The way Microsoft is pushing AI literally everywhere now feels reminiscent of circa 2001 when literally everything was branded '.NET'. Eventually they scaled it back, but it was complete overkill and diluted what the brand was supposed to represent.
What is Microsoft suppsed to represent? I'm not sure their brand has ever been anything more concrete over its total existence other than BASIC/MS-DOS in the beginning, a few long running products (Windows, Office, Xbox, Azure) and that it is involved with user-facing technology.
Microsoft represents a solid, stable, enterprise-friendly, conservative, but still somewhat “innovative” (whatever that means) company. Or at least that’s their brand. Given that a huge part of their value is their long term sales relationships, I’d say they are an extremely brand-reliant company.
You could argue the same for bic (the pen/lighter company). Solid, stable, enterprise friendly (100 packs!) and still somewhat innovative (new kinds of pens, white out, etc).
I think at this point MS is really representing the enterprise/corporate Office suite as well as being exceptionally annoying with their Browser strategy.
It isn't that Office is abusive or Windows is abusive, it's that Microsoft is.
Word '97 is still my favorite word processor ever. Windows 7 is one of my favorite operating systems. I don't think they're abusive.
What's abusive is how slow Office 365 is. What's abusive is how updates reset all my settings trying to make Office 365 bearable (don't use cloud, save to computer by default, don't show backstage, etc.). What's abusive is FORCING me to combine taskbar buttons on Windows 11. What's abusive (and unreliable) is randomly selecting the whole filename while I'm editing it when the file is on OneDrive.
Other than ads, search or mobile OS, I'm not sure where else Google is beating MS. I don't mean to diminish those things, they are important. But ChromeOS is clearly nowhere near displacing Windows (for instance).
New outlook keeps getting worse, while gmail keeps getting better; virtually no one under the age of 40 buys Office for personal use, they all use the google suite, Chrome has an absurd market share. Really the only place they're winning is in the ChromeOS vs Windows fight.
Yeah, I clarified the post to indicate what I actually meant (Bing.)
They would really, really like you to use Bing for search instead of Google. Until the OpenAI partnership started to bear fruit, they had no way to get their foot in that particular door. Now that they do, they will never let us forget it.
From what I’ve seen the AI gimmick has resulted in almost no new market share for Bing. I downloaded it myself and used it a couple of times but the app was buggy on iOS and I can just use ChatGPT for the generative features. I imagine many others felt the same
I think ppl need to realize that Microsoft isn't a uniform monolithic entity. Its a collection of hundreds of products all desperately vying for the attention of the market and of their own enterprise sellers. Anyone inside msft who has a "failing" product like Bing would have looked at the halo around openai and told their dev and marketing teams to drop everything and get some of that glory. To steal Mitt Romneys infamous phrase, companies are people, too.
Feels more like Google+ to me... push untested features that no one asked for but miss getting the basics right. I mean GitHub/Copilot tells me all the time that it will change the way I develop and everytime I look at windows they are still not able to implement a proper dark mode.
Its not even microsoft its everyone and their grandmother pushing AI this AI that crap. Really language model this language model that, but we've perverted what AI actually means to the public already so that's great too for technological literacy purposes.
To be fair, customers are part of the hype feedback loop. I have seen actual conversations with non-tech workers that boil down to "when we ask these people what they want AI to do, they say they don't know, but boy do they get excited every time we mention adding AI"
Using AI customer service chatbots really is a hoot. The most egregious examples they add an ai autocomplete service to your replies. So the thing asks you for your email and in the textbox its so very helpfully prefilled bob@example.com that you now need to overwrite with your actual email. Pretty fun to think of the resources consumed delivering this experience too
Ding! We have a winner. It is exactly that. No different really from 1999 products slapping Internet on everything or 2020 ones inserting crypto. Most importantly of all, its what investors and stockholders want to see now, and they will punish the stock price of anything that doesnt have an AI strategy.
I saw post in this general purpose forum where this guy claimed he asked chatgpt to learn about cnc-milling machines and material properties and produce g-code to mill a gear.
People were replying "I dont understand, but thats cool!" etc.
