Launch HN: Codebuff (YC F24) – CLI tool that writes code for you

285 points by jahooma ↗ HN
Hey HN! We’re James and Brandon building Codebuff (https://codebuff.com). Codebuff is like Cursor Composer, but in your terminal: it modifies files based on your natural language requests. You can try it with `npm i -g codebuff` and start using it immediately for free. We have no login gate, and we give all accounts up to $20 worth of credits.

Codebuff is different because we simplified the input to one step: you type what you want done in your terminal and hit enter. Then Codebuff looks through your whole codebase and makes the edits it wants, to existing source files or new ones. It also can run your tests, the type checker, or install packages to fulfill your request.

Demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ0NOMsu0dA

It all started at a hackathon. I was trying out Sonnet 3.5 which had recently come out and seeing if I could use it to write code. The script I cobbled together that day pulled codebase context in one step and used it to rewrite files with changes in the second step. This two step process still exists today. Incidentally, my hackathon script worked rather poorly and my demo failed to produce any useful code.

But that weekend I thought about the kind of errors it made, and realized that with more context on our codebase, it might have been able to get the change right. For example, it tried to create an endpoint on our server (at my previous startup), but it didn't know that you needed to edit 3 specific files to do this (yeah... our backend was not that clean). So I hand-wrote a guide to our codebase, like I was instructing a new hire. I put it in a markdown file and passed it into Sonnet 3.5's system prompt. And the crazy thing is that it started producing wayyy better code. So, I started getting excited. In fact, this code guide idea still exists in Codebuff today as knowledge.md files which are automatically read on every request.

I didn't think of this project as a startup idea at first. I thought it was just a simple script anyone could write. But after another week, I could see there were more problems to solve and it should be a product.

In the week between applying to YC and the interview, I could not get Codebuff to edit files consistently. I tried many prompting strategies to get it to replace strings in the original file, but nothing worked reliably. How could I face my interviewer if I could not get something basic like this to work? On the day before my interview, in a Hail Mary attempt, I fine-tuned GPT-4o to turn Claude's sketch of changes into a git patch, which would add and remove lines to make the edits. I only finished generating the training data late at night, and the fine-tuning job ran as I slept.

And, holy hell, the next morning it worked! I pushed it to production just in time for my YC interview with Dalton. Soon after, Brandon joined and we were off to the races.

So, how does Codebuff work exactly? You invoke it in your terminal, and it starts by running through the source files in that directory and subdirectories and parsing out all the function and class names (or equivalents in 11 languages). We use the tree-sitter library to do this. It builds out a codebase map that includes these symbols and the file tree.

Then, it fires off a request to Claude Haiku 3.5 to cache this codebase context so user inputs can be responded to with lower latency. (Prompt caching is OP!). We have a stateless server that passes messages along to Anthropic or OpenAI. We use websockets to ferry data back and forth to clients. We didn't have authentication or even a database for the first three months. Codebuff was free to install and used our API keys for all requests. Luckily, no one exploited us for too much free Claude usage haha. Major thanks to Brandon for saving this situation by building out our database (Postgres + Drizzle), server (Bun, hosted on Render, auth (using the free Auth.j...

246 comments

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whooooot! it's been a wild ride thus far, but we've been super thrilled at how people are using it and can't wait for you all to try it out!

we've seen our own productivity increase tenfold – using codebuff to build buff our own code hah

let us know what you think!

I'm a big fan! It's better than cursor in many ways
Your comment is a bit suspicious given that your previous submissions are limited to manifold market links, and this tool came from that company.
Yes, he's the lead Manifold eng. Please discount appropriately.
HN spamtroturfing one of their own startups? I'm shocked, shocked!
Really uncool. You guys are getting a pretty positive reception here, this deceptive behavior shouldn’t have happened
This is much needed! Gonna try this out. I haven't seen a good tool that lets me generate code via CLI.
The ergonomics of using unit tests + this to pass said unit tests is actually pretty good. Just tried it.
Very excited for codebuff, its been a huge productivity boost for me! I've been putting it to use on a monorepo that has Go, Typescript, terraform and some sql and it always looks at the right files for the task. I like the UX way better than cursor - I like reviewing all changes at once and making minor tweaks when necessary. Especially for writing Go, i love being able to stick with Goland IDE while using codebuff.
Thanks for being one of our early users and dealing with our bugs! I love that we can fit into so many developers' workflows and support them where _they are_, as opposed to forcing them to use us for everything.
Comparison with Aider?
Great question!

In Codebuff you don't have to manually specify any files. It finds the right ones for you! It also pulls more files to get you a better result. I think this makes a huge difference in the ergonomics of just chatting to get results.

Codebuff also will run commands directly, so you can ask it to write unit tests and run them as it goes to make sure they are working.

> In Codebuff you don't have to manually specify any files.

Alright, I'm in.

Ah thanks, that's excellent! That is a massive issue for Aider; it was supposed to be solved, but last I tried I still had to do that manually.

Nice work!

