Thunder which supports iOS as well, I got it off GitHub
While Jerboa is an app created by the core developer of Lemmy, it's not as official app and the developer treat it as a personal project and freely blocks any instance he don't like there. I understand it's within his right to do so, but I still find it concerning due to his association with Lemmy and how many people think it's the official app.
On a similar note, the Boost dev who previously said they were not interested in making a Lemmy app seems to have changed their mind, their Play store account now has Boost for Lemmy available for pre-registration (waitlist essentially).
Apollo for Federated... ::drool::
There was a brilliant little Reddit app for the Apple Watch (!) called Nano. It is also dead.

Such a shame. Made it super easy to browser Reddit anywhere.

The same dev also has “mini” Apple Watch apps for Steam, Wikipedia, and Elon’s Musk.

sigh. Android Sync was one of the best reddit apps i have used. it had tons of customization, never crashed, snappy, had multi-window support etc. Apollo on iOS was a distant second.
Agreed, Sync was perfection. It got a little rocky with the redesign, but I think the dev handled it masterfully by rolling back for a bit and taking stock. The re-launch allowed you to configure the UI of the app any way you liked, so you could go for an "old.reddit" style information dense UI if you wanted it.
Sync was exquisite I just had to pay for it. Apollo was good, I used it on iPad, but Sync captured well so many of reddit little things like domain browsing, multireddits etc
I pretty much only like Reddit for niche communities and fighting shit google results.

The latter is a necessity but for the former there’s other communities to satiate my needs. It’s just that it’s a bit of a fragmented way of diving into my interests.

Is there such a thing as a forum aggregator?

Where are these other communities? I can’t find them. And no, I don’t count Discord as an acceptable replacement. Googling for old-school forums has been pretty fruitless for me thus far as Google is basically useless without appending site:reddit.com these days (the supreme irony of that…)
I guess it depends on how niche your interests are. I’m mainly into electronic music machines and synth diy. There’s enough forums for me. There’s other stuff that I frequent on Reddit but at the end of the day it’s usually just crap to distract me that I could do without.
I'm part of a lot of smaller women-centered communities on reddit - my favorite subreddits were r/MoneyDiariesACTIVE, r/FIREyFemmes, r/girlsgonewired r/adhdwomen, r/AmateurRoomPorn, r/AskWomenOver30, etc. Not all of these are explicitly for women only but they all have a majority female user base. I don't think there are equivalents in a forum-type format; I'd probably have to go to TikTok or something, but I don't care for that format so I'll probably just lose those communities for the most part.
The big "mostly women" subreddit I'll miss, despite being a guy, is the /r/RomanceBooks subreddit. It is hands down the best book community on reddit. At least as far as community and moderation goes. It sounds like the mods don't think the alternatives are technologically mature enough.
Most gaming groups moved to discord, like it or not. But it does help discover some niches once you want deeper knowledge than what a wiki would give.
I am confused, 12:00am UTC is 8:00pm EDT. So UTC 12:00 should be 11:00 pm PDF. It is 7:40 EDT as I type this on June 30

EDIT: was in junethack while typing this, yes 5pm PDT is 12 UTC :)

confused is the expected state when thinking about timezones so you have nothing to worry about.
The author posted on Twitter ~20 minutes ago that he shut it down early, due to some change in the API causing crashes. I presume he had been expecting to shut it down at midnight in some American time zone.

> Well, looks like Reddit pulled the plug a little early. Apollo started crashing, but I just manually revoked my token and it looks like it fixes the crashing, but no more Reddit access haha. Those folks are fun to the very end! > @ChristianSelig > 6:49 PM (CDT) · Jun 30, 2023

Source: https://twitter.com/ChristianSelig/status/167492828678112461...

Reddit is Fun is also gone.
I noticed that I could use it when logged out.
The writing was on the wall, but as a user for a decade+ opening it to see "No threads here. Tap to refresh." is a little jarring
RIP Bacon Reader.

Reddit, you’ve burned so much goodwill.

I’ve been an enthusiastic user for over 14 years. Now I’m planning to delete my content.

At one point recently, I got excited about applying for an engineering leadership position with you, but this debacle has made me realize your senior leadership is not who I want to be reporting to.

Please don't delete it without adding it to the Internet archive first
Putting the content somewhere else defeats the whole purpose of deleting it.
not really, it'd be outside the garden wall, and thus not monetizable by reddit
Can reddit issue requests to archive or whichever site is used to do it and have them taken down ? Or worse yet, rebuild their deleted history from the archives and THEN issue takedowns? I am realizing I have no serious idea how archival of digital content works legally.
User-provided content is provided under a license between the user providing it and the site hosting it -- inherently, because otherwise the site wouldn't be allowed to do anything with it at all. Generally this takes the form of the site's ToS saying that the user gives the site a perpetual license to use the content however they want, but generally not an exclusive license.

As such, and I'm not a lawyer and can't promise this is true, I suspect that reddit couldn't actually do takedowns on someone who's archiving their user-provided content. Any specific user whose content was archived without their consent could do so, however.

When Reddit owns the delete button, they control what happens when you press it. There’s no need for them to rebuild their deleted history. It’s still there (even if it’s inaccessible to the world)
What is the whole purpose of deleting it? To me it seems to be to punish Reddit, so why does it need to be off the Internet entirely?
Use a GDPR delete request, otherwise your content will resurface after a while.
How?
Reddit has been quietly undeleting content in the last few weeks.
How to use a "GDPR delete request"?
No, it hasn't. Their software is just shit, and it lets you access only the last 1k comments/posts on each view of a given collection (e.g. saved comments, posts on a given subreddit sorted by hot, your own comments sorted by new, your own comments sorted by best).

It also doesn't let you touch comments/posts that you cannot access - i.e, if you post on a subreddit, and it goes private, you won't be able to see, edit, or delete any of the comments on that subreddit unless it goes public again. They just won't appear in your history.

Put the two together, and it doesn't matter what kind of delete script you run: if you launch it on your /new page, it'll drop the last 1k comments, minus any comments made in subreddits that might still be private, and stop there. Older content, and content in subreddits that returned to being public after the fact, will still be around.

What I'll miss most from BaconReader is the Android widgets, which as far as I can tell, are not available through either the official app or anything else.

It was super convenient to be able to display a sub or /r/all on my phone's home pages, and I used it every day to keep up with current events or my favorite hobbies without needing to open any apps. For many years that's been a core part of how I use my phone, and I will sorely miss it :(

If Reddit someday added something as nice as BaconReader's widgets to their app I might give it a shot. But looking at the design they used for their iOS app, which apparently does have a widget, I don't have high hopes for it (https://old.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/kdycmj/introduci...).

Other than that, no plans to use Reddit on mobile anymore. One less bad habit, I guess.

