What makes you think it's based on data, and not just an opinion based on observation?
Alternatively, what's wrong with opinions based on observation? This one sounds plausible to me, though I probably wouldn't have worded it quite so harshly. It seems pretty obviously true of lots of things we like about each other. We don't want them to figure so strongly in our attraction, but they do.
6’1” and white with a degree. (P sure I’m average, could be ugly though.) It’s not a magic bullet. More money would definitely make it easier to wine and dine though.
I’m similar with the addition of advanced degrees and my friends have told me in an unsolicited way that I have fairly high emotional intelligence as well. I’ve always struggled with dating, especially with dating apps — lots of first dates that go nowhere.
I’ve wondered if it’s a function of the medium. When I meet a stranger in person I go into a more “business mode” that is inoffensive but also boring and not reflective of my personality. However, I don’t know where else I’d meet people. It’s especially hard since I just moved to a new city and only know a friend from high school here.
Really thought this was going to be about bipartite graph matching algorithms, which are useful and interesting, whereas this article boils down to "5s should just date 5s"
I think you are being unfair, this article is I think informative and well sourced. I can think of quite a few acquaintances that would probably benefit from reading it.
You're probably just unaware of what constitutes status in this context. This is a well studied phenomenon, and it makes sense from a biological perspective.
It's not that difficult. For each question hold all other variables constant. If voting, which man does a woman prefer to date: 1. A rich man, a poor man. 2. A handsome man, an ugly man. 3. A tall man, a short man. 4. A strong man, a weak man. 5. A confident man, an unconfident man. 6. An assertive man, a passive man. Etc. The more of the attractive traits, the higher status
Well that was a bit of a doomy article, though I find myself agreeing with the general throughline. Dating's gotten pretty messed up and realistically speaking that's unlikely to change going forward.
The reason I characterize the article as "doomy" is because it implies some very terrible things will happen as a result:
> "A society with too many isolated men and no war to send them to is a scary situation. [...] they will decay your country from the inside."
Far be it from me to suggest that endemic loneliness and population decline are positive developments, but... will society really decay from the inside-out as a direct result? I'll cop to being one of those men which the article characterizes as having "given up" -- a sub-yearly sex haver, a porn watcher, and an enjoyer of the video games -- but I'm no closer to blighting civilized society because of it.
Cards on the table, that's probably thanks to various tailwinds in my own personal life: a fulfilling job, a good paycheck, and a modest yet supportive network of friends and family whom I love dearly. There're plenty of guys (and girls) out there with none of those things and no sex life to top it off. Life sucks for them in general and that is probably the stronger (and more actionable!) source of this malaise creeping over general society which many of us are feeling.
There's a lot of effects that this would have on society but I think one of them would be that more partner-less men that are "satisfied", by that I mean not willing to do things that "decay your country" from the inside like violence and rape due to sexual frustration (which is what I believe the author is implying). The increasing prevalence of porn probably also contributes. Further evidence is that violent and property crime have plummeted over the last few decades: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/11/20/facts-abo...
"Decay" of the country might come in other forms though. Lower testosterone also increases risk of depression, which is well known to be on the rise.
These articles about the dating pool are entertaining, but they don't matter when the fertility of entire generations is expiring because of viral ideas that are against the continuence of life. I'm seeing an old flame age out of fertility right now, and that's a hard stage of life. I often wonder, what wasn't anyone willing to do, and what was anyone holding out for?
> Women only date across and up status hierarchies, whereas men date across and down.
Yeah, citation needed. I see this everywhere online, often used as a rhetorical device to blame toxic dating culture on irrational female behavior vs reasonable men willing to settle. But I don't think this claim even shakes out in the surveys. I remember having this conversation with a friend, and IIRC we found an okcupid study showing that both genders are generally hypergamous. Dating app dynamics make it so men act slightly less hypergamously than women, but both men and women ultimately try to date up and shoot for the top 20% if they can. People don't want to settle. Anecdotal data point: me - as a man, I still definitely have standards.
Edit: yeah in fact okcupid found basically the opposite to be true https://archive.ph/2017.01.21-154729/https://blog.okcupid.co... "As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable."