That's why I like aider tbh. I know it's not going nuts on my repo.
I think Aider does this to save tokens/money. It supports a lot of models so you can have Claude as your architect and another cheap model that does the coding.
Yup, there's a tradeoff in $$$, but for a lot of people it should be worth it, since Codebuff can find more relevant files with example code that will make the output higher quality.
Aider does all of this too, and it has for quite a while. It just tends to ask you for explicit permission when e.g. adding files to the context (potentially token-expensive), creating new files, or running commands (potentially dangerous); AFAIR there's an option (both configuration and cli arg) to auto-approve those requests, though I never tried it.

Aider has extensive code for computing "repository map", with specialized handling for many programming languages; that map is sent to LLM to give it an overview of the project structure and summary of files it might be interested in. It is indeed a very convenient feature.

I never tried writing and launching unit tests via Aider, but from what I remember from the docs, it should work out of the box too.

Thanks for sharing – I definitely want to plays with Aider more. My knowledge of it is limited, but IIRC Aider doesn't pull in the right files to create context for itself like Codebuff does when making updates to your codebase.

Another aspect is simplicity. I think Aider and other CLI tools tend to err towards the side of configuration and more options, and we've been very intentional with Codebuff to avoid that. Not everyone values this, surely, but our users really appreciate how simple Codebuff is in comparison.

Aider very much does pull in the right files to create context for itself. It also uses treesitter to build a repo-map and then uses that as an initial reference for everything, asking you to add the files it thinks it needs for the context. As of quite recently it also supports adding files for context in explicit read-only mode. It works extremely well.

This is a good read: https://aider.chat/2023/10/22/repomap.html

Love the demo video! Three quick questions:

Any specific reason to choose the terminal as the interface? Do you plan to make it more extensible in the future? (sounds like this could be wrapped with an extension for any IDE, which is exciting)

Also, do you see it being a problem that you can't point it to specific lines of code? In Cursor you can select some lines and CMD+K to instruct an edit. This takes away that fidelity, is it because you suspect models will get good enough to not require that level of handholding?

Do you plan to benchmark this with swe-bench etc.?

We thought about making a VSCode extension/fork like everyone else, but decided that the future is coding agents that do most of the work for you.

The terminal is actually a great interface because it is so simple. It keeps the product focused to not have complex UI options. But also, we rarely thought we needed any options. It's enough to let the user say what they want in chat.

You can't point to specific lines, but Codebuff is really good at finding the right spot.

I actually still use Cursor to edit individual files because I feel it is better when you are manually coding and want to change just one thing there.

We do plan to do the SWE bench. It's mostly the new Sonnet 3.5 under the hood making the edits, so it should do about as well as Anthropic's benchmark for that, which is really high, 49%: https://www.anthropic.com/news/3-5-models-and-computer-use

Fun fact is that the new Sonnet was given two tools to do code edits and run terminal commands to reach this high score. That's pretty much what Codebuff does.

To add on, I know a lot of people see the terminal as cruft/legacy from the mainframe days. But it is a funny thing to look at tons of people's IDE setup and see that the one _consistent_ thing between them all is that they have a terminal nearby. It makes sense, too, since programs run in the terminal and you can only abstract so much to developers. And like James said, this sets us up nicely to build for a future of coding agents running around. Feels like a unique insight, but I dunno. I guess time will tell.
> I know a lot of people see the terminal as cruft/legacy from the mainframe days.

Hah. If you encounter people that think like this, run away because as soon as they finish telling you that terminals are stupid they inevitably want help configuring their GUI for k8s or git. After that, with or without a GUI, it turns out they also don’t understand version control / containers.

Will do Also forwarding to our competitors, but something tells me they will ignore this.
Noting Codebuff is manicode renamed.

It's become my go-to tool for handling fiddly refactors. Here’s an example session from a Rust project where I used it to break a single file into a module directory.

https://gist.github.com/cablehead/f235d61d3b646f2ec1794f656e...

Notice how it can run tests, see the compile error, and then iterate until the task is done? Really impressive.

For reference, this task used ~100 credits

Why is there stuff for Manifold Markets in the distributed package?

/codebuff/dist/manifold-api.js

https://www.npmjs.com/package/codebuff?activeTab=code

Haha, it's because I used to work on Manifold Markets!

Codebuff was originally called Manicode. We just renamed it this week actually.

There was meant to be a universe of "Mani" products. My other cofounder made Manifund, and there's a conference we made called Manifest!

but that doesn’t answer the question? are these test files?
Oh, it was a tool call I originally implemented so that Codebuff could look up the probabilities of markets to help it answer user questions.

I thought it would be fun if you asked it about the chance of the election or maybe something about AI capabilities, it could back up the answer by citing a prediction market.

Cause they wrote codebuff using codebuff.
They came out of Manifold. Though I acknowledge that doesn't really answer your question.
Looks awesome! Great work team.
> One user racked up a $500 bill by building out two Flutter apps in parallel.

Is that through the Enterprise plan?

Nope, if you go over the allotted credits on the $99 plan, then you pay per usage (with a 5% discount).

