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fsflover
The announcement from Google: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42845017
dang
That's actually a blog post from rebble.io. I added a link to the open-source repo to the top text there. Is there an actual announcement from Google?
nickthegreek
google announcement: https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/see-code-that-powe...

pebbleOS repo: https://github.com/google/pebble

daemonologist
I like the one wrist in the photo with no watch lol. (The header photo for the Google announcement is of a bunch of people huddled around the camera showing the Pebbles they're wearing, but one person is just holding out their arm sans Pebble.)
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billybuckwheat
Excited (cautiously) about this. Loved my Pebble Time and was gutted when 1) Pebble bit the dust, and 2) my Pebble vanished down that black hole things like small devices and the other sock invariably go down. If this happens, I hope they can keep the revived Pebbles just smart enough and rebuild the app ecosystem. Best of luck, folks. I'm cheering you on from the sidelines!
bigiain
Also cautious. Extremely cautions.

I got rug pulled by "the pebble team" the first time, leaving me with 3 watches they effectively bricked.. Not gonna sign up for that again.

(I got a refund on my last Pebble order. When the money showed up I drunk-ebayed a 2nd hand ~40 year old mechanical watch. I now have about 20 wind up or mechanical auto winding watches. I do have a few chinese ~$40 "smart watches" that do an OK job of notifications on my wrist, and a somewhat questionable job of heartrate and blood pressure monitoring, and one that produces totally random numbers for blood glucose reading whether it's on my wrist or not. I almost never wear any of those. I've got a Watchy kit, and open source epaper ESP32 watch, but I've had it maybe a year and haven't found the enthusiasm to assemble it.)

billybuckwheat
True. I used it after Pebble went away -- Gadgetbridge helped extend the watch's life a few more years. I bought a PineTime as a sort of replacement for my Pebble Time about 18 months ago. An OK watch and, as one blogger I read noted, it's just smart enough.
hoherd
I never had a pebble. Also, I was really skeptical of the Flipper Zero, but my curiosity finally got the best of me and I bought one. I love their app ecosystem and the whole experience of using it. If Pebble 2 has that kind of UX, it's going to be really awesome.
taeric
First, let me say it is always fun to see people having fun with hobbies like this. Cool to see them making headway and having fun!

I'm curious what the specific pitch is on this device? I have, so far, avoided Garmin in the watch space, but I'm growing very short on justifications for that. Would love to hear what the general value add for other options is.

eab-
The notifications aren't great, and the non-e-ink screen is a bit annoying. Also the low amount of physical buttons.

But as someone who bought an OG Pebble and now has a Vivoactive 3, I think the fitness features are too nice to switch back fully to Pebble. Although I'll be very glad to see Pebble back!

ClassyJacket
Which watch has an e-ink(/epaper) display? I can only think of Watchy. Pebble was LCD.
bitdivision
No, pebble was definitely e-ink. And I think the most recent ones had colour epaper.

Edit: Sorry, looking further down I see that they say epaper, which is not the same: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42845508

It looks like they're memory in pixel (MIP) displays, which are basically reflective LCDs I think.

jsheard
> It looks like they're memory in pixel (MIP) displays, which are basically reflective LCDs I think.

Reflective LCDs with embedded memory, hence the name. Normal LCDs need to be refreshed continuously, but MIP LCDs remember the last frame and efficiently refresh themselves, so the CPU is free to go into deep sleep as long as the display is static.

Avamander
I'm pretty sure they were transreflective LCDs with an FPGA to handle the low-power refresh.
FuriouslyAdrift
Not a "normal" one, though...

"black and white memory LCD using an ultra low-power "transflective LCD" manufactured by Sharp"

mikestew
"Normal" enough that many of Garmin's watches still use MIP LCD...which is what the Pebble used.
ramses0
Garmin Fenix 7 (and potentially Garmin Fenix 8 Solar) are reasonably button-y and kindof work "right" from a pebble fan.

The biggest miss for most smartwatches is "buttons", "battery life" and "sunlight-readable screen".

Buttons work without sight, buttons work in the shower (next track, volume, scrolling a notification, declining a phone call, stopping a timer), buttons can be "memorized", you can navigate buttons while riding a bike, and "button-centric" means you're focused on _only the essential_ capabilities. Ok. Next/Prev. Cancel/Back. Long-Press for shortcuts or confirmations. The discipline of designing for small, focused, essential interactions is so much better (when done well) than attempting to stab react components shifting around on your wrist or swiping in random directions on a slow-to-respond screen.

Charging "every other week" means I can go on a weeks vacation, charge the watch before going, and not need to worry about or bring another charger.

Sunlight-readable (non-lighted, non-distracting) screen means I can glance down and see the current time [with no wrist movement], and I don't have a bright light turning on and off (most of the time).

The biggest miss for the Fenix compared to Pebble is/was "The Timeline" from Pebble. On the home screen, you could basically scroll through your upcoming calendar events to kindof keep you on track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYZoWS0QxI8

The biggest opportunity for "Pebble2.0" is the hybrid button/scroll feature from Garmin Fenix. Fenix has an option to "pinch" opposing buttons for ~3 seconds to enable/disable the touch screen. Additionally, the touch screen can be used for (eg) scrolling a map around. To me, this is great as I _very rarely_ want to accidentally brush the screen (or have a toddler poking at it) and messing with things... but being able to "opt-in" to touch-screen under specific apps or circumstances is actually a really cool compromise!

