Frankly I'm looking forward to not being harrassed endlessly to update my computer. I'm happy to live on an EOLed Windows 10 if it means that I don't have to keep playing goalie against whatever random crap Microsoft thinks they should be allowed to put on my machine.
I'm sure they'll continue to play games with updates that make the big warnings even bigger and scarier.
In the meantime, they told me in 2015 that Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,
"Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10" [1]. That came from a Microsoft employee, was widely reported, and not corrected; so it may not have been an official statement, but it's not like it came from nowhere. My plan is still to move to FreeBSD on the desktop once Windows 10 is dead; but we'll see what happens to my plan when it comes time to actually do it.
I upgraded my Windows 7 to 10 (due to Chrome-based browsers weren't being updated anymore for Windows 7, and there was the WebP exploit) using DISM, and I learn that you can also upgrade Windows 10 to Enterprise, which is a little less car-salesman-ly than Pro (no web stuff on the Start Menu/search for example):
Title is a bit misleading. Originally I was under the impression that this was regarding some vulnerability in the new "recall" feature they released. Turns out it's just a warning telling users to upgrade to Windows 11 or else they'll lose security updates in a year and a half.
Does anyone else work for a company or have clients who are investing heavily in moving off of Microsoft entirely in the past month? It's been like 90% of my work in the past bit. Like, whole ASP.NET apps that were running for decades just being migrated over with a one year timeline to get away from this nonsense.
Windows has been nothing but a source of problems for my employer’s Windows-based hardware. 7 was the last version I would consider basing a product on.
When were these applications built that "this nonsense" is a surprise? I mean good for them for deciding now rather than never, just seems strange to me.
Or worse - code built around 90s code such that the ancient code is now untouchable and you have to perform binary gymnastics to accomplish your goals.
In an alternative universe, Microsoft stayed on Windows 7, monetized the OS through trust and a really solid app store with a 10% transaction fee, and everyone lived happily ever after.
I bet it's the same universe where companies weren't decreted to exist mainly to make money.
I mean, people work for money, but money's a mean to satisfy our needs, few people work solely for it. If corporations are people, we raised them to be sociopaths.
My oscilloscope runs Windows 7 so I get a daily reminder how beautiful unencumbered Windows is. No ads, no layers of pig lipstick, and it's still snappy and crisp even though the machine is 13 years old. If it weren't for weird compatibility issues (Chrome complains IIRC), I'd run Windows 7 at home in a heartbeat.
Got that reminder a couple of months ago when doing a fresh 7 install on an old Core 2 Quad workstation laptop. It’s very clean and “quiet” compared to modern Windows, and though its visual style isn’t exactly fresh I don’t think it exactly looks dated either when used on good modern IPS panel monitor. It’s aged much better than XP did.
Wouldn’t ever dare to take that machine online but there’s no reason why it couldn’t serve as a unitasker of some kind.
7 really is the last relic from a lost time. I had to use an old 7 workstation and remembered how good it feels to search for a file in the Start Menu and not get a full page of bing search results, news and ads. Modern Windows has become a bizarre homunculus of all of the tech industry's worst instincts (adtech, endless scrolling news feeds, mass surveillance)
However, in this universe, Microsoft has the largest market cap on Earth. So I guess the choice between everyone living happily ever after and some people living happily ever after was clearly made.
"The reason why Windows 10 users aren't upgrading is that they already know what Windows 11 is capable of, and they've made the decision not to use it"
I'm not so sure about that. Maybe it's because the general populace has spent the past 30 years being trained, often with on-the-spot reinforcement, that popups and banners == viruses.
I don't think the average person on the street could tell you even one thing that "windows 11 is capable of". People do not use operating systems, they use apps.
For me, Windows 11 is synonymous with "lots of unwanted adverts". I don't like adverts, so I don't like Windows 11 - irrespective of whatever program I "want" to run on the OS.
I can run my Win10 box (when I absolutely must, because there's no equivalent to a Windows app) via MRD and it's ... not terrible. Downgrading it to 11 would make it even less attractive than it is now, so why would I do that ?
I don't care about support - the only driver for me to downgrade it to 11 would be if the application authors stopped writing for 10. So far, so good.
> I don't think the average person on the street could tell you even one thing that "windows 11 is capable of". People do not use operating systems, they use apps.
I can't even tell you which Windows is on my gaming laptop, much less what features separate it from other releases.
Off the top of my head (no cheating) I don't even know which new features have appeared in the last 5 versions of iOS and I develop for that and actually watch the WWDC videos. Even when deprecation warnings pop up in Xcode, they're utterly forgettable.