We actually ended up not charging this guy since there was a bug where we told him he got 50,000 credits instead of 10,000. Oops!

Can you speak more to how efficiency towards context management works (to reduce token costs)? Or are you loading up context to the brim with each request?
I think managing context is the most important aspect of today's coding agents. We pick only files we think would be relevant to the user request and add those. We generally pull more files than Cursor, which I think is an advantage.

However, we also try to leverage prompt-caching as much as possible to lower costs and improve latency.

So we basically only add files over time. Once context gets too large, it will purge them all and start again.

> However, we also try to leverage prompt-caching as much as possible to lower costs and improve latency.

Interesting! That does have 5 minute expiry on Claude, and your users can use Codebuff in an unoptimal way. Do you have plans in aligning your users towards using the tool in a way that makes the most use of prompt caches?

That's a really great point. Since we manage the context, we should clear the old files if it's been > 5 minutes. Thanks for the idea!
How did that bug occur? Was the code generated by your code generator?
I've been using Codebuff for the last few weeks, and it's been really nice for working in my Elixir repo. And as someone who uses Neovim in the terminal instead of VS Code, it's nice to actually be able to have it live in the tmux split beside Neovim instead of having to switch to a different editor.

I have noticed some small oddities, like every now and then it will remove the existing contents of a module when adding a new function, but between a quick glance over the changes using the diff command and our standard CI suite, it's always pretty easy to catch and fix.

Thanks for using Codebuff! Yeah, these edit issues are annoying, but I'm confident we can reduce the error rate a lot in the coming weeks.
The demos I see for these types of tools are always some toy project and doesn't reflect day to day work I do at all. Do you have any example PRs on larger more complex projects that have been written with codebuff and how much of that was human interactive?

The real problem I want someone to solve is helping me with the real niche/challenging portion of a PR, ex: new tiptap extension that can do notebook code eval, migrate legacy auth service off auth0, record and replay API GET requests and replay a % of them as unit tests, etc.

So many of these tools get stuck trying to help me "start" rather than help me "finish" or unblock the current problem I'm at.

I hear you. This is actually a foundational idea for Codebuff. I made it to work within the large-ish codebase of my previous startup, Manifold Markets.

I want the demos to be of real work, but somehow they never seem as cool unless it's a neat front end toy example.

Here is the demo video I sent in my application to YC, which shows it doing real stuff: https://www.loom.com/share/fd4bced4eff94095a09c6a19b7f7f45c?...

This comment makes me think of Coke vs. Pepsi.

Historically, Pepsi won taste tests and people chose Coke. Because Pepsi is sweeter, so that first sip tastes better. But it's less satisfying—too sweet—to drink a whole can.

The sexy demos don't, in my opinion and experience, win over the engineers and leaders you need. Lil startups, maybe, and engineers that love the flavor of the week. But for solving real, unsexy problems—that's where you'll pull in organizations.

> The sexy demos don't, in my opinion and experience, win over the engineers and leaders you need.

Great point, we're in talks with a company and this exact issue came up. An engineer used Codebuff over a weekend to build a demo app, but the CEO wasn't particularly interested even after he enthusiastically explained what he made. It was only when the engineer later used Codebuff to connect the demo app to their systems that the CEO saw the potential. Figuring out how to help these two stakeholders align with one another will be a key challenge for us as we grow. Thanks for the thought!

> Historically, Pepsi won taste tests and people chose Coke. Because Pepsi is sweeter, so that first sip tastes better. But it's less satisfying—too sweet—to drink a whole can.

As a Pepsi drinker (Though Pepsi Max/Zero), I disagree with this. That's one interpretation, the other is the one Pepsi was gesturing at - that people prefer Coke when knowing it's Coke, because of branding, but with branding removed, prefer Pepsi.

I personally drank Coke Zero for years, always being "unhappy" when a restaurant only had Pepsi, until one day I realized I was actually enjoying the Pepsi more when not thinking about it, and that the only reason I "preferred" Coke was the brand. So I know that this story can also be true, at least on n=1 examples.

Absolutely! Imaging setting a bunch of css styles through a long winded AI conversation, when you could have an IDE to do it in a few seconds. I don't need that.

The long tail of niche engineering problems is the time consuming bit now. That's not being solved at all, IMHO.

> ... setting a bunch of css styles through a long winded AI conversation

Any links on this topic you rate/could share?

"On the checkout page at the very bottom there are two buttons that are visible when the user chooses to select fast shipping. The right one of those buttons should be a tiny bit more round and it seems like it's not 100% vertically aligned with the other button."

Takes a lot longer to write than just diving into the code. I think that's what they meant.

Which IDE do you use for CSS editing/adjustment?
I mostly mean the text editing functionality I guess. Visual Studio Code is the IDE I use
It's pretty good for complex projects imo because codebuff can understand the structure of your codebase and which files to change to implement changes. It still struggles when there isn't good documentation, but it has helped me finish a number of projects
> It still struggles when there isn't good documentation

@Codebuff team, does it make sense to provide a documentation.md with exposition on the systems?

you can put the information into knowledge.md or [description].knowledge.md, but sometimes I can't find documentation and we're both learning as we go lmao
One cool thing you can do is a ask Codebuff to create these docs. In fact, we recommend it.