Needless to say, I'm an insta-buy for Pebble, and very hopeful (especially since the O.S. is open source?!?!) that they'll steward us functionality-based watch nerds in the right direction!

2OEH8eoCRo0
The Garmin Fenix 8 is $1,099
drawkward
And worth every penny. (I say this as a former pebble and then rebble user.)
2OEH8eoCRo0
I moved from Pebble to Casio F-91W. Worth every penny!
drawkward
Different users; different needs!
camtarn
Ha, I actually did the same, albeit after using a succession of disappointing Fitbits. In the end I realised that what I mainly cared about was having the time on my wrist, and I could leave everything else. So I ended up with the steel strap, EL-illuminated version of the F-91W.
ramses0
I recently did this band-swap "new" for a total of like $70 all-in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/casio/comments/13yy4nh/world_time_o...

I can also strongly recommend the Timex Expedition (analog) with easy-set alarm, and the Casio WV-58 styles.

The easyset alarm is described here: https://youtu.be/v6Fdt5y3p9A ...and it's super useful! I have like 4 versions now since supplementing and band-replacing my original from actual 1999... unfortunately you've got to chase eBay on those nowadays.

The waveceptor isn't that expensive and I use it as my "reference watch" when setting my other watches since it's atomic.

ramses0
I finally found a used 7 for $300 on FB marketplace, only 2-3 months ago. I still swallowed real hard before buying it, but I'm satisfied enough with it that even with the 7, I've been nosing around to see if any 8-solar (presumably transflective, not OLED) are around in the ~$500 price range.

Pebble Time Steel debuted at $250 in 2015, ~$350 in todays dollars, and the Fenix is much more capable not just the hardware but also health tracking.

That's why a comeback pebble is worth supporting (for me). Fenix has decent/"fun" SDK apps, but their core UX is only moderately good. I still get confused about which button to use to get to apps vs quicklooks vs data widgets vs shortcuts, and setting a 15 minute timer is way more confusing than it should be.

Apple: max 3 days battery life, and that's in the $800+ price range

AmazFit: maybe? but never enough to risk over $100-200 and no great "has buttons" option

BangleJS: no buttons.

PineTime: no buttons.

YadaYadaYada: no battery, oled screen, no buttons, or no customization

Getting another Pebble for $300 retail or $200 used with full backwards compat, their SDK and emulator, and a path forward? Sign me up!

seltzered_
I'm not sure you can put it in MBA language like 'specific pitch' or 'value add', you had to try it and see if it felt right for you.

The watch had a pretty coherent ux flow for a non-touchscreen device, and could be easily used with gloves on without even looking at the watch in some scenarios (e.g. shortcutting to music controls). It later paired some unique animations to make things feel friendly and a bit quirky ( https://www.slashgear.com/pebble-hires-webos-designers-for-u... ).

Also there was a pretty decent hobbyist/maker culture around the watch with the ideas of add-on accessories, etc.

The challenge from a business standpoint mightve been needing to provide vc-backed startup returns without killing the culture that loved the product. I think they were trying to find a way to do a subscription for extra services.

taeric
Fair that I do seem to be asking for MBA speak. Not my intent.

For me, the big mental block is that I can't think of much I want to do from my watch. A readable screen is obviously nice. So is advanced battery life. But, if I'm going to be dipping into health tracking, it seems Garmin is the baseline there.

The UX flow is one that has me somewhat intrigued. How often are you interacting with the device? And for what reasons?

ryukafalz
The big ones for me were/are media controls and seeing what's next on my calendar. Because of the physical buttons I can pause my music/skip songs/adjust volume without even looking at the screen.

Bluetooth headphones often have media controls but in my experience they tend to be hard to use on wireless earbuds due to their size. Using my Pebble is much easier. No other smartwatch I've used has done this quite as well.

Timon3
I really enjoyed my Pebble for waking up in the morning (vibration feels much softer to me than a loud alarm) and media control, e.g. while showering. The display read well passively, and I only had to charge it every couple of days.

The only experience that came close were hybrid smartwatches (analog, but with vibrations, 3 programmable buttons and the pointers could move to indicate apps). Longer battery life, but very closed off (can't sync alarms from external sources) and the phone bridge stopped working after some time.

seltzered_
Same answer as this person.

Snoozing alarms and music controls without even looking at the watch (e.g. while in bed, or while walking/snowboarding/etc.) were really neat.

And it kinda begs a question of how much should one want from a device. What is 'enough' so that one doesn't get emotionally attached to it being so expensive it alters behavior with it?

