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That’s the real, old school web, thx for the submission
Interestingly the older simpler the design, the less dopamine-imbalance I feel. Those sites I can read patiently.. anything modern will turn my brain into impatience impaired click machine.
Everybody needs to learn this lesson themselves, and it needs time to sink in. The result is you more consciously choose how you spend your precious time.
Holy shit it's long. Even AI can't generate that.
What does it mean to "eat my tea"? Isn't it normally made as a drink?

I suppose you can eat tea leaves, never heard of someone doing so...

Tea is another name for the main evening meal (Dinner) in the UK
Thanks, I didn't know that, being from the US myself.
Of course, there's also afternoon tea consists of the drink as well as cake, sandwiches, fancies and scones. And the subset cream tea, with scones, cream & jam.
Is this supposed to be cute? Just seems like a pathetic relationship. I don’t understand the context.
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It’s cute. You must be single
Why/how would you just assume this about them? I’m just as confused as them, I totally don’t find it cute, and I’m married. That thing straddles the line between overdone comedy and straight up coping.
It's tongue-in-cheek. They did not have a fight over which direction to cut kiwis. It's a joke. A cute joke.
I find this very entertaining, for some reason.

It reads quite humorous to me, self-deprecatory. They took little disagreements without importance and put it in writing. Nobody is trashing anybody.

To be able to write this, in this amount, they must be loving each other strongly.

> Is this supposed to be cute? Just seems like a pathetic relationship. I don’t understand the context.

I can imagine two very different ways to interpret that page:

a) Margaret is in on it, and considers it a hilarious comedy roast of her quirks.

b) He's genuinely complaining to the entire planet, publicly, about what he sees as Margaret's faults.

If you happen to find yourself in a relationship where arguments never happen, then by all means. But as someone married to his own Margaret for the past decade I find many of these hilariously relatable.

Even if she can drive me to the brink sometimes (and vice versa), I still very much love her, and when looking at it soberly the good far outweighs the "bad". Taking a bit of craziness on the chin now and then is a minor nuisance compared to many other problems in this life, and a price I'll happily keep paying for the sake of my family.

You might learn, one day. Unless you already know everything.
Real “take my wife, please” vibes. Reading this hurts, and not just because of the colors.
I wonder if they publish their fetlife handle on their website :^)
You may have missed the paragraph starting with: “As you know, this page attracts idiots. We sit here in the gentle glow of thousands of work hours being burned away, and passing idiots are bewitched by the light. They fly towards us and peer in, only to become disorientated and upset. They attempt to enter, but succeed no further than repeatedly banging their poor, bemused little faces against the glass: trying, trying, trying... but never quite grasping the situation. […]”
This seems very normal and healthy.
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People will upvote literally anything on this website as long as it's novel
And I'm okay with that! As other people have noted, this is a relic of the old internet. I think we're all sick of the same generic cookie-cutter dribble being monetized and pushed in front of us.

If there's a lesson to be learned... I'll remember this way more than I'll remember any template-y Launch HN SaaS site marketing page. We're all desperate for something different; something that stops us for a second like a little speed bump during our 8 hours of consuming the same pre-packaged generic crap over and over again.

It's a feature, not a bug.
Honestly, I am with her on the KitKat argument. You're a monster. /s
The first argument listed:

> The way one should cut a Kiwi Fruit in half (along its length or across the middle).

As a Kiwi myself, I will say I have never ever seen anyone cut a kiwi fruit along its length. That is simply insane.

That’s the only way I cut them. Sometimes it takes an outsider to optimize
That's the spirit! You're on your way to your own book.
I don't usually cut them. Just peel them with a spoon (or potato peeler) and bite into it like an apple or cut it into slices ...but agreed, never lengthwise slices.
I just eat them with the peel. Try it, it's not as weird as it sounds.
True kiwifruit enlightenment happened for me when I realized I can eat the skin along with the rest. One simply needs to pop off the fibrous ends.
Me too. Fiber is healthy. The difference between a Kiwi and a Kiwi flavored soda is the fiber (there's some truth here, though it may be exaggerated).
and the energy investment is so drastically lower that my brain can afford to finance the pre-revenue charges of rinsing, cutting the ends, and pulling off a paper towel, so I eat way more of them.
Both are wrong. If you don’t want to eat the skins you should made two diagonal cuts. You want a sharper angle on the endy parts and a wider one on the flatter side pieces.
I usually cut them along the length (unpeeled) and eat the contents out with a spoon. Cutting it this way reduces chances of spoon breaking the peel.
Why cut a kiwi? I just eat it whole.
Of course you cut it along its length, it's easier to eat the inside with a spoon.
> I eat two-fingered Kit-Kats like I'd eat any other chocolate bars of that size, i.e., without feeling the need to snap them into two individual fingers first. Margret accused me of doing this, 'deliberately to annoy her'.