Codebuff natively reads any files ending in "knowledge.md", so you can add any extra info you want it to know to these files.

For example, to make sure Codebuff creates new endpoints properly, I wrote a short guide with an example on the three files you need to update, and put it in backend/api/knowledge.md. After that, Codebuff always create new endpoints correctly!

+1; Ideally I want a tool I don't have to specify the context for. If I can point it via config files at my medium-sized codebase once (~2000 py files; 300k LOC according to `cloc`) then it starts to get actually usable.

Cursor Composer doesn't handle that and seems geared towards a small handful of handpicked files.

Would codebuff be able to handle a proper sized codebase? Or do the models fundamentally not handle that much context?

Yes. Natively, the models are limited to 200k tokens which is on the order of dozens of files, which is way too small.

But Codebuff has a whole preliminary step where it searches your codebase to find relevant files to your query, and only those get added to the coding agent's context.

That's why I think it should work up to medium-large codebases. If the codebase is too large, then our file-finding step will also start to fail.

I would give it a shot on your codebase. I think it should work.

RAG is a well-known technique now, and to paraphrase Emily Bender[1], here are some reasons why it's not a solution.

The code extruded from the LLM is still synthetic code, and likely to contain errors both in the form of extra tokens motivated by the pre-training data for the LLM rather than the input texts AND in the form of omission. It's difficult to detect when the summary you are relying on is actually missing critical information.

Even if the set up includes the links to the retrieved documents, the presence of the generated code discourages users from actually drilling down and reading them.

This is still a framing that says: Your question has an answer, and the computer can give it to you.

1 https://buttondown.com/maiht3k/archive/information-literacy-...

We actually don't use RAG! It's not that good as you say.

We build a description of the codebase including the file tree and parsed function names and class names, and then just ask Haiku which files are relevant!

This works much better and doesn't require slowly creating an index. You can just run Codebuff in any directory and it works.

It sounds like it's arguably still a form of RAG, just where the retrieval is very different. I'm not saying that to knock your approach, just saying that it sounds like it's still the case where you're retrieving some context and then using that context to augment further generation. (I get that's definitely not what people think of when you say RAG though.)
Genuine question: at what point does the term RAG lose its meaning? Seems like LLMs work best when they have the right context, and that context must be pulled from somewhere for the LLM. But if that's RAG, then what isn't? Do you have a take on this? Been struggling to frame all this in my head, so would love some insight.
Not RAG: asking the LLM to generate using its internal weights only

RAG: providing the LLM with contextual data you’ve pulled from outside its weights that you believe relate to a query

Nice, super simple. We're definitely fitting into this definition of RAG then!
RAG is a search step in an attempt to put relevant context into a prompt before performing inference. You are “augmenting” the prompt by “retrieving” information from a data set before giving it to an LLM to “generate” a response. The data set may be the internet, or a code base, or text files. The typical examples online uses an embedding model and a vector database for the search step, but doing a web query before inference is also RAG. Perplexity.ai is a RAG (but fairly good quality). I would argue that Codebuff’s directory tree search to find relevant files is a search step. It’s not the same as a similarity search on vector embeddings, and it’s not PageRank, but it is a search step.

Things that aren’t RAG, but are also ways to get a LLM to “know” things that it didn’t know prior:

1. Fine-tuning with your custom training data, since it modifies the model weights instead of adding context. 2. LoRA with your custom training data, since it adds a few layers on top of a foundation model. 3. Stuffing all your context into the prompt, since there is no search step being performed.

Gotcha – so broadly encompasses how we give external context to the LLM. Appreciate the extra note about vector databases, that's where I've heard this term used most, but I'm glad to know it extends beyond that. Thanks for explaining!
I think parsimo2010 gave a good definition. If you're pulling context from somewhere using some search process to include as input to the LLM, I would call that RAG.

So I would not consider something like using a system prompt (which does add context, but does not involve search) would not be RAG. Also, using an LLM to generate search terms before returning query results would not be RAG because the output of the search is not input to the LLM.

I would also probably not categorize a system similar to Codebuff that just adds the entire repository as context to be RAG since there's not really a search process involved. I could see that being a bit of a grey area though.

> We build a description of the codebase including the file tree and parsed function names and class names

This sounds like RAG and also that you’re building an index? Did you just mean that you’re not using vector search over embeddings for the retrieval part, or have I missed something fundamental here?

Ah yeah, that's what I mean! I thought RAG is synonymous with this vector search approach.

Either way, we do the search step a little different and it works well.

I didn't mean to be down on it, and I'm really glad it's working well! If you start to reach the limits of what you can achieve with your current approach, there are lots of cute tricks you can steal from RAG, eg nothing stopping you doing a fuzzy keyword search for interesting-looking identifiers on larger codebases rather than giving the LLM the whole thing in-prompt, for example
Any kind of search prior for content to provide as context to the LLM prompt is RAG. The goal is to leverage traditional information retrieval as a source of context. https://cloud.google.com/use-cases/retrieval-augmented-gener...