Apollo had a slew of widgets for a variety of use cases. In fact the Apollo dev was quick to jump on many of the new ios APIs and had many nifty little features that will never make it to the official app.

Guess it’s all a moot point by now.

So where is everybody going after reddit?
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm going to try giving up internet comment sections for a while to try and see if I can live without them. I have wasted far too much time on Reddit, Hacker News, and recently Lemmy (which I tried to use as a Reddit replacement).

The articles themselves would be nice to keep around, I haven't found enough RSS feeds to make my feed reader app populated enough. I will probably make a userscript to disable comments here, use Kagi search to minimize the amount of Reddit in my search queries, and overall use a solution like Screen Time to try to limit use of other sites I spend way too much time on.

I know a lot of users are going to Lemmy or Kbin, both of which are on the Fediverse.

Same. I'm actually attempting to make my own, but in similar motivation from your comment, i'm trying to make mine reduce engagement. I want something that explores the positives of social/link-aggs/etc, but doesn't try to keep engagement high.

Something that lets you check it once a day and not feel like you missed anything. etcetc

I think there were good things about Reddit but it is scary how deeply Reddit (and frankly, HN) have driven muscle memory and addictive doomscroll behavior. I'd love to see more people explore features which attempt to extract user value from these platforms but minimize addictive features.

Difficult, but a fun area to explore.

Lots of communities on Reddit have started the process of migrating to different platforms. The federated alternatives like Lemmy have had recent success although I question the complexity of it all in terms of getting mass adoption. Most of the alternatives seem to be missing the core idea of what Reddit really is (a community of communities). I think first and foremost it's the community aspect of Reddit that makes it appealing.

I've been building a platform called Sociables which is intentionally not just another Reddit clone. We are trying to create an all-in-one place for people to create communities first and foremost and not just posts.

Here's an example of a community:

https://sociables.com/community/Sociables/board/trending

Looked at this last night briefly before going to bed and said I'd check it again today but then got distracted by the whole twitter fiasco.

This looks awesome dude way to go :D

I forgot the link was in this thread (didn't bookmark it). It was a real pain trying to find it via google or startpage (until I remembered what thread I was reading last night) I remembered "sociable" but searches for "sociable social media platform" and even "sociable site:news.ycombinator.com" yielded zilch.

Long story short I'd suggest working on your SEO just a little you're competing with "sociable.co". But design+concept are 10/10 as far as I'm concerned, god speed o7

Since the Apollo dev broke the news, I'm trying out Lemmy and it's an interesting alternative. Definitely too new to say what will happen to it, but looks promising.
I’ve been trying very hard not to go anywhere. Though… hi, here I am. I’ve set myself a 15 minute a day limit for news.ycombinator.com on my phone, doesn’t apply to my laptop but I’m less concerned about that.
Perhaps Github? It is not social media as such, but technically it could be used as such. A kind of "intent hacking". A repo = subreddit. Issues = posts with comments. Regardless, I think I will spend more time there, since I have some small personal projects in mind.
lemmy is trying, but it's pretty bad as a replacement.
Lemmy has scratched the itch for me. Obviously not as big or thorough as Reddit, but I’ve found a lot of the niches I used to frequent on Reddit, and they’re fairly active.
It is not, and doesn't even try to be, a Reddit replacement, but https://tildes.net has impressed me with its quality of discussion. More akin to HN, but with a subreddit-like system to facilitate a wider range of topics than is usually found here.
One option not mentioned so far: gemini://bbs.geminispace.org

Also +1 to https://tildes.net

The important thing: use multiple sites to hedge your habits against such issues.

Trying kbin and lemmy. Both are compatible with each other through activitypub federation (aka fediverse), so choose an instance of either and browse away.

It's still very quiet compared to what reddit was. Not yet enough users to support the niche communities which made reddit special (IMO), but I'm trying to contribute anyways, hopefully building it up a bit.

Losing reddit is sad, the feeling to me is a bit similar to when we lost supernova, then what.cd. An internet jewel that will never be the same again.

"Suprnova", but definitely point taken!
Not going anywhere. None of the subs I follow (~20) moved away
I think Lemmy and Kbin has the most potential due to their federated nature. I have found several vibrant communities with interesting and thoughtful discussions across many instances there. Too bad some of the largest instances started doing these de-federation shenanigans recently. I'm on my own personal instance so I'm not affected so far, but it does concerns me. Imagine if Gmail de-federate from Yahoo mail so users of both sites can't talk to each other (but can talk to the rest of the internet). This is absurd and has the potential to kill the fediverse if the practice is unchecked. There has to be a way to moderate discussion without abusing de-federation.
So far HN and Tildes furfilled most of my browsing. Have a KBin account I keep tabs on and I'm helping to fund Non.io (not really ready yet, but I'm happy gambling on the long game).

(Btw, I have Tildes invites for anyone who still sees this comment. Feel free to reply to ask for one).

Bye, Apollo. I kind of feel like a drug has been taken away from me. It’s is going to take a bit to adjust to not using Reddit on my phone, as I refuse to use their app.
110% agree... I have occasionally today looked at my phone like Hm....... nothing to do here, and then just stared out the window. There's always opportunities to learn instead, but I already learn for hours a day.
I've been reading. No clickbait. No ragebait.

Just Discworld and its hilarious inhabitants.

I stopped browsing Reddit 2 months ago and switched that time to reading Discworld too! It’s fantastic. I just started Mort. It feels like an incredibly more rewarding use of my time. Terry Pratchet really is wonderful.
GNU Terry Pratchett
Lemmy with Wefwef (if you can get past the odd name) has gone a long way to smoothing the transition process for me

http://wefwef.app/

Woke up this morning with no Apollo to scroll through as I wake up and wait for my medication to work. It was definitely weird, but not bad.
Still using Boost with the ReVanced patch[0]. No telling how long that will last though. Regardless, I'm massively scaling back my use of Reddit.

[0] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wHvqQwCYdJrQg4BKlGIVDLks...

Edit: For those interested, the patch just lets you use your own API key. But the dev is no longer supporting the app and there's no telling whether the bring-your-own-key strategy will work in the long term, considering Reddit's recent behavior.

Boost is still working for me on the standard API key. I wonder how long that will last.
I’ve long used Apollo to hold an alt account.

I just downloaded the official app and logged in. In 3 minutes I deleted it.

Ignoring design issues, all of a sudden the official app grabbed ALL Reddit links and if I viewed Reddit in Safari there was an unremovable “Open in the app” banner above the Safari content that couldn’t be removed.

No way. Deleted.

The last year has just destroyed so much of the value I get out of the internet.