Normal users have even less reason to care about an OS than devs do.
I couldn't even tell you what Windows 11 is capable of. For my usage, windows has basically been the same feature experience since XP. UI changes, and annoyances, sure, but additional features? The only major change I have noticed and can recall since XP is WSL.
> “Microsoft is now rolling out two full-screen pop-up banners that remind everyone, including those with supported and unsupported PCs, to upgrade to Windows 11.”
We don't need repeated fucking full-screen reminders that Windows 11 exists. WE KNOW. Willy hears ya. Willy don't care[1].
Seriously, who's in charge here anymore? Shouldn't users get to decide what software they are running on their own computers? The user owns the computer, not Microsoft! If you publish software and users won't use it, stop and consider maybe you're wrong and not your users.
Rich from a company who, decades ago, asked "Where do -you- want to go today?" Today, it's more like "Where do -we- want to coerce you into going today?"
> Seriously, who's in charge here anymore? Shouldn't users get to decide what software they are running on their own computers?
You make it seem like this wasn't intentional. This came from the top and I expect there were a lot of people in the implementation path that did not like it. It's a feature not a bug.
I left Windows a long, long time ago. But, I will say that I think Microsoft is following Apple more here. Apple supports (with bug/security fixes) the last 3 major releases. Yeah, you can run an unsupported macOS forever (without ads for the newer one), but they don't go as far back as Microsoft ever did.
> But, I will say that I think Microsoft is following Apple more here.
Oh, yes. It's bad that the two biggest desktop OS vendors seem to be working in lock-step against user choice. Apple always seems to do it first, then Microsoft copies it in a more extreme, yet hamfisted way.
Apple also nags you to upgrade the OS, but they do it subtly, in a notification that is annoying but not that intrusive and it's dismissible. Microsoft barrels in and says "Hey, I wanna do that too!" but instead throws up trashy full-screen popups and "warnings" to the user (as if the user is a naughty puppy).
Apple really wants you to have an Apple ID, too, and has various subtle ways of reminding you just how much of a sad person you are for not having one. Microsoft then comes barreling in with "Hahah! We're going to FORCE you get a Microsoft ID, and require you to use it to log in to your own PC! Howbout that!?"
Well, exactly that. I was a Mac user, enforced by my employer at the time, and I did not quite like it but was ok with it. Would never pay for it, with the high price, though.
I use (soon to be used) Windows on my home PC since Windows 95. I really liked Windows 7. The free upgrade to Windows 10 was... underwhelming, to say the least. Windows 11 is ten times worse. So, yeah, the year of the Linux desktop arrived for me because Windows is now complete crap.
They should probably stop following Apple then. What makes sense for Apple doesn’t necessarily make sense for Microsoft and vice versa because they’re different companies.
I don’t even like Windows but definitely a solid advantage for customers was if Microsoft put out a release you didn’t want, you skipped it and maybe got the next one and that would be the signal to Microsoft “oh, damn, customers didn’t like this one”. Now it just reeks of desperation trying to force all their customers to upgrade to a release they don’t want, even if it is free.
> Yeah, you can run an unsupported macOS forever (without ads for the newer one)
Not if you want to do anything other than email and web.
Xcode and all the supporting utilities deprecate pretty fast. It doesn't take very long before your old Xcode can't be used to sign or install anything.
Yeah, Xcode has been the biggest driver of me upgrading my Macbook. Even still I managed to put it off for 8 years, but that's because I took a break from Xcode for several years.
In the process of migrating my 20+ years of data to Linux. Have been running it off a different disk for a year now.
My biggest concern was gaming but Steam really makes it work seamlessly. Lutrix/GOG is not as seamless but works well enough. Could be better but it works and the crap coming into Windows just pushed the final nail into the coffin. Will be retiring Windows forever in the next month.
Same. I've always been one to say that I like Windows and it never gave me trouble (apart from Windows ME), but I can't take this enshittification any more. I can't remember when the last time was I opened up the start menu and started typing something and reliably got the App I wanted and knew is installed (since I used it dozens of times already).
Gaming, which was always why Windows had to be installed on my desktop, has gotten quite stale lately so my Steam Deck and Anbernic devices have been a blast playing through some nostalgic retro games.
It's also quite interesting how stable and uneventful my time (almost 2 years now) with Linux Mint has been. I remember the time when I couldn't wait for new Windows versions to come out. Now? I never want a new one to ever come out again in favor of stability and predictability.
