Ask HN: Is it really so dull to work in huge company?

75 points by thrway12345688 ↗ HN
I have changed job lately. And this is my first time in really large company with ~300k employees worldwide. So this is my first, first hand, experience in large company. My first impressions is that everyone knows only quite narrow field of the project. And it still surprises me as I'm used to opposite. Next thing that really struck me was how hard is to just approach someone and get to know him. As there are people sitting next to each other that have way different work. So you never know if what the guy next to you actually does, also it is hard to approach someone since most of the people spend large amount of time on online calls. Therefore you really never know if you can approach someone and don't look like an disturbing idiot. And lastly I feel like we are dealing with not that much of complicated technical products, but the complexity of work is created by all the processes (SAP, etc.). I mean the people are actually pretty nice, they are not stupid at all, but everything just seems so dull. And I have feeling like it really does not matter if you are really good or under average. You just learn all the processes that company has and the execute them. I feel like I'm in huge ant colony that's somehow producing results. And suddenly can understand why startups can undercut such behemoths. I mean I read about it plenty of times, but it is very different if you are living it.

My question is. Is that really how big companies operate? Or are there exceptions? For me that means that I have to accept to just provide defined outputs to some defined inputs (for decent wage). Or avoid such companies if I'm not able to accept it.

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Yes, that all sounds typical of the experiences I have had in large companies.
The bigger a company get, the more burocracy it develops.
And the problem here is the lack of agency of the individual people. Larger companies run everything through committees, even ad hoc ones (i.e. "meetings"). The approval chain is long and slow.

My favorite anecdote was when the company basically told us that we could not talk directly to the person next to us, and had to route everything through the project systems.

Small companies, more folks are "on the line", and thus more engaged in the entirety of it, rather than their own little niche. Similarly, you have more access to people for discussions, problem solving, etc.

Yea, "it's interruption". And that's just where you need to learn personal boundaries on the individual level, rather than corporate structured boundaries that simply dropped on the team.

In large companies, more and more people are "doing their portion", "not my job", etc. I'm not suggesting everyone needs to work insane hours and burn the midnight oil, but it's the ability of build a local culture rather than have on mandated upon you from up high.

When you're empowered and have agency, you're (I am) more motivated to participate and grow and engage instead of checking my boxes for the weekly TSP reports.

> My favorite anecdote was when the company basically told us that we could not talk directly to the person next to us, and had to route everything through the project systems.

I have a similar anecdote, but at a medium-sized company (a famous, now-defunct computer game outfit).

They had a rule that you couldn't talk about your work to anyone who wasn't on your direct team. In practice, what it meant was that nobody talked to anybody about anything other than trivialities. I found it so alienating that it's the primary reason why I quit.

Personally, I have always struggled to find enjoyment and meaning while working at a big company so I would ask yourself if a big company is right for you. If you decide to stay, try to make a couple of friends. People need to eat so see if anyone wants to eat lunch with you. There are always people who have been there for decades who understand how everything fits together, so seek those people out. Play the "new guy/gal" card, and see if you can get some time with them just to tap into their historical knowledge and start building a relationship with them.
I don't know if I'd call working in a huge company "dull" -- to me, that depends more on the work I'm doing than the nature of the company I'm doing it for.

However, working in a huge company does bring all sorts of things, including many you list, that I dislike. As a result, I very strongly prefer working for smaller outfits.

But everything's a tradeoff. There are different upsides and downsides to huge companies, tiny companies, and every size in between. the trick is to be clear with yourself about what tradeoffs are best for you.

On the whole, big companies tend to be bureaucratic behemoths out of necessity. You might find them generally dismal places to work.

But then again, you might find some really fun and interesting pockets within those big companies.

I'm a project manager for a small software product at a large company. I like to think that my little space within this huge company is an enjoyable place to work. While I am responsible to stakeholders to make sure we accomplish certain major tasks, I get a bucket of funding to allocate as I please. My team and I can decide on our own what tools to use, what languages, how to structure our development schedule, etc. It's all very not-behemoth-like.

But go across the hall (figuratively speaking -- my team works mostly remote) and you might find an abundance of process and bureaucracy. I've been there too. And admittedly, that may well be what the majority of the company is like. But if you can find a project / group / etc. that suits you, you may be happy working there even if the style of the rest of the company isn't to your liking.

It's 99% boredom followed by 1% sheer terror whenever layoff season comes around.
Not being approached at my desk is a feature, not a bug.
Your perfectly described my experience in every single huge company I worked for!
Yes, it is, but only if you're a technical person, some sort of pragmatist, or have vast niche/field/focused experience and want to apply it.

In such case you'll find yourself spending most of your time fighting to not become a complete bureaucrat, and eventually using only the minority (if any) of your time doing actual work.