Its not “irrational female” vs “reasonable men”. It was described well in the article. Its that women have historically needed to date higher status men to guarantee their life for their children. The sperm is cheap vs eggs are expensive that the author mentioned. Its not a conscious decision its the dynamics that human beings have been playing out for centuries and it is exacerbated but the order of magnitudes higher dating pool that apps provide (just as author mentions)
Problems with modern dating have worsened from various perspectives::
- Social media platforms, such as Instagram and TikTok, have significantly influenced dating expectations. They have set high standards that women often use to choose their partners. A few years ago, Instagram was the primary influencer, but now it’s TikTok. This influence ranges from physical appearance, where men on TikTok even went to the extent of breaking their jaws to achieve a certain look, demonstrating the power of peer pressure, to lifestyle expectations, for instance, college girls often expect their potential partners to regularly take them out for dinner and parties. Working women might expect men to earn a substantial income, around 300k or 500k a year, and also provide travel, gifts, etc. (all of these have videos of women demanding them you can look then up), There’s also an expectation for men to conform to a woman’s lifestyle and mentality. If he doesn't, she can easily find another partner on a whim. Therefore, as a man, you are expected to have a good job, earn a substantial income, own a car, a house, maintain good looks and fitness, be outgoing, mentally healthy, and cover expenses such as dinners and shopping. On the other hand, a woman is often just expected to be slightly above average looking.
- Dating apps have significantly altered the landscape of dating, often hindering the potential for forming long-term relationships or settling down. These apps are designed with algorithms that encourage continuous usage and even persuade users to purchase premium services. For women, it often becomes akin to window shopping, creating an illusion of choice, the more options there are, the harder it becomes to make a choice. Many users (mostly women) tend to judge someone’s entire personality based on poorly taken photos or inadequately written descriptions. A recent study found that many users are not actually on these platforms for dating (1). Women often seek male validation and attention, or even meet in real life for temporary gains like free dinners or smoking weed. Men, on the other hand, use these platforms as a means to show off their ‘matches’ like a trophies. The dating scene has become fundamentally corrupted at this point. Even if two individuals connect, they often find it easier to break up and look for other options since there are ‘plenty of fish in the sea’. They become addicted to the cycle of finding and trying new matches rather than focusing on settling down. The only entity that benefits from this situation is the business model of the dating app. It’s important to note that many of these dating apps are owned by a single company or a few companies.
- Women having the dominant choice in this "game": In many cultures where pre-arranged marriages are still prevalent, the dating scene tends to be less stressful and more robust, often leading to long-term relationships or marriages. For instance, Japan has returned to this practice due to the complexities of modern dating (2). In these pre-arranged setups, parents filter potential partners before introducing them to their offspring. This is a significant step because if you give the choice directly to a young person (or even an older one with a lack of experience), they are likely to make poor decisions. Their choices will be heavily influenced by certain ‘checklists’ that align with fantasies in their minds, such as looks that resemble a celebrity, an accent, someone look like a person from a TV show they like, or other superficial attributes that often result in so-called hypergamy.
Dating apps amplify this issue as judgments are mostly based on short descriptions or a few pictures. These apps are designed more for sexual interactions rather than finding the most compatible partners - a strategy to keep them in business. Consequently, women have evolved to fit into the social status quo. Women, being more vulnerable to threats such as murder and rape, have learned to adapt quickly to social norms for survival in a natural...
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 149 ms ] threadYes it does. They just won't admit to it in person because it is objectively so shallow and superficial.
Alternatively, what's wrong with opinions based on observation? This one sounds plausible to me, though I probably wouldn't have worded it quite so harshly. It seems pretty obviously true of lots of things we like about each other. We don't want them to figure so strongly in our attraction, but they do.
I’ve wondered if it’s a function of the medium. When I meet a stranger in person I go into a more “business mode” that is inoffensive but also boring and not reflective of my personality. However, I don’t know where else I’d meet people. It’s especially hard since I just moved to a new city and only know a friend from high school here.
Pretty bold, and false, statement
What constitutes "status" then? I interpreted it as "socio - economic" status
The reason I characterize the article as "doomy" is because it implies some very terrible things will happen as a result:
> "A society with too many isolated men and no war to send them to is a scary situation. [...] they will decay your country from the inside."
Far be it from me to suggest that endemic loneliness and population decline are positive developments, but... will society really decay from the inside-out as a direct result? I'll cop to being one of those men which the article characterizes as having "given up" -- a sub-yearly sex haver, a porn watcher, and an enjoyer of the video games -- but I'm no closer to blighting civilized society because of it.
