Ask HN: How many of you are consciously downsizing your devices/going retro?

112 points by FerretFred ↗ HN
Although Sales and Marketing would have us believe that we should upgrade our devices on a regular basis, a growing number of us are pushing back and consciously not buying new and many cases going retro and using older machines with a modern OS. I eschewed desktops in favour of laptops and now I've progressed to an iPad Mini 6 and a 2018 Android Tablet with Termux and Debian 12 (non-GUI). How about you?

236 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 272 ms ] thread
Not the hardware, but the software, stripping down, SDK included, as much as possible for my own usage.

Then you realize how filthy the software stack is... and not for the good reasons.

I've gone retro with my watch. Wearing a simple Casio to avoid getting sucked into using my phone and checking notifications each time I want to see the time.

For my laptop I have an M1 pro macbook. It was a huge upgrade over the previous intel mac, but I don't feel the need to upgrade to the M2 or M3 machines, the M1 still feels really fast to me.

(comment deleted)
I likewise switched back to $20 Casio watch after a few years of Apple Watch. I loved a lot about the Apple Watch, but just couldn’t deal with the distraction and time suck of “let me see what time it is oh has anybody message me, my favorite person?” At first I was tempted to spend big on some Casio GShock and while the notifications wouldn’t be there I realized it was still scratching a similar “all-knowing” itch. So $20 Casio it’s been for awhile and I love it.
Quartz isn't retro enough for me...I find clockwork watches (especially with skeleton mechanisms) more appealing.
Dumbphone + automatic watch.
what is an automatic watch?
It’s a watch with an automatic movement: clockwork that is wound by movement of the wrist, as opposed to a battery or a winder.
An automatic watch is “self-winding” but fully mechanical.
Librem 5 phone + Pinephone.
(comment deleted)
I try and leave the phone at home some days and get by on a cellular smart watch. It has no browser and no YouTube, which are probably my main distractions.
I’m not sure if this counts but I recently got a kindle and I love it, the screen is much easier on my eyes than my iPad, and since the device is so basic there’s no ability to flip to a browser or play music or anything else, which keeps me focused on what I’m reading.
With age, I've realized that new shiny things don't do much for me. The opposite has become apparent, in fact.

The value I derive from using something increases over time as it ages. This works better with some things than others. For example, a house or older audio equipment which doesn't tend to degrade quickly over time.

As a result, I find myself spending more time enjoying those things which age better over time than new technology which does not.

Keep in mind that folks who are not downsizing will probably not comment here, so if you are actually looking for numbers, this may bot be the best way to do it.

Personally, I don't buy new devices every single year, but I'm not downsizing my phone or computer any time soon. I still keep my smartphone with me at all times, I'm not getting rid of my desktop, and I'm totally happy with how things are.

I'm just curious to see if there's a general trend rather than specific numbers - I seem to be coming across more and more sites that cover this kind of topic so I was curious to see what the hackers thought... The Permacomputing site caught my eye the other day: https://permacomputing.net
Slightly off topic questions: - You are running Debian 12 on an Android tablet? - Can you specify the tablet specs and what sort of battery life you get out of it?
I use a Thinkpad T460s (Linux), 4 year old Android phone and an old Garmin running watch I bought off ebay.

The simple fact for me is that all of these types of devices are thoroughly comoditised now, and almost perfected, so even old tech runs well, for my needs at least. I don't experience any issues not being "up to date" and it feels satisfying to not have blown thousands trying to keep up.

I like the Thinkpad T-Series. I own a T430 (equipped with a i5 quad-core processor and Full-HD IPS display), T450s, T480s, and T14. I can confirm that even a decade-old T430, after some upgrades, is still sufficient for using firefox + terminal + tmux + nvim, programming, running containers, and managing k8s clusters with kubectl and k9s.

If someone is actively looking for a second-hand device on eBay, I recommend the T480 as it has a very good price/performance ratio. Pick one with a i5/i7 quad-core, 32 GB Ram, FHD or WQHD IPS display and you will be fine.