Apollo had an optional safari extension that caught Reddit URLs and opened them in Apollo instead. It was great.
And it worked flawlessly too. Apollo was really a cut above anything I’ve seen out there. Was holding out hope that Reddit would reverse course, but I suppose not.
I don’t blame Christian. Spez, on a whim, decided to basically destroy his livelihood, with basically no notice. Then Spez kept doubling down and accused Christian of extortion, repeating the accusations after it was proven they were false.

I would sell the app even if they reversed course. I wouldn’t trust they wouldn’t do it again. I wouldn’t trust they’d ruin me some other way.

If they had said “we’re doing this in 6 months” and then listened to the community, that’s different. But Spez burnt the bridge to the ground and poured toxic waste on it.

I'm not sure how much of a whim Reddit had.

A Virginia law was signed into effect on May 12th that required commercial entities that distributed "material harmful to minors" to verify the age of the users or be exposed to civil penalties. That law goes into effect in 3 hours.

I don't see how that could be related to reddit charging for their API.
NSFW content didn't show without an account for years. What's the difference between using the same account in the official app or on the website or third party apps?

Additionally one of the API changes which also goes is into effect is that they won't serve NSFW content on the paid API. So even if you pay you only get half of Reddit.

Hell, they could have banned all real NSFW content. Would have been a big deal, but wouldn’t have interfered with 3rd party apps or anything I use Reddit for.

Any NSFW stuff (due to laws, investments, advertisers, anything) had nothing to do with the API decision. They may have done them at the same time, but it wasn’t needed.

That or old.reddit is probably the next big schism in the making. The NSFW fiasco may cause some significant change if it ever does happen.
Classic correlation not being causation.
How is that solved by charging for the API?
It makes it much easier to pass liability around and argue that the 3rd party app, with access to location services can verify if the person is in Virginia or not. If they aren't upholding the age verification law, you've got a credit card account tied with an individual or company that the person suing can be pointed to.
There's no possible way this is the cause. Like, at all. The simple sniff test is that blast radius of the passing of this law would be way way way larger than "reddit charges for API". We'd see many other sites follow suit with reddit.

IANAL but I'll put down $100 that this law has nothing to do with reddit's API changes. First person to prove me wrong gets it. I'd like a quote from spez that says, paraphrased "If Virginia didn't pass the law we wouldn't have started charging for the API".

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/15/23762868/reddit-ceo-steve...

> Huffman has argued the changes are a business decision to force AI companies training on Reddit’s data to pony up, but they’re also wiping out some beloved Reddit apps, and thousands of subreddits have gone dark for days in protest.

They want to charge for what they believe the data is worth.

Not for usage, but value.

> They want to charge for what they believe the data is worth.

Counter argument: it’s not their data to charge for. And if they want to claim it is their data then they should be held accountable for the content therein.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t recoup costs for access to said data. You do after all pay taxes and get access to local libraries and archives. But they shouldn’t be extorting third-party developers.

I agree.

They built a platform so that we could create communities and manage them how we want to.

We posted information. We created content. We exchanged ideas, had discussions, and we all helped each other.

I’m fine with them recouping their costs. I’m fine with them even making a bit off of it. However,

> I'll cut to the chase: 50 million requests costs $12,000, a figure far more than I ever could have imagined.

> For reference, I pay Imgur (a site similar to Reddit in user base and media) $166 for the same 50 million API calls.

My understanding is that Christian is grandfathered into an older plan on Imgur. Having said that, the Mega plan is $10,000 per month for 150,000,000 requests. If we use this pricing, 50,000,000 api calls is $3,333.34 (vs Reddit’s $12,000)

https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_ca...

https://rapidapi.com/imgur/api/imgur-9/pricing

The announcements that they were going to charge for API access was in April. https://www.redditinc.com/blog/2023apiupdates . Mature content being restricted was mentioned in https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_r... and in https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/12ram0f/had_a_fe... it was stated that Imgur also banned sexually explicit uploads the same day.

While "yes, that was April, the law wasn't signed until May", it passed 96-0 ( https://legiscan.com/VA/votes/SB1515/2023 ) in February and the recommendations from the Governor to change it was rejected on April 12th.

The timeline of when that switchover would happen was at the end of May when 3rd party developers said that they wouldn't be able to continue past June 30th.

---

I don't believe that the change was "Virginia Law -> do all these things" but rather "these things are in motion... Virginia Law -> several of these things in motion must be done by July 1."

> I don't believe that the change was "Virginia Law -> do all these things" but rather "these things are in motion... Virginia Law -> several of these things in motion must be done by July 1."

I do agree with you here - Virginia's mature content law probably had something to do with NSFW content in the API. The API pricing was just poor decision making occurring at the same time. (Apologies if my previous comment was a little unkind).

They didn’t even have to reverse course for this to work out. Just give a reasonable runway before beginning to charge for the API (to give third party clients enough time to adjust their subscription customers who may have just paid for a year), and charge a reasonable price.

Two months before starting to charge $0.24 per 1,000 requests is nothing but unreasonable.

I wish Reddit had just plainly said, “We don’t want third party clients anymore.” This whole thing would’ve been cleaner. Still bad, but I don’t think it would’ve been nearly as ugly.

Why are the apps being charged for api access and not the people using them?
Reddit never intended for anyone to pay for API access, that's why the costs were so high. The intent all along was to kill all third party apps through unreasonable pricing of API access so they could funnel users to the official app and inundate them with extremely intrusive ads.

If they had presented the ridiculously high cost of API access to users it would have been more overtly user hostile. By targeting the app developers the surface area of who they were directly screwing was smaller (though they are of course actually screwing all the users of those apps anyway).

This also explains why reddit made all sorts of illogical arguments to make the app developers seem like the bad guys, to try to deflect blame away from them and to the app developers.

They were just super incompetent at doing that effectively, so it was incredibly transparent.

The premium account holders don't see ads in reddit. All Reddit had to do was require premium accounts for users that wanted to use 3rd party apps. If you want to keep using yoru 3rd party app, then sign up and pay or shut up and go home.

It would have been a much more logical change for everyone involved.

I think it's just a play to bump up their in-app DAU for increased IPO valuation. Fuck the users, all about the short term gains. I'm curious what the percentage of people accessing the site via the official app vs all other avenues was before all this shit
> I'm curious what the percentage of people accessing the site via the official app vs all other avenues was before all this shit

Reddit CEO Steve Huffman said 95% of iOS app users use the official app.

> You go to the App Store, you type in Reddit, you get two options, right? There’s Apollo. You go to one, it’s my business, and you look at our ads, use our products. That’s 95 percent of our iOS users. The rest go to Apollo[…]

Source: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/15/23762868/reddit-ceo-steve...