I checked his code and it did circle with G3 and then it did "finishing pass" which was also circle by rotating the chuck or A-axle.
When I asked him about it, he just said "Oh, I didn't look at the code"
Apple, to their credit, hasn't announcing some generative-AI powered project. Yet. I'd like to think they have an Amish-like attitude to tech fads... hence why they never had a foldable come to market.
They actually have, but they generally refer to the technology by its more technical terms. Instead of saying "generative ai", they'll say "transformer based predictive text". They have a few things (keyboard, camera, photos app, and some others) that are actually using generative AI but they don't refer to it as such.
And as for the folding phone, I think they couldn't build one to their standards. I like the concept but there's a reason they've stayed relatively niche in the market.
Yes, they have. They haven't announced much in the way of concrete products/features, but they have announced an effort to stuff iOS full of unspecified generative AI ”stuff”, much centered on Apple’s own in-house LLM, and put lots of resources behind it.
Not really, it’s literally mostly Microsoft shoehorning AI everywhere and rebranding everything into Microsoft Azure CoPilot <insert shitty product here>
I wonder if we'll see a point in the next few years where we have a keyboard key that only works if you have a subscription to Microsoft to access their AI, which I'm guessing we'll have to do at some point because all of this costs a boat load of computing resources.
The biggest thing I hate about the marketing is that they call everything CoPilot.
It's extremely confusing to users. Users get free windows CoPilot and wonder why they can't use it to generate PowerPoint presentations because the cool marketing doesn't clarify that that's a $30 a month separate license.
For this reason we actually turn windows CoPilot off. It doesn't really do much for business (it's just chatgpt really which we already offer using a custom integration) and it only causes confusion.
And these aren't the only ones. There's GitHub CoPilot, sales CoPilot (which can talk to Salesforce) and many more. Lots of which have features that won't work with the other iterations.
Another example, CoPilot studio allows you to make custom chat bots similar to the celebrity-tuned bots developed by meta. But no, these don't work in the Microsoft 365 CoPilot. It's such a mess.
Oof. This should be more like a media key than a required key. I view it like a "Volume up/down" key, it's nice but not essential. Although it's probably much less useful than a volume key.
This should really be the top comment in the whole thread because almost all of the comments I've read so far are missing this point.
Yes, _keyboard manufacturers_ are allowed to add/remove any keys that they want. But most PC users are not buying keyboards from third-party vendors. They are buying them as part of the whole PC from OEMs like Dell, HP, and Lenovo. And the Windows OEM license agreements for those vendors state (to paraphrase), "If you want to ship Windows on your systems, you have to include the Windows and Copilot keys on the keyboard."
And it follows that keyboard manufacturers _want_ to have their keyboards include all the same keys as the OEMs so that they can claim complete compatibility with the OEMs, possibly to the point of calling the keyboards Microsoft Windows(TM) Compatible on the box.
Shame on Ars for this. Would have thought they would be better. ESPECIALLY since the "since 1994" is not important for the headline at all, but they just wanted to pull something out of their ass to embellish the headline, but actually ended up making it wrong by doing so.
I miss terse but descriptive headlines. Everything now has to be 11/10 wild or clickbait that doesn't actually give a full piece of information.
That's effectively what "happens" but it's reversed; Microsoft gives a 'discount' if you're OEMing with the key ...
Perverse incentives all the way down. I remember having to work a bit to find "Apple" keyboards that would have the correct words because the Windows key was confusing (and in the wrong place until OS X easily supported remapping).
I don't recall seeing similar statements from Microsoft about the office/emoji/etc. keys being expected to be mandatory. Was there statements along those lines?
It must be in the press release because other media sites are reporting the same thing. Also Microsoft did not invent the Super/Meta key aka Windows key.
As mentioned elsewhere, this key will be required as a part of the standard Windows keyboard layout. This is not true of other recent keys (emoji, office, etc.).
Apparently they didn’t push the Cortana key either. And they say it will “eventually” be required. As a keyboard manufacturer why would I listen to Microsoft? Why would I add a key that supports a product I see no benefit from? Just so I can trend even though my customers don’t want it?
