Does anyone else feel struck with a sense of shameful naivety when you discover (as I just did now) that your beloved local whatever store is actually a nationwide chain?
If H Mart can open a larger store with bigger selection and better prices than a small independent store, then that's great. I don't know whether you mean there's shame in shopping at a chain or shame in not realizing it's a chain, but I promise that both are unnecessary.
Necessary or not, ignorance revealed induces shame in people. I recently had a similar experience with a coffee shop: felt like I'd discovered something cool in a foreign locale, and then learned that it wasn't a hole in the wall but an international chain. Perhaps shame isn't the right word. Because, as I reread what I've written, I'm describing a perceived loss of exclusivity. The feeling of being ordinary, when one once felt special.
I wish curry leaves in particular were more commonly available at common grocery stores: ingredients like tumeric, thai basil, and lemongrass now often are, but hardly ever curry leaves.
TIL: I didn't even know curry leaves were a thing. I've only seen curry pastes and didn't think where they came from. There's way more info about what makes each different.
It's an unfortunate mix up - curry leaves and curry powder/paste are different things.
Curry leaves are just the aromatic leaves of a bush like plant used primarily in south Indian cooking much like basil in Italian or makrut lime leaves in Thai cuisine.
Curry pastes and powders are mixtures of spices: turmeric, cumin, coriander, fennel, mustard seeds, asafoetida, black pepper, cloves etc. Every region and family has their own blend of spices.
Curry leaves are usually used to make a "tadka" which is oil, mustard seed and other dried spices and curry leaves are heated up and then poured over a cooked dish like dal or sambar where it briefly sizzles and adds some flavor and aroma. You will also see it in some Indian fried snack packages.
> It's an unfortunate mix up - curry leaves and curry powder/paste are different things.
Reminds me of buying "chili powder" from an Asian grocery and getting powdered chiles instead. The resulting pot of chili was very bland and way too hot at the same time.
In the US, it's a spice mix for cooking chili. (AKA "chili con carne," a popular meaty, spicy stew.) Chili powder has a bit of cayenne but mostly cumin, paprika, garlic powder, onion powder, etc.
I can imagine it being different outside the US, but this store was in Seattle so you can see my confusion.
I made the opposite mistake when I first moved to the US (: the bottle of chili powder sat in my pantry for years, being used for the very occasional pot of chili.
You should be able to find the fresh leaves in small bags at Indian grocery stores in the U.S. In California, you can also purchase plants (they grow very slowly the first 3-4 years) in pots and survive mild CA winters.
You can have it in colder climates too, just make sure to move it indoors before the frost hits. It will lose all its leaves during the winter (you can cut the leaves and freeze them for winter) but the leaves come back in spring to summer.
almost no one I know over here grows their own (also the time I tried I found them very hard to keep alive in san francisco). but I've also always lived in places with a lot of Indian stores that had them readily available, plus they keep forever in the freezer so it's easy to stock up on.
A Patel Brothers opened near my house. I, whiter than Wonder Bread, wandered in to see what they had. I went to the back where they had snacks and baked goods. I wanted to try something but the employee warned me that it would be quite spicy and steered me to some somosas.
There's a lot of things that I have no idea what they are but also a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables. The place is big.
Of all the ways I'd describe a samosa... spicy isn't the word I'd choose? They're so good except for the peas. Why oh why do they always sneak in peas?
I'd try some chicken 65 and biryani if they have fresh food for purchase.
I have no idea why Indian snacks haven't taken the US market by storm. Yes, they can be spicy. But a lot of people like spicy (and they have differnt levels of spicy so it's not all mouth-burning). I look forward to a future where every gas station and truck stop in America has bags of Indian snacks.
American food culture grows one fad at a time so you just have to wait until a few food influencers make some viral videos about the snacks and it’ll take off from there.
There’s just so much unique cuisine in the world and we’re all fat enough already :-)
American culture has Ghost Pepper potato chips, Sriracha potato chips, Flaming Hot Cheetos, Jalepeno chips, etc.. so it's not like spicy stuff isn't already being sold all over the place. I too look forward to more variety. Although seeing a chips isle at most supermarkets being an entire row at the supermarket, it's already out of control
>> It's crazy how much cheaper H Mart is for fish than something like Safeway in the bay area.