I can't think of any software that the end-user pays API fees or even supplies their own API key/token. I've only ever needed to supply that when interacting with APIs directly in a developer setting. That, or open-source projects that require API access from some 3rd party.
Spotify does. Can't use any 3rd party apps without having a premium account.
Reddit could of done the same. Reddit subscription for your account that a 3rd party like apollo can use.
I recall a fairly brief period a few years back where Twitter rate limited 3rd party API keys so heavily the apps basically stopped working... so some apps just put a feature in to input your own API key which you could get for free as a developer key at the time.
Passing it on to the users wouldn't have required billing by API key, just gate at authentication instead.

Rate-limit unauthenticated requests per API key and authenticated requests per account. Problem solved. Turn $0.12/month users into $5.99/month users, and don't worry that the 3rd-party apps aren't showing ads - because Premium users don't get ads anyway.

I kept it tuned off since I used it for my alt account and usually just wanted to use the web version.

I see why it’s useful. But I couldn’t find a way to turn it off so it was messing with my normal workflow.

That was a nice feature, but there are other apps that do this without consent and I don't like it. For example, if you have the NY Times app installed and tap on a link in Safari that leads to a NY Times article, it automatically opens it in the NY Times app. iOS has no user controls for this behavior. The only way around it is to long-press on the link and pick "open in new tab", or uninstall the app.

  > iOS has no user controls for this behavior
Actually, it does but they are shockingly unintuitive and hidden. The best way to change your preference among supported link handlers is to copy a URL, paste it into the notes app, then long press that link and choose “open with” either safari or your preferred app. That will stick until the next time you long press a link in this way.

An iOS developer for JIRA taught me this when I submitted feedback that the JIRA app suddenly stopped intercepting links (probably because I had inadvertently long-pressed to open a link in safari, not knowing I was setting a preference by doing so)

Woah! Is there any other way to do this or any way to do it directly from Safari?
Not the parent but I’m 99% sure there is no other way.
Other apps with text boxes besides notes can do the same, but safari specifically can’t. Why, I haven’t the faintest idea.
old.reddit.com is somehow still a better mobile Safari experience than the new Reddit site.
Yup, their own app makes Reddit unusable. Thing is, even if their app was great I'd still not use it. I can't stand being in someone's walled garden force fed content like Clockwork Orange.
You can install "Sink it for Reddit" to remove that obnoxious "pretty please install our app." banner. It also does other stuff to make their mobile website not as bad, but it still isn't a great experience.
RedReader for Android, and Dystopia for iOS were both granted exemptions to the new API pricing by Reddit due to their accessibility and non-commercial nature.
I'll give it 2 months at most until Reddit will claim that their own app is now accessible enough to shut down the other apps.
Joey on Android with text to speech feature also seems to be working. The developer has been very quiet throughout ordeal, hopefully there's an exemption as well.
With all due respect to the developer of Dystopia, the experience compared to Apollo is subpar.

I tried twice already to use Dystopia, but I can’t really force myself. Probably just for the best to give up on Reddit.

I’m giving Lemmy a try using wefwef.app
I am actually quite sad about this. I noticed the same thing re Apollo app no longer working. I used Apollo to interact with a number of communities and have tried the official app and the website (both new and old) and simply cannot use them in the same manner as I used Apollo. I am done with Reddit now and the void created by losing the communities I interacted with has left me with a feeling of loneliness. Damn you u/spez.
I'm curious what happens to reddit now. I'm guessing just auto pilot of low effort content. Don't think it'll truly die as far as numbers go.
Sure, they've got the numbers. But there's no life.

I picture the hordes of zombies in The Walking Dead, unknowingly led by a select few ghastly humans wearing zombie masks.

Yeah, I personally suspect it will be a slow death march over the course of a few years, culminating in it basically becoming 9gag.
Nothing. Apollo was less than 1% of users. It would be interesting to a see a survey to see what population of Reddit was affected by these changes or cared.
I think it's more important to know how many are content creators and posters that are effected.
I think the bigger issue is that Apollo (and other apps such as RIF) were amazing tools for moderators, with the official app lacking a lot of features the unofficial clients had.
I recently described it to a friend as trying to get from point A to point B in ankle deep water when using 3rd party apps compared to waist deep water in the official app - sure, you can do it but it’s going to take significantly more time and effort.

So if you’re constantly popping in and checking things throughout the day, that extra time and effort really adds up. By killing these user friendly apps that a large portion of power users and mods preferred, it’s Reddit showing all of these dedicated unpaid contributors that their time and effort don’t matter to the company. Steve spit directly in all of our faces repeatedly over the past month and now most of us are actively rooting against the success of an IPO. I hope he continues to be the 3rd most successful Reddit cofounder, and his name never gets mentioned in a positive light within YC/HN.

What is missing in the official app? And how many mods are using a mobile app rather than a desktop env? A desktop browser seems like it would be infinitely better than a mobile experience.
can you tell me how to view posts as a gallery? can you also tell me how to create a link with username and subreddit below a post and when you click it, it takes you to the sub or the users profile? Such a simple thing...
Im not sure. Are those moderator functions? I was curious about the OPs statement regarding missing mod functions.
barely any moderator uses mobile for moderating, it's absolutely horrible, even with third party tools

most of the "power users" on the reddit (and I'd guess every other website) are good old fashioned desktop users

Apollo was much better for actually interacting with Reddit: voting, commenting, digging into posted content.

The Reddit app is designed to keep you scrolling down your feed past advertisements.

Apollo and its compatriots were used by actual users; they may not have made up a huge percentage, but they made it what it is.

It may have only been 1% of users, but what percent of active contributing users was it? What percent of active mods?

The people who paid for a third-party app to make using and working with Reddit easier and more convenient are the power users.

I don't know if you're a regular Reddit user, but if you are have you looked through /r/popular in the past? Recently? What's bubbling to the 'top' of Reddit right now is significantly lower quality content than what used to be there. A lot of that is likely due to so many mods effectively going on strike, but do you think that's going to improve when Reddit's employees remove all those mods, reopen subs and appoint whoever wants to request moderator status as the new mods? Hint: it's not going to be all sunshine and flowers.

I like what one of the mods of IIRC /r/canning posted within the last week or so when Reddit started getting serious with threatening messages - he noted that the mods of that subreddit are there because they have specific subject matter knowledge and canning things wrong kills people. If that subreddit is forced open with mods appointed by Reddit employees and dangerous advice becomes a regular thing, does Reddit have any liability? Can an attorney make enough of a case that they do to drag them into court?

Reddit will continue to exist, but will never come back.
I hear you. I only get the courage to post a comment when I'm beers deep; it doesn't always go well.

I feel you did great!

That's very nice, thank you :) Pros and cons of lowered inhibition I guess haha
I remember signing up for Reddit as a college freshman. I was a digg user and joined Reddit in the aftermath of that fiasco. I sometimes laugh looking over my post history for the past decade plus. If you read the posts linearly, you can trace my evolution from a kid arguing passionately over politics and culture (things he didn't really know much about), to a more mature young adult who rarely waded into discussions unless he had something meaningful to contribute. To me now, as a 31 year old man, who mainly posts on a few private subreddits full of likeminded people (and still occasionally gets into arguments about things he knows nothing about).