I am posting this from a used T480 I got on eBay for $250 a couple months ago. What a deal! I'll never buy a new computer again. The only thing I changed was the battery, which was basically shot.
Does your T480s support 32GB? I know some ram is soldered and there is only one ram slot.

Or did you mean buy a T480 that has dual ram slots? 16x2

I actually have both - a T480s from work and a T480 as my personal device. I do recommend the T480 since it has dual RAM slots, and the maximum RAM for the T480s is 24GB. Plus, the battery can be swapped out. The only things I like better in the T480s are the materials, form factor, and weight.
Not sure about the T480s, but I'm posting this comment from a T480 with 64GB ;-)
I have a T14 at work, but I actually prefer the second-hand T480 I bought for home use.
I haven't bought anything for years, all my income is scoped to go to retirement and financial freedom, anything that I buy must be extremely needed, I actively avoid people that buy gadgets or tech, because I also feel consumerism is for boring people with little arguments, but that's anecdata and is personal

EDIT: I flag every post about gadgets I see here on HN, my contribution to a better society

What do you do for excitement instead ?
Not sure how the things are related? How should buying something excite me? .-. I watch stuff with friends, go out with friends, organise dinners at home, bbqs, etc.

Should be noted that I am italian so maybe there could be a cultural difference to explain myself

Probably not related but wasn't sure how you defined 'consumerism'

> I watch stuff with friends, go out with friends

To me this is consumption too.

You are defining it as consuming physical things (that are not food ) ?

For me there is a difference, I am not continuously looking forward to the latest beer, I am looking forward to an experience, I could also go out and have a chat with a friend on a bench, without consuming anything, I have been talking with a friend on a bench in a park until 4 AM in the morning few weeks back, and we didn't consume anything, but even if we have a beer, I am paying for the experience of spending time with someone, not the beer itself
Definitely, If you can sit on the beach everyday by yourself or with a friend, then yea you go can go with consumption.

I think most ppl would find that intolerable after a few days. I think you can't either based on your first response. You are resorting to consuming media, consuming food ect. I don't understand how consuming a movie is very different from consuming a new gadget. Surely gadget also gives you an "experience"?

I am just upset with a system that exploits people weaknesses in order to sell them something, so I don't want to support it, that's why I am continuously acting in order to unsupport it, advocate for a life without gadgets
I recently have to reconsider this definition and set boundaries with my friends. Finding the ability to have a fun experience together that wasn't centered around paying for access to the experience, such as access to a place or event, or in drugs/alcohol. We were all kinda taught we have to "buy" something in order to have fun. Beer, food, vacation, concert tickets, so on. I'm not saying I don't do that any more but when I'm with my friends I'm there for a reason and I want it to be them, not the thing we paid for, it comes secondary.
I find this surprising. Did we not just have a pandemic, where people had to have fun without 'going out' and spending money? It was great to see so many people gathering in parks etc. instead of going to restaurants.

I found it very strange and sad that after the lifting of lockdowns people went right back to the way things used to be. Did we learn nothing? Such a squandered opportunity.

What happened to just meeting up in a street or at someone's place and 'hanging out' informally? At what point did it become near-obligatory to have a sit-down dinner or 'go out' to enjoy the company of friends?

I have my personal opinions with the pandemic, but I would have to agree as an opportunity to embrace more positive social behaviors. Surely didn't stick in my woods either. Plenty of things changed, but I would agree. The other part is that at this point were going on 4 years since and I would say my social habits in my age group just changed anyway, so IDK to be honest.
Serial murders
Of people buying gadgets, my contribution to deceleration :D
How do you know if something is extremely needed if you don't see other people using it?
In fact as I said I haven't bought anything for years :D
I think that's an odd way to determine needs for oneself.
Unless you build everything you need from scratch I don't see how it's odd.
I managed to eke out 5 years on an XPS15 I was issued, but with no Windows 11 support (9570) its lifespan was limited.

I ran Ubuntu for a while, but 23.10 broke LUKS and graphics support on my Nvidia GPU was limited.

I’ve just bought a 2.5 MacBook Pro 16” refurbished, and my iPhone is 3 years old and counting with no plans to upgrade.