I go to Patel Brothers for stuff like cilantro. The costs are so low they seem free, the herbs are fresher, and the bunches are huge. Same story for other key items like Mangos.
However, it isnt the best for everything. I have just developed a mental hash-table of what to get from which store {HMart/etc vs ShopRite vs Trader Joes vs Costco}.
Picked up an 8 pack of these huge boneless pork chops and a 4lb tray of really good Mac 'n Cheese there last week for $25 total. Fed our family of 4 twice, so a little over $3 per meal. Meanwhile, burgers/fries/drinks X 4 at Shake Shack is $80, over $100 if you actually get shakes too.
There's Nijiya Market, the Japanese grocery chain. The SF bay area has several locations. Good for bento boxes. They also have the good Pocky, from Japan, not the version made in Thailand for the US market.
(US bento boxes are amusing. There's a chain restaurant near me which offers them, but they're super-sized, the size of a cafeteria tray.)
My family is from Iran, and I always appreciate that stores like H-Mart and Lotte stock hard-to-find ingredients outside of Korean cooking staples. They are our go-to for large quantities of fresh mint/parsley/cilantro/tarragon, fresh fenugreek, fresh fava beans in the pod, cardamom, yellow split peas, and more. A dedicated persian grocery store can be hard to find, and many don't carry certain fresh ingredients.
It's also a joy to wander around and discover new foods from all over the world - fresh lychee, frozen puffed tofu, salted puffed mung beans, and soursop juice are all things I only got to try because of H-Mart or Lotte. Their seafood selection is also incredible.
The H-Mart in our area (Burlington Mass) is no longer the bargain that it once was in certain product areas. We noticed some of the chilled Korean cooked food was subdivided into smaller packages even as prices have risen. Seafood such as uncut sushi fish and fish roe as well as whole fish are also a lot more pricey.
Fortunately, we have alternatives, including really good Vietnamese markets in Dorchester and the Patel Bros in Waltham Mass -- still very old school, very cheap for produce, and lots of really special things you can't get elsewhere.
Early in the pandemic my partner and I decided that, since we couldn't actually travel anywhere interesting any more, we'd instead do our weekly shop at a different international supermarket every week.
We live in the San Francisco Bay Area so there are a LOT of international supermarkets!
We found Indian, Mexican, South American, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Middle Eastern - but my favourite ended up being the Korean Kukje supermarket in Daly City.
Eventually we realized that the trick is to go with at least one recipe in mind, which turns it into a more structured effort to find those ingredients (and then impulse buy lots of other interesting things).
It seems like a micro-agression (not sure what word to use) that Safeway, Lucky's, Vons, etc are "grocery stores" but 99 Ranch, K-Mart, Pacific Supermarket are "Asian Grocery stores". Effectively, you're "normal" if you go to a "grocery store" but you're abnormal if you go to an "asian grocery store".
I think they should rename/reclassify the "mostly based on European culture groceries stores" as something a little less "this is the norm".
This is especially true in majority Asian areas since going to Safeway, Lucky's, Vons, etc is probably not the norm.
And, even though I know there will be lots of downvotes, it sure would be nice to hear some argument for why this doesn't matter. It's effectively telling people they're foreigners. If you weren't a foreigner you'd go to the "grocery store" but because you're not really part of here you go to an "asian grocery store". It's pretty clear, at least to me, the one of those is considered the "norm" and other the exception and it follows there's a judgement there.
American food is most similar to european food, but is still distinct. "Default" grocery stores in america are focused on american food, not european food. I don't think it's problematic that american food is considered the norm.
You just spit on every American that doesn't eat that food. Wow!
"American food" is what Americans eat. There are plenty of American's that don't eat the food from "Default grocery stores". You comment can be summed up as "if you don't eat the same foods as from "default" grocery stores you're not really American"
"American food" is in this context is a specific cuisine that includes things like cold cereal, eggs, bacon, sandwiches, hamburgers, chicken wings, apple pie, and much more. Of course americans can still eat other food, but that doesn't make other food American food, it's only food eaten in america. If an italian eats sushi, does that make sushi Italian food? Of course not.