I lost my pebble se after jogging one day, and haven't purchased another one yet (many were too heavy, big, or feature-laden at a much higher price). I sold my original pebble to a bus driver who happened to already have one and presumably just liked having a cheap simple smartwatch for handling notifications and alarms.

tetromino_
I went through two Garmins. Both failed in under 2 years (random freezes, random reboots, eventually leading to bricking). Fitness tracking and GPS would activate by themselves at random times for no visible reason. Buttons sometimes wouldn't register. The proprietary charging cable was terribly designed - after a couple months, the springs inevitably fail and it starts losing contact with the watch, needing fiddling with the exact angle, blowing on the contacts, weighing down or attaching with scotch tape when charging for an extended time, etc.; basically, one learns to treat Garmin charging cables as a short-lived consumable. The software stack at least on Android is awful, and it's very hard to get your data out of it.

Considering how much these thing are hyped, I gaslit myself into thinking my first watch was a rare lemon, which is why I replaced it with another Garmin; but I won't be fooled again.

rconti
Their software is pretty bad but the hardware has been pretty bulletproof for me and I've certainly never had one randomly freeze or reboot in the decade+ I've been using them. These are forerunners though. I haven't used their "fancier" watches.
tetromino_
I had the Instinct Solar. Not sure if it counts as "fancy", but it certainly was not reliable!
zem
I've had a garmin for ~3 weeks now. amy #2 use for a watch (after telling the time, of course) is to read texts without pulling out my phone, and so far the garmin ux for that has been way worse than the pebble's. (not really used the fitness features much other than step tracking, which the pebble also did)
tombert
Man, I got rid of my Pebble once they dropped support. I love my current smartwatch, but I would have loved the e-ink concept continuously iterated.
jsheard
> I would have loved the e-ink concept continuously iterated.

I'm probably gonna sound like a broken record in this thread but the Pebble never used e-ink, it used a MIP LCD, and MIP never went away. Lots of sports watches use the exact same display technology from the exact same supplier (Sharp) to this day.

tombert
Fair enough!

I was positive that some of the hype and/or marketing around it called e-ink but it looks like either my recollection is bad, or the hype was wrong.

jsheard
Pebble were always careful to use the generic term "e-paper", which some people assumed to be the same thing as e-ink, but it's a different technology. Besides, e-ink is actually a trademark so they couldn't call it that anyway.

E-inks claim to fame is using zero power when static, but it has very sluggish pixel response times, while MIP LCDs use very little (but not zero) power when static and have fast pixel response times when dynamic.

tombert
Yep, that is probably where my confusion came from.
culi
Which watches currently use MiP LCD?
jsheard
Garmin, Coros, Suunto and Polar all make fitness watches with MIP displays. Some of them sell a mixture of MIP and OLED models though, so check the specs. If you want extremely long battery life above all else then the Coros Pace 3 is a good starting point.
cafed00d
Google has become cool again!
joshstrange
By dumping a codebase they aren't using?
cafed00d
It could be much worse: how many projects simply die because they’re locked away in a corporate basement because some corporate attorney decided it’s “too risky to leak IP”

Despite all the layoffs & black founding fathers debacles Google as an institution has had recently, it still has the systems in place to let passionate engineering projects see the light of day.

That’s really cool!

girvo
My Pebble Time Round is still the single best piece of tech I have ever owned and used, and I miss it every day.

If it can be brought back, I’d pay whatever is necessary, and I’d love to contribute now that I’ve spent many years doing embedded firmware development professionally!

INTPenis
I'm glad. For a decade I felt like an outsider because all I want is a very simple wearable device that doesn't require charging more than once a month and can display simple notifications from my phone, and the time.

I loved the Pebble Time. After that I went over to Fossil Hybrid, which is pretty decent actually. I'm sure the app steals everything it can but at least the device works.

jampekka
Amazfit watches have done this for since 2016 or so. And cheaply.
culi
watch(es)? As in you've had to replace them regularly? Hopefully Pebble takes seriously the "sustainbly" part of their relaunch. What you're describing sounds like everything I wanna avoid
mikestew
WTF? No, as in “Amazfit makes more than one model of watch”. It’s a hard left into the weeds to come away with your interpretation.
normalaccess
I had an amazfit watch, didn't quite scratch the pebble itch and it has been relegated to the IT junk drawer. The thing I miss the most is the pebble display. I don't need heart rate, I don't need GPS, I don't need sleep tracking, I just want a watch that shows my notifications and has a great battery life.

I am pleased they are coming back!

INTPenis
Ok maybe I should say it's not only the charge time, but also the e-ink (like?) display that captivates me. The fact that I can always look at my watch and see the time, other people can look at my watch and see the time. No flicks of the wrist required, no always on OLED display.

I honestly enjoy the Fossil Hybrid more than the Pebble Time, because it has an actual watch with a screen behind the hands.

jampekka
Early models had a transreflective displays, newer models sadly don't.
kilroy123
Does this mean things have worked out with Beeper? What will happen with that? I noticed development seemed to have stopped. It's nothing like it was before.
erohead
Things worked out! We got acquired. Heads down on merging - https://ericmigi.com/blog/why-were-bringing-pebble-back
bullen
Hi, please support vanilla linux phones this time?
5-
you probably meant to link https://blog.beeper.com/2024/04/09/beeper-is-joining-automat...

between this new/old enterprise of yours and the other stuff going on with automattic i am worried about beeper. sadly as i'm not allowed to pay for it i don't have a tangible stake in the product, so i can only ask nicely for a more explicit statement of future plans.

it'd be a shame to see beeper (+texts) collapse.