Welp, looks like I'm team Margaret

The pocket thing is real. As a man, I just never understood that. Perks of dating a high-end fashion designer.
I imagine most people when reading this think: "I can see that, anything for fashion." Shrug and think nothing more of it. What would the reaction be were the sexes reversed and the guy said: "Please put my wallet and phone in your purse, I've no pockets."
Friendly reminder that for any sites served over HTTP rather than HTTPS, anyone with access to the traffic between you and the server has the opportunity to inject content of their choice into the page via a man-in-the-middle attack, including JS to be executed by your browser. That can include all manner of complex exploits, sandbox escapes, etc - regardless of the trustworthiness of the content producer themselves.

This is an inherent, unavoidable additional risk you are accepting when you retrieve content over HTTP instead of HTTPS - a risk that content producers are unknowingly foisting upon their viewers by neglecting to even offer their content over HTTPS.

The type of attack I've mentioned, a MiTM, is so trivial to pull off with freely available tools that teenagers were doing this decades ago - this is not a complex, sophisticated attack with a high technical knowledge barrier to carry out, this is something your 12-year-old nephew can do after watching a few youtube videos.

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The technical competence to pull off this attack is low, but being in a position of privilege is difficult. I could kill someone by adding some poison to their food, but more importantly I'd have to poison food they're going to eat. I can trivially add posion to food I cook in my house, but as my victim isn't going to eat that food, that's pointless.

Similarly, in order to "poison" someone else's Internet with a Monster in the middle (MitM) attack, you need to get in a privileged position so as to do that. For people using a smartphone on a cellphone data plan, getting in that privileged position is beyond the capabilities of most 12-year olds, as they'd have to have privileged access into your cell phone provider. If, however that 12-year old is running an insecure wifi AP that you're using to get to the Internet, you're a bit more at risk.

However, the poison in this metaphor is more difficult. A trivial script injection to open a popup is easy to do, but actually doing something harmful is far harder. Aka procuring a poision that only gives you a molds headache in this metaphor is easy, but getting arsenic/something that steals your bank account credentials is hard. Chrome is well hardened against attack, so while bugs do exist, they're not trivial to find and exploit. Which doesn't mean they won't by, but it does mean it's far less likely your 12-year old nephew has 0-days to burn.

I don't disagree with what you've said, but why allow the risk to exist at all when something like Let's Encrypt protects against these sorts of attacks (better than it used to, with TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3 fixing the downgrade attacks present in older TLS/SSL implementations), and is trivial to set up?

Sites hosted on HTTP, rather than HTTPS are doing a disservice to their visitors by putting their visitors at risk, needlessly so - the only reasons for a publisher to not enable HTTPS are laziness and ignorance, which are not virtues.

Sure, the allegorical 12 year old nephew doesn't have zero days to burn, but do you think competent threat actors, such as government agencies who can tap undersea fiber optic cables, who control all the black boxes in the hidden rooms of all the major internet exchange buildings, are unwilling to attack those using HTTP connections?

If the traffic gets hijacked the attacker might change the contents of silly stories and that's absolutely disastrous! Imagine the horror if they misspelled some words!
You are precisely missing my point here - the attacker doesn't merely have the ability to modify the visual content on the page, but to inject arbitrary content of their choice into the response body, including JS scripts / WASM programs. This isn't some pedantic complaint about data integrity, it's a warning about this decision (allowing for HTTP rather than forcing HTTPS with only modern TLS versions supported) results in a possible vector for malicious remote code execution.

Sure, they will be in a browser sandbox, but that's more than enough of a starting point to perform e.g. CSRF attacks, or malicious redirects to exploit kits or phishing pages, or set up a proxy using your connection to do other naughty things... to say nothing of sandbox escapes, cryptominers, or any other manner of JS / WASM nasties.