Until today I had not really mentally processed that Reddit as we knew it was going away. Until a hour or two ago I started get Rate Limits on Reddit Sync. At first I thought it was some kind of bug. Then noticed the date.

Like others mentioned, it will take some getting used to not having it. I've already noticed since the blackouts that "site:reddit.com" is less effective than it was even a month or two ago: some of the key subreddits I used have gone and stayed dark. I wish the owners of Reddit the best in turning their website into TikTok. But if I have need for mindless entertainment, I'll probably just use TikTok directly. The small communities of likeminded people are not as easy to replace, and will be missed.

Thanks for sharing. I also joined reddit as a college freshman (2012). I don't even remember how I discovered reddit - I want to say maybe via StumbleUpon? My trajectory is pretty similar to yours. It's pretty surreal to have a community I actively participated in for my entire adult life essentially go dark in an instant. Of course the website still exists, but it certainly won't be the same.
You summed it up nicely. I followed a lot of tech stuff, and sci-fi, etc, stuff it’s hard to find on traditional social media. Following a tech Instagram will never be like seeing Netflix’s engineers posting to r/Kubernetes for an outage in the middle of the night.

And even if I wanted to keep using Reddit, a lot of brain drain has already happened, so it’s so much less useful already, and it really feels like one of my favorite tools is suddenly obsolete.

If we’re having a wake…

I remember when I accidentally became a moderator of /r/science because they asked for variety of domain expertise and I’m a geographer and c’mon… nobody’s a geographer. It was a fun experience. Then became an educational one. Then frustrating. Then thankless. Then I stopped.

I’m happy for the lessons. I’m sad it died years ago.

I had totally forgotten that you had a flair showing your expertise. I did some computer vision stuff for a while. You wouldn’t recognize r/science of the early days though. Reddit is a completely different site.
r/science is now r/poorStudiesThatJustifyMyBeliefs
You aren’t kidding. Add r/Psychology to that list. It’s all bad social science studies now.

“Study Proves Republicans are Dumb”

I’m fairly certain that rephrased versions of “Study Proves Trump Voters have low IQ” are posted there just about weekly, and the rest is just psychedelic research.

It’s one of the laws of the internet: as the size of a community grows, the quality approaches a stadium full of drunk sweaty sports fans.

One of the reasons I hope hacker news stays relatively obscure. Fingers crossed
Agreed. I’ve definitely already noticed a significant decline in comment quality here since the Reddit debacle.
^^ Comments like this are low value. “Things are getting bad”. No proof or evidence.
Not just r/science. The hard part is that this logic applies also to "word/science" and to "world/society", and that this issue of belief confirmation will deepen until we learn to sufficiently value public good (knowledge discovery is a part of it) in our capitalist societies. Not easy... Unfortunately, it may take another World War for our societies to value public good more than we do currently. Call me a pessimist or give me reasons to think differently.
Im a systems engineer who works with 5 geographers, and a director who is a double PhD geographer. The geospatial engineering we do is a thing of art, and affects over 11 million people.

I get it!

Geographers are like wizards: there’s only so many of us at any one time. I’m amazed your company has amassed six!
Sounds very interesting, can you expand a bit more on what exactly your team does?
r/science went from being one of the highest quality places on the whole internet... to being like the rest of the internet
I can trace my earliest account to middle school. You can imagine the cringe on there...
If every Reddit user was tagged with their age, it would be an eye-opening experience. "Why is this 16-year-old talking about divorce lawyers on r/relationship_advice?"
> "Why is this 16-year-old talking about divorce lawyers on r/relationship_advice?"

The opposite has occurred and it wasn't very pretty to look at.

Huh? Divorce lawyers talking on r/teenagers about relationship advice?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/djdmd9/we_banned_all...

/r/drama banned people who posted in /r/teenagers and brought to surface a whole bundle of pedos

Talk about dark patterns. Reddit has disabled scrolling down on mobile devices. Well that ends my reddit usage.
Yeah, reddit has been mobile hostile for a few years now. Hope this forcing more users to the site reveals that.

Granted, I don't think anything will change, but complacency is the moment reddit truly dies.

A 16 year old with recently divorced parents probably has some reasonable insight there.
Well said. Although one aspect that makes this both sadder and stranger is that we all watched Twitter do the same thing just a few months ago with awful results. Sure, the sites will still live for a long time, but the versions that existed as of last year are forever gone.
Don’t worry too much. It’s a cycle, new sites will appear to fill the gap and they will go through approximately the same evolution.
I joined Reddit almost 15 years ago, shortly before I became a freshman in high school. I mainly joined it to chat on r/programming back when that was one of the top subreddits. I was just starting out as a programmer and it was instrumental on teaching me the subject. It also taught me about life in general as a relatively sheltered introvert.

Fast forward 15 years, I now have a PhD largely due to the path that community helped set me on. You could follow a very similar journey of maturity for me through my Reddit history (and that’s the main reason I haven’t flushed my posts, even if I was an idiot at 14 that was my personal journey). The Reddit I joined changed a lot — we had characters like Bozarking and there was a strong libertarian element in contrast to today’s left leanings. I remember the Digg exodus changing Reddit fundamentally but not necessarily for the worse. The big subs declined by the niche ones blossomed and taught me much about my hobbies.

While I don’t expect to fully leave (Google will lead me there or I might have a question where I am not sure what other site has a pertinent community to ask), my use will decline 99% or more. I have long been aware a lot of Reddit has sucked but there was still a lot of value to be had. It’s also been apparent for years that Reddit, the company, has zero clue what users actually want (hint: it’s not 3 separate chat implementations, nfts, and profile pictures), however this open hostility towards the users and mods who volunteer their time (mods have had their problems but generally they are good, after all, you only notice the bad mods).

I won’t miss most of the absent scrolling I do on Reddit, but it also has been a bit like my childhood friend passing away. I am not sure what my online future will look like, but it will be strange without Reddit being there.

> r/programming back when that was one of the top subreddits.

It was also a default one, IIRC, and when I joined had far more activity than /r/funny. Pretty sure a lot of people were very upset when it stopped being a default.

I was teaching myself to code when I first encountered Reddit, and I followed the language hype on proggit as if it were gospel - I learned Common Lisp because proggit was giddy that Reddit was written in it at the time, and I subsequently learned about macros, and functional programming, and that Erik Naggum wants you to get off his damn lawn and stop asking dumb questions in comp.lang.lisp, then it was the Ruby hype, then Erlang, then Haskell etc.

