It's a lot harder to make a mistake in binary mersenne primes, and if you loop your video's, 1 person should be able to do it quickly, so might be a bit boring.
There are 136,279,841 ones in the binary mersenne prime
That works out to about 41 million seconds worth of footage, or about 473 days
Given there was a gap of 6 years between the discovery of this mersenne prime and the previous, in theory 1 person could say all the digits (in binary) before we find the next mersenne prime!
Sure, if that one person can stay awake and not eat/drink and use the restroom, sure. Otherwise, you need to make this union happy with 8 hour shifts, 2 15 minute breaks, and a minimum of 12 hour turn around before next shift. If they work more than 8 hours in a day, they are entitled to over time. Working a sixth day in a row is automatic 1.5x pay, and seven consecutive days is automatic 2x pay.
"The largest known prime is two raised to the power of one hundred thirty six million two hundred seventy nine thousand eight hundred forty one,
minus one" only took me 8.2 seconds to say aloud at a normal speaking pace. :)
> Given there was a gap of 6 years between the discovery of this mersenne prime and the previous
It was the largest gap so far. Several primes were quite close. The next one might be discovered much sooner. Previos two had a gap of a bit less than a year.
They want each participant to upload their video on their own channel. It feels like the chances all 100k videos and accounts last even a week is vanishingly small...
Are they going to verify that everyone said their sequence correctly?
It would be a silly and pointless prank to derail the effort by omitting a number on purpose, but this is the internet... Or maybe it's just the 'coming together' aspect that we're going for anyway, in which case, it doesn't matter :)
>We're aware it's likely that if you're reading out a long string of digits like this, you're likely to slip up or say a wrong digit. Mistakes are a very human feature, but as long as you correct it and carry on, they're fine - we just need evidence of humans having said the whole prime, not necessarily in one go. You can watch your video back through before submitting to check it's ok. If you want to edit together multiple clips to make your video, that's also fine!
So they need the some degree of semantic understanding to recognize corrections, in the various forms they can take. Speech to text alone is insufficient.
But errors would be rare enough that a single sufficiently OCD soul (or a handful if you wanted error correction of last verification step) could look over the transcripts and diff them against the text of the prime and ensure that every digit in the prime is part of a large sequence of digits read out by the people.
You don’t need semantics. Just what is expected. If it deviates and returns to what is expected, it is a success. If it deviates and doesn’t return, it is incorrect. The assertion is that all the digits are said, not that all the digits are said flawlessly.
Suppose the digit sequence is: "1, 2, 3, 4, 5". Someone says: "9, 2, 3 -- wait, the digit a few places back was a 1, not a 9 -- 4, 5". The pattern /^.*1.*2.*3.*4.*5.*$/ doesn't match; they didn't "deviate and return" in the way you seem to be implying; yet they've expressed the correction in a reasonable way that a human would understand.
Probably not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers only lists up to a Millinillion, or 10^3003. You can compound them, but it kinda defeats the point.
A googol is too small, and a googolplex is too large.
If you check the section "Extensions of the standard dictionary numbers" on the page you linked, there's a system for naming arbitrarily large numbers as -illions. The prime here is approx. 8.82 * 10^41024319, and 10^41024319 is the 13674772nd -illion (short scale), so it would begin eight tredecilliquattuorseptuagintasescentilliduoseptuagintaseptingentillion.
The whole point of the extensible system is that you can, in fact, extend it as much as you need.
... I just threw this into my zillion-ifier program and ... huh, it took 12 hours even with the GMP version, though I'll admit I didn't really optimize it ... the output is about a gigabyte of text
eight tredecilliquattuorseptuagintasescentilliduoseptuagintaseptingentillion,
eight hundred sixteen tredecilliquattuorseptuagintasescentilliunseptuagintaseptingentillion,
nine hundred forty three tredecilliquattuorseptuagintasescentilliseptuagintaseptingentillion,
two hundred seventy five tredecilliquattuorseptuagintasescentillinovensexagintaseptingentillion,
thirty eight tredecilliquattuorseptuagintasescentillioctosexagintaseptingentillion,
...