I did this two years ago and had a similar experience. This was on a custom desktop PC.
Windows doesnt play well with dual boot, so I had to literally detach the SATA cable to keep it from eating my GRUB bootloader partition.
I switched to using the System76 distribution Pop! OS, which bakes in GPU drivers (among other things). I used the rust-based Cosmic desktop, but that choice is a different discussion.
On Linux, I was able to run almost every single Windows game well on a Nvidia 3060.
Storage was easy, pretty much everything supports FAT reads at a bare minimum, NTFS is possible with the FUSE drivers that are package-installable.
Development was easy, multimonitor was easy, suspend was a little wonky on my hardware, sleep was great.
Bluetooth ended up taking some serious wrangling for usb devices, about that point is when cli chops come in handy. Wifi was natural if a bit clunky UI-side.
At least nice of them to start more than a year before, give time to advertise Win 10 Ltsc for those not wanting to switch (support should be until 2027).
Hasn't Microsoft done the exact same thing half a decade or so ago with windows 7?
I can't really feel sorry for windows users sorry. They have known the Microsoft rules for decades, has plenty of years to switch to other OS/vendors and decided to stick with it.
This is the first Windows upgrade I'm aware of that has a hardware requirement, because it needs TPM 2.0, which isn't included on all computer hardware. I would have upgraded by now but I literally can't without upgrading my hardware first. And my hardware is still in great shape and still very powerful (I'm still playing the latest games on my computer, often with high settings still), there's no reason for me to replace it except to let me get Windows 11, which is a crappy reason.
I seriously think this behavior is going to hurt MS in the long run. Even the least tech savvy people I know are starting to mumble about not owning anything anymore.
Why would I want to upgrade to 11? When I upgraded to 10 from 7 the OS was worse and only degraded over time. My relationship with Microsoft is now purely adversarial. If they want me to do it I know it is bad for me.
I only used Windows for games but recently had a game that I couldn’t make work on Windows but did work in Proton on Fedora. I haven’t booted my Windows partition since and will reclaim it when necessary.
Windows 11 removed the ability to pin the task bar to the side of the screen.
Dear Microsoft, I will not upgrade to Windows 11 until you restore your removed accessibility features. I have ADHD and a mid-view taskbar (i.e. on the side of one of the screens in between my two monitors) is a requirement for me to be able to use an operating system.
I've submitted numerous tickets, it's pretty clear providing a solid UX is low on their priority list.
You are not alone. Among other concerns, this is practically my greatest reason to not switch to win11 at home; professionally I use it but I would never choose it for my personal OS.
Supposedly, the win11 refactoring of the code base made it infeasible to allow. My hot take on this is if their code is now so unmanageable so as to disallow where a rectangular bar with some minimal interactions is positioned on the screen, it's time for me to get off of it wherever possible.
> a mid-view taskbar ... is a requirement for me to be able to use an operating system.
This part reduces the credibility of your request. You are actually unable to view a web page or start Excel if the task bar is not in your preferred space?
If you prefer it just imagine I said "'Cus I prefer it" - I do understand that the things that impact ADHD folks differ greatly from the rest of yall and I even am of the opinion that ADHD is probably too broad a grouping and it'd be more helpful if we had specific sub-groupings of different symptoms. For me, if I see a flicker at the edge of my vision my brain will hard dump whatever I'm working on to focus on that and it's extremely difficult for me to resume my work. Whether this is common to all ADHD folks, male ADHD folks, or just me - I don't have a clue... but it is something I've observed about myself over the decade I spent trying to work in busy office environments.
Having a side-docked taskbar is something I find genuinely helpful and I'd prefer that if they're going to take it away they give a compelling reason for it.
Visual stimuli in the edge of my field of view really distracts me - if I'm looking at a pair of computer monitors I want any movement or blinking that I'm not expecting to be in the center of my field of view so I can quickly dismiss it. If it's at the edge of my field of view it (i.e. at the top or bottom of my screen) when I focus on it I'll be looking further away from my active work and it is more likely to drop me out of focus.
There is a case that it should have moved to the side, as a default. There’s more horizontal space than vertical space on every display. So if you need to put something somewhere, put it where you have extra room.
I don't think this will ever happen as it seems that most of Windows team is busy with putting Copilot in every nook and corner of Windows and others are busy migrating every GUI to WinUI3.
Not me. When Win 10 goes out of support, I'll have a nice, pretty darn modern (all things considered) (yet another) Linux box. And I'll happily pick up any other computer artificially deprecated by Microsoft too.