These classic American foods tended to be the most commonly eaten things in years past, so American grocery stores tended to carry groceries for those dishes. They were the most common type of grocery store by a massive margin, and they are the type of grocery store that sells the cuisine of the country in which they reside, so they are just called "grocery stores". In italy, do italians call the store that sells tomato sauce and spaghetti an Italian grocery store? Of course not, it's just The Grocery Store.
If alice thinks bob is less american for shopping at an asian grocery store, the problem lies with alice, not with the society that makes a distinction between "default" and asian grocery stores.
The whole issue is about defining "default". In the 1950s maybe the food that Safeway/Luckys/Vons carried was "default". It's arguably not in 2024, at least not in 40-50% of LA/OC and SF Bay Area
At some point you have to recognize that society and the general makeup of the population has changed and re-word things. We went from policeman to police officer to acknowledge that it's not just men who are police. Same with Stewardess vs Flight Attendant. We should be doing the same here and not define some "default" that excludes so much of the population.
I'm not sure this is the case? A few things to consider:
- Everyone I know of any cultural background says they're going to the "grocery store" by default, even if they're going to H Mart or whatever. If they're specific about going to a Mexican/Asian/etc store, it's because they're looking for stuff not easily found elsewhere.
- Many are very proud of their culture's cuisine, and are more than happy to make a distinction. They don't feel "othered" for it.
- Big box stores absolutely tailor their stock to the demographics around them. A Safeway or a Costco in the Bay Area isn't the same as one Eugene, OR. What's considered "normal" in one area is not the same as another.
Not my experience. Everyone I know is not happy to be "othered". Oh, you're not really American. You've got slanted eyes. Oh, you're not really American, you eat rice instead of bread. Oh, you're not really American. You shop at those "Asian" groceries stores instead of those "American" groceries stores.
What you're describing is just xenophobia, and that certainly a problem with some people, but not everyone, especially not in areas that have high enough demand for specialized stores. Making distinction of different cuisines is not that.
"American grocery stores" also cater to the demographics around them. For example, Safeways in the Bay Area carry all the staples necessary to make Mexican food despite being an "American" grocery store.
I have both H Mart and Patel Brothers near me. While Patel Brothers is newer in my area and has only been around a few years, H Mart has been a staple for over a decade of shopping. Some items are cheaper, and some items are not sold at the trading US supermarkets.
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[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 137 ms ] threadCurry leaves are just the aromatic leaves of a bush like plant used primarily in south Indian cooking much like basil in Italian or makrut lime leaves in Thai cuisine.
Curry pastes and powders are mixtures of spices: turmeric, cumin, coriander, fennel, mustard seeds, asafoetida, black pepper, cloves etc. Every region and family has their own blend of spices.
https://www.seriouseats.com/what-is-tadka-tarka-chaunk-chhon...
Reminds me of buying "chili powder" from an Asian grocery and getting powdered chiles instead. The resulting pot of chili was very bland and way too hot at the same time.
Over here it's always just chillis.
I can imagine it being different outside the US, but this store was in Seattle so you can see my confusion.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry_tree
see the section Distribution and habitat.
There's a lot of things that I have no idea what they are but also a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables. The place is big.
I'd try some chicken 65 and biryani if they have fresh food for purchase.
This means the clerk was suggesting samosas because they're not spicy.
There’s just so much unique cuisine in the world and we’re all fat enough already :-)
Which is why having mung bean-based snacks (like some of the Indian snacks) would be a nice change.
> American culture has Ghost Pepper potato chips, Sriracha potato chips, Flaming Hot Cheetos, Jalepeno chips, etc..
Which is why I think there's a lot of potential for Indian snacks in the US.
I go to Patel Brothers for stuff like cilantro. The costs are so low they seem free, the herbs are fresher, and the bunches are huge. Same story for other key items like Mangos.
However, it isnt the best for everything. I have just developed a mental hash-table of what to get from which store {HMart/etc vs ShopRite vs Trader Joes vs Costco}.