I ask because this makes the “Microsoft is going to require it so the other keys don’t count” argument useless. Who cares what Microsoft requires for their own hardware?
> As a keyboard manufacturer why would I listen to Microsoft? Why would I add a key that supports a product I see no benefit from?
As a keyboard manufacturer, you don't have to see any benefit from the product you support. The question is only will the incremental costs be more than offset by the incremental gains in sales. If MS requires the key, that's 90% of the market (really rough number), so it makes sense to add it. If MS and your competitors add it, it may make a significant percent of your customers go elsewhere. Even if they don't want the key, just because they think your keyboards are old.
Ah so aggressive keyboard trendsetters control the market then. It’s more likely that these keyboards will be a rarity. And when people see a keyboard with this key in a few years they’ll think, “what a weird old keyboard you have”.
This doesn't seem to match what I sparsely remember about USB HID; At least on my computers I remember Super generating SUPER_L (wayland) or VK_LWIN (w32) - E0 5B scancodes.
At least on Linux you can have bindings CTRL + ESC and SUPER_L be different things if you want.
This does seem to work and is news to me. Windows 11, Leveno laptop. Control+ESC does in fact open the start menu. But none of the other windows key shortcuts work - control+ESC+D did not bring me to desktop, but bookmarked current page in the browser I had open.
Because people will accidentally push the button and be sent to LinkedIn. Good for their stats. Computers are no longer being built to do what you want them to, but what the software maker wants you to do with them.
I cancelled Netflix years ago. I just got a new Shield TV remote with only a Netflix button and it is constantly getting hit. I probably hit it 5+ times a night. I wonder what they learn from that.
Open it up and put a small bit of kapton tape on the circuit board beneath that button to prevent it from making contact. Then it will do nothing, forever.
If that button makes 1 out of 10 people have a slight preference for Netflix, it still adds up. The real question is how much Netflix is paying NVidia to have it there.
Those aren’t real keys in the sense of having their own keycodes, instead they just map to some other key combination. The Copilot key will presumably be similar (?). These “new keys” are unfortunate, and a regular key that you can remap to whatever you want would be more useful.
This so flagrantly stupid. It's easier to make every KB manufacturer integrate special firmware to have one keypress register as another specific one, rather than plumbing it in as a defined new key that Windows registers a handler for???
Not defending MS, but keyboards already have controllers and have since at least the original PC (probably much earlier than that but I'm not very familiar with old mainframe terminals). Considering how many SKUs already exist for different layouts and the like, this isn't that big of a burden - at most, this requires updated firmware and pad printing layouts, and firmware already changes a decent amount as controllers and membrane layouts are modified for new SKUs and cost-reduction. And it's not like they have to update their existing stock or retool their lines right now, the phase-in will likely take some time.
Also, unless I missed something, I don't think the article says one way or another how this will be implemented. It could be a new scancode or emulate a key combo.
I for one am highly annoyed at new keys generating a combination, since that means they can't be mapped to some more useful function.
... though I've just realized that with Wayland, detecting key events is quite unreliable since half of them are eaten by the compositor ... oddly, they aren't even reliably eaten ...
What happens when you plug this keyboard into a Linux box? Is it just another Meta/Super key, except one that doesn't support combinations? Is it using one of the reserved USB HID keyboard scan codes? Or is it a separate device driver just for that one key?
The good news is, whatever they spec it to do will be available to Linux and other OSes because there's really no practical way to spec something Linux couldn't handle as well as Windows without risking antitrust action over something far too stupid to justify such a thing.
The bad news is that people do sometimes do dumb things with keyboards for no reason. I'm using a Dell laptop here. I'm used to the common Fn key on the laptop keyboard mapping the Left Arrow to Home and the Right Arrow to End. Instead this keyboard maps Fn-F11 to Home and Fn-F12 to End. No problem I sez to myself, I'll just map Fn-Left and Fn-Right myself. I've got a number of keyboard customizations already set up anyhow. Alas. The Fn key is supermagical bullshit, and according to XWindows, Fn-Left is nothing. Not an undefined keycap or something suprising... it's just plain nothing. I haven't dug any deeper to see if maybe something lower than X is eating it because I don't care enough (I remapped Windows-Left and Window-Right, retrained my fingers, and called it a day), and I judge the probability that the keyboard hardware is literally emitting no key events for this event too high to be worthwhile.