I think getting as long as we can out of our devices is crucial, but the big wheel keeps on turning with technologies like Windows 11 and even Chrome.

It’s an honourable endeavour but certainly disincentivised by big tech.

I always hated the idea to have an Apple Watch. I told everyone, so no one would ever gift one to me. Then - at first to my disdain - my wife gave one to me, because she feared I could not get help if something happened on my long runs through lonely woods.

Then I found: the thing is my solution to my Smartphone addiction. It has music, podcasts, a phone, I can fine tune notifications so I only get interrupted when I wish and I can have all my cards on it, just like the iPhone. But: no social media. No quick browsing. No reading. So now, I spend a lot of time just with the watch, especially when we go out.

I bought one a ±year ago and I think it's easily my best tech purchase of the last decade, if only for the fitness functions.
I'm finding software bloat to be the biggest prohibiting factor. I'm continually astonished by how much worse each update brings. Even Linux will not stop bloating.

It used to be that one could surf the Internet with a graphical user-interface using a 100 mhz cpu with 16 megabytes (not gigabytes) of memory.

That same machine would be fairly snappy for checking email, writing documents and programming. It would even run 3D games, and with an accelerator card at 24 mhz, it would run them fairly smoothly too.

For everyday use, I think the most retro I'm having some limited success using is not very retro, it's an imac running osx 10.6.8, a very capable machine, but still, no match for the bloat of modern websites. (HN excluded, that, and many of the articles it links too work well enouhg).

Sometimes I catch myself daydreaming about a world where we just threw all existing software/hardware into a volcano and started from a clean slate. Imagine RISC-V based PCs/laptops with properly replaceable/repairable parts and the OS (from core utils to the kernel) written in a functional JIT compiled language... I miss the days when tech was built with poking around in mind.
In my dream it's a nice MicroVax or 68000 series CPU with at least 16 registers and a built in floating point unit. Not a Z80 or 8088 derivative.
I just bought a 5 year old rugged Dell laptop on eBay for $50. Why would I pay a premium price for the top of the line laptop nowadays unless I was a game developer or my work is buying me a new laptop?
I tried using a Game Boy Advance SP with my son. It has no internet connection and he gets to play some fun stuff. It worked really well!

But when it comes to reducing my tech footprint, the only issue I found with going down this path were bank apps. It is basically a requirement to have either an iOS or Android modern device to do anything.

Do banking via their website?
Still works for me. I've never had a mobile device of any kind and banking hasn't been an issue. My bank (Ally) briefly made some noise about deposits moving to mobile-only but they seem to have backed off. I guess it'll probably happen someday.

The only thing I've encountered that I truly can't use is the city bikeshare program.

Many banks require you to use their crappy custom-made 2FA apps that require Android/iOS
US Financial Institutions? Do you have an example?
Not downsizing exactly, but I 'm still on my iPhone 12 mini.

Partly because I prefer the smaller screen but also because its still very fast and reliable. I had previous had a Gen 1 iPhone SE which I only gave up on due to accidental damage.

I don't normally wear a watch, but when I do I have a LED watch from the 1970's from Texas Instruments. Its a real battery hog but still fun.

https://digitalcollections.smu.edu/digital/collection/tir/id...

My Roku TV has wifi disabled and I rely on an older Apple TV for subscriptions (Netflix, PBS, Disney+). The main use-case for AppleTV though is the Infuse Pro app which I use to manage and play my media collection (backup of DVDs etc) from my NAS.

https://firecore.com/infuse

“Still on”. I bought this a year ago, because the bigger XR was hurting my hands
I like my 12 mini, but, man it feels like it has started slowing down for absolutely no good reason.

Will hold out for the next SE, whenever that is. Done buying the same phone over and over every 3 years.

I'm on a 13 mini and am hoping there's an SE this spring that merges the mini line with the SE line. OTOH, I'm guessing the 16 Pro that will come out this fall will have built-in LLM capabilities, which might be worth the size/cost tradeoff.
I always cheap out on my desktop setup (somewhat) but it's currently an old i5-4000 series in an old Lenovo M73 Tiny running Windows 10 stripped barebones.