Oh neat, yeah my most modern desktop PC is i5-4590k, so that's cool. Forced obsolescence is one of my biggest complaints towards modern tech vendors. Ah well, needless to say that 4590 is my last Windows machine. I have one Mac, and the rest of my machines are Linux and OpenBSD. I'm done with proprietary OSes all around.
The weirdest thing is that Windows 11 iot ltsc (that just released) has no tpm or modern cpu requirements. Only sse 4.2 so basically any intel cpu named core ix-.
> I'll just keep running Windows 10 until I literally can't.
That's what people and companies said about Win NT. And Win 98. And Win XP. And Win 7.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
The results this time will be same as it was for users last time. Or you finally give up on the abusive practices of this vendor, and use something that respects your efforts and choices. But, there are still a TON of older hardware running those older OSes. Security and software updates be dammed.
Same here with a i5-4570. Despite being ten years old (except for an SSD upgrade six years ago), in comparison a current mid-range PC is only 2-2.5 times as fast in single-core performance, and you don’t really feel that for office-style work and web browsing.
The minimum CPU for Windows 11 is 8th gen so 4th gen (10 years old) is definitely not supported. I owned a 4790K myself and it served me well but it's time to move on. The cheapest 14100 is faster and uses less power.
I wouldn't normally comment on the site functionality, but there is literally zero article content on the page for me, except the headline. I'm using Firefox with "Strict" privacy settings, and this causes the article content not to load correctly. Of course the page is completely laden with ads and whatnot. Web devs: can we please standardize on gracefully handling load failures on non-essential scripts (like when your ad/tracking library didn't load)?
This is Forbes gracefully telling you that if you won't take their ads, then they don't want to give you their sloppy resummarization of someone else's article.
Also, lol:
Microsoft: Windows 11 is an essential update to Windows 10
Forbes: Ads are an essential part of our articles
A couple of people I know are still on Windows 7 as their main driver, due to the degraded experience on the newer versions. Including, to my initial surprise, a security researcher, and not for security-research purposes. Attack vectors nowadays are almost exclusively through email attachments or getting users to click on malware links. I predict that those staying on Windows 10 will be about as safe as these Windows 7 users.
I have a perfectly good gaming computer that plays every modern video game out there with quite good graphics (RTX 2070 Super), but because bought it slightly too early for it to come with their security requirements, it won't install Windows 11 on it until I buy new hardware. I bought the computer in May 2021 also, it's only three years old.
Got my laptop in November 2021 and it was able to install Windows 11 (but came with Windows 10), so my computer must have been bought just before the hardware cutoff.
That's the only reason I haven't upgraded to Windows 11 yet. For all other Windows upgrades it's only been I couldn't install it because that computer was ancient. Feels dumb that I'm going to be forced to upgrade a 4 year old computer just to get security updates.
it's not due to some arbitrary cut-off date, it's that windows 11 requires TPM 2.0. It's likely that your PC just either lacks a motherboard that supports a firmware TPM on AMD CPUs, or is just missing a TPM module. Accordingly, I've prevented my system from being auto-upgraded to 11 by just disabling my system's TPM.
Yeah I know it's because of TPM. But presumably at some point computer manufacturers added TPM to their motherboard/CPUs to be able to say they have or can upgrade to Windows 11.
Not saying there's a definite time cutoff, just generally speaking it seems like somewhere around there more computers started including the TPM capabilities.
Still three years isn't that long. I'd hate to have to trash my motherboard and/or CPU just to get security updates.
Yep, turns out it wasn't enabled in the BIOS. Discovered this myself when I clicked the more info today after getting the 'You don't have TPM on this device' from the Windows PC Health Check. That was really confusing. I definitely thought I didn't even have it on my hardware from its messaging the first time around (and even the second time around I wasn't sure until I went through the instructions and checked all the menus on the BIOS).
So if I got confused and thought I didn't have it on my computer, probably many, many other people less tech savvy than me were similarly confused (or just wouldn't bother. BIOS changes can be weird and scary anyway, Windows couldn't even give good instructions on that part because BIOS menus tend to be pretty different).
Not true. I have a PC (Dell OptiPlex 7040 SFF) with TPM 2.0 and a CPU (i7-6700) that's definitely not on the supported CPU list, which, for Intel Core CPUs, seems to literally be "number greater than or equal to 8000".
If this is not true, what CPU features do the supported ix-8xxx "Kaby Lake R" and "Kaby Lake G" processors have that the unsupported ix-7xxx "Kaby Lake" processors lack?