So, they could spec the Copilot key to be a super magical key that doesn't let you play with others and blocks all other keystrokes while it is held down or something. The good news is, I doubt they'd even want to do that; they're going to want to be able to tell people "Use Copilot+X" to do things themselves, even if they don't have anything for that on day one. They could in principle do something like my Fn key, though, and rigidly insist that only certain defined shortcuts could be used and everything else results in no events, and that is at least an outside chance. Hopefully they don't do anything like that, though, it's honestly more work than just letting it be an otherwise normal key.
And if they spec that the key just sends Win+Ctrl+Alt+C then what? I don't care about the new key, I care about the fact that it seems likely it will be implemented in an absurd way.
I guess yeah, you can still bind to that key combo and use the key, but you don't get capacity for a "new" binding.
I remember when I was working on Facebook games, every product manager wanted their new feature to have one-click access from the main game screen. So each new feature created a new wart on the UI.
I love the term "Thirsty Feature". I've seen this happen many a-time and it's always a sign of poor product management :/
Metrics looking dire? Did you ship the wrong product? Do users express little interest in what you have made?
No worries - juice your metrics and secure that promo by forcibly throwing your feature at users' faces in an existentially inescapable way, like an out of control t-shirt cannon!
I'm not a huge fan it has a Windows logo printed on it, but there are good usability reasons for the key, even on non-Windows systems, and there was just a big hunk of empty space between Ctrl and Alt before. So nothing is really lost for non-Windows users. It seems to me there are more pressing matters to get angry about than the logo on a keyboard.
And whether we like or not not, Windows is the dominant desktop OS, so "OS operations key" having the Windows logo i not entirely nonsensical really. Almost every non-technical person uses Windows, and even within the technical crowd Windows is probably the most common system.
Bit less of a case for the "Copilot key", although it remains to be seen if "becomes mandatory over time" will come to pass.
This empty space can be a feature for emacs users who use the outside of their opposite palm for actuating the ctrl or alt keys.
I personally gave up on this approach years ago because it was only viable on my IBM model M which is hard to transport. Instead now I always remap caps to ctrl, that way no matter what keyboard I'm using it feels familiar.
They've been using that symbol on the Command key for the last 40 years. It's probably safe to call it "well-known" by now.
(Early Apple keyboards didn't have an Apple logo on the command key either! That was added in 1986 on the first ADB keyboard -- it was added for compatibility with the Apple IIgs.)
Hmm hope this isn’t the version that mixes in web results and web advertisements into its AI response. Hope it’s not limited to certain number of back and forth responses and essentially sanitized and neutered.
Honestly, my initial reaction to this was my typical jaded, cynical, anti-MS self, but after consideration - and the key fact that they're replacing a key, not adding one necessitating a new layout - I'm honestly okay with this. does anyone use the menu key (the key that allegedly this will replace)? It's certainly one of the first to go in enthusiast keyboards using non standard 100% layouts, As long as it's not some stupid propreitary implementation and can be remapped to something useful for those of us not interested in a copilot hotkey, I'm fine with this.
Sidenote, what do people do for push to talk, because if I can disable the copilot trigger and just make this a PTT key then that's great, but I suspect a proper PTT button is one those things everyone else has solved and I've just been under a rock.
Mouse side button. Caps lock if I'm using a mouse that doesn't have one - but like, it depends on the context you're using PTT in. I only use it while gaming, really.
It's mouse-right click but on the keyboard (context menu). I believe it's an accessibility thing now that I think about it, which might be why MS is saying "maybe" and considering other keys to replace instead - though that's speculation on my part.
Also, unless I misunderstood this, this is only being mandated for hardware that ships with Windows on it (Eg, surface or desktops that come with windows installed), so this is only being mandated for peripherals that their software is going to run on (or on devices those peripherals come with and connect to).
Will Dell be lazy and ship the copilot key on their ubuntu laptops? I'd be damned shocked if they didn't, but that's just them cutting corners/oversight if I understand this correctly? For example, System76 can completely disregard this if they so choose. I'm sure Apple will.