KishanBagaria
beeper + texts are very much under active development. we're working on the next-gen merged apps which is why you haven't seen many updates to the old desktop/ios apps.

we're also actively testing the new apps w a small group of beta testers, hmu if you want to try.

joshstrange
I loved my Pebble al the way up to when the first Apple Watch came out. Yes, the battery life is nowhere near as good but the integration into the OS was way better and they have steadily added health features that I appreciate (fall detection, afib, etc). Maybe the Pebble could match some/all of that but I have my doubts. It was a great little device but longer battery life is just not that compelling to me.

I mean sure, if you offer me hours/days more of battery I'm not going to turn it down but for me (and my lifestyle, which is not yours, I get that) I don't need more than ~16hrs. Anything longer than that just helps "catch" me if I forget to charge. And that right there gets to the crux of why >24hr batteries rarely matter to me. The only battery charging processes that work for me are either:

* Every day

* Only when it's dead or I know I'm about to use it

With my Pebble I would regularly find it dead because I lost track of how many days it had been since I charged it and I'd have to charge it at an inconvenient time. I fixed this by just charging every night. So since I'm already in that habit, a longer battery doesn't do much for me. And in case you were wondering what types of things fall in the second category for me, it's things like USB battery packs, flashlights, smart house sensors that aren't wired, Airtags, etc.

Avamander
Apple watch feels soulless and corporate, the app (and feature) selection is still practically abysmal compared to what Pebble had to offer. The walls Apple has built have not helped at all. I haven't even found an actually fun small game to play on the loo on it. It's sad.
ashirviskas
Your strategy might work for you, but for me using a smartwatch that only had 30h of battery life was super painful. One of the reasons I use a smartwatch is for sleep tracking (+alarms/timers/flashlight/notifications), which means I can't charge it overnight and every day is too dynamic to always charge it at the same time. Plus I miss out on notifications and access to other features I use hourly when I put it on charge.

With my Garmin and 2 week+ battery life, the first <15% battery warning still gives me 3 days to put it on charge or turn on battery saving and turn that into 5+ days which is plenty of time to find a convenient time for charging. I don't think it ever died on me due to low battery, unlike my previous smart watches. Ok, I lied, it died once on a month long trip, but a split USB cable and a hair tie let me charge it right back up.

The low battery life might be ok if you do not use your watch for sleep tracking or alarms. Or flashlight. Gosh, I love my flashlight on wrist.

joshstrange
I sleep in my watch every night. I charge it while showering/getting ready in the morning and/or for an hour while I'm sitting at my desk. We have very different needs and I get that an AW doesn't work for everyone.
vermarish
I love the animation when you click "No" on "Do you want a new Pebble?". So extra.
soxocx
On the iPhone I get redirected to the Apple Store page for the Apple Watch. Nice humor.
jacobgkau
I think it's just a static redirect, it sent me to the Apple Watch page in Firefox on Linux. But I also wondered if it would shuffle between a few different brands or something (I guess not).
cjonas
I got redirected to pixel
HaZeust
It looks like:

- Chromium browsers (tested in Edge, Chrome, Brave) go to Pixel Watch,

- Android devices go to Pixel Watch,

- Apple devices go to Apple Watch,

- Firefox brings you to Apple Watch.

It might also be randomized, but that's what my tests got me, and only the Firefox one doesn't make humorous sense.

forty
I got pixel with Firefox for Android
HaZeust
>- Android devices go to Pixel Watch,
forty
>- Firefox brings you to Apple Watch.

I had read your post correctly. I just provided more information for a cases that matched two of your conditions

splonk
Looks it tries to identify Apple devices and goes to Pixel for everything else.

            const platform = navigator.platform || '';
            const userAgent = navigator.userAgent || '';
            const isAppleDevice = /iPhone|iPad|MacIntel/.test(platform) || 
                                /iPhone|iPad|Mac OS/.test(userAgent);
            
            // Set redirect URL and message based on device
            const redirectUrl = isAppleDevice 
                ? 'https://www.apple.com/watch'
                : 'https://store.google.com/product/pixel_watch_3?hl=en-US';
Edit: per erohead, that change was made after your comment.
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Findecanor
I got a tiny bit offended by the assumption that I'd rather have an Apple Watch.

I'd think the ideal for me would instead be something in-between a Pebble and a Sensor Watch. Something hackable with more battery life, that is a watch first (and a smartphone notification screen never). I wonder how far I could go towards that goal with the upcoming Pebble hardware and rewriting the OS kernel to sleep more.

bean-weevil
I interpreted it as an intentional insult :)
hbn
What if you clicked no because you already own a Pebble?
ctkhn
Gotta be honest I feel like Garmin is the perfect balance of pebble vs apple watch
WD-42
I like my instinct, but Garmin is so locked down, less hackable than even an Apple Watch.
teruakohatu
You can download the SDK and side load applications. No annual developer fee. Not sure how it’s more locked down.
abcd_f
Don’t know about Apple Watch development, but the scope of what you can do with Garmin's SDK is limited, apps run in a VM, ie no native code with respective performance issues and, as important, their developer support is a complete and utter garbage.