All very interesting stuff to delve into, but yeah, I thought I'd never get a job programming if I was struggling with Haskell's type system, look at all the regular workaday coders on Reddit who're loving it! (I know, I know.)

That said, I really benefited from the Erlang hype period, the ideas in Erlang/OTP were very interesting indeed, even if I didn't quite understand what a finite state machine was, and what it was useful for, when trying to grok gen_fsm. But the actor model, the deliberate choice to treat failure as normal and build accordingly, that stuck with me all these years. Hell, I even ended up printing off Joe Armstrong's thesis to read on the bus to work.

Reddit was a great replacement for forums, especially for technical topics, IMO. But their "reopen the sub or else landed gentry" approach directly hurts tech communities, because the mods of a technical sub are often domain experts in the technology it's focused on, and a lot will disengage and move on.

At least, I know two of my fellow mods in a small technical sub have disengaged dramatically because of Reddit's approach, and they will be a massive loss to the sub.

But then, small tech subreddits aren't exactly a massive money-making market niche, so yeah. It is sad though.

The end of an era. I doubt a young person can emulate your growth by regularly using reddit now because how many meme and low effort inside jokes ones have to wade through before finding genuinely great and useful contents.
I'm going to press X to doubt.

Reddit is infuriatingly sticky. Every time I land on a post from 10+ years ago (like this one [0] for example), I go to the author's profile page. Almost inevitably, they've written a comment within the last week. This is a remarkable property for a social website to have, and it's not one that I see exhibited in other places, like StackOverflow or ancient vBulletin forums.

I'd like to think that this is finally Reddit's "Digg moment," but I am just not convinced. The boycott was over in 48 hours and everything is back to normal, but people are just complaining more. Heck, the commenter I linked to from 11 years ago also commented two hours ago, unsurprisingly, complaining about the API changes.

As offensive as Steve Huffman has been throughout this saga, he doesn't seem to be wrong. Reddit could shoot a third party app on Fifth Avenue and people would still use it...

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/rx9u9/til_gr...

Eh I think this will fundamentally change the site, almost like the inverse of the Digg exodus. A lot of us old school users are angry and done. The newer users that haven’t experienced a different social cycle of Reddit are the one are the ones upset that the mods are revolting. Over the last month, the quality of the front page has significantly dropped, and the remaining subs were heavily biased towards the ones that most recently rose to prominence (and have the most repeated / bland takes in the comments).

I’m not going to claim that Reddit was a bastion of intellectualism back in the day, but the mean effort put into comments on the main subs has deteriorated over time and today might very well mark a discontinuity in that

I have (had) a 9 year old Reddit account, that I unironically grew up with. I created it when I was 12 (sue me COPPA) to comment on a Cookie Clicker subreddit. I remember my cakeday, May 28, 2014.

It really was a lifestyle app. The account had comments on all the games I played as a teenager, fitness and university subreddits, random hobbies I picked up for a few months, basically every single one of my interests for the past decade. I had a NSFW burner that received frequent use. I have to say, you're pretty accurate about how I was basically active and commenting once or more a week for the majority of my conscious life. I started using the RiF app on a god awful 2010 phone when I created my account, and have used Sync since probably 2016.

I blanked then wiped all of my comments and then deleted my account two weeks ago. To be truthful, Reddit had a much different feel already, but nothing can stay constant for that long. It was already frustrating me that (my perceived) quality of discussion on the site has steadily become dumber and any mainstream news or political sub is astroturfed to hell (presumably by the Russians). I started seeing the emoji or "lol who cares" in response to perfectly normal comments. The East Palestine derailment frenzy was what made me realize that the website is definitely attacked by coordinated actors. I spent the last few months on the site browsing /r/neoliberal not because I necessarily agreed with the tenets of the ideology, but because it was one of the few reasonable political subs left, and /r/CredibleDefence for broadly pro-West but reasonable takes on the war.

I slowly realized that I was reading empty content. Much of my time on the site was seeing a clearly stupid, if not false comment, and realizing that the effort I would put in debunking or arguing was going to reach two or three eyeballs. Essentially, much of Reddit is the one eyed preaching to the blind. I frequently typed up long comments (much like this one) for an hour or so, and returned to maybe 4-5 upvotes, since the post had already peaked in popularity. I had a few long posts in /r/summonerschool , a League of Legends advice subreddit that were probably 10x the detail of any other comment advice and took me an hour to watch their gameplay and give specific comments.

In short, I felt I was trying to suck shit water from an Olympic sized pool through a lifestraw and hoping it would clean it up. The 3rd party app ban was a huge fucking slap to my face. Call me arrogant, but I believe I contributed more than my fair share to the running of Reddit by creating high quality discourse on the website. And in return? I get slapped with a shit UI and advertisements up my ass through the official app. And spez's response showed a complete lack of any attention to the website, to any concerns to the community that is most of the value proposition of their site. Their claims to be looking for profit now are transparent as fuck when you remember all their failed, clearly unmonetizable crap they've put dev hours and low interest money on in the past few years (NFTs, the other crypto crap, whatever RPAN was supposed to be). Coast by on institutional inertia while you piss away money, let the website decline in quality, and then aggressively try to monetize from the most loyal users (the decade long user who uses a third party app)? No thanks.

So yeah, I blew up my account. To be honest, I am having some withdrawal symptoms and am trying hard not to relapse, but I see it as the only moral route to proceed. The internet is broadly really quite bad. Twitter is tolerable but has similar ethical issues and quality depends very much on topic. I am getting into Substack, but that is ultimately a newsletter publisher and not a discussion forum. Any non-reddit result on Google is unusable. Maybe the internet will agree on a replacement. Maybe it keeps on spiralling down the enshittification drain. For now, HackerNews occupies the space on my phone's home screen that ...

Three problems with your theory:

1. Deleted users aren't going to pop up as much

2. It's going to be highly dependent on your search history. I'm sure more technically minded people will be around more often than results found on news subs or some more specific hobbies.

3. Commenting last week doesn't mean they are a regular commenter. Many of those people IME comment much less frequently later on. Maybe from a daily commenter to a weekly or monthly one. They are around, but not as active.

>As offensive as Steve Huffman has been throughout this saga, he doesn't seem to be wrong. Reddit could shoot a third party app on Fifth Avenue and people would still use it...

On a macro level, sure. I think anyone hoping for a sudden implosion was dreaming. But many are talking long term, a death by a million papercuts. There will be no one reason reddit dies.

Also, sample of one: I did in fact leave years ago. Still lurked w/o an account, but these actions caused me to try and replace nearly every community I have.

The main hole atm is a steady stream of gaming discussions. So i unfortunately may spend some 15 minutes browsing some niche gaming subs for certain news.