Nearly all retail PCs are sold with Windows, even if Windows is blown away immediately and replaced with Linux or something. And while it may not be mandated for 3rd-party keyboards (e.g. logitech), it'll turn up on all of those too.
There's a very important difference, and logitech et al following suite is a choice, just like there will plenty of enthusiast/premium/higher end offerings that will let you customize it in all number of ways - like they already do.
And just because those keyboards have the windows logo on the super key doesn't mean Linux is going to kernel panic when you press. I mean, there's always a chance I suppose, but then something far more interesting is going on.
If they're giving some sort of kickback or financial incentive to embrace, extend, extinguish something with this initiative, I wouldn't be surprised, but I see no indication of that yet.
It opens the context menu of the currently focused item. It's very useful for keyboard-centric Windows users (and probably works in KDE etc, though I haven't verified that).
Interesting, may I ask why/how/in what scenarios? Is it a trackpad thing? I was assuming it was an accessibility thing. That key's always been strange to me, never could figure out who used it and for what.
Sometimes when I want to "right click" something, it's more comfortable to use the Menu key than to reach for the mouse. For example, when going through a list of items with the arrow keys.
I use the menu key. And all this new key provides is to open copilot sidebar. That’s all. I expected something like a push to talk conversation agent using the key. It’s not the case. Very underwhelming, IMHO.
EDIT: I actually assumed it would open the sidebar because that’s what I saw on Scott Hanselman’s alternate shortcut trick video. Maybe Microsoft is planning for a push to talk agent. In that case, a dedicated key might be okay.
I don't use the menu key for daily-driver uses, but I have definitely used it in situations where the mouse was inoperable. It can occasionally be useful if a window gets stuck off-screen and you can't right click it.
All rare scenarios, though.
Really? Terrible marketing design from Microsoft has always been something you can set your watch too.
Most people would just put a picture of an airplane on there and call it a day but that would be missing an opportunity for pointless over-branding that people have come to expect when trying to use their Windows PC.
Even if generative AI does see huge uptake, that does not guarantee that Microsoft's implementation is the one that everyone uses. And, even if Microsoft's is the one that everyone uses, that does not guarantee that they make money of of it.
For further examples of money-losing products that changed the world, see the entire history of our crazy industry.
And they have no useful levers to pull, so they invent a useless one and yank it as hard as they can.
We all know exactly what's causing this, and we all know exactly how it'll turn out. How do we collectively tell them to knock it off? The industry needs some mechanism to stage an intervention, perhaps once they've cooled down a little from their present mania.
> How do we collectively tell them to knock it off
The “easiest” might be an antitrust suit. Forcing or bundling (or apparently advertising) one product with another runs afoul of anti-bundling laws, and there’s an argument to be made for windows and openAI/copilot to both be monopolies.
Now, who has a dozens of millions lying around to fund such a suit?
Microsoft's goal is to have copilot present and monitoring everywhere you input data & interact with Windows (CP is always ready to help!)
This will provide an unprecedented layer telemetry gathering for Microsoft, including personal and sensitive data that wasn't as reliably available before.
Achieving one of the Gold Rings of surveillance is a powerful motivator.
Whatever harvesting your specific personal creative written output for profit without compensation is called, that’s not telemetry. Telemetry is usage statistics. This is bulk theft of your copyrighted works at scale.
> A quick Microsoft demo video shows the Copilot key in between the cluster of arrow keys and the right Alt button, a place where many keyboards usually put a menu button, a right Ctrl key, another Windows key, or something similar
I barely use any of those keys, especially the menu key.
Just Microsoft's marketing department doing what they have alwasy done.
I'd rather they take the right Win key. Sometimes I'm able to do quite a bit of work without using a mouse, and having the Menu/right-click key is useful. There's got to be cases were menus are only available via right-click.
Thanks for this! I'll keep it with another handy shortcut, Ctrl + Esc, which is an alternative to the Win key for keyboards that may not have one (e.g. IBM Model M).
Nothing quite like taking your hands off the controller to waive at your kinect in an fps game. MS hardware engineers really are interesting to say the least.
