Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

62 points by __jambo ↗ HN
I have about 3 Yoe webdev/+physics/mech eng degree. Worked a few contracts then my own Saas thing, now pretty burned out. Don't really need funding or a team, just a bit of time.

Was thinking to just to dumb manual labour while I recover/finish my product. I don't think I can hack a 3 month job hunt for a "legit" job and I feel like taking tech contracts will also create a lot of mental overhead since I'm in the headspace for my own work right now.

Maybe tutoring would be better than Ubereats gig work, but honestly a lot of software contracts seem to be turned into BS gig work and at least with manual labour you are doing something real.

Looking for validation and ideas.

79 comments

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Can still take contract jobs focusing on something you know very well, doesn't pose that much of a burden -- no learning involved, less stress.
The unemployment rate is at a multi-decade low, so there’s never been a better time find a random job in an non-software area.

If it were me, I’d go work as a barista in San Francisco for 3 months and master my latte arts skills, while also getting exposed to the tech scene out there.

I am not a freelancer, so you can stop reading if you want. But I'd like to validate your burnout, which is very real.

It's also incredibly refreshing to do something totally different. I would choose wisely, though. Not really the same situation, but I went and became a naturalist guide at a nature preserve between my undergrad computer science degree and my Ph.D. Working outside not only totally refreshed me but gave me much-needed perspective. I think something similar can be said for pouring beers or delivering food.

I would recommend doing Mechanical Turk work: https://www.mturk.com/.

It'll give you ideas for your next gig as well.

Why would you recommend it??? It's sitting doing mindless tedious annoying mouseclicky work and kinda stressful to do enough and get the right jobs, and pays actual peanuts. I wouldn't recommend this as a curative to OP's issue at all.
If you're burnt, the best thing to do to fix that is take time off. Try walking (1hr/day) with out your phone and just disconnect to see if that helps immediately. Try to spend more time outside or in nature if possible to help you decompress and recover faster.
Strongly second this -- disconnecting from tech and stressors has been helpful for me in the past. Lots of walking, reading physical books, and just going places and thinking (I'm partial to a nice waterfront but your mileage may vary)
How low can you get your expenses? What’s your savings?

Doing gig work might be fine if it helps you survive long enough. If you’re unwilling to get your expenses low enough though, then that’s not even on the table.

Always plan for more time than you need. If you need three months, make sure you have an extra six of padding, if you can. You may need it if forced into the job search or something unexpected happens.

You need a vacation.

Do you have some money saved up? If so, just take a vacation.

Vacations are important. Even just a week can sometimes give you a very healthy reset. Of course I don't mean just a week off, but getting out of the house, travelling somewhere nice and just enjoying seeing new places. If it has to be cheap: go camping.
Yes, just make sure to completely remove yourself from work (and other chores).

If you bring your laptop with you and keep doing stuff in it, it doesn't count.

When I was burned out I dedicated myself to learning something completely outside of my current context. I plan on doing this regularly now, maybe every 2-3 years. On my docket is:

- Woodworking

- Cooking - especially baking, since it can be extremely challenging to create the 'perfect' baguette or croissant

- Gardening

- Writing a novel

etc.

Best solution for burnout IMO is to completely refresh your mind with something that is challenging but low-stress.

Not sure woodworking is "low-stress", though I guess it depends on what exactly you plan on making.

I have had a number of failures at all phases of projects. One was 20 hours of work and a grand in materials that I were totally junk (I had to pay more to drop it off at the dump). One was fairly low material cost, but ~40 hours in it was ruined.

Now I make duplicates in case of failures. My last project I got material for 10, was able to actually get 7 blanks due to cracks and knots, 5 didn't get tear out so bad they were worthless, and 4 at the end after a final gluing mistake. One for me, and two that were gifts for friends. One spare, out of materials for 10.

I get anxiety about starting new projects because I worry about how much material to get to account for my mistakes.

> I have had a number of failures at all phases of projects.

I have a life philosophy about this: failure is the path to success (I've never learned anything by being right).

It can be hard to maintain the mindset, but it's actually true -- we learn from our mistakes, so nothing is a failure as long as a lesson was derived from it.

If you can maintain that mindset, it takes a lot of the stress out of things!

In general I agree and I've preached the same. But the moment when you're holding the result of a month of weekends in your hands and you have to drop it in the trash can is tough.
Absolutely. That's what makes it hard. It feels like wasted time and effort.

I don't do woodworking, but I do fairly complicated electronics projects as a hobby, and a similar effect happens. I made a special display case where I put those failed projects on display, next to the final successful one. It reminds me that the failed example was just a stage in development and makes me feel better.