The fact that the current supported CPU list for Windows 7[1] excludes all fourth generation and earlier Intel Core CPUs leads me to believe that these lists aren't derived from feature requirements alone, unless Windows 7 requires features that first became available with CPUs released in 2014.
It doesn't require tpm as proved by windows 11 iot ltsc not havig that requirement. That version doesn't even have the arbitrary cpu requirement except for needing sse 4.2
For what it's worth, I've been running Windows 11 full-time on both Skylake ("sixth generation") and Ivy Bridge-EP ("third generation") systems without issue, though not for gaming.
Assuming your system meets all other Windows 11 system requirements (TPM 2.0, etc.), you should have no problem installing Windows 11. You'll have to download it yourself and trigger the upgrade manually (mount the ISO and run "setup.exe"), and click through a warning message, but AFAIK no other workarounds are required.
Whether doing so is advisable depends on your appetite for risk, but I'd personally be more worried about application developers than Microsoft when it comes to breaking changes in the future: Windows 11 updates have to remain compatible with every CPU on the supported list*; new applications and version upgrades have no similar requirements.
* AFAIK, this does not necessarily apply to new Windows 11 versions, though even here, I'd expect fewer breaking changes than with applications and games that typically have stricter CPU requirements to begin with.
The only reason I use windows is for gaming, and I’m trying to figure out how to switch away as soon as possible. Unfortunately, I do sim racing, so it’ll be hard to get the peripherals working properly. I’m really sick of Microsoft lately with this stuff, they’re definitely run by the MBAs now.
Idk I just installed Debian on a new laptop and installed Steam and had to ask my friends, how do I turn on Proton to get more of my games to run? I figured it was complicated... It was a checkbox O_O
Edit: but yeah, peripherals will be the tricky part
There is no need for distro wars here. What works for you is not necessarily what works for someone else, and none of them are _literally_ the best OS ever. Just because Debian and family have been around for a long time, doesn't mean they're outdated - and believe me it's not personal bias: I choose Arch for myself.
I think you’re right and nobody really wants to hear it but here goes: Fedora works the best on laptop computers which are the overwhelming majority of regular people’s personal computers at home, and the only reason it can work so well is because of the work that went into systemd to get it where it is today. So much stuff is considered, even down to swap strategy for modern computers with solid-state drives, that Fedora should probably be crowned “least-worst distro” for ex-Windows users.
If there was an effort to get them all on one, either gnome or kde (probably kde for ex-windows users tho) it would do wonders for Linux overall, and maybe 2025 is the year of the Linux Desktop with Win10 EOL.
(I don’t even like it, or systemd really, but it’s a necessary ‘evil’ to have it backed by some sort of commercial entity as well)
What a nonsense !
I bet you have no or little idea about Debian family.
Debian stable is rock solid but doesn't have the most up-to-date software.
Debian Sid and Testing both have very up-to-date software.
It is your choice and you decide what you want.
Kernel-level anti-cheat does not work in Linux and I think that is a good thing. Should you really trust some random game company to have essentially root/admin on your computer? They are not a very trustworthy group of people...
If you can't detect cheating in user space or with traditional telemetry I don't want to play your game. I refuse to run kernel-level anti-cheat.
They are good games and I want to play them, but I agree it does not work in Linux, and more generally, it simply does not work at all. Play any game with kernel level anti-cheat and you will find lobby after lobby full of cheaters.
Not everyone is into games. Although I agree with the criticism here, there's at least two areas where comparable software simply does not exist on Linux/BSD:
a) Spreadsheets. Not talking about simple stuff here, Libre/OpenOffice is a joke when it comes to more advanced stuff, and whether we like it or not, the world is literally running on spreadsheets. Google Sheets is okay for less demanding tasks, Apps Script is a huge plus of that platform.
b) 2D graphics and photography software. Adobe CS is unfortunately still irreplaceable, even 20 years later. Again, I'm talking about professional graphic design and photography work (and workflows). Yes, there are masochists trying to do DTP on Linux. Yes, people think AI will replace those jobs. Neither will happen in the foreseeable future. Take typography as an example of such a highly specialized craft. Which is why Adobe (and some others) can afford to be so damn aggressive with their policies.
Wine doesn't cut it. I often wonder if anybody really uses it for anything except messing around.
Hence the only solid alternative is macOS.
On the other hand, all this also means opportunities... :)
My desktop has a 16-core Threadripper 1st Gen and I have zero reason to upgrade the hardware outside of "Microsoft refuses to let me upgrade the software".