I somehow misread the title and thought Microsoft was going to require an AI keylogger be built into every keyboard. Then I realized that it is a key to turn on the keylogger!
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 275 ms ] threadwhat happens when I click Copilot button but I don't have money in Microsoft account?
But that's just my IMHO.
unreliable software combined with abusive business practices
I also switched back to Windows over Linux as my primary desktop environment.
Am I a victim of abuse?
(Mind you I don't pay for either)
Word '97 is still my favorite word processor ever. Windows 7 is one of my favorite operating systems. I don't think they're abusive.
What's abusive is how slow Office 365 is. What's abusive is how updates reset all my settings trying to make Office 365 bearable (don't use cloud, save to computer by default, don't show backstage, etc.). What's abusive is FORCING me to combine taskbar buttons on Windows 11. What's abusive (and unreliable) is randomly selecting the whole filename while I'm editing it when the file is on OneDrive.
And that's just the tip of the ice berg.
Gmail was always a parody of a mail client. Damn, even the demo called Lotus Notes was better.
These days all people has is a smartphone and it runs Android or iOS, no Microsoft in sight.
I'm guessing their office suite offerings (hosted and desktop) dwarf anything that Google has.
They would really, really like you to use Bing for search instead of Google. Until the OpenAI partnership started to bear fruit, they had no way to get their foot in that particular door. Now that they do, they will never let us forget it.
Azure's market share would indicate you are wrong about this.
[1] http://museumofradium.co.uk/tho-radia/
People were replying "I dont understand, but thats cool!" etc.
I checked his code and it did circle with G3 and then it did "finishing pass" which was also circle by rotating the chuck or A-axle. When I asked him about it, he just said "Oh, I didn't look at the code"
And as for the folding phone, I think they couldn't build one to their standards. I like the concept but there's a reason they've stayed relatively niche in the market.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-10-22/what-i...
Operating systems before that. DSLs for configuration.
Circle of tech life, Simba.
It's extremely confusing to users. Users get free windows CoPilot and wonder why they can't use it to generate PowerPoint presentations because the cool marketing doesn't clarify that that's a $30 a month separate license.
For this reason we actually turn windows CoPilot off. It doesn't really do much for business (it's just chatgpt really which we already offer using a custom integration) and it only causes confusion.
And these aren't the only ones. There's GitHub CoPilot, sales CoPilot (which can talk to Salesforce) and many more. Lots of which have features that won't work with the other iterations.
Another example, CoPilot studio allows you to make custom chat bots similar to the celebrity-tuned bots developed by meta. But no, these don't work in the Microsoft 365 CoPilot. It's such a mess.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/using-the-office-k...
Yes, _keyboard manufacturers_ are allowed to add/remove any keys that they want. But most PC users are not buying keyboards from third-party vendors. They are buying them as part of the whole PC from OEMs like Dell, HP, and Lenovo. And the Windows OEM license agreements for those vendors state (to paraphrase), "If you want to ship Windows on your systems, you have to include the Windows and Copilot keys on the keyboard."
And it follows that keyboard manufacturers _want_ to have their keyboards include all the same keys as the OEMs so that they can claim complete compatibility with the OEMs, possibly to the point of calling the keyboards Microsoft Windows(TM) Compatible on the box.
I miss terse but descriptive headlines. Everything now has to be 11/10 wild or clickbait that doesn't actually give a full piece of information.
Microsoft famously required the Windows key for branded OEM computers/laptops, and now they're trying to require a Copilot key. We'll see if it flies.
Perverse incentives all the way down. I remember having to work a bit to find "Apple" keyboards that would have the correct words because the Windows key was confusing (and in the wrong place until OS X easily supported remapping).
"Microsoft is adding a new key to PC keyboards" - true, descriptive.
"for the first time since 1994" - provides context to the weight of the decision of adding a new key, absolutely fine.
The headline is not wrong, this is the first key added that will be required as part of the standard keyboard layout since 1994. No shaming needed.
It's not mandatory, and there is a chance it never will be. Just like the office key.