I'm currently working on a demonstration/POC system using my ElasticSearch as my content source, generating embeddings from that content, and passing them to my local LLM.

It would be cool to be talking to other people about the RAG systems they’re building. I’m working in a silo at the moment, and pretty sure that I’m reinventing a lot of techniques
What's the fundamental limitation to context size here? Why can't a model be fine-tuned per codebase, taking the entire code into context (and be continuously trained as it's updated)?

Forgive my naivety, I don't now anything about LLMs.

I'll need to get approval to use this on that codebase. I've tried it out on a smaller open-source codebase as a first step.

For anyone interested:

  - here's the Codebuff session: https://gist.github.com/craigds/b51bbd1aa19f2725c8276c5ad36947e2
  - The result was this PR: https://github.com/koordinates/kart/pull/1011
It required a bit of back and forth to produce a relatively small change, and I think it was a bit too narrow with the files it selected (it missed updating the implementations of a method in some subclasses, since it didn't look at those files)

So I'm not sure if this saved me time, but it's nevertheless promising! I'm looking forward to what it will be capable of in 6mo.

Great question – we struggled for a long time to put our demo together precisely for this reason. Codebuff is so useful in a practical setting, but we can't bore the audience with a ton of background on a codebase when we do demos, so we have to pick a toy project. Maybe in the future, we could start our demo with a half-built project?

Hopefully the demo on our homepage shows a little bit more of your day-to-day workflows than other codegen tools show, but we're all ears on ways to improve this!

To give a concrete example of usefulness, I was implementing a referrals feature in Drizzle a few weeks ago, and Codebuff was able to build out the cli app, frontend, backend, and set up db schema (under my supervision, of course!) because of its deep understanding of our codebase. Building the feature properly requires knowing how our systems intersect with one another and the right abstraction at each point. I was able to bounce back and forth with it to build this out. It felt akin to working with a great junior engineer, tbh!

EDIT: another user shared their use cases here! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42079914

(comment deleted)
If you're not worried about showing off little hints of your own codebase, record running it on one of your day to day engineering tasks. It's perfect dog fooding and would be a fun meta example.

> To give a concrete example of usefulness, I was implementing a referrals feature in Drizzle a few weeks ago, and Codebuff was able to build out the cli app, frontend, backend, and set up db schema

Record this!

Better yet, stream it on Twitch and/or YouTube and/or Discord and build a small community of followers.

People would love to watch you.

Great idea! We were kicking around something like this, but couldn't get it ready in time for today's launch – but keep your eyes peeled! Our Discord community is a great place to stay up to date.

Yup, I had the same thought. I just ran into an issue during today's launch and used Codebuff to help me resolve it: https://www.tella.tv/video/solving-website-slowdown-with-ai-.... Next time, I'll try to record before I start working, but it's hard to rememeber sometimes.

Why not take a large and complex code-base such as the firefox source code, feed that in and demonstrate how that goes?
Kind of like "please describe the solution and I will write code to do it". That's not how programming works. Writing code and testing it against expectations to get to the solution, that's programming.
Language is important here. Programming, at its basic definition, is just writing code that programs a machine. Software development or even design/engineering are closer to what you’re referring to.
FWIW I don't find that I'm losing good engineering habits/thought processes. Codebuff is not at the stage where I'm comfortable accepting its work without reviewing, so I catch bugs it introduces or edge cases it's missed. The main difference for me is the speed at which I can build now. Instead of fussing over exact syntax or which package does what, I can keep my focus on the broader implications of a particular architecture or nuances of components, etc.

I will admit, however, that my context switching has increased a ton, and that's probably not great. I often tell Codebuff to do something, inevitably get distracted with something else, and then come back later barely remembering the original task

> ex: new tiptap extension that can do notebook code eval

Claude wrote me a prosemirror extension doing a bunch of stuff that I couldn’t figure out how to do myself. It was very convenient.

Every experience I have had with LLMs generating code. LLMs tend to follow the prompt much too closely and produce large amounts of convoluted code that in the end prove not only unnecessary but quite toxic.

Where LLMs shine is in being a personal Stack Overflow: asking a question and having a personalized, specific answer immediately, that uses one's data.

But solving actual, real problems still seem out of reach. And letting them touch my files sound crazy.

(And yes, ok, maybe I just suck at prompting. But I would need detailed examples to be convinced this approach can work.)

I'm sure your prompting is great! It's just hard because LLMs tend to be very wordy by default. This was something we struggled with for a while, but I think we've done a good job at making Codebuff take a more minimal approach to code edits. Feel free to try it, let me know if it's still too wordy/convoluted for you.
> LLMs tend to follow the prompt much too closely

> produce large amounts of convoluted code that in the end prove not only unnecessary but quite toxic.

What does that say about your prompting?

> Do you have any example PRs on larger more complex projects that have been written with codebuff and how much of that was human interactive?