Yes, I know you can force an unsupported upgrade, but I'm absolutely waiting for the other shoe to drop. Microsoft absolutely will start deactivating Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, mark my words.
Why?
It's simple: Windows 11 exists to force you to buy new hardware. While Windows is technically a retail product, nobody buys it. That's why they dropped the charade of upgrade copies and made Windows 10 a free update. Everyone buys Windows with their PC anyway, so the only way Microsoft gets more money out of Windows is if they make people upgrade their PCs more often so they buy more OEM licenses.
We've already seen with the whole local account debacle[0] and Edge[1] that Microsoft will do anything to users if they think they'll make a buck somewhere down the line. I could totally see Microsoft just saying the quiet part out loud, changing their EULA to make running Windows on unsupported hardware a form of piracy.
[0] To be clear, I like Microsoft account sign-in.
[1] Man, I remember when Edge came out. It was actually good but needed some polish. Then they switched to Chromium and somehow enshittified it more.
I remember when I was switching from Windows to Linux over 15 years ago. There were a couple of failures because I found the curve very steep. Then I came across Zorin OS (Linux distro with Windows UX) and that took all the transitional pain away. Used it for a few months before moving again to Kubuntu, which is where I'm happily at today. Can recommend a similar path for anyone else having such transitional issues.
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[ 6.0 ms ] story [ 110 ms ] threadIn the meantime, they told me in 2015 that Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,
"Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10" [1]. That came from a Microsoft employee, was widely reported, and not corrected; so it may not have been an official statement, but it's not like it came from nowhere. My plan is still to move to FreeBSD on the desktop once Windows 10 is dead; but we'll see what happens to my plan when it comes time to actually do it.
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-ve...
https://woshub.com/upgrade-windows-10-edition-without-reinst...
On this Windows edition I haven't seen any nudges to upgrade to 11.
There's even a "curl $URL | sh"-esque command to get Windows activated, hosted on Microsoft's own Github: https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
Somehow I find this even more disgusting than Recall.
I mean, people work for money, but money's a mean to satisfy our needs, few people work solely for it. If corporations are people, we raised them to be sociopaths.
Wouldn’t ever dare to take that machine online but there’s no reason why it couldn’t serve as a unitasker of some kind.
I'm not so sure about that. Maybe it's because the general populace has spent the past 30 years being trained, often with on-the-spot reinforcement, that popups and banners == viruses.
I don't think the average person on the street could tell you even one thing that "windows 11 is capable of". People do not use operating systems, they use apps.
I can run my Win10 box (when I absolutely must, because there's no equivalent to a Windows app) via MRD and it's ... not terrible. Downgrading it to 11 would make it even less attractive than it is now, so why would I do that ?
I don't care about support - the only driver for me to downgrade it to 11 would be if the application authors stopped writing for 10. So far, so good.
(I don't really know about 11, I guess my VM has an incompatible disk partitioning.)
I can't even tell you which Windows is on my gaming laptop, much less what features separate it from other releases.
Off the top of my head (no cheating) I don't even know which new features have appeared in the last 5 versions of iOS and I develop for that and actually watch the WWDC videos. Even when deprecation warnings pop up in Xcode, they're utterly forgettable.
Normal users have even less reason to care about an OS than devs do.
Microsoft is essentially selling it on the basis of apps, so it's not surprising people are taking that attitude: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11
I wonder how it is doing relative to previous releases.
We don't need repeated fucking full-screen reminders that Windows 11 exists. WE KNOW. Willy hears ya. Willy don't care[1].
Seriously, who's in charge here anymore? Shouldn't users get to decide what software they are running on their own computers? The user owns the computer, not Microsoft! If you publish software and users won't use it, stop and consider maybe you're wrong and not your users.
Rich from a company who, decades ago, asked "Where do -you- want to go today?" Today, it's more like "Where do -we- want to coerce you into going today?"
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqfupnpUOoA
You make it seem like this wasn't intentional. This came from the top and I expect there were a lot of people in the implementation path that did not like it. It's a feature not a bug.
I left Windows a long, long time ago. But, I will say that I think Microsoft is following Apple more here. Apple supports (with bug/security fixes) the last 3 major releases. Yeah, you can run an unsupported macOS forever (without ads for the newer one), but they don't go as far back as Microsoft ever did.
Oh, yes. It's bad that the two biggest desktop OS vendors seem to be working in lock-step against user choice. Apple always seems to do it first, then Microsoft copies it in a more extreme, yet hamfisted way.