It's a lucky day when someone from Garmin graces Forums with their presence and bestows few sentences they think could pass for an answer.

In other words, yeah, the SDK is free, you can side-load and it’s not hard to write for, but you just can't write much.

scarface_74
You run native code on the Watch itself and most of the limitations are around not doing anything that will kill the small battery.
askvictor
One example: I would like to program a (dumb/ID-only) RFID card into it to unlock a door. I can't as the NFC off limits to apps.
jrockway
Apparently there is some transit system in China that uses this format for payments. So you can get one of those cards, add it to your watch, and program the RFID system to accept the ID of the card you got. There was an HN article about it this weekend.
bean-weevil
My Garmin watch will only allow me to add emv cards.
yellow_lead
You can also use Garmin watches for transit in Japan, if it's a Japanese model.
notpushkin
I think that was NFC. The problem was, iPhone generated a random UID for all other cards, while this one was fixed.
gck1
It's severely limited in terms of what you can do. Garmin doesn't support some Unicode (Georgian) characters, and when you get a notification with Georgian characters, watch freezes, starts heavily draining the battery and then resumes in a few seconds.

Garmin has refused to fix this for many many years, and there's no games you can play with SDK that will help you fix it yourself

knifie_spoonie
I'm curious why you're saying it's less hackable?

I've written my own little app for my Garmin watch, and I didn't need to get permission from them or pay them anything.

HumblyTossed
Less hackable in what way? I've found it's tremendously easier to write a watch face for the Garmin than the Apple Watch. I know, I've done it (and if you, like me, don't want to share your watch face, leave it in Beta all the time).
Levitating
The Instinct 2 has an SDK and a sort of app store. I must admit that adding real new functionality is hard, but it's something at least.
abraxas
I just gave away a very expensive Garmin to my son. Its feature set is to dream of. Its user interface is hot garbage. When I'm out on a hike or in the pool trying to just measure my fsking laps I need a single click option or something. Their paradigm of "button 1, button 3, button 5, long press button 4, button 1 again to confirm. Now you can push off the wall in 3... 2... 1" is beyond fucking stupid.

Does anyone at Garmin actually practice sports? For a company with such great hardware they really need someone competent on the UX team. Throwing everything into more and more menus and submenus is not working.

The specific watch I'm criticizing is Garmin Instinct 2x solar. The name is very ironic because there is nothing intuitive about using that watch. Like, at all.

hparadiz
All this plus not being able to see any data while offline. Super useful when you're 13,000 feet up on a mountain somewhere.
elric
Which data are you unable to view while offline? I never sync my Garmin watch to my phone, and I'm able to view all the data that interests me on the watch.
abcd_f
Any data in the app. It just doesn't work offline, at all. Like they looked at a book chapter on basics of data caching and went "nah, not doing that, that's too f#cking advanced".
hobos_delight
I'm not sure I understand. I have had an Instinct, Tactix Delta, and Tactix 7 Pro and have always been able to see the data without a phone or any network present.

I love these watches after moving from an Apple watch, primarily for two reasons:

1) the battery life - I cant stand having to charge my watch every day or so - my (current) Tactix 7 will go ~3-4 weeks depending on how much GPS I use.

2) (this may be out of date) when I would use the Strava or Run app on the Apple watch, it would not signal when it had a GPS fix, which resulted in a number of runs that had a "teleport" at the start, resulting in messed up metrics. Only a small thing, but it really frustrated me.

KiwiJohnno
I'm assuming the parent poster is talking about using the Garmin Connect app, which does require connectivity. You are correct, the data is visible directly on the watch.
KiwiJohnno
Its worth clarifying you are talking about the data on the phone app, which does require connectivity as nothing is stored on the phone app, its all on Garmin's servers.

However, most if not all of the data (recorded activities or health data) can be viewed directly on your watch, without any connectivity.

hparadiz
I have a lot of experience working with the Garmin API. The data you can see on the recording device (watch) is limited and basically worthless. Akin to looking at a raw csv full of data rather than nicely plotted over a map.
notpushkin
Why can’t it be also cached on the phone though?
netsroht
Gadgetbridge added support for Garmin watches recently [1]. All data is stored on your Android phone with no internet connectivity required and you can even export the sqlite DB so you own your sensor data. The UI isn't as nice as Garmin's but it does its job.

[1] https://gadgetbridge.org/basics/topics/garmin/

foobarchu
On the positive side, I adore that they sell (sold?) the forerunner series with all physical buttons and no touchscreen. Garbage software, but being able to click through by muscle memory instead of dealing with a touch interface in sunny conditions is essential to me. Fitbits and apple watches have just always been too reliant on the touch method for my liking.

The software is pretty crap though, and forerunner in particular is way too locked down towards running activities.

DwnVoteHoneyPot
You have trouble with touch interface in sunny conditions??? Try cold conditions with gloves on, then you'll have real problems with the Apple Watch. Or wet conditions. Or fast conditions like on a bike where you rather not look to turn off the alarm. Sunny conditions is the only time my watch works fine.
jrockway
My gloves work well on my Apple watch.