However there's plenty of people that's there to "strategize", to "synergize", they're on online calls all day long, it's all career path and promotions and (hopefully) golden parachutes for them, so they'll call it exactly the opposite of "dull". What you call "dull" is actually _their goal_.

On the flip side, startup environments are way less dull but way more punishing, and may not be for everyone, or may not be for every stage of life.

I like the culture of huge companies because as a programmer I enjoy working on technical problems and working on a large system and improving things that millions of people actually use is cool. You can make something 2% better and that's worth like 50 million bucks. Seeing really large stuff come together that many people work on is fascinating to me.

That there's more streamlined processes to me is a good thing, because it actually frees my time up. Small companies just have so much more overhead and chaos relative to the size of the business.

The huge company I work for has managed to combine the drawbacks of small companies with the drawbacks of large companies. We need a ton of approvals and reviews for even the slightest thing but the processes to actually get things done barely exist so it's chaos with a ton of overhead.
Heh, that totally sounds like the one i'm working for...

Bonus points for "nobody being responsible for anything" plus a healthy dose of "yeah no, we don't have any budget for this this year"...

The problem with large companies is that by design, it is almost impossible to see a product from all stages and from beginning to end. What that means is you're working on a tiny piece, and you can't make creative decisions on how to make things work. You also don't get much real feedback on what you do from users.

Maybe it's preference, but I much prefer to work in a small company where you can actually influence decision making. I've worked at some large companies and now I am independent and I also work in a very small company with half a dozen people. I much prefer it because it feels like there is real meaning in what I am doing.

Large companies can give you some meaning too but you have to fight for it there, and work against the bureaucracy, which I hate so I left that life behind.

It's not dull for me. God I wish it was.
Do you want to produce something, or do you want a paycheque for doing work?

If you're a plumber, do you want to be responsible for building a brand new skyscraper with top of the line pipes, or do you just want to show up to your dead-boring factory maintenance job, fix the things you know how to fix and go home to your wife, kids and/or hobbies - which is where you draw satisfaction from life.

Hackernews is slanted towards the "build the latest and greatest and be the best software developer ever". The people who are just average, or good enough for their job, but don't care about staying current with the bleeding edge of tech (like what's posted daily on HN) aren't here to give you a contradictory opinion.

I also think this is also industry dependent --

sometimes you just wanna work at a small company that prints money, with a boring tech stack, say ROR, Golang -- but doing interesting work.

compared to big company where it's a lot of custom tooling, then other people bringing the latest and greatest tech to enhance their resumes or profile of the company through tech talks etc.

end of day -- it's finding what works for you.

I never bought the idea that work has to be hell to be financially viable. That's just marketing from the C-suite psychopaths.

Have you seen many new skyscraper-level sites pulling all-nighters constantly? And if you saw one, do they do it with the same people that was there at 7am the day prior? There's regulations (and sometimes unions) that make those the best-paying jobs for plumbers and also making sure that the plumbers can go to their families at the end of the day.

My understanding is that there's a ton of overtime in construction work. The projects are on a fixed schedule (a Gant chart made in MS Project), but unpredictable things happen all the time, so overtime is necessary to catch up.
Depends on what you're referring to with overtime. If it means 24/7 rotating shifts to compensate for the unpredictable, yes, that absolutely happens. So it's not so much "overtime", is "off-hour shifts".

Again, this started as an "skyscrapers sites" analogy. If you have a guy working in such construction for 20 hours straight, you're calling for a (very possibly fatal or catastrophic) accident, and there's absolutely no insurance company that'll cover for that, among other problems you'll be calling for.

I'm definitely on that side of building stuff. I really need something to work on and having progress, also unfortunately I'm more into HW. As companies making something HW related are really rare these days. So I'm not shaming the job itself but more like trying to understand if this is just something not for me.
> " complexity of work is created by all the processes "

this is it. it's not that it's boring, it's that it's POINTLESS. the bigger a company gets, the more it's burdened by its processes. and that comes directly at the expense of your career and satisfaction, if you like, y'know, actually building stuff. if you like to wrangle process, which is a career unto itself, then well, enjoy, you're in the right place.

There’s nothing dull about it! Make sure to keep detailed records of everything you and more importantly the people around you do and say. Working in a corporation is about having brag lists for yourself and nuclear information to use against those around you, especially your boss. As you get experience you realize that at any given time everyone has said or done something that could be taken out of context as evidence that that person is a risk to the organization. It’s just that usually people don’t use such information, leaving it in a benign state. That is until they do. And hopefully not against you!
You just described Microsoft.

(and I'm sure its FAANG friends too)

I remember when it was "FAANGMA" - I don't know why people stopped considering Microsoft "worthy" of being an aspirational employer.

I've done my time there (3 years as a college-hire) - still my favourite overall employer, I just had a sucky position (and undiagnosed ADHD... yah...).

P.S. If any hiring-managers in the OSG Shell team (i.e. Explorer.exe) see this, get in touch, there's so many small little bugs I want to fix!