Ooh, let’s do this with the Busy Beaver function too. BB(5) is only 12,289 binary digits to say out loud. BB(6) and BB(7) can’t possibly take that much longer to say.
For context, because I had to look it up: For BB(6), Σ(6) is known to be least 10 ↑↑ 15 for in Knuth's up-arrow notation. You can read this as 10^(10 ↑↑ 14) = 10^(10^(10 ↑↑ 13)) and so on. It's much more than just a lot.
Yeah, that’s the shift function / number of steps. I’m talking about the length of the contents on the tape when the machine enters a halt state. The notation “BB” is a bit overloaded in the literature.
The length of the contents of the tape of any halting TM will be less than or equal to the number of steps it takes to run. Quite trivially: you can’t consume tape without taking a step. For BB(5), 4098 1’s are written to the tape (this is referred to as Σ(5)). As for the length of the contents, I’m not sure, but again you can’t so sume tape without a step, and anecdotally the BBs are generally “back and forth”, at least the Collatz-like ones (which BB(5) is).
Sure, I’m just referring to the fact that there doesn’t seem to be a widespread standard on what “Busy Beaver” refers to in the literature. Scott Aaronson tends to reference the shift function, but older papers consider Σ as the “Busy Beaver function” or the “ones function” as you point out. My number came from running the machine itself and considering the largest contiguous section of output (since you typically start with a tape consisting of infinite zeros).
If we think of the nth prime as the output of a Turing machine that computes the prime numbers where n is on the input tape, then if people are saying the output aloud of such a machine, it would make sense to do so similarly here as well.
Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter. All these functions basically grow at the same rate asymptotically.
Yes, sorry, the implicit assumption I accidentally left in my head is that when we're talking about factoring being important, it's products of 2 biggish primes (hence an answer one step removed from the lists of largest known primes).
I wouldn't mind if it didn't keep recommending me videos I've already watched (they're showing the red bar! they know I've watched it!) or from channels I've already said no to or on topics I've frequently said no to or on topics that I watched one video on[1] and now YouTube thinks I want a full page of similar videos.
The algorithm is, for want of some better words, absolute cack.
[1] Even if I don't finish the video or say I don't like it or say "don't recommend channel", FFHS
Lol, I know the pain (who doesn’t). Disliking and removing from history works for me, at least in the short term. I put history right on the sidebar with unhook extension, I believe. Sometimes I clear whole pages from there to avoid spam.
What to do with videos I don’t want to dislike, idk. It keeps recommending watch-once-already-watched videos indefinitely.
The (dis)like buttons are now completely pointless on Youtube, since they removed dislikes when people disliked the wrong things and made Susan (RIP) sad.
It feels like the Youtube algorithm is on drugs now. I get a lot of uninteresting recommendations of videos with no views from channels with no subscribers. A lot of recommendations of things I've already watched recently. A lot of recommendations of stuff that's extremely old (a lot of which I've already watched).
And these recommendations persist for ages. Somehow it must know after a while, after presenting me the same video 50 times that I'm not going to watch it. It's so tiresome. And god help me if I watch a few cat videos. My recs are going to be full of cats for weeks. I feel like I have to watch cat videos in incognito.
Or your in-laws watch your Netflix over their holiday visit. Now I can't tell if Netflix has generally worse quality content these days or if it's just recommending garbage to me based on what people have watched on my profile.
I think it's just pretty hard to recommend things outside of what they know you like.
You can log off and look at what's popular on your country's front page. I get a couple popular music videos, clash of clans, soccer, and a whole lot of clickbait/prank/you won't believe this/pikachu face thumbnail videos.
It wasn’t hard 10-15 years ago when it was at its peak. I suspect all it did was relaxing walk rules and simply presenting more diverse selection, which optimizes for surfing but deoptimizes for some modal group.
I also remember right-bar surfing techniques that don’t work anymore.