Wet is always a disaster, though. If it's going to be moist outside (like hiking with a rain jacket), you have to remember to apply water lock immediately, or you're done for. In that case, the watch is pretty much useless until you get back inside, which is in fact very annoying.

maxerickson
The 265 and 975 both have touch screen on top of the buttons.
jorvi
To be honest, that is not a problem unique to.. well.. any domain-specific company's tech stack.

Raymarine their marine GPS navigation units are supposed to be very intuitive, but they lack so many "that would have been nice" features, and their UX has stuff where various buttons have click / double-click / hold / hold 2s / hold 10s, all to access different functions. Some of it isn't even written down in the manual.

grogenaut
I mean honestly I have this issue with every level of compute device. Smart phones are much more limited than computers and so much stuff is buried. But then think about the absolutes gigantic amount of undocumented buried stuff that exists on Windows and Linux and macOS. You have a keyboard and internets and a mouse and it's still literally millions of people's jobs to deal with UI issues on these devices professionaly.
InitialLastName
It's hard to decide if I prefer Android not having a setting I want or Windows having 9 settings panels where that setting might live.
llimllib
I don't swim, but I have done thousands of runs with my series of garmin watches and I can say that the UX for them is spectacular, everything is in a sensible place for me to do without thinking.

Not sure what problems you've had with it specifically

abraxas
Getting into the swim app itself takes a couple of different buttons presses. But then it tries to be both too smart and too stupid at the same time. All I wanted to begin with was lap counting with a big number on the centre of the display. Can't configure it and can't even start to get it to count laps without some ceremony of setting up interval training and it only gets more convoluted from there. It's useless for an amateur like me who is not a peak performance athlete who needs to track every minutiae of their swim stats. How many people are they targeting with these this UX? Just people getting ready for the Olympics? There are hundreds of them. Hundreds!
nradov
I don't think you're being serious. I have had several Garmin watches and this is not an actual problem. I do both pool swim and open water activities and it's very easy to count laps. Sometimes I set up structured workouts but that's completely optional.
grogenaut
My vivoactive 5 swimming is top right button short press (activities) scroll tap swim. Top right to start. Screen shows only interval time and distance or laps (configurable). Bottom goes to interval rest. Lots more data and a rest timer. Bottom starts swimming again. Top stops the activity. Long press top to save, bottom to discard.

All operations are buttons because the touch doesn't work well with water on basically every device.

Literally 3 clicks to a large lap counter.

abraxas
> scroll tap swim

this watch has no touch interface. any scrolling and selecting has to be done via the five buttons which I ALWAYS somehow get wrong. Who on this beautiful earth thought it was sane to make the bottom right button be the "Back" button in a L2R (English) locale?

grogenaut
you replied to a thread talking about garmin watches... not the pebble
nradov
I really can't understand what you're complaining about. There's nothing about the English locale which implies an optimal placement for the Back button. The same devices are also sold in other locales.

These devices have to work in all conditions with some complex functionality available through only five buttons so some level of overlap is unavoidable. Do you also complain that your computer keyboard lacks separate buttons for "4" and "$"?

_thisdot
Ideally, in LTR locales, we move from left to right. This means that objects appear from the right side of the screen (as going forward would mean going right), and a back button is more intuitively perceived on the left side.
nradov
No, that's not how it works. Especially not on a wrist device.
dqv
?

https://crossvine.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/20250128_0...

But I'd have to try actually swimming with it I guess. It always counts my reps in strength training pretty accurately.

Edit: But then again, if you want to manually track laps, the swimming app doesn't matter. It's only there for the convenience of not having to press a button to increment the counter. You can just copy the "other" activity, name it something like "manual swim" with the lap button enabled. The only thing that differentiates the swim activity from a regular activity is setting the pool length, stroke detection, and automatic lap incrementing. The data is still getting logged the same way as far as I can tell, so using the "other" activity would give you all the data you need to track the swim.

iamacyborg
Sounds like you might need to turn off a few defaults to make it easier.

It should just be a case of pressing the start button, navigating to the pool swim activity and pressing start.

Use the lap button to record rest intervals at the wall, everything else is automatic

michaelt
Garmin is certainly better than some previous smartwatches I've had. You get a sunlight-readable, always-on display and a week-long battery life.

But with my Forerunner, they've packed a lot of options into the five buttons. Leads to a lot of "these buttons are for up and down, except at the start run screen where the up button opens the menu, which you can then navigate with up and down to choose between the six types of run, or exit with the back button"

If you're the type of person who doesn't like to read the manual, you're going to have a bad time.

Fnoord
My Fossil HR Collider lasted 4 weeks. It could do much (but not all) of the stuff my Pebble Classic/Pebble 2 could do. Both could control music during workout, pick up calls, put radios off. What I liked most about it is it could disguise as a non-smartwatch. On top of that, Pebble 2 HRM was bad.

A Pebble successor has to be better than a Pebble 2. The only reason my Pebble 2 isn't used anymore (and why I swapped to Fossil which is discontinued, too) is hardware buttons died. I tried to donor from a Pebble Classic, but sadly failed.