I wish I had the space for that with some of my projects. The expensive one was a desk with walnut, maple and resin. The resin cracked and discolored. The lesson was that when they say you can pour it 2 inches thick, you have to remember that they're liars, and to use a different brand and pour in 1/4 inch layers.

The final product was epic, and I use it every day, but the failed desk was too big to keep.

I can suggest pottery.In that case you are dropping it[1] every five minutes, so you get used to it :)

[1] recyclable as long as it is not fired.

Nobody is going to lose their job, die, or start a war because of our bad woodworking projects ;-)
Yep. For me it was flying gliders. Most important things I think are that the activity is challenging, involves learning, and does not involve the use of a computer.
I'll bet you there'll be RNAV approaches for gliders in a decade or two ;)
I've been learning the ropes with music production here.

It has come about due to two driving forces; one that I've been on-and-off with learning guitar for years and wanted to record myself and play over backing tracks; the other being that my daughter took a shine to playing piano and I want to improve myself there so I can better help her learn. I've accidentally fallen in love with all of it.

I've ended up looking in to development of audio plugins for DAWs now. The whole thing is quite a rabbit hole...

Writing a novel is far from low-stress, unless you don't mind writing absolute garbage. The term "tortured artist" exists for a reason.
I have a few thoughts:

1) Can you afford to live off a manual labor job? If so, that might be a good approach since you can work that manual labor job and still have mental energy afterwards to work on your SaaS. It's much harder doing mental tech work after already doing mentally taxing work at your job.

2) If you do contracting, does it have to be full time? Presumably you could make more money doing tech contracting than a manual labor job, so if you could work 10-20 hours a week contracting, you'd still have time left for your SaaS.

3) Regardless of your approach to earning money, you need to set aside time for self-care. You need to be sleeping, relaxing, socializing, and sometimes relaxing by doing nothing. It might seem like time not dedicated to your work, but you need to work in a sustainable way as you're finding out.

> you can work that manual labor job and still have mental energy afterwards to work on your SaaS. It's much harder doing mental tech work after already doing mentally taxing work at your job.

this is exactly what I was thinking. Thank for the validation, I'm glad someone else has this experience. Also I do a lot of debugging subconsciously, so taking other tech work is just a lot.

Why don't you go and volunteer at something physical in SE Asia? Not too expensive and cheap to live there. Could be a good change of scene. I'm also thinking of physical work as a curative to sitting and thinking - it's not the be all and end all. Neither is making money.
A friend of mine quit his PhD work to work as a shop security guard for a couple of years. It was because of his serious RSI rather than burnout, but stepping out of the software world to do something completely different is absolutely an option.

Although my very limited knowledge of burnout is that you shouldn't work at all. I don't know. You should probably talk to your doctor or therapist.

I’d say take a long enough vacation (not just a week) to re-consider yourself if you can afford to do so. It’s risky to make decisions about your life when you’re burnt out.
Take a vacation. Get outside into nature, whatever takes your fancy. Mountain, coast, woods, wildness. Do something with animals. Start a new hobby. Buy a telescope. Build an aquarium.
Part of the reason contractor hourlies are so high is that you’re not meant to bill 2100 hours a year. Aim for north of 1500 and south of 1900.

Burnout on contracting gigs was always a problem for me because W2 contracting does tend to expect 2000 hours a year. But I hate job hunting so I steered clear of 6 month engagements.

What does W2 mean? I have seen it twice in this thread now.
Regular payroll employment, as opposed to independent contractor status. Its from the tax form on which wages from that kind of employment are reported.
It also usually means you’re using an agency. Most people hire contractors 1099, which in contrast to W2, you’re responsible for most of the legwork of tax collection and also self employment taxes.
The best dev I ever knew developed a serious case of burnout. He went to truck-driving school and drove long-haul trucks for a couple of years. He then came back to software development cured of his burnout.

Not saying that you should drive trucks, but I think doing something else -- something completely unrelated to dev work -- might be of help.

I feel like taking a job where people take meth to drive for 3 days without sleep is probably the weirdest way to overcome JavaScript fatigue.
You should probably brush up on modern trucking regulations that have been in place for at least 20 years.
That in no way resembles his work experience. He did tell me a few interesting things, though. He was really surprised how many software devs he met who were driving the big rigs. It seems to be a thing.

Another was how many skills overlap the two fields. Driving the big rig is an exercise in resource management and planning, so you can do things like ensure that by the time you need more fuel, you're in a place where the fuel costs are lower.

Sorry, I made my comment in jest. I guess it didn’t land well.

Yeah, I can see the resource planning overlaps. I’m glad it worked out for your friend!

Ah, that went right over my head.