Picked up an 8 pack of these huge boneless pork chops and a 4lb tray of really good Mac 'n Cheese there last week for $25 total. Fed our family of 4 twice, so a little over $3 per meal. Meanwhile, burgers/fries/drinks X 4 at Shake Shack is $80, over $100 if you actually get shakes too.
(US bento boxes are amusing. There's a chain restaurant near me which offers them, but they're super-sized, the size of a cafeteria tray.)
It's also a joy to wander around and discover new foods from all over the world - fresh lychee, frozen puffed tofu, salted puffed mung beans, and soursop juice are all things I only got to try because of H-Mart or Lotte. Their seafood selection is also incredible.
Fortunately, we have alternatives, including really good Vietnamese markets in Dorchester and the Patel Bros in Waltham Mass -- still very old school, very cheap for produce, and lots of really special things you can't get elsewhere.
We live in the San Francisco Bay Area so there are a LOT of international supermarkets!
We found Indian, Mexican, South American, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Middle Eastern - but my favourite ended up being the Korean Kukje supermarket in Daly City.
Eventually we realized that the trick is to go with at least one recipe in mind, which turns it into a more structured effort to find those ingredients (and then impulse buy lots of other interesting things).
How it ended: (a basket full of Korean snacks, random side dishes, drinks, ingredients for other dishes that I can’t make well)
It seems like a micro-agression (not sure what word to use) that Safeway, Lucky's, Vons, etc are "grocery stores" but 99 Ranch, K-Mart, Pacific Supermarket are "Asian Grocery stores". Effectively, you're "normal" if you go to a "grocery store" but you're abnormal if you go to an "asian grocery store".
I think they should rename/reclassify the "mostly based on European culture groceries stores" as something a little less "this is the norm".
This is especially true in majority Asian areas since going to Safeway, Lucky's, Vons, etc is probably not the norm.
https://bestneighborhood.org/race-in-san-francisco-ca/
And, even though I know there will be lots of downvotes, it sure would be nice to hear some argument for why this doesn't matter. It's effectively telling people they're foreigners. If you weren't a foreigner you'd go to the "grocery store" but because you're not really part of here you go to an "asian grocery store". It's pretty clear, at least to me, the one of those is considered the "norm" and other the exception and it follows there's a judgement there.
"American food" is what Americans eat. There are plenty of American's that don't eat the food from "Default grocery stores". You comment can be summed up as "if you don't eat the same foods as from "default" grocery stores you're not really American"
These classic American foods tended to be the most commonly eaten things in years past, so American grocery stores tended to carry groceries for those dishes. They were the most common type of grocery store by a massive margin, and they are the type of grocery store that sells the cuisine of the country in which they reside, so they are just called "grocery stores". In italy, do italians call the store that sells tomato sauce and spaghetti an Italian grocery store? Of course not, it's just The Grocery Store.
If alice thinks bob is less american for shopping at an asian grocery store, the problem lies with alice, not with the society that makes a distinction between "default" and asian grocery stores.
At some point you have to recognize that society and the general makeup of the population has changed and re-word things. We went from policeman to police officer to acknowledge that it's not just men who are police. Same with Stewardess vs Flight Attendant. We should be doing the same here and not define some "default" that excludes so much of the population.
- Everyone I know of any cultural background says they're going to the "grocery store" by default, even if they're going to H Mart or whatever. If they're specific about going to a Mexican/Asian/etc store, it's because they're looking for stuff not easily found elsewhere.
- Many are very proud of their culture's cuisine, and are more than happy to make a distinction. They don't feel "othered" for it.
- Big box stores absolutely tailor their stock to the demographics around them. A Safeway or a Costco in the Bay Area isn't the same as one Eugene, OR. What's considered "normal" in one area is not the same as another.
how is this any different from stuff like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crAv5ttax2I
"American grocery stores" also cater to the demographics around them. For example, Safeways in the Bay Area carry all the staples necessary to make Mexican food despite being an "American" grocery store.
Later I've found out it is used for ritual burning and, since that is difficult to obtain in an urban setting, online retailers are selling it too.
Even found a review on Amazon of a person complaining that it tasted terrible.