The problem is, you're focusing on theoretical dangers that have like 0,0000000000000000001% chance of happening, instead of assessing what risks are actually probable. Basically the attitude "I don't allow my child to be out alone because there was a kidnapping case ten years ago on the other side of the country".
I don't believe you're accurately quantifying the risk here. Remember, the barrier to pulling off an attack like this is extraordinarily low, and the list of contexts where it can potentially occur is considerable: potentialy any public wifi network without client isolation, having a naughty neighbor with a yagi antenna and too much free time, ISP/upstream routing entities being shady, or themselves being compromised to serve malware (several ISPs actually performed this exaxt technique to inject ads in the pages their customers were visiting years ago).

Recall that my call to action is adding HTTPS support, and you're arguing against that. What's the counterargument against adding HTTPS? I've yet to hear a reasonable justification for not supporting it. It's incredibly easy, it's free, and it takes less than 3 minutes with Let's Encrypt / certbot.

Honest question - how many other people on HN are in a relationship this fiery? Are you mostly enjoying it or not enjoying it? Do you all believe this is an inevitability for most couples who have just been together for a long time?

Context: I just broke up with my girlfriend a few days ago because we would get into arguments regularly around topics that didn’t seem surpassable (values, negative feedback loop insecurity types, etc.) and would leave both of us drained. I just didn’t want that amount of anxiety in my life. I 100% understand that some people are totally cool with it though and don’t have an issue at all.

Maybe they have a stable relationship because OP has an outlet to explore and journal their thoughts.
For sure. I have friends who are in long term relationships and very happy and they bicker a lot. I have friends who never fight or raise their voices. Compatibility of sensitivity is a real thing.
You can pretty much eliminate angry disagreements in a relationship with assertive communication techniques- I recommend the book “when I say no I feel guilty.”

I am okay if my wife disagrees with me on things- I don’t really care to convince her, there is usually no point in (or possibly of) doing so. If there is something that requires an actual real world action- and it is really important to me, she will concede even without agreeing because she cares about me, and I would do the same for her. Disagreements over simple life things can be a fun subject for light teasing, flirting, and joking that help you grow closer.

I think a lot of people confuse honoring and validating each others emotions with matters of fact and opinion. People argue about facts they don’t actually care about, it isn’t usually what the conflict is really even about!

This is key.

Not agreeing is not the same as not listening or not caring.

> how many other people on HN are in a relationship this fiery?

I'm not in such a relationship anymore.

> Are you mostly enjoying it or not enjoying it?

I never enjoyed it at the time.

> Do you all believe this is an inevitability for most couples who have just been together for a long time?

Not at all, I have since found that healthy relationships without silly, draining arguments are absolutely possible and enjoyable.

> values, negative feedback loop insecurity types

These seem very hard to handle indeed, and probably nothing like the little arguments written on that page, at least at the top (I haven't read everything). There are definitely people who like the little arguments. If you trust each others, you know it's not important. It must spice things up. It's part of the fun. It builds complicity. It's probably a bit like teasing. At least, that's how I feel when reading that page. The little arguments become serious when they are about stuff that cause frustration to the level that the frustration grows (slowly) over time and becomes unbearable. Those things are to discuss seriously. You can't have such funny little arguments on things that make you uneasy.

I'm not currently experiencing much of such little arguments, not sure we work like this, but I like a little teasing for sure.

Good luck and take care.

This is such a great distinction (teasing vs. built resentment). I think there was definitely mounting resentment from both ends (and I’m not a saint/the victim here). There were also arguments we’d have where both of us didn’t take things seriously and it was just fun/added some spice. Thank you!
In any case don't be too hard on yourself. Such relationships are not meant for bringing anxiety. It seems people need to be enough self-confident for a healthy relationship to work well. As sad as it can feel, when someone feels insecure, that's something that's, apparently, usually too difficult for a partner to fix, alone anyway.
the one about presents seems very unhealthy. (and in general the whole situation.)

the depicted Margaret character seems to be very demanding, arbitrary, vindictive, petty, has double standards, has self-control issues (kicking the driver's seat from behind, narrating movies[5], offering unsolicited remarks[4]), she does not seem to recognize boundaries (asking him during movies), she seems to be sexually promiscuous[3], extreme insecurity issues[2], issues with attention and focus[1], ... and so on.

I tend to believe that Mil embellishes the stories, also he seems to have the kind of sense of humor that can withstand, thrive on, and mayhaps even require this level of interpersonal intensity. Also he seems much older, and she seems much hotter. So maybe "it" equals out.