There is one stereotype that he confirmed, though: it's common for drivers to keep two sets of driving logs, one real and one doctored, in order to be able to drive longer at a time than is legally allowed without getting caught.

This was quite a number of years ago, though. It's entirely possible that GPS is used to mitigate this these days. I don't know.

There was a rather weird episode in British political history just after the first wave of COVID lockdowns. The performance arts, limited to outdoor events, were struggling, leading to jokes mocking the government's advice for these performers to 'upskill' as computer programmers. Simultaneously, the lack of temporary residents from other EU countries (who comprise the majority of truck/lorry drivers) due to Brexit meant that computer programmers were joking about 'upskilling' to become drivers with double a programmer's salary!
There are many things that can reduce your burnout, if you are willing to do:

1. Read some philosophy (Greek, Indian, Buddhist, whatever) 2. Spend good time with your family, especially your parents 3. Go for hiking 4. Do meditation (on self) 5. Call your childhood friends 6. Try cooking new dishes (and fail, it is fun) 7. Read physical books

I’ve been doing freelance for the past 4-5 years. The first few years I focused on building a bit of runway, and now I’ve reduced the amount of time I’m available for my clients.

I typically take about 10-12 weeks off every year. Today I just got back to working after a 5 week holiday. For the past 6 months before that, I only worked about half time for clients as I was working on one of my own products.

Treat your own project as a client. Keep track of how much time you spend (not to bill yourself, but to keep an eye on whether what you’re doing is profitable), and work during your regular work hours. Keep evenings and weekends for family and hobbies.

Depending on location right now is the perfect time to get a seasonal farming job.

Your brain needs something other than screens for a while.

The brain capacity thing is real: context switching destroys your productivity and you can’t use your whole brain for your project if you’re doing that.

I am in a very similar situation. Been freelancing for 6 years, done my own saas thing which is profitable but needs more time to grow. Seriously burned out, like to the max.

I just took on a full time w2 salary position at a mid stage startup. Salary isn’t incredible, but it’s predicable and is allowing me to establish a work life balance. I plan to do this for a couple of years at least to rest my nervous system and rebuild my savings.

There’s no wrong answer - do whatever will bring back your sanity (but don’t go broke doing it, that’s just more stressful!)

Just find one or two temp agencies in your area - they’ll probably get you placed into the type of gig you want quickly, and there will be no expectation for long term commitment. Can’t hurt to try.

At one point I had a 3 month break between research gigs, and just got a temp job moving boxes around a factory. Long hours and bad pay but it was a nice change of pace for a bit.

Everyone saying, take a vacation, but most people can’t easily afford that. Can you risk it when you might go back, hole in your bank account, the burnout possibly not cured?

But a part time job, for a year or two, doing non software work? Especially something social and physical? That might be viable, if you can get your expenses down enough. But most jobs outside software pay so badly, you won’t be able to afford rent or proper food…

If you don't have a rental agreement in place, then the costs for travel is largely from flight travel. And many places locally are easy to fly for just several hundred $. If you have more of a budget, you can travel overseas in relatively cheap economic countries. It can be done if you plan accordingly within a budget.

Also helps if you are solo, and can cook. And I also think it's a great energy recharger and helped me when I was burnt out.

Nearly all work (contract or not) is something that somebody would rather pay you to do, than do themselves. Well run software companies with tidy, well architected software need far fewer devs than the ones with nasty bloat and a lot of legacy problems, so that's why most of the jobs are with the latter. The reality is that work is only occasionally fun, and usually something you would not do if you didn't want the money. This is true in software, or anything else.

Having said that, it also shouldn't be something you hate. If you hate it, then it is time to do something else, at least for a while. Also, who knows, taking a manual labor job for a while might give you ideas for how software could improve the situation (just a possibility).

>Well run software companies with tidy, well architected software need far fewer devs than the ones with nasty bloat and a lot of legacy problems

this is a good point I can relate with!

Burnout advice: try to sleep 10+ hours a night for some time.
That's not something most adults can simply do. I often wake up after 7-7.5 hrs and manage to sleep for slightly longer only when severely exhausted or sleep deprived. The rare nights I sleep longer, I interestingly feel more energetic the next day
Mental health is your biggest asset, and without it, you can't function in life let alone job. Taking care of that is anyone's number one priority. Took a career break last year, and it was one of the best decisions I made.

It's important to also have a plan so you know at least roughly how long you can have your break for ($ wise), and what you will do in that time. I've come back to work feeling much better and knowing what/how I want my career to look like/unfold. Job hunting is hard especially now, but clearing your mind of burnout is important to build your resilience and confidence in your skills and conveying that in interviews.

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