On top of all this, I get skin rashes from watches, so I cannot wear them 24/7.

jeffbee
My Garmin has a dedicated hardware button that says "LAP"
alex-korr
What are you even talking about? Garmin has an auto start/stop feature for lap swimming. All you need to do is single press top right button once to start the session and press the same button to stop and then another button to save it. It will literally do everything else for you automatically.
Moldoteck
Don't some Garmin watches support long press app launch?
rafaelmn
I really like vivomove looks but after buying lux as a gift for my wife I think I will steer clear. App was bad, syncing issues, she wore it for a while because she liked how it looks but I think she has not charged it in over a year because of how much the experience sucks compared to apple watch or even withings.

I have a withings scanwatch right now, the app is nice, ecosystem is nice - but accuracy is very underwhelming.

I would pay 1k for a watch that

- is hybrid with subtle watch aesthetic and minimal display/vibration for notifications

- has Apple watch level metric accuracy

- has week long battery life

- ideally would have replaceable battery but not a deal breaker if warranty is 3 years

synecdoche
2 short taps on the top button on Garmin Venu Sq 2 when swimming is the default activity. It counts laps automatically. It can be setup to display 2—4 statistics during the swim. Now if someone could explain what the other thing is that appears for a few seconds when changing direction at the wall in the pool is, and how to disable it, that would be useful. Two counters, one in large font and below one in small font. Typically they start at, or are, 0.
Steltek
My Pebble Time Steel finally bit the dust so I turned to a Garmin Instinct. I can't stand it. The button placement is totally random and legitimately painful to use. The Garmin software focuses on fitness activities to the exclusion of everything else.

I recoil at having been tempted by the more expensive Garmin watches. What a waste of money that would have been!

m_kos
You could always sell it. <hint hint>
asdff
I can't get over garmins predatory business model. The way they bin their products by activity is terrible if you have multiple hobbies. All of these devices are just a gps reciever, screen, battery, yet they sell it to you a dozen different ways for $500+ a pop usually because why unify the software and make it easy for the consumer?
wingerlang
> why unify the software and make it easy for the consumer

I honestly believe that selling them as separate products is easier. Both for the company who can focus in on the advertising, and for 99% of the customers who can go straight to their hobby.

That being said, it does look like the very first watch on their website is specifically in its own multi-sport category.

asdff
They only offer that for watches and often certain features are cribbed within that watch vs the dedicated sport one (I know this is the case for the golf line where the multi sport watch have limited featureset). Really I want the head unit. Thats what people want on their bikes. Thats what people use hiking. Thats what I like for golf just something smaller than my wallet to slip into my pocket (incidentally I carry a simple bushnell gps that goes for a fraction of the price). But Garmin doesn't offer that. If I want all of that I need three units, one for the bike, the garmin approach, and one of their hiking units. Really therre is nothing stopping any of these devices from offering the same functions but an insistence of binning these into different skus in the hopes of selling multiples to someone who already shells out on multiple personal hobbies. No advantage to the consumer with how it is lined up, only pain.
bdavbdav
That’s just marketing surely? Is there any activity that you’d want, apart from diving, missing from a fenix/epix?
asdff
The watches are terrible replacements for the dedicated unit for activities like cycling, hiking, even golfing imo (don't like anything like that on my wrist).
david422
There are some models that basically do them all - fenix, epix etc.
asdff
Watches, not gps units. Why is the garmin approach unit and garmin bike gps different products? why cant I get a unit that can do both of these things and also abrogate hiking trail maps? Storage is dirt cheap in 2025 is it not? So I don't think its a matter of cramming a limited number of functions on a few kb internal storage like the old days.
seanhunter
Garmin is the perfect solution if you want a smart watch with a gps that takes 5mins to possibly sync 50% of the time and a touchscreen-only interface that doesn’t work if it gets wet or say sweaty. Ie during most of the activities it’s supposedly designed for.

When I got a garmin smartwatch I was astounded by how poor the basic ux is in almost every single way. If I’m swimming, how do I stop my work out? The touchscreen doesn’t work because it’s wet. I have to do some sort of double click of the button. No that’s pause. Maybe triple click - no that didn’t do anything. Maybe hold the button? Now it wants to delete my whole workout.

And the GPS sync thing amazes me. I put up with this problem when I was using garmin GPSs for accurate time sync for servers back in the 1990s, but 25+ years later for them not to have figured it out when literally every other GPS device does it just fine completely blows my mind. Apple watch? I want to go for a walk/run/whatever I hit go. If I move during the 3-2-1 countdown nbd it figures it out. Garmin I want to do it I hit go, it tries to sync the sattelites. If I move during this process it starts from scratch. Sometimes the sync takes 30 seconds or so. Annoying but not impossible to live with. Most of the time however the sync takes 30seconds or so and just fails. Also annoying but whatever. Some of the time however the sync takes a few minutes and then fails. And if I move at all during this, it gives me a message saying it’s going to have to start again and starts from scratch.