.

The novel[6], that eventually sprung out from the site, seems to be pretty okay, a bit of absurdist-realist comedy, maybe like Hugh Laurie's The Gun Seller light edition.

.

.

[1] "Margret jack-knifes from argument to argument, jigs direction randomly and erratically like a shoal of Argument Fish being followed by a Truth Shark."

[2] "Those trousers make your backside look fat"

[3] photo album in Berlin at a friend, "shots of Margret naked"

[4] see the entry with "The television is showing Baywatch."

[5] "when she furnishes me, deaf to my pleading, with her commentary"

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_My_Girlfriend_and_I_Hav...

I thought this was odd. My partner and I have disagreements at times but it's rare and mostly due to the fact that we're basically the same person. We have been together 24/7 for almost 2 years and hang out every night and I still can't wait for my shift to end so I can go spend more time with her!
My wife and I verbally argue nearly daily about many things. But we usually work things out over time. Fast forward much time later-(days, months, etc) such topics 90% of the time are no longer important enough for either of us to really care about talking about them. We're happy _enough_ , what usually impacts us as a couple is the frustrations we individually feel with external factors- not each other. Think of two fish stuck in a bowl they outgrew- any hostilities are not particularly with each other, but the result of their environment. The usual consensus between us is usually summed up to "yeah, this moment is hard for us- but we've been through worse and we'll keep working hard to get to the next stage in life".

That being said, we both have our own issues from before we met each other- but we actively want to better ourselves and are trying to overcome our own flaws while accepting the each other as they are. Communication is hard, conflicting thoughts and emotions between cohabitants is hard, but if it were too easy- there might occur a paranoia of it being fake. The ability to resolve conflict and work together as a team is what will ultimately determine the strength and duration of a relationship. That's not something that's easily learned or often taught... and I would not depend on books alone for such life lessons.

Yeah great advice. We both really tried. We committed to working through things. We saw a couple’s therapist. We went through some pretty intense ups and downs on both our ends ranging from a death of a very close family member of hers to layoffs at my company and many other things. I just found that, ultimately, it still didn’t feel worth it based on how we would communicate and trigger each other even when we tried. And we would just keep going because we wanted to fight for the relationship, despite it continuing to not make a ton of progress.

I guess that’s the “not depending on books alone” part of your comment. It feels like I’ve gained some really important life experience, but I just haven’t fully processed it or been able to make sense of it. Funny enough, I’m making more sense of it with time and with comments like the ones here.

Thank you for your comment!

My wife and I had a long few years towards the beginning that felt familiar while reading this, but eventually we both learned to prioritize peace and patience with one another over whatever nonsense seems so important at the moment. If it’s genuinely important, we are both generally now able to restrain ourselves and listen, or get some space while we calm down if it’s not. Not at all to gloat, only to say it is at least possible. I think the passage of some years also helped.
I used to have annoying relationships like this in my early 20’s then I realized I had to stop dating narcissists. Women who put themself at the center of the relationship. A lot of chicks passive aggressively encourage codependency. You can’t make them happy though, it’s a trap. The flip side is not caring at all and they love that too but it’s terrible too. The trick is to be honest from the beginning, set boundaries, and from time to time reconfirm the deal. Also never compromise to the point of helplessness. Do not date and especially never marry a women that doesn’t listen.
This is interesting. She would often admit that she was codependent and would forewarn that she knew she was being annoying because of that, but then there would be no actual progress/accountability on getting better. It would be this loop where she’d warn that she was being that way, but then she would go on and create an argument out of it anyway. I definitely don’t think she was a narcissist. She’s such a great human being. I think we both didn’t have the tools to deal with our competing insecurities and how they triggered each other. It was a bit of a shock to me since I had relationships with women who were much more secure in the past, and we never got into these intense of arguments. They were always resolved quickly and it never got disrespectful.
I’m not diagnosing anyone with narcissism per se but women do exhibit narcissistic behaviors. Listen for when they ask you to make them happy. It’s exaggerated during PMS and their period. It takes experience and even then having a backbone and being firm with women is tricky. When women are aggressive they create a hostile environment and play victim. Good or bad it’s all about a feeling of control because friends and family engender learned helplessness in them. If they choose not to take responsibility for their negative behavior then remove yourself from the situation.
Depends on a lot. I used to argue about how to raise kids. She always won and I gave up having any say. I had a few siblings and many younger cousins that I watched very often and had been trained on how to raise kids by older people in my "village." I was confident and had a lot of tools under my belt. She floundered and insisted on going with her gut reaction on everything. Zero siblings, cousins, experience or training.