I remember seeing reddit on my coworker’s screen in 2010. The front page of the internet? Isn’t that slashdot… Oh but its for everything? Interesting!
Newsgroups > Yahoo Clubs > Yahoo Groups > Digg > Reddit > the next great "online community" good enough that you come to rely on it, which of course means enturdification is right around the corner, sure as turds.
Newsgroups > Yahoo Clubs > Yahoo Groups > Digg > Reddit

I recognise that journey!

Slashdot > Digg > Reddit > Hacker News
similar journey, but on two parallel paths

for tech/science discussions: slashdot > HN for entertainment: rss > reddit > ? (help)

I joined my senior year of HS. My original account is 17 years old this year. I'll probably just continue to use old.reddit.com for a few niche time wasters on desktop, but the decline in quality is already apparent.

It's a damn fucking shame.

Narwhal has found a way to make it work, will be 2-7 a month. The pitchforks are up but I love Reddit as a community so I’m happy we have something.
As a Reddit user I'm a bit puzzled by these death or Reddit posts. I use Reddit by going to reddit.com with the old settings and it works just the same. Does the death of some third party app really matter? It would be like saying HN is gone because some 3rd party app on it that I've never heard of is gone. Honestly a bit puzzled.
For some people access on their phones is important. Old reddit www is bad for that, New reddit is much worse. And Apollo was an extremely well thought out app, there's certain niceness in interacting with such products during your lazy moments.
Reddit was great for aimless scrolling, and its most recent incarnation was as close you could get to TikTok while still having text posts. Which meant that it got used the most while in the bathroom or while stuck somewhere - both phone uses.

I refuse to use the official app, and the new site crashes safari in the iOS beta, so Reddit is now dead to me. I’ve dropped by a couple of times but since the changes and blackout all of the good subs I follow are empty/dead. They lost me as a user.

The third party apps supported two important functions that the official Reddit app sucks at:

1) Reading assistance for people with sight impairment. Reddit has granted a pass for some apps on this basis though.

2) Moderation and Modmail. For people on the move, or, for example, where you're in front of a business PC or laptop all day, with Web restrictions or personal use policies. The mobile apps were extremely useful for moderation.

I did use the Boost app, but have moved to the official Reddit one for mod work; it's buggy and prone to erroring when trying to complete an action so you have to keep repeating things to make them 'stick'.

This is why the mods are up in arms because it's hard work at the best of times.

> Reddit has granted a pass for some apps on this basis though.

But with two major caveats. This is only for non-profit apps, which excludes almost all of them. For Android there is only RedReader now and for iOS there are Luna and Dystopia left.

And still without any NSFW content.

I don't quite know how to put my finger on it, but in my mind Reddit died a couple of years ago. The site was still there, there was still content, but the soul seemed to have gone out of the place.
If you want to feel the equivalent impact, try browsing old.reddit on a mobile device. They have actively bastardized and impeded readability in order to force people to the app. Also, NSFW is a entire feat to try and get loaded on a phone. Sometimes it just doesn't even give you an age prompt.

And to be honest, I think old.reddit is also on its way out. It's inevitable. So we're going to experience this shit storm all over again.

I have always used old.reddit on my phone. I use no other reddit client. Just checked it right now and it looks the same as always. If old.reddit.com goes, I'll definitely go too.

I support the protests so I'm trying to use reddit less for news and stuff. But for certain needs I'd scour forums for, since those forums no longer exist, I kind of need to check reddit for some stuff. Things related to my health and such.

My only note: state the year (and month if possible) in the first paragraph of a story like this.

It helps for readers now, and archaeologists later!

Joined reddit the second half of my freshman year of university in early 2008, after hearing about it from an XKCD comic on 4chan. It was during the democrat primaries (Hillary vs Obama) and between that and the science articles I was hooked.

It was not the only website of its kind, but it was the fastest for news updates and also had some content on other sites like it didn't (such as slashdot, which had the tech and science stuff but not much else). I would repost stuff to FB and managed to garner a decent amount of clout that way. It went along like that for some years but eventually reddit 'hit mainstream' and the content I reposted didn't get the same traction. At that time I remember thinking reddit wasn't "underground" anymore. I recall that thought occurring in 2012.

But that still didn't stop me from using it, except for a couple breaks it was my primary source of info and discussion and debate for many years, even to this day.

However I'm at a point though where I feel like I need to divorce myself from social media entirely (perhaps even HN). The 'debates' / discussions / etc feel as though they have run their course for me. It's like groundhog day where I feel like I've had the same interactions 1000 times over to the extent where I don't feel like it's worth the effort.

But at the same time living without social media makes my world feel much smaller. I only talk to a handful of people, my friend group has dwindled significantly, and adding new folks has become really difficult, even with sparse usage. I feel like I was so dependent on social media for so long to keep in touch with people that, now living without it, I have practically no social connections.

This has been exacerbated by my decision to live a sober life, free of any and all mind altering substances. Going out to a bar or music night loses most of its appeal without alcohol involved. Likewise for gaming without smoking. Between all this and no social media, my life has become really... Well, boring I guess. spend my days reading books, and going to the gym. It's more boring than it sounds. No social media also means no gigs and that's a bummer, may have to start looking for steady employment.

Anyway to stay on topic, I don't know what a world looks like without these things that have taken up so much of my life in the last 15+ years. I'm just trying to take it one day at a time. I want to develop other hobbies but thus far the motivation I previously leveraged from caffeinated beverages has dried up as well. So I guess I can just wait and see, and try to remain optimistic.

I'm surprised that TikTok, YouTube, and Meta (via Facebook? Instagram? something new?) aren't trying harder to welcome exiles from Reddit and Twitter.
To most people outside of this bubble, nothing about Reddit has recently changed. At all.

Reports of Reddit’s death have been greatly exaggerated.

By chance are you into sim racing? It’s just that your first paragraph is exactly my Reddit story, so maybe we have similar hobbies… haha.
Is there a way to change some settings or something to make the official reddit app look more like RIF?
The app? No, there's no such way to control that. Your best bet is CSS configurations on the website but it'll be a pale imitation.
This is sad, but the silver lining is that the official app is horrible enough that it will more or less force me to go cold turkey on breaking my Reddit addiction.
I am still somewhat shocked that they went through with this.

I built a Reddit API[1] alternative as a form of protest, they responded by blocking my personal Reddit account. Very sad what Reddit has become.

1 - https://api.reddiw.com

Will you release the code for this?
I think so. Though it’s not nearly as sophisticated as you might think.

Are you interested in hosting an instance of it?

What will they do if many people do. Make the site inaccessible without signing in?
Even LinkedIn has not gone quite this far, usually the first page is viewable without logging in.
Having an equivalent of Nitter and Invidious would be amazing! I would love to host an instance of this API, you should publish your code!

Apps like RedReader will be impossible to modify and use in a libre manner without a replacement API implementation like this.