And to add insult to injury the thing has a custom charging plug with the socket on the back of the watch. It has a ridge and two spikes that physically press into my wrist making it actually painful to wear. So bad.

primozk
Which Garmin to you have? This isn't my experience. And you have option to buy Garmin watches with actual buttons, I agree the touch-screen only are useless.
khasan222
Im not OP, but this sounds like the garmin instinct.
Levitating
I own both the original Insticnt and the Instinct 2. OP is not talking about the Instinct.

The Instinct does not have touchscreen, instead it has a monocolor LCD that's always on. It also has an intuitive UI with just 5 buttons on the side.

seanhunter
Garmin vivoactive 5 I think. It’s in the bottom of a drawer of shame somewhere. Possibly the worst consumer gadget purchase I have ever made which is quite some achievement.
Tade0
I've received a basic Garmin watch for my 5 years anniversary with the company I work for and I don't use as:

-The app has dark patterns like: you need to put a weight and height before you proceed with the setup, even though you can remove those later.

-Step counter quite simply doesn't work, as it grossly overestimates the count.

-5 day battery life. Not terrible, but also not practical.

-Notifications. All. The. Time. And about some "fitness goals" I don't remember setting. I have enough distractions from my phone thank you very much.

Who is the target audience for this?

lloeki
Height and weight are key metrics to compute e.g BMI and VO2max.

The only notifications I get are when an activity gets synced, and I did not set up anything particular, it's all default in that regard.

Levitating
> The app has dark patterns like: you need to put a weight and height before you proceed with the setup, even though you can remove those later.

That's not a dark pattern. A fitness watch has to know your weight and height for basically all of its fitness related functions...

Tade0
What if I'm not interested in those and just want the text notifications and maybe my pulse?
lloeki
This may be model/generation dependent.

I've had such issues with my Forerunner 735xt (from the very start), but ever since I upgraded - or seen friends using - newer hardware, these issues have entirely disappeared.

e.g I've traced sync issues to some problem in the BT stack: forcing a disconnect/reconnect made it sync without fail. GPS was slow to lock because of low storage thus no AGPS data.

The situation with "new" hardware is completely different.

GPS lock is ~instant, by the time I get out of my RF bunker of a home I have a lock by the time I have moved the arm to press the start activity button.

Sync is subsecond usually, and takes mere seconds when it "catches up" due to phone being away from watch for a while.

Touchscreen is handy sometimes but a mere occasional bonus convenience in specific occasions: the main input mechanism is squarely buttons. I mean touch for watches is kinda braindead as an input mechanism since a finger covers so much of an area, obscuring a quarter of the screen.

UI and menu organisation felt very odd at the beginning, but after a while I started understanding how and why it's laid out this way.

It is a very alien interface at first but it absolutely makes sense, and the amount of things one can do straight from the watch is insane. I mean you can never ever sync the watch to Garmin Connect and still have a massive amount of features. It's essentially completely autonomous, something I used to great effect when their system was brought down because of IIRC a malware attack.

ultrafez
What model are you using now that fixes the issues you experienced on your 735xt?
timanderson
Opposite experience here. Went from Apple Watch to Garmin, couldn't be happier. Never had an issue with the charging point chafing, it is recessed and no problem. Buttons to start/stop/pause/resume activity work as expected, so much better than trying to swipe and tap the Apple Watch screen especially in wet conditions. GPS sync never been an issue for me, you can start an activity before it syncs and it figures it out.
hk__2
> GPS sync never been an issue for me, you can start an activity before it syncs and it figures it out.

I’ve had a lot of issues with this, like going running 15 km and it registers only the last 10 km. My workflow now is to put the watch on the balcony while it finds the satellites, and then go out when it’s done.

selykg
Never had this happen to me. Admittedly I am in a very rural area, and while I do sometimes get some gps points that are "off" it's generally very fast and accurate. Basically all the errors I've personally run into fall into what I'd consider acceptable margin of error.

Even in heavy tree cover on a remote island for a hike last year. It (Garmin Instinct 2X) was incredibly accurate.

iamacyborg
The metal in the charging point can cause some allergic reactions, nothing a small silicone cap doesn’t fix though
haltcatchfire
I've been using Fenix 5 and then Fenix 7 for many years now and I don't recognize any of the points you're making. I might agree on the awful charging port, but that's fixed by getting one of the cheap charging "pads" from Amazon.
tallanvor
I had a Fenix 3 for over 5 years and I've had an Epix 2 for close to 3 years now and I don't have any of those problems. GPS normally takes about 30 seconds, and certainly under a minute. It has 5 buttons and for the first year I kept the touchscreen off completely until my bank started supporting Garmin Pay.

Yeah, it does use a custom charging cable, but the one for the Fenix 3 was solid and since I only charged it once a week (more than I really needed to) it wasn't a problem. The Epix 2 gets charged twice a week since it has the AMOLED screen and I keep it always on and I record workouts at least 6 times a week unless I'm on vacation. But still, the charge points are inset so they're not noticeable.

eps
> And the GPS sync thing amazes me.

If the watch was recently synced with the app to get current GPS ephemrides, it gets the lock within seconds. Otherwise, it may take much longer just like