Twenty years later she is having breakdowns about the kids sitting around the house fucking off and pissing their life away. Not helping with shit unless harassed. Ignoring her every word.

She pleads with me for help, and I just shrug and say: "What are you going to do honey? It is what it is." I tried to prevent this.

Then I go on with my life and prioritize my own enjoyment. All I ever wanted to do was give them serious responsibilies around the home, but she always rebuffed it. Now it's too late.

You can't tell anyone anything.

I’m very sorry to hear that things have led down this path. I hope for nothing but the best for you, her, and your kids. Do you feel like, if you could go back, you would rather end things knowing there were this large of disagreements on the fundamentals of how you would raise your kids? Or did you guys not fully broach these topics before getting married? Obviously, no pressure to answer here. These are sensitive questions to answer and put out on the internet.
Ha ha, it just is what it is. I chose not to strangle her twenty years ago. Things are good.

I really don't understand how people think they can engineer themselves into some type of perfect relationship. You could easily end up miserable either way. My wife has so many good qualities. Everyone loves her and she is obsessed with me.

I argue with my wife, maybe, once a quarter. Together for 6 years.

The important factor is working together to work things out, as one of the other commenters said.

But I don't believe arguments should be considered normal. We stop 100% of the time and say "ok hang on, we've got different ideas here, let's figure something out" - sometimes we will have to leave it and come back to it later.

I was abused by boomer parents early similar to the OP. And I am not going to continue that for my family or kids. My wife hasn't been abused but she's woken up to how awful her own parents are at arguing

I left a 6 year relationship full of tiny disagreements about tiny inconsequential things, that would regularly snowball into whiny accusations (on her side) and feelings of betrayal on both sides. I’ve read some books about this since and I’m pretty sure I’d be able to handle most of it much better, but I’m also sure I wouldn’t want to end up in a similar relationship again. No matter how tiny, disagreements are still disagreements and take energy and time to resolve. I’m willing to invest some (quite a lot actually) into a relationship, but not all of it.

I’ve been with a different girl for five years now, we got married this year and it’s been a breeze so far. We’ve both made some mistakes (like regular everyday stuff) in those five years, but AFAIK we still deeply respect and love each other. The difference is night and day.

I think this basically sums up a lot of our relationship. Lots of arguments. Usually over small stuff but some big things. I ultimately didn’t feel I wanted to invest this much energy into making the relationship work, but she did and felt like I was giving up and thought I was “stronger than that”. I totally understand where she’s coming from being the person who seems to have been less affected by the arguments, but I just had to make a call for myself at the end of the day.
Disagreements of course come up, but it's not an inevitability to descend into constant daily arguments about things. Been with my wife for 13 years, we rarely argue, but:

* we both have Buddhist based meditation practices we've cultivated individually for years

* we both have been to therapy individually

* we both have journaling practices to work through interior things.

* we have physical and artistic practices

* we take psychedelics together once or twice a year

The first couple years living together can be a little tough, especially if you've never done it with another partner. We fought more earlier on, before she started her meditation practice and before I went to therapy. As long as both people are working on themselves and the relationship I don't think there's a reason to descend into the stereotypical bickering married couple trope though.

I am such a person. I can turn anything into an argument. I know that this makes me difficult to be around, but it's incredibly hard for me to stop being completely focused on myself. I can't just decide "from now on I'll completely change my personality for the better".

In my relationships, I not only caused lots of silly arguments, but I also attracted people who, for one reason or another, were an endless source of frustration.

When I look at relationships around me, most of them suck. There are some good ones, but they're rare, and it's absolutely essential that both parties of a relationship are chill people in general, which is rare.

I believe the point is multifaceted:

1. Relationships are hard.

2. If you take a step back and look at the things you argue with your significant other about (or anyone else close to you), it's humbling to see how silly it often is.

3. Love doesn't always agree; if you actually hated the person, why would you stick with them through the annoyances and arguments instead of leaving?