Like a lot of news today, it’s simultaneously shocking and not surprising. It’s tough to keep a positive attitude. Every week it seem like things that, against the odds turned out to be good, are being deliberately torn down so that a few rich people can get slightly richer. Greed is killing everything nice, and nobody has both the power and willingness to stop it.
More and more I find myself on the side that greed and those who egregiously practice it, need to be excised from humanity with extreme prejudice. Greed should be a short-lived terminal illness.
It's a completely different approach, but maybe you can do web view shenanigans to create an API bridge on devices.
Reddit will be able detect that easily.
Why work around it? If they want to kill their service, I'd rather watch it happen with a smile than desperately try to save them.
Because reddit is a social phenomenon, not a technological one.
It's both and the technological element is laughably easy to recreate. The social element takes time but Reddit never had any meaningful control over that anyway.
They banned your personal account?!

Do you have the ability to edit or access your old comments? Is it a shadowban, read-only, or a full block?

They “permanently suspended” it. It appears I have read-only access to my comments/subreddits but cannot comment/upvote/access my subreddits moderator tools.
I tried Apollo early on and it was a bit too bare-bones.

After all the news, I gave it another whirl for the past month and it’s very nice. After previously using the official app, it was a breath of fresh air to see a native video player, native share sheets, and so much more. Super nice, useful details like image counts on galleries. Such a shame that Reddit’s huge team is actively working in the opposite direction.

Amazing work, Christian. Really unfortunate that Reddit has gone in this direction and truly shameful and disgusting how they’ve handled it.

There are so many small details that make Apollo such a well designed app. I definitely started to feel the UI could use an update / polish recently, but man, the UX was unreal.

Assorted highlights:

- Share post / comment as image. When sharing comment as image, you could specify how many parent comments to include in the image as well. Super useful. - The theme change shortcut (more common now, but I think apollo was one of the first apps I noticed it in) - you could change subreddit with one tap. Narwhal doesn’t have this and it’s so annoying. - unreal in-app media playback (including YouTube) - customizable swipe gestures - great comment editor - content filters - ability to hide subreddits in just a couple of taps - saved item categories

I’m done with Reddit on mobile devices. I’m actually quite happy to have a good reason to stop using Reddit, but I’m sad that such a well-designed app has just disappeared.

Probably would have been interesting to relaunch the Apollo with its own backend as a direct competitor to Reddit. I think one simple push notification would've pulled millions of the most active users over to the new service
Hardly simple.

Who recreates all subreddits? Re-establishes all the mods? Re-subscribes all the users? And all the while on a brand-new implementation that has to immediately scale to millions of users flawlessly.

That's a lot of work.

That would have required negotiating image hosting, having a significant amount of server power and storage space, dealing with laws about who can see what, and active moderation until volunteers can be found to moderate the content. Having someone to deal with DMCA requests and age verification laws.

If it wasn't a subscription service (that had to front load a lot of its costs), it also involves getting advertisers for people who are demonstrably hostile to advertisements on board.

This requires hiring more than a few people and investing a bit into the infrastructure needed. It isn't just "hey, gonna spin up a server that is API compatible with reddit and switch everyone over."

So, are we just pretending like reddit has any of that when it started out?
It was a single page link farm with votes that competed with Digg in a much simpler regulatory time.

https://web.archive.org/web/20051124035428/http://reddit.com... (edit: upon reflection, I am nostalgic for the time when that the top link there was to "The Truth About Web 2.0" at paulgraham.com shared by a user named AaronSw)

If you were to try to build something today that competed with Reddit and wasn't just a "here's a bunch of links - vote on what you like (without even comments)", it would take quite a bit more investment.

If you were to build reddit c. 2005 you wouldn't even need a device local app.

Apollo is not competing with Reddit when it started out but Reddit today.
Apollo had just over ONE million users. Only 540k of whom were active. And significantly less that paid the fee needed to be able to post.

And most active according to whom? People keep saying Reddit is committing suicide. Do y'all truly believe that most of Reddit useful content was created on mobile? In Apollo? The app that forced you to pay if you wanted to submit content to Reddit?

Get real.

I suspect that those who bothered to go through the effort of downloading a third party app were also power users who most likely also contributed a lot more content than other users. How many content creators did Reddit lose by killing these third party apps?

Reddit doesn’t produce content of their own. If content creators and moderators took away their effort, Reddit would die.

> How many content creators did Reddit lose by killing these third party apps?

Thats a good question. Are there any stats to show that Apollo users were significant in terms of content creation? Or that any small subset of users are significant (besides mods)?

If all the rejected apps banded together onto one shared backend, they would have more people than any of the new movers people have scattered to.
Probably. But its a prisoner dilemma and part of the reason apps shut down was because they lacked the time to react. There's no way they'd have an alternative ready "in time" even if we all agreed on an alternative and made a big push for it.

And "all agreeing" on the internet is a herculean task to begin with. Some want federation, some want centralization. Some want memes and others want serious discussion. Some don't even want to leave reddit period.

all of the third party apps sucked in terms of usage, hence why reddit was willing to destroy them
>Do y'all truly believe that most of Reddit useful content was created on mobile?

These days where 50% or reddit traffic is on Mobile? Yes.

>In Apollo?

No.

This happens to coincide with the date that a new law (singed May 12th) goes into effect in Virginia requiring commercial entities that publish or distribute "material harmful to minors" to verify the age of the users. Commercial entities violating that may suffer civil penalties.

https://legiscan.com/VA/text/SB1515/2023

I don’t know law and am bad at technology too but I’m wondering if there is ways companies can get around these kinds of laws through a combination of geofencing, blocking IPs, and displaying messages that the service isn’t available in a particular state/country. I understand that it might make economic sense but just wondering if showing a certain amount of due diligence helps absolve them legally.
That's exactly what some of them do.

Pornhub blocks access in Virginia over new age verification law - https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/pornhub-blocks-acces...

Part of the challenge with this one is it does that "civil right of action" where it's not the state suing the entity but private citizens. That makes it more difficult for the company to defend against it.

Though this gets into a "how much effort are you going to put into it" and "how much control do you have over the ways the content is distributed?"

This also is about liability for the backend service - not the ISPs or other providers (3rd party apps are in a gray zone as to if it is Reddit or the 3rd party app that would be liable for showing such content... and my crystal ball says it would probably end up being that Reddit would be solely liable).

Sounds coincidental. It doesn't have anything to do with pricing and NSFW content is still flowing to the remaining clients (as of right now). Reddit has never mentioned that law either as far as I know.
> metaphorical death of all the best parts (IMO) of the internet: open-source, creativity, entrepreneurial spirit.

That's a weird connection to make. Reddit isn't be-all-end-all of open source (given that it or most of the major apps were never open source anyway)