We have a lot of code in production which are AI written. The important thing is that you need to consciously make a module or project AI-ready. This means that things like modularity and smaller files are even more important than they usually are.

I can't share those PRs, but projects on my profile page are almost entirely AI written (except the https://bashojs.org/ link). Some of them might meet your definition of niche based on the example you provided.

This is so REAL: LLMs suck probably because your modularity sucks LOL
Watching the demo it seems like it would be more effective to learn the skills you need rather than using this for a decade.

It takes 5+ seconds just to change one field to dark mode, I don't even want to imaigne a situation where I have two fields and I want to explain that I need to change this field and not that field.

I'm not sure who is the target audience for this, people who want to be programmers without learning programming ?

My 2c as someone who worked on a similar product:

> it seems like it would be more effective to learn the skills you need rather than using this for a decade.

Think of it as a calculator. You do want to be able to do addition, but not neccessarily to manually add 4-digit numbers in your head.

> It takes 5+ seconds just to change one field to dark mode

Our current LLMs are way too slow for this. I am chuckling every time someone says "we don't need LLMs to be faster because people can't read faster". Imagine this using Groq with a future model with similar capability level, and taking 0.5 seconds to do this small change.

People need to remember we're at the very beginning of using AI for coding. Of course it's suboptimal for majority of cases. Unless you believe we're way past half the sigmoid curve on AI improvements (which I don't), consider that this is the worst the AI is ever going to be for coding.

A year ago people were incredulous when told that AI could code. A year before that people would laugh you out of the room. Now we're at the stage where it kinda works, barely, sometimes. I'm bullish on the future.

I've been playing with Codebuff for a few days (building out some services with Node.js + Typescript) - been working beautifully! Feels like I'm watching a skilled surgeon at work.
A skilled surgeon is a great analogy! We actually instruct Codebuff to focus on making the most minimal edits, so that it does precisely what you want.
Allowing LLMs to execute unrestricted commands without human review is risky and insecure.
Yes, this is a good point. I think not asking to run commands is maybe the most controversial choice we've made so far.

The reason we don't ask for human review is simply: we've found that it works fine to not ask.

We've had a few hundred users so far and usually people are skeptical of this at first, but as they use it they find that they don't want it to ask for every command. It enables cool use cases where Codebuff and iterate by running tests, seeing the error, attempting a fix, and running them again.

If you use source control like git, I also think that it's very hard for things to go wrong. Even if it ran rm -rf from your project directory, you should be able to undo that.

But here's the other thing: it won't do that. Claude is trained to be careful about this stuff and we've further prompted it to be careful.

I think not asking to run commands is the future of coding agents, so I hope you will at least entertain this idea. It's ok if you don't want to trust it, we're not asking you to do anything you are uncomfortable with.

> it won't do that. Claude is trained to be careful about this stuff and we've further prompted it to be careful.

Could you please explain a bit how you are sure about it?

It's mainly from experience. From when I set it up I didn't have the feature to ask whether to run commands. It has been rawdogging commands this whole time and has never been a problem for me.

I think we have many other users who are similar. To be fair, sometimes after watching it install packages with npm, people are surprised and say that they would have preferred that it asked. But usually this is just the initial reaction. I'm pretty confident this is the way forward.

Do you have any sandbox-like restrictions in place to ensure that commands are limited to only touching the project folder not any other places in the system?
We always reset the directory back to the project directory on each command, so that helps.

But we're open to adding more restrictions so that it can't for example run `cd /usr && rm -rf .`

How about executing commands in a VM (perhaps Firecracker)?
You can use pledge[1] to restrict the tool to read/write only in specific directories, or only use certain system calls. This is easier to run than from a container or VM, but can be a bit fiddly to setup at first.

Assuming you trust it with the files in your codebase, and them being shared with third parties. Which is a hard pill to swallow for a proprietary program.

[1]: https://justine.lol/pledge/

I am not afraid of rm -rf whole directory. I am afraid of other stuff that it can do to my machines. leak my ssh keys, cookies, persnal data, network devices, and making persistent modifications (malware) to my system. Or maybe inadvertently messing with my python version, or globally installing some library to mess up whole system.
I, as a well-intending human, have run commands that broke my local python install. At least I was vaguely aware of what I did, and was able to fix things. If I didn't know what had happened I'd be pretty lost.
You'd hope that most of it is just rm -rf .venv && poetry install, or similar.
It's strange that all the closed models whose mentioned reasons for being closed is safety is allowing this, and banning the apps which allows for erotic roleplay all the time. Roleplay is significantly less dangerous than full shell control.
Does Codebuff / the tree sitter implementation support Svelte?
Yes, at least, partially. It will work, but maybe not as well as we don't parse out the function names from .svelte files.

I can add it if tree sitter adds support for Svelte. I haven't checked, maybe it already is supported?

Your website has a serious issue. Trying to play the YouTube video makes the page slow down to a crawl, even in 1080p, while playing it on YouTube directly has no issue, even in 4K.