Part of it is also the creators optimizing for what the suggestion algorithm rewards. If you don't like the front page, you're looking for a needle in a haystack, because creators are rewarded very heavily for making the kind of content that lands on the front page and gets mass amounts of views.
Youtube doesn't have much of an incentive to show things that are not either popular in general, or that already worked on you in the past. There are some people that care strongly about that (me included), but it's a very small minority.
If the A/B test says distilled garbage is what hijacks the dopamine center the best, then you will be fed the A/B juice. And on average, people in your cohort will like it.
I seen multiple creators performing A/B tests on clickbait titles/thumbnails/pokatchu faces and everywhere conclusion was the same: it's so effective for their bottom line that even when they are not comfortable with it, they cannot afford to not do it.
Netflix simply attempting to provide somewhat relevant recommendations was a massive data crunching effort years ago, and even that was "only" the official movies and television of humanity. Data take from a previous post I made 9 months ago [1] and from this article [2] and this paper on Youtube data statistics [3].
It can't be that hard, once you develop a profile for a user, you just need to classify the incoming videos and cross reference their profile against the classifications.
Underrated reason for tiktok's success: shorter videos lend themselves way better to recommendation algorithms, because you have better data about what users want to see
Almost all my recommended videos have tens of thousands of views or more. I don't know for sure if the algorithm usually ignores 97% of videos, but it might as well be doing that. Doing that vastly reduces the number of options and means you have lots and lots of data for each video.
Turn off watch history in your google settings. Then remove all your favorites. (save them to a playlist first to keep them) This forces the algorithm to only consider what other people who have watched the video you have open are watching when building suggestions, and this makes the suggestions dramatically better.
At the top of the homepage there's a menu bar with categories, if you scroll all the way to try right of that there's a "new to you" option. Try it out :)
Youtube is one symptom that Google's business model is ethically and ecologically unsustainable. Process and store whatever nonsense to collect more user data.
DDoSing youtube i am afraid ll take far far more than that. atleast a 100 million AI generated garbage videos to be uploaded every hour to even consider it as an attack at the minimum
The direct application of looking for primes is that's an interesting computer science research project (perf, networking, big data) with a clear practical use, besides obviously being a pure research field which is valuable in itself. There are 800+ results in google scholar for the project (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=GIMPS&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&...)
Vocalizing primes? Maybe it could be used in speech synthesis although I'm not sure that the terms allow it or that the participants would be happy with their voice becoming AI...
I last read that story nearly a decade ago, I think. This time around, it feels more real. The engineers follow silly instructions from people with money, and then...
That was a fun read. I think I let myself get a little too excited for an ending that couldn’t possibly satisfy, but it was still satisfying innit its own way
A similar kind of story though much longer is Unsong by Scott Alexander. The prolog starts with Apollo 8 crashing into the celestial sphere and divine magic starts leaking back into the world; Angels are real, Kabala based on the names of God allow real magic and they've been copyrighted. Our protagonist is a worker bee that spends all day saying nonsense combinations that could be True Names for his employer to patent and sell. One day right after the end of his shift he stumbles on one completely by accident and it changes everything.
Off topic but this is not technically true. 41 million digits means 1.3 years of saying one digit per second. Even taking 3x as long, to account for sleep and other activities, this would take about four years - still very much doable.
Four years times $100k/year plus $100k completion bonus equals $500k; I guess many people would be willing to do it alone under these conditions.
Beyond a points its curiosity and pushing existing computational techniques to their limits. Sometimes it leads to new discoveries in computational techniques or in rarer cases new theoretical work.
Long story short, it’s fun to find out new things about weird numbers :)
Don't be boring. A quick triage with an AI and a spot check suggest that the guitar solo at the end of Hotel California has just about the right number of notes (depending on how many '7' you get).
Sweet Child of Mine probably works.
Comfortably Numb(ber) allegedly works, but I doubt any of the singers I have access to can enunciate fast enough. For the most relaxed of the options, it has amazing little clouds of fast notes.