Apple also nags you to upgrade the OS, but they do it subtly, in a notification that is annoying but not that intrusive and it's dismissible. Microsoft barrels in and says "Hey, I wanna do that too!" but instead throws up trashy full-screen popups and "warnings" to the user (as if the user is a naughty puppy).
Apple really wants you to have an Apple ID, too, and has various subtle ways of reminding you just how much of a sad person you are for not having one. Microsoft then comes barreling in with "Hahah! We're going to FORCE you get a Microsoft ID, and require you to use it to log in to your own PC! Howbout that!?"
I use (soon to be used) Windows on my home PC since Windows 95. I really liked Windows 7. The free upgrade to Windows 10 was... underwhelming, to say the least. Windows 11 is ten times worse. So, yeah, the year of the Linux desktop arrived for me because Windows is now complete crap.
I don’t even like Windows but definitely a solid advantage for customers was if Microsoft put out a release you didn’t want, you skipped it and maybe got the next one and that would be the signal to Microsoft “oh, damn, customers didn’t like this one”. Now it just reeks of desperation trying to force all their customers to upgrade to a release they don’t want, even if it is free.
Not if you want to do anything other than email and web.
Xcode and all the supporting utilities deprecate pretty fast. It doesn't take very long before your old Xcode can't be used to sign or install anything.
My biggest concern was gaming but Steam really makes it work seamlessly. Lutrix/GOG is not as seamless but works well enough. Could be better but it works and the crap coming into Windows just pushed the final nail into the coffin. Will be retiring Windows forever in the next month.
Gaming, which was always why Windows had to be installed on my desktop, has gotten quite stale lately so my Steam Deck and Anbernic devices have been a blast playing through some nostalgic retro games.
It's also quite interesting how stable and uneventful my time (almost 2 years now) with Linux Mint has been. I remember the time when I couldn't wait for new Windows versions to come out. Now? I never want a new one to ever come out again in favor of stability and predictability.
Windows doesnt play well with dual boot, so I had to literally detach the SATA cable to keep it from eating my GRUB bootloader partition.
I switched to using the System76 distribution Pop! OS, which bakes in GPU drivers (among other things). I used the rust-based Cosmic desktop, but that choice is a different discussion.
On Linux, I was able to run almost every single Windows game well on a Nvidia 3060.
Storage was easy, pretty much everything supports FAT reads at a bare minimum, NTFS is possible with the FUSE drivers that are package-installable.
Development was easy, multimonitor was easy, suspend was a little wonky on my hardware, sleep was great.
Bluetooth ended up taking some serious wrangling for usb devices, about that point is when cli chops come in handy. Wifi was natural if a bit clunky UI-side.
All that said, they're still in early days, YMMV.
I can't really feel sorry for windows users sorry. They have known the Microsoft rules for decades, has plenty of years to switch to other OS/vendors and decided to stick with it.
I only used Windows for games but recently had a game that I couldn’t make work on Windows but did work in Proton on Fedora. I haven’t booted my Windows partition since and will reclaim it when necessary.
Dear Microsoft, I will not upgrade to Windows 11 until you restore your removed accessibility features. I have ADHD and a mid-view taskbar (i.e. on the side of one of the screens in between my two monitors) is a requirement for me to be able to use an operating system.
I've submitted numerous tickets, it's pretty clear providing a solid UX is low on their priority list.
It is a conscious decision, not an accident
This part reduces the credibility of your request. You are actually unable to view a web page or start Excel if the task bar is not in your preferred space?
Having a side-docked taskbar is something I find genuinely helpful and I'd prefer that if they're going to take it away they give a compelling reason for it.
She probably wouldn't mind upgrading to windows 11, but she can't because MS decided that you must have TPM.
Windows 10 will be EOL in a year.
These companies will bs you about how eco friendly they are, but they expect you to throw a perfectly fine computer into the trash.
Which is enough time to find a Linux distro + DE/WM/theme I can live with and get Proton/WINE setup.
That's what people and companies said about Win NT. And Win 98. And Win XP. And Win 7.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
The results this time will be same as it was for users last time. Or you finally give up on the abusive practices of this vendor, and use something that respects your efforts and choices. But, there are still a TON of older hardware running those older OSes. Security and software updates be dammed.
Windows 10 actually breathed new life into some older PCs. Sad to see them cut compatibility so suddenly and without significant advantages.
Also, lol: Microsoft: Windows 11 is an essential update to Windows 10 Forbes: Ads are an essential part of our articles
Microsoft's full-screen reminders – upgrade to Windows 11 are back
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40564987
Got my laptop in November 2021 and it was able to install Windows 11 (but came with Windows 10), so my computer must have been bought just before the hardware cutoff.