Cards on the table, that's probably thanks to various tailwinds in my own personal life: a fulfilling job, a good paycheck, and a modest yet supportive network of friends and family whom I love dearly. There're plenty of guys (and girls) out there with none of those things and no sex life to top it off. Life sucks for them in general and that is probably the stronger (and more actionable!) source of this malaise creeping over general society which many of us are feeling.
There's a lot of effects that this would have on society but I think one of them would be that more partner-less men that are "satisfied", by that I mean not willing to do things that "decay your country" from the inside like violence and rape due to sexual frustration (which is what I believe the author is implying). The increasing prevalence of porn probably also contributes. Further evidence is that violent and property crime have plummeted over the last few decades: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/11/20/facts-abo...
"Decay" of the country might come in other forms though. Lower testosterone also increases risk of depression, which is well known to be on the rise.
Yeah, citation needed. I see this everywhere online, often used as a rhetorical device to blame toxic dating culture on irrational female behavior vs reasonable men willing to settle. But I don't think this claim even shakes out in the surveys. I remember having this conversation with a friend, and IIRC we found an okcupid study showing that both genders are generally hypergamous. Dating app dynamics make it so men act slightly less hypergamously than women, but both men and women ultimately try to date up and shoot for the top 20% if they can. People don't want to settle. Anecdotal data point: me - as a man, I still definitely have standards.
Edit: yeah in fact okcupid found basically the opposite to be true https://archive.ph/2017.01.21-154729/https://blog.okcupid.co... "As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable."
- Social media platforms, such as Instagram and TikTok, have significantly influenced dating expectations. They have set high standards that women often use to choose their partners. A few years ago, Instagram was the primary influencer, but now it’s TikTok. This influence ranges from physical appearance, where men on TikTok even went to the extent of breaking their jaws to achieve a certain look, demonstrating the power of peer pressure, to lifestyle expectations, for instance, college girls often expect their potential partners to regularly take them out for dinner and parties. Working women might expect men to earn a substantial income, around 300k or 500k a year, and also provide travel, gifts, etc. (all of these have videos of women demanding them you can look then up), There’s also an expectation for men to conform to a woman’s lifestyle and mentality. If he doesn't, she can easily find another partner on a whim. Therefore, as a man, you are expected to have a good job, earn a substantial income, own a car, a house, maintain good looks and fitness, be outgoing, mentally healthy, and cover expenses such as dinners and shopping. On the other hand, a woman is often just expected to be slightly above average looking.
- Dating apps have significantly altered the landscape of dating, often hindering the potential for forming long-term relationships or settling down. These apps are designed with algorithms that encourage continuous usage and even persuade users to purchase premium services. For women, it often becomes akin to window shopping, creating an illusion of choice, the more options there are, the harder it becomes to make a choice. Many users (mostly women) tend to judge someone’s entire personality based on poorly taken photos or inadequately written descriptions. A recent study found that many users are not actually on these platforms for dating (1). Women often seek male validation and attention, or even meet in real life for temporary gains like free dinners or smoking weed. Men, on the other hand, use these platforms as a means to show off their ‘matches’ like a trophies. The dating scene has become fundamentally corrupted at this point. Even if two individuals connect, they often find it easier to break up and look for other options since there are ‘plenty of fish in the sea’. They become addicted to the cycle of finding and trying new matches rather than focusing on settling down. The only entity that benefits from this situation is the business model of the dating app. It’s important to note that many of these dating apps are owned by a single company or a few companies.
- Women having the dominant choice in this "game": In many cultures where pre-arranged marriages are still prevalent, the dating scene tends to be less stressful and more robust, often leading to long-term relationships or marriages. For instance, Japan has returned to this practice due to the complexities of modern dating (2). In these pre-arranged setups, parents filter potential partners before introducing them to their offspring. This is a significant step because if you give the choice directly to a young person (or even an older one with a lack of experience), they are likely to make poor decisions. Their choices will be heavily influenced by certain ‘checklists’ that align with fantasies in their minds, such as looks that resemble a celebrity, an accent, someone look like a person from a TV show they like, or other superficial attributes that often result in so-called hypergamy. Dating apps amplify this issue as judgments are mostly based on short descriptions or a few pictures. These apps are designed more for sexual interactions rather than finding the most compatible partners - a strategy to keep them in business. Consequently, women have evolved to fit into the social status quo. Women, being more vulnerable to threats such as murder and rape, have learned to adapt quickly to social norms for survival in a natural...