MUST RESIST: this is worse than waking up to a Saturday morning "Nerd Sniping", I could lose the whole weekend to this… I'll bet Nate isn't busy… With him and the girls from (redacted) Bohemian Rhapsody could work…
UPDATE: There goes the weekend. So far I've been in a fight with ChatGPT about counting syllables in copyrighted lyrics where I ended up suggesting it get help for its obvious emotional trauma at the hands of an IP lawyer and lined up 5 singers. "enjoy the ride" has beaten "they are just intrusive thoughts".
given some sort of excrmption from time the chance of any human or group of humans getting it right are still zero, nobody is that good, so the only plausable way to do it, is to just aproximate the number, which we then might as well get on with congradulating ourselves with a job well done, me first I so great,now you ,and you
,and well everybody so great now
But then I read it, and they call it stupid. And then I think, oh… I think I will move on. How boring am I. And why put it up on YouTube - so many videos - given you can’t legitimately download all the videos (unless I am mistaken?) I mean you are investing so much of other people time with this, you think you might offer up an alternative own system in return… how boring I am.
157 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 149 ms ] threadFor example, in decimal, you can group the digits by pairs, and you just need 100 videos.
It takes about 3s to say 10 "one"s
There are 136,279,841 ones in the binary mersenne prime
That works out to about 41 million seconds worth of footage, or about 473 days
Given there was a gap of 6 years between the discovery of this mersenne prime and the previous, in theory 1 person could say all the digits (in binary) before we find the next mersenne prime!
Want to run your calculations again? =)
It was the largest gap so far. Several primes were quite close. The next one might be discovered much sooner. Previos two had a gap of a bit less than a year.
It would be a silly and pointless prank to derail the effort by omitting a number on purpose, but this is the internet... Or maybe it's just the 'coming together' aspect that we're going for anyway, in which case, it doesn't matter :)
It's trivial-ish to do.
First iteration - Google already auto-transcribes, just download the subtitles and compare to the required numbers.
Someone else keen can check if that works - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsDAGe7lsII
>We're aware it's likely that if you're reading out a long string of digits like this, you're likely to slip up or say a wrong digit. Mistakes are a very human feature, but as long as you correct it and carry on, they're fine - we just need evidence of humans having said the whole prime, not necessarily in one go. You can watch your video back through before submitting to check it's ok. If you want to edit together multiple clips to make your video, that's also fine!
So they need the some degree of semantic understanding to recognize corrections, in the various forms they can take. Speech to text alone is insufficient.
The assignment here would be to find enough people to _listen_ to batches of 416 of them.
Art is a valuable part of the human experience. Art connects us, inspires us, humors us.
You may not appreciate all forms of art, and that's ok!
... I just threw this into my zillion-ifier program and ... huh, it took 12 hours even with the GMP version, though I'll admit I didn't really optimize it ... the output is about a gigabyte of text
It seems the 419 digits/person was chosen to lead to 100,000 people.
Anyone know how many digits this is?
https://wiki.bbchallenge.org/wiki/BB(5)
If we think of the nth prime as the output of a Turing machine that computes the prime numbers where n is on the input tape, then if people are saying the output aloud of such a machine, it would make sense to do so similarly here as well.
Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter. All these functions basically grow at the same rate asymptotically.
The primes in your RSA keys are likely to be 1024-bit primes, or about 308 digits.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainTheJoke/comments/1czson4/eve...
https://old.reddit.com/r/ExplainTheJoke/comments/1czson4/eve...
This is the weirdest DDoS attack on YouTube I've seen.
The algorithm is, for want of some better words, absolute cack.
[1] Even if I don't finish the video or say I don't like it or say "don't recommend channel", FFHS
What to do with videos I don’t want to dislike, idk. It keeps recommending watch-once-already-watched videos indefinitely.
It feels like the Youtube algorithm is on drugs now. I get a lot of uninteresting recommendations of videos with no views from channels with no subscribers. A lot of recommendations of things I've already watched recently. A lot of recommendations of stuff that's extremely old (a lot of which I've already watched).