I don't recall seeing similar statements from Microsoft about the office/emoji/etc. keys being expected to be mandatory. Was there statements along those lines?
Is it? I thought they are just remapping the right menu key and putting a new logo on it.
It must be in the press release because other media sites are reporting the same thing. Also Microsoft did not invent the Super/Meta key aka Windows key.
I ask because this makes the “Microsoft is going to require it so the other keys don’t count” argument useless. Who cares what Microsoft requires for their own hardware?
As a keyboard manufacturer, you don't have to see any benefit from the product you support. The question is only will the incremental costs be more than offset by the incremental gains in sales. If MS requires the key, that's 90% of the market (really rough number), so it makes sense to add it. If MS and your competitors add it, it may make a significant percent of your customers go elsewhere. Even if they don't want the key, just because they think your keyboards are old.
AFAIK the Windows key generates a CTRL + ESC - so not a modifier key like Super/Meta.
At least on Linux you can have bindings CTRL + ESC and SUPER_L be different things if you want.
So maybe not so cut and dry.
Also, unless I missed something, I don't think the article says one way or another how this will be implemented. It could be a new scancode or emulate a key combo.
... though I've just realized that with Wayland, detecting key events is quite unreliable since half of them are eaten by the compositor ... oddly, they aren't even reliably eaten ...
It would be nice if this key somehow was actually usable.
The good news is, whatever they spec it to do will be available to Linux and other OSes because there's really no practical way to spec something Linux couldn't handle as well as Windows without risking antitrust action over something far too stupid to justify such a thing.
The bad news is that people do sometimes do dumb things with keyboards for no reason. I'm using a Dell laptop here. I'm used to the common Fn key on the laptop keyboard mapping the Left Arrow to Home and the Right Arrow to End. Instead this keyboard maps Fn-F11 to Home and Fn-F12 to End. No problem I sez to myself, I'll just map Fn-Left and Fn-Right myself. I've got a number of keyboard customizations already set up anyhow. Alas. The Fn key is supermagical bullshit, and according to XWindows, Fn-Left is nothing. Not an undefined keycap or something suprising... it's just plain nothing. I haven't dug any deeper to see if maybe something lower than X is eating it because I don't care enough (I remapped Windows-Left and Window-Right, retrained my fingers, and called it a day), and I judge the probability that the keyboard hardware is literally emitting no key events for this event too high to be worthwhile.
So, they could spec the Copilot key to be a super magical key that doesn't let you play with others and blocks all other keystrokes while it is held down or something. The good news is, I doubt they'd even want to do that; they're going to want to be able to tell people "Use Copilot+X" to do things themselves, even if they don't have anything for that on day one. They could in principle do something like my Fn key, though, and rigidly insist that only certain defined shortcuts could be used and everything else results in no events, and that is at least an outside chance. Hopefully they don't do anything like that, though, it's honestly more work than just letting it be an otherwise normal key.
cries in Thinkpad
I guess yeah, you can still bind to that key combo and use the key, but you don't get capacity for a "new" binding.
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-ai-button-pc-keybo...
This is that, but for hardware.
Let's call it a Thirsty Feature
Metrics looking dire? Did you ship the wrong product? Do users express little interest in what you have made?
No worries - juice your metrics and secure that promo by forcibly throwing your feature at users' faces in an existentially inescapable way, like an out of control t-shirt cannon!
And now they are doing it again, wild.
And whether we like or not not, Windows is the dominant desktop OS, so "OS operations key" having the Windows logo i not entirely nonsensical really. Almost every non-technical person uses Windows, and even within the technical crowd Windows is probably the most common system.
Bit less of a case for the "Copilot key", although it remains to be seen if "becomes mandatory over time" will come to pass.
Sun keyboards had a diamond to mark that key, which is better to my mind than a third party commercial OS logo.
I wouldn't even mind if it was the keyboard manufacturer logo.
[0]: https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Suntype7sf.jpg
Comically to me, it has both the diamond and Apple's command key logo. Windows is the only one missing.
It can even make the laptops/PC's look dated if the OS logo changes.. which has happened.
This empty space can be a feature for emacs users who use the outside of their opposite palm for actuating the ctrl or alt keys.