Sure, the whole thing seems unhealthy and petty, but I think that he would have stopped writing a lot sooner if he didn't truly love her. I also think the slightly-hidden image at the very bottom left of the page says a lot more than any of his words do.

> If you take a step back and look at the things you argue with your significant other about (or anyone else close to you), it's humbling to see how silly it often is.

One piece of advice I got from an old family friend when getting married two decades ago ... the next time you find yourself arguing with your spouse, when you feel that slight bit of anger or annoyance bubbling up, lift your shirt up and show them your belly button. You don't have to stop talking, just lift your shirt up and show your belly button while you're making whatever point you are making.

I've tried this a few times and it works wonders - doing something silly makes me stop and realize how silly the argument I'm in is.

> if you actually hated the person

Just my 2c, but hate isn't the opposite of love. Apathy is the opposite of love.

If anyone cares, he used to have a mailing list, with emails such as this (Mon, 13 Jun 2005):

Good day, my handsomes.

Demonstrating the sedulity for which I am rightly famous, it's another full-size Mail this time. A colossal, sprawling thing, packed full of work-dodging nourishment: to you, a warm bath of idleness in which to soak; to your parsimonious employer, both a thumb and a nose.Its varied time-wasting confections include:

1) A small anecdote that, if you're a women, will have you valuing your partner all the more, or, if you're a man, may be recounted at a crucial moment as a defence for your otherwise wholly unacceptable behaviour. Basically: Women - See? It could be worse; Men - Here, let Mil take a bullet for you.

2) A few links to things to which I said, in some moments of weakness, I'd provide links.

3) Want to be a writer, eh? That's because you know nothing. Get the opportunity to 'be' me for the duration of a questionnaire, and experience the reality of life as a novelist in all its disorientating horror.

4) Probably some bridging sentences.

"But, how do I read this Mail?" you howl, clawing at your cheeks and running about setting fire to things like Rochester's first wife. Well, in the usual way, of course. What are you, dim? You know the rules: no dim people are allowed on this List - unsub now and go back to the Internet, dimmy. For the rest of you scented and verifiably undim Mailing Listers, the standard methods apply:

To read the Mail online, visit here:

http://microurl.com/mil/sixsquared

Or, to receive it as a near-instant auto-reply in your Inbox, send an email to:

gummibandpost@mil.theweekly.co.uk

(mailto:gummibandpost@mil.theweekly.co.uk)

(NTL continues to be rubbish, and analysts expect it to remain so until we're all dead in the ground. So, the auto-reply service in now provided by a cage of urchins at The Weekly. Hurrah for The Weekly and its keen-eyed exploitation of Science and foundlings.)

As you are aware, the method you choose to employ is down to nothing more than how best to bypass the particular filters your company has decided - ineffectively, but still to its lasting shame - to employ.

So, put aside all thoughts of labour while you spin away a few minutes at the Mail. It is Monday. Far better to not to jump straight back into work with jarring abruptness after the weekend's pause: that way lies only personal injury.

Mil.

-- Things My Girlfriend And I Have Argued About http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mil.millington/things.html

(To leave this list, go to

http://theweekly.co.uk/mil_mailing_list/index.cgi?a=mil-mill...

This will become evidence in a murder trial or a divorce trial, or possibly in a divorce trial and then later a murder trial. If called for jury duty I would want to cheat and say something obnoxiously ignorant to be released, but now having read the blog post I think I have a legitimate excuse.
>When Margret used to go shopping and she'd see, for example, a pair of jeans in a department store, do you know what she used to do? Try them on. I think you're all with me here, but just for anyone who's joined us late, I don't mean she'd go to the changing rooms and try them on. That would be a preposterous idea wouldn't it? No, she'd just get undressed there in the middle of the sales floor to try them on. It took me some considerable time to persuade her that this wasn't normal behaviour in Britain, despite what she might have seen on Benny Hill. Even then, she only stopped - amid much eye-rolling and, 'You and your silly social conventions,'

Was this ever the norm in Germany?

Ignoring any prudish complaints, it'd seem like a pain for other shoppers.

"She really over-reacts whenever she catches me wearing her underwear."
> We're staying at a German friend's flat in Berlin and he brings out the photo album, as people do when conversational desperation has set in. It's largely pictures of a holiday he went on with Margret and a few friends several years previously. And consists pretty much entirely of shots of Margret naked.

On what planet is this ok?

I believe in some countries in northern Europe that's not as wild as it may sound. I'm European