On the project itself, I don't really find it exciting at all, I'm sorry. It's just another wrapper for a 3rd party model, and the fact that you can 1) describe the entire workflow in 3 paragraphs, and 2) built it and launched it in around 4 months, emphasizes that.

Congrats on launch I guess.

Weird, thanks for flagging – we're just using a Youtube embed in an iframe but I'll take a look.

No worries if this isn't a good fit for you. You're welcome to try it out for free anytime if you change your mind!

FWIW I wasn't super excited when James first showed me the project. I had tried so many AI code editors before, but never found them to be _actually usable_. So when James asked me to try, I just thought I'd be humoring him. Once I gave it a real shot, I found Codebuff to be great because of its form factor and deep context awareness: CLI allows for portability and system integration that plugins or extensions really can't do. And when AI actually understands my codebase, I just get a lot more done.

Not trying to convince you to change your mind, just sharing that I was in your shoes not too long ago!

I would really rethink your value proposition.

> CLI allows for portability and system integration that plugins or extensions really can't do

In the past 6 or 7 years I haven't written a single line of code outside of a JetBrains IDE. Same thing for all of my team (whether they use JetBrains IDEs or VS Code), and I imagine for the vast majority of developers.

This is not a convincing argument for the vast majority of people. If anything, the fact that it requires a tool OUTSIDE of where they write code is an inconvenience.

> And when AI actually understands my codebase, I just get a lot more done.

But Amazon Q does this without me needing to type anything to instruct it, or to tell it which files to look at. And, again, without needing to go out of my IDE.

Having to switch to a new tool to write code using AI is a huge deterrent and asking for it is a reckless choice for any company offering those tools. Integrating AI in tools already used to write code is how you win over the market.

> Your website has a serious issue.

I was thinking the same. My (admittedly old-ish) 2070 Super runs at 25-30% just looking at the landing page. Seems a bit crazy for a basic web page. I'm guessing it's the background animation.

    > I'm sorry. It's just another wrapper for a 3rd party model
The main challenge with working with LLMs is actually one of "ETL" and understanding what data to load and how to transform it into some form that leads to the desired output.

For trivial tasks, this is certainly easy. For complicated tasks, like understanding a codebase or a product catalog of tens of thousands of entries, this is non-trivial.

My team is not working in the code gen space, but even though we also "just wrap" an API, almost all of our work is in data acquisition, transformation, the retrieval strategy, and structuring of the request context.

The API call to the LLM is like hitting "bake" on an oven: all of the real work happens before that.

Couldn't get through the video, your keyboard sounds are very annoying.
Sorry Will try an external keyboard next time!
Quality of code wise, is it worse or better than Cursor? I pay for Cursor now and it saves me a LOT of time to not copy files around. I actually still use the chatGPT/claude interfaces to code as well.
Cool, it's probably about the same, since we're both using the new Sonnet 3.5 for coding.

We might have a bit of an advantage because we pull more files as context so the edit can be more in the style of your existing code.

One downside to use pulling more context is we burn more tokens. That's partly why we have to charge $99 whereas cursor is $20 per month.

It might sound small, but pulling in more context can make a huge difference – I remember one time Cursor completely hallucinated Prisma as part of our tech stack and created a whole new schema for us, whereas Codebuff knew we were already hooked up to Drizzle and just modified our existing schema. But like James said, we do use more tokens to do this, so pros & cons.
If its the same, hard to justify $100/month vs $20/month . I code mostly from vim so I'm searching for my vim/cli replacement while I still use both vim and Cursor.
Ah, but in Cursor you (mostly) have to manually choose files to edit and then approve all the changes.

With Codebuff, you just chat from the terminal. After trying it, I think you might not want to go back to Cursor haha.

That sounds cool and I like the idea, but definitely won't pay 5x. Maybe charge $30/month plus bring your own key. Let me know when you lower the price :)
What if you have a microservice system with a repo-per-service setup, where to add functionality to a FE site you would have to edit code in three or four specific repos (FE site repo + backend service repo + API-client npm package repo + API gateway repo) out of hundreds of total repos?
This does seem to be suited to monorepo.
Yes, unfortunately, Codebuff will only read files within one directory (and sub-directories).

If you have multiple repos, you could create a directory that contains them all, and that should work pretty well!

Codebuff works on a local directory level, so it technically doesn't have to be a monorepo (though full disclaimer: our codebase is a monorepo and that's where we use it most). Most important thing is to make sure you have the projects in the same root directory so you can access them together. I've used it in a setup with two different repos in the same folder. That said, it might warn you that there's not .git folder at the root level when this happens.
Are there any plans to add a sandbox? This seems cool, but it seems susceptible to prompt injection attacks when for example asking questions about a not necessarily trusted open source codebase.
We might! You could also set up your project within a docker container pretty simply (Codebuff would be great at setting that up :P).
Amazing stuff! The rebrand is great and it's cool to read the whole story!
brilliant - and thank you - so impressed with your work, i finally made an account to just comment - out of the box worked, a few minor glitches, but this is the start of awesome. keep doing what you are doing.
Amazing, good to hear! What were the minor glitches you encountered? Would love to fix them up.
Are you an adept sysadmin, cloud architect, and/or data engineer?