The term was originally about stocks of similar profile, not which employers one should aspire to have. Jim Cramer coined it, and modified it a couple times (eventually adding Microsoft).
It hasn’t been osg for several years now. It was WDG, then something else, then just part of Azure. When I left, windows got split in two and the shell was under the UI team.
I have friends who’ve been working at microsoft for years and seem to like it, and others who worked there and described it as “soul destroying”. I guess in really big companies you can have varied experiences depending on specific team/location/boss.
> and nuclear information to use against those around you, especially your boss.

Always remember MICE: Money, Ideology, Compromise, and Ego. You probably don't control the money and the only ideology is capitalism so compromise and ego are the ones you should focus on.

Honey pots work the best as compromise (especially sexual in nature) and you should always practice your skill of manipulating your coworkers' egos to help them along in the path to self destruction ("never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake").

Can't imagine willingly putting oneself in the environment you're describing.

These are people playing on the same team as you?

What kind of humans choose work environments where they're surrounded by foes?

Hoping this is winding down.

I was just poking fun but everyone seems to have taken it so seriously.

I can’t imagine anyone working in such an environment. The MICE acronym is from counterintelligence and espionage.

Tried it. Turned out, being the Director's friend was way more important.
I would rather be homeless than spend majority of my days like this
In many ways, it's about where you are in any company. If you're in a business critical, mature project with massive risk controls to prevent anything from going haywire, it's going to seem slow, since you'll (for instance) end up spending 5 hours running tests, formal verification and such to ensure that you're 5 line change doesn't break the system. If, on the other hand, you're in the new Skunkworks division, trying to figure out how the competition could upend the entire market, you might get less defined, less bureaucratic work. I've seen both in some of the oldest and largest companies I've worked for, but even the Skunkworks stuff is really different from startup world. Many of those projects are filled with workplace politics about who's positioned to be promoted to Senior Vice President of New Technologies and AI and who's going to be shown the door for having wasted $50million on something that can never make it to market, or even more esoteric things that only make sense in the context of the giant organization. Most of those dynamics are external, pointed at investors and finding product-market fit at smaller places. There's also less of a built in scaling factor at smaller companies -- you definitely want to figure out how to scale the product, but it's less immediately critical, whereas in a giant company, if they figure out how to upend their own business, they could theoretically deploy nearly instantly.
Your post is excellent. Context really changes everything!

As a whole though I would say large orgs generally bring stability and stability can be boring to our brains that have evolved from thousands of years of living hand-to-mouth.

>wasted $50million

the amount of waste is unbelievable and utterly sickening. and that 50 million is just a drop in the bucket, compared to the huge waste of money and other resources worldwide, and not just in the software field.

Yes that was my experience as well, except I went to a big company straight out of school so didn't know that it could be different at a small company.
All the layers and interrelated systems means that any given change of note requires a lot more input and communication than at a small company. Some of this is necessary, but usually a lot of it’s because most organizations are terrible at communication and making relevant information accessible.

This means one of two things:

1) You will work with similar independence to a developer at a smaller company—but spent 10-20% as much time directly working on code and related things, with the rest going to tracking down people and systems to get what you need to start/proceed/complete a feature.

2) Or, someone else will do all that for you, you’ll have far less independence, and will basically just be killing detailed Jira ticket exactly as assigned. But you’ll write a lot more code and such.

That really depends on a company, culture and your relationship with the manager who is doing chasing and approving things for you. I would agree that bigger organizations are slower at deciding things and some things are just decided for you, but the two extremes are not necessary mutually exclusive.
It depends on your role. If your just a SW dev on big team delivering some incremental feature its pretty dull. If you’re reporting to a director or above you can try fun stuff and push the envelope more.
Working on something that actually gets used and helps people do things is never truly dull. Even software for the DMV
That's by design. Large org needs consistent throughput. Think of it like you engineer system. When small, you have pets: each computer is important. Then you scale so you maybe get rid of special computer. All computer is cattle. You want consistent performance, willing to accept lower performance for consistency. Advantage is you can build bigger building blocks. No need for 9654X with 1 GB of cache. Everything is now VM. Mechanically unsympathetic, but you swap each piece in logical space, individual device does not matter.

You go bigger. Business units now. Deliver consistent performance. All units is not Skunkwork. Just machine. Big unit. Transistor in company CPU. Eventually company as well is just transistor in nation CPU. Nation just transistor in Earth CPU.

I think the impression you get depends on whether you belong to cost or profit centre of the org, and techies tend to be part of the former.
As there are many people working on the same code base, change should be hard, it's a good thing.

As it takes a lot of time to go through the process of changing things, make sure to invest time in deciding what that change should be (and how to structure it in a way that it's easiest to go through the process) instead of making the change that you would do if you would work on the code base yourself.