The CPU in the weird cellular base station product I'm reverse engineering is significantly more powerful than my desktop PC, but c'est la vie...

As for my phone: I use an iPhone. At the end of the day it's a system I don't have to care and feed. It just works and does what I want it to and I don't need anything else.

Most of the synths and drum machines I own are from the 1980s, if that counts? ;)

When I bought a Raspberry Pi 5 recently (to run as a always-on local web-server) it did cross my mind that it was probably plenty powerful enough for 95% of what I do.

I’ll stick with my 64 core threadripper for now though :D

Phone: just gone from iPhone 12 to 15 Pro. Not noticed much difference, will stick for a while I reckon.

TV: recently did my once every ten years upgrade to a Sony A95, which was a mind blowing improvement.

iPad: mostly been buying reconditioned models, as they’re all plenty powerful enough.

So other than the iPads, not really downsizing yet, but it feels like most average tech is actually super powerful these days, so I can see myself doing more in the future.

This has always been my policy. Use your machines/phones until they die/become unusable and only then buy something new. All my desktops/laptops/tablets are over 10 years old (core duo/core 2 duo/core i7) and my phone 6 years (Pixel 2). Only this year have i bought a new Macbook Pro (M3 Max) since my old mid-2010 27-inch iMac died (which i will get repaired soon with others).
That is strange policy. The machine may never die, there are Commodore 64's that still work.

One should use the machine while it enables an efficient workflow. As soon as it doesn't, and there are those that do for a reasonable price, one should switch. Anything else is equal to wasting time, which is obviously a bad thing.

This is highly contextual. I do drive 20 years old car but it is great, I almost never maintain it, it gets me from A to B in the same time as new cars and in given city landscape is equally safe. Buying a new car would be total waste of money AND time now. Contrary, I can replace phone or headphones within a year if there are annoying things that make me lose time.

You have misunderstood my comment. I wrote until they die/become unusable; so your sentiment "One should use the machine while it enables an efficient workflow. As soon as it doesn't, and there are those that do for a reasonable price, one should switch" is implicit here. The "workflow" varies from machine to machine.

For example;

1) Nexus 10 - battery replaced and being used a a ebook reader.

2) iPad (very old) - watch Youtube videos, surf and read iBooks.

3) Dell Inspiron laptop (2008) - Linux machine.

4) iPhone 4 - battery replaced, Stream music to a old Jawbone jambox bluetooth speaker. The sound is actually excellent, probably the iPhone4 DSP/DAC is very good.

5) Macbook Pro (2008) - Regularly used until a few years ago when it died. Needs to be repaired.

6) iMac 27-inch (mid-2010) - Was my main work machine until last year when it died. Needs to be repaired.

7) Surface Pro 1st gen (2012) - My only current usable machine.

8) Pixel 2 - My current phone.

As you can see any old device can be very well repurposed for some specific use. One should not get sucked into the "consumerist mindset" pushed by external forces but always think about needs/wants, financial burden and environmental effects.

This has always been my policy with everything be it cars/furniture/shoes/clothing/electronics/etc. i.e use everything to the fullest until they die/become unusable.

(comment deleted)
I was on my iPhone 7 until last year when it couldn't open banking apps anymore. Literally the best phone format ever. If only battery lasted a few more hours.
I still have a 2018 MBP. As much as I like new things, I can't yet justify upgrading. iPad has aged into obscurity and likely won't be replaced. Moved from an Apple Watch to a Garmin Instinct 2 (wanted muuuch longer battery + GPS for backcountry camping/canoeing). I can read notifications but not respond from the watch, and this seems optimal distraction-wise.
> Although Sales and Marketing would have us believe that we should upgrade our devices on a regular basis

Who would actually even believe that in the first place? Maybe it's an American thing, but with our French spending power, I know of absolutely no one in my family or friend group who has a set schedule for upgrading their devices. It's either "use until it breaks, then replace" or "use until I absolutely need a replacement because it's too slow", the latter of which usually being after 3 years or so.

As for downsizing, once again everyone I know isn't really "downsizing", but buying refurbished devices a few generations old, as the price for brand new devices, even refurbished ones, has gotten pretty crazy.