It’s a weird catch-22 giving praise like that to LLMs.

If you are, then you might be able to intuit and fill in the gaps left my the LLM and not even know it.

And if you’re not, then how could you judge?

Not really much to do with that you were saying, really, just a thought I had.

I'd assume the person giving the praise is at least a bit of all 3.

> It’s a weird catch-22 giving praise like that to LLMs.

It's a bit asymmetrical though isn't it -- judging quality is in fact much easier than producing it.

> you might be able to intuit and fill in the gaps left my the LLM and not even know it

Just because you are able to fill gaps with it doesn't mean it's not good. With all of these tools you basically have to fill gaps. There are still differences between Cline vs Cursor vs Aider vs Codebuff.

Personally I've found Cline to be the best to date, followed by Cursor.

> judging quality is in fact much easier than producing it

There’s still a skill floor required to accurately judge something.

A layman can’t accurately judge the work of a surgeon.

> Just because you are able to fill gaps with it doesn't mean it's not good.

If I had to fill in my sysadmin’s knowledge gaps I wouldn’t call them a good sysadmin.

Not saying the tool isn’t useful, mind you, just playing semantics with calling a tool a “good sysadmin” or whatever.

> There’s still a skill floor required to accurately judge something.

Sure but it's not high at all.

Your typical sysadmin is doing a lot of Googling. If perplexity can tell you exactly what to do 90% of the time without error, that's a pretty good sysadmin.

Your typical programmer is doing a lot of googling and write-eval loops. If you are doing many flawless write-eval loops with the help of cline, cline is a pretty good programmer.

A lot of things AI is helping with also have good, easy to observe / generate, real-time metrics you can use to judge excellence.

> Sure but it's not high at all.

It depends. For a sysadmin maybe not, but for data scientists, the bar would be pretty high just to understand the math jargon.

> If perplexity can tell you exactly what to do 90% of the time without error

That “if” is carrying a lot of weight. Anecdotally I haven’t seen any llm be correct 90% of the time. IIRC SOTA on swebench (which tbf isn’t a great benchmark) is around 30%.

> flawless write-eval loops with the help of cline, cline is a pretty good programmer.

I’m not really sure what you mean by “flawless” but having a rubber duck is always more helpful than harmful.

> A lot of things AI is helping with also have good, easy to observe / generate, real-time metrics you can use to judge excellence.

Like what?

> A lot of things AI is helping with also have good, easy to observe / generate, real-time metrics you can use to judge excellence.

Exactly what I illustrated earlier: your developer productivity metrics. If you're turning code around faster, setting up your network better, turning around insights faster, the AI is working.

> It depends. For a sysadmin maybe not, but for data scientists, the bar would be pretty high just to understand the math jargon.

Why does an AI coding agent need to understand math jargon -- it just helps you write better code. Are you even familiar with what data scientists do? Seems not because if you were, you'd see clearly where the tool would be applied and do a good/bad job.

Reminder: we're talking about evaluating whether Codebuff / alternatives are "pretty good" at X. Just go play with the tools. tgtweak expressed their opinion on how good the tool rates at some tasks {sysadmin, data engineering, cloud architecture} and your response was to question how someone could have an opinion about it. The obvious answer is that they used the tools and found it useful for those tasks. It may only be _subjectively_ good at what they're using for but it's also a rando's opinion on the internet. As another rando I very much agree with what the person you responded to is saying. You're not going to get more rigor from this discourse - go form a real opinion of your own.

Wow… why’d you get so defensive and presumptuous?

I have my opinion, it’s just not the same as yours.

Label it what you want, I'm responding directly to questions you posed.

> I have my opinion, it’s just not the same as yours.

This is literally the TL;DR for what I wrote.

I would consider myself adept at all three, not top 1% in either but the intersection of all 3 easily.

Context I have hired hundreds of engineers and built many engineering teams from scratch to 50+, and have been doing systems administration, solutions architecture, infrastructure design, devops, cloud orchestration and data platform design for 25 years.

I'm not bluffing when I say Claude's latest sonnet model and Cline in vscode has really been 99th percentile good on everything I've thrown at it (with some direction, as needed) and has done more productive, quality work than a team of 10 engineers in the last week alone.

If you haven't tried it I can understand your pessimism.

I haven’t built engineering teams, but I’ve been in the server programming field for 15 years.

I have tried Claude (with aider) for programming tasks and have been impressed that it could do anything (with handholding) but haven’t been convinced that it’s something that will change how I write code forever.

It’s nice that I can describe how to graph some data in a csv and get 80% of the way there in python after a few rounds of clarification. Claude refused to use seaborn for some reason, but that’s no big deal.

Every time I’ve tried using it for work, though, I was sorely disappointed.

I recently convinced myself that it was pretty helpful in building a yjs backed text editor, but last week realized that it led me down an incorrect path with regards to the prosemirror plugin and I had to rewrite a good chunk of the code.

Extra context length looks valuable! Excited to try this out!