I personally gave up on this approach years ago because it was only viable on my IBM model M which is hard to transport. Instead now I always remap caps to ctrl, that way no matter what keyboard I'm using it feels familiar.
https://www.imore.com/ergo-k860-split-ergonomic-keyboard-rev...
...mostly just posting this to hear what others might think that icon represents.
IE: alt
https://wiringengineabt.z19.web.core.windows.net/double-pole...
Microsoft would incur far less wrath if they would stop letting their marketing department run their company.
(Early Apple keyboards didn't have an Apple logo on the command key either! That was added in 1986 on the first ADB keyboard -- it was added for compatibility with the Apple IIgs.)
Sidenote, what do people do for push to talk, because if I can disable the copilot trigger and just make this a PTT key then that's great, but I suspect a proper PTT button is one those things everyone else has solved and I've just been under a rock.
EDITED for clarity
I've never used the menu key. I don't really know what it does (what menu it's supposed to pull up).
I object to software vendors dictating unnecessary features in peripherals their software isn't even going to run on.
Also, unless I misunderstood this, this is only being mandated for hardware that ships with Windows on it (Eg, surface or desktops that come with windows installed), so this is only being mandated for peripherals that their software is going to run on (or on devices those peripherals come with and connect to).
Will Dell be lazy and ship the copilot key on their ubuntu laptops? I'd be damned shocked if they didn't, but that's just them cutting corners/oversight if I understand this correctly? For example, System76 can completely disregard this if they so choose. I'm sure Apple will.
Nearly all retail PCs are sold with Windows, even if Windows is blown away immediately and replaced with Linux or something. And while it may not be mandated for 3rd-party keyboards (e.g. logitech), it'll turn up on all of those too.
Mandate != Trend.
There's a very important difference, and logitech et al following suite is a choice, just like there will plenty of enthusiast/premium/higher end offerings that will let you customize it in all number of ways - like they already do.
And just because those keyboards have the windows logo on the super key doesn't mean Linux is going to kernel panic when you press. I mean, there's always a chance I suppose, but then something far more interesting is going on.
If they're giving some sort of kickback or financial incentive to embrace, extend, extinguish something with this initiative, I wouldn't be surprised, but I see no indication of that yet.
When I'm in Windows, that is, which is an ever-dwindling share of my time.
EDIT: I actually assumed it would open the sidebar because that’s what I saw on Scott Hanselman’s alternate shortcut trick video. Maybe Microsoft is planning for a push to talk agent. In that case, a dedicated key might be okay.
Most people would just put a picture of an airplane on there and call it a day but that would be missing an opportunity for pointless over-branding that people have come to expect when trying to use their Windows PC.
between SW & HW companies
For further examples of money-losing products that changed the world, see the entire history of our crazy industry.
We all know exactly what's causing this, and we all know exactly how it'll turn out. How do we collectively tell them to knock it off? The industry needs some mechanism to stage an intervention, perhaps once they've cooled down a little from their present mania.
The “easiest” might be an antitrust suit. Forcing or bundling (or apparently advertising) one product with another runs afoul of anti-bundling laws, and there’s an argument to be made for windows and openAI/copilot to both be monopolies.
Now, who has a dozens of millions lying around to fund such a suit?
From my understanding, Bing hasn't stolen any marketshare from Google since integrating ChatGPT. I think this could.
Pressing a key is easier than typing in Google.
I don't.
This will provide an unprecedented layer telemetry gathering for Microsoft, including personal and sensitive data that wasn't as reliably available before.
Achieving one of the Gold Rings of surveillance is a powerful motivator.
1) copyright infringement is not theft 2) ai training is probably going to be rendered fair use
More like an explicitly enumerated exception.
Not to mine.
> A quick Microsoft demo video shows the Copilot key in between the cluster of arrow keys and the right Alt button, a place where many keyboards usually put a menu button, a right Ctrl key, another Windows key, or something similar
I barely use any of those keys, especially the menu key.
Just Microsoft's marketing department doing what they have alwasy done.
I need it in situations where I don't have a working mouse. eg: new virtual machine without extensions or where where I'm debugging mouse issues.