And these recommendations persist for ages. Somehow it must know after a while, after presenting me the same video 50 times that I'm not going to watch it. It's so tiresome. And god help me if I watch a few cat videos. My recs are going to be full of cats for weeks. I feel like I have to watch cat videos in incognito.
That is wild.
You aren’t the target market.
Yep, I do that occasionally and bloody hell, you're not wrong about the flood.
You can log off and look at what's popular on your country's front page. I get a couple popular music videos, clash of clans, soccer, and a whole lot of clickbait/prank/you won't believe this/pikachu face thumbnail videos.
It wasn’t hard 10-15 years ago when it was at its peak. I suspect all it did was relaxing walk rules and simply presenting more diverse selection, which optimizes for surfing but deoptimizes for some modal group.
I also remember right-bar surfing techniques that don’t work anymore.
Front page is distilled garbage to me.
Youtube doesn't have much of an incentive to show things that are not either popular in general, or that already worked on you in the past. There are some people that care strongly about that (me included), but it's a very small minority.
If the A/B test says distilled garbage is what hijacks the dopamine center the best, then you will be fed the A/B juice. And on average, people in your cohort will like it.
Consider momentarily the amount of data processing necessary to somehow recommend a relevant video from:
Which works out to: Netflix simply attempting to provide somewhat relevant recommendations was a massive data crunching effort years ago, and even that was "only" the official movies and television of humanity. Data take from a previous post I made 9 months ago [1] and from this article [2] and this paper on Youtube data statistics [3].[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39421041
[2] "What We Discovered on ‘Deep YouTube’", https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/01/how-m...
[3] "Dialing for Videos: A Random Sample of YouTube", https://journalqd.org/article/view/4066/3766
Vocalizing primes? Maybe it could be used in speech synthesis although I'm not sure that the terms allow it or that the participants would be happy with their voice becoming AI...
But then, you know, I don't involve 100k people in my projects...
What is a practical use for largest known prime number?
You may be onto something here. We must retain some of our youthful wimsy to be able to appreciate this project.
Just as the last video is uploaded, without any fuss, the stars start going out...
https://urbigenous.net/library/nine_billion_names_of_god.htm...
https://unsongbook.com/
Off topic but this is not technically true. 41 million digits means 1.3 years of saying one digit per second. Even taking 3x as long, to account for sleep and other activities, this would take about four years - still very much doable.
Four years times $100k/year plus $100k completion bonus equals $500k; I guess many people would be willing to do it alone under these conditions.
The goal of this project is not only to say the big number, but to say the big number before we discover the next bigger number.
The two gaps before that were each only 1 year though.
So depends on how lucky you think you’ll get.
Long story short, it’s fun to find out new things about weird numbers :)
https://www.mersenne.org/why_join/
Sweet Child of Mine probably works.
Comfortably Numb(ber) allegedly works, but I doubt any of the singers I have access to can enunciate fast enough. For the most relaxed of the options, it has amazing little clouds of fast notes.
MUST RESIST: this is worse than waking up to a Saturday morning "Nerd Sniping", I could lose the whole weekend to this… I'll bet Nate isn't busy… With him and the girls from (redacted) Bohemian Rhapsody could work…
UPDATE: There goes the weekend. So far I've been in a fight with ChatGPT about counting syllables in copyrighted lyrics where I ended up suggesting it get help for its obvious emotional trauma at the hands of an IP lawyer and lined up 5 singers. "enjoy the ride" has beaten "they are just intrusive thoughts".
"She's My Number Pi: The Irrationally Long Number Pi Song"
https://youtu.be/Skf8NTEnrO4?si=gWDlZwNi67Zc7nLM
The Great Gatsby is pitiful in comparison to the output any prompt anyone reading this can obtain within seconds.
Not to diminish, it is fun as fuck, but accumulating uncannily daily.
But then I read it, and they call it stupid. And then I think, oh… I think I will move on. How boring am I. And why put it up on YouTube - so many videos - given you can’t legitimately download all the videos (unless I am mistaken?) I mean you are investing so much of other people time with this, you think you might offer up an alternative own system in return… how boring I am.