In Hong Kong I'm sure there is a (not small) section of the population that buys the new flagship every year.
I have zero TVs, IoT devices, home automatons, etc. I generally dislike anything that beeps and anything with LEDs. Though I built my own house, I don't even own a microwave. The stove is gas. I like candles. In winter we heat with firewood. Though I have ornamental gardens (that I am expanding to a garden of 100 roses), and an orchard, I have no watering lines timers. I water everything by walking around and pointing at it with the hose.

for what are called computers:

1 desktop - a 2021 box that I built (this replaced a 2013 box)

1 laptop, 1 phone (a pixel 7), 1 camera (Leica Q2) (well and a Praktica MTL5 made in East Germany)

And one kindle. And an iPad, for work testing.

I'm a web developer. I love technology. I think what you have should be as good as you can make it for yourself. But it has to feel and serve very human purposes to be worthwhile. I don't think many gadgets do that. Many devices, especially modern ones, take the liberty of interrupting you often. I do not wish to be interrupted.

> I do not wish to be interrupted.

Don't you have to interrupt yourself to remember to water the garden?

i think he meant to be intwrrupted with technology.
Interrupting yourself is just individual agency. Nothing like being interrupted by an external device.
No. Watering the garden doesn't have to be done at an exact time. It can wait til the end of some other task. It can wait til tomorrow. Hell, depending on where you live it can wait a week.
Hey I just wanted to thank you, your comment reminded me to plug in my car (which, like watering, doesn't have to be done at a certain time but does have to happen before bed).

If I hadn't plugged it in my wife would have been stranded tomorrow after she got where she was going.

Hooray I helped on accident!(by which I mean: you're welcome :D)

Glad she didn't get stranded.

Be careful with the firewood, there may be a link between lung cancer and fireplaces https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37542784/
Also gas stoves
Come to the induction side, it's amazing and eventually just normal. I truly love our cooktop and am sad using anything else. I no longer need a slow cooker, I can keep a steady simmer for days, and nothing gets a faster boil.
And advice how to stop the buzzing?
On my induction range, the buzzing only happens when I’m pumping 40 amps through a pot and its contents. The range boils water so quickly that I don’t find it annoying. Ymmv
I have experienced varying levels of buzzing that can sometimes be reduced by centering the cookware better but it had been minor, doesn't bother me, and I believe it's part of normal operation.
You may as well ask how to stop the gas stove clicking on ignition or the extraction fan from droning. Cooking makes sound.
Any particular devices you recommend? I'm not quite sure of what you're referring to with induction, or how it works well as a slow cooker? Honestly curious.
See Wikipedia for a bit more detail[0] but induction cooktops use a magnet to directly heat your cookware. They can heat faster and more exactly while remaining more consistent over time. They are safer because the cooktop surface is not heated and is often actively cooled but also because they can detect the pan being removed or not really being on the burner and disable themselves after a bit. The magnet gives far greater control over the results for better range. With electric coils and gas, I rarely had the consistency or stability of the high/low temperature that is trivial on my induction stove which allows me to use it the same way I use use a slow cooker. You may need new cookware since it'll need to be magnetic/ferrous.

I've had a few issues with the Samsung we bought (not nearly as many as the other Samsung appliances we bought at the same time. So I wouldn't necessarily suggest that brand specifically and I don't remember the brand names I used in the UK before returning to the US.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_cooking

Thanks for the tips!. As for Samsung, agreed. I avoid it for appliances. A relative of mine has a Samsung refrigerator and a large Samsung oven. The fridge has done relatively okay (but far from what its price justifies), but the oven has been a shit show from day one.
To be honest, the handful of years you might live longer is not worth the cost of not being able to enjoy a wood fire.
I'd take a few extra years with my family over a wood fire tbh. Very few things are worth years of your life when they have safe replacements.
Not sure if you've tried it, but central heating doesn't really interrupt you too much. ++ Would recommend over firewood (assuming you're actually on a grid)
Heating by gas is 6 times more expensive than heating by wood here.
This is hilarious. I got halfway through this and thought “this sounds like Simon Sarris” then looked at the id.