That's the only reason I haven't upgraded to Windows 11 yet. For all other Windows upgrades it's only been I couldn't install it because that computer was ancient. Feels dumb that I'm going to be forced to upgrade a 4 year old computer just to get security updates.
Not saying there's a definite time cutoff, just generally speaking it seems like somewhere around there more computers started including the TPM capabilities.
Still three years isn't that long. I'd hate to have to trash my motherboard and/or CPU just to get security updates.
So if I got confused and thought I didn't have it on my computer, probably many, many other people less tech savvy than me were similarly confused (or just wouldn't bother. BIOS changes can be weird and scary anyway, Windows couldn't even give good instructions on that part because BIOS menus tend to be pretty different).
If this is not true, what CPU features do the supported ix-8xxx "Kaby Lake R" and "Kaby Lake G" processors have that the unsupported ix-7xxx "Kaby Lake" processors lack?
The fact that the current supported CPU list for Windows 7[1] excludes all fourth generation and earlier Intel Core CPUs leads me to believe that these lists aren't derived from feature requirements alone, unless Windows 7 requires features that first became available with CPUs released in 2014.
[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/mi...
Assuming your system meets all other Windows 11 system requirements (TPM 2.0, etc.), you should have no problem installing Windows 11. You'll have to download it yourself and trigger the upgrade manually (mount the ISO and run "setup.exe"), and click through a warning message, but AFAIK no other workarounds are required.
Whether doing so is advisable depends on your appetite for risk, but I'd personally be more worried about application developers than Microsoft when it comes to breaking changes in the future: Windows 11 updates have to remain compatible with every CPU on the supported list*; new applications and version upgrades have no similar requirements.
* AFAIK, this does not necessarily apply to new Windows 11 versions, though even here, I'd expect fewer breaking changes than with applications and games that typically have stricter CPU requirements to begin with.
Of all the downgrades when 'upgrading' to Win11, this one bothers me the most.
Edit: but yeah, peripherals will be the tricky part
At some point Windows users need to wake up and stop being willfully ignorant of the perfectly viable alternative.
The easiest way to get someone to go back to M$ is to tell people to use an outdated linux distro.
Fedora/OpenSUSE are literally the best OS ever. Better across the board.
If there was an effort to get them all on one, either gnome or kde (probably kde for ex-windows users tho) it would do wonders for Linux overall, and maybe 2025 is the year of the Linux Desktop with Win10 EOL.
(I don’t even like it, or systemd really, but it’s a necessary ‘evil’ to have it backed by some sort of commercial entity as well)
If you can't detect cheating in user space or with traditional telemetry I don't want to play your game. I refuse to run kernel-level anti-cheat.
a) Spreadsheets. Not talking about simple stuff here, Libre/OpenOffice is a joke when it comes to more advanced stuff, and whether we like it or not, the world is literally running on spreadsheets. Google Sheets is okay for less demanding tasks, Apps Script is a huge plus of that platform.
b) 2D graphics and photography software. Adobe CS is unfortunately still irreplaceable, even 20 years later. Again, I'm talking about professional graphic design and photography work (and workflows). Yes, there are masochists trying to do DTP on Linux. Yes, people think AI will replace those jobs. Neither will happen in the foreseeable future. Take typography as an example of such a highly specialized craft. Which is why Adobe (and some others) can afford to be so damn aggressive with their policies.
Wine doesn't cut it. I often wonder if anybody really uses it for anything except messing around.
Hence the only solid alternative is macOS.
On the other hand, all this also means opportunities... :)
Yes, I know you can force an unsupported upgrade, but I'm absolutely waiting for the other shoe to drop. Microsoft absolutely will start deactivating Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, mark my words.
Why?
It's simple: Windows 11 exists to force you to buy new hardware. While Windows is technically a retail product, nobody buys it. That's why they dropped the charade of upgrade copies and made Windows 10 a free update. Everyone buys Windows with their PC anyway, so the only way Microsoft gets more money out of Windows is if they make people upgrade their PCs more often so they buy more OEM licenses.
We've already seen with the whole local account debacle[0] and Edge[1] that Microsoft will do anything to users if they think they'll make a buck somewhere down the line. I could totally see Microsoft just saying the quiet part out loud, changing their EULA to make running Windows on unsupported hardware a form of piracy.
[0] To be clear, I like Microsoft account sign-in.
[1] Man, I remember when Edge came out. It was actually good but needed some polish. Then they switched to Chromium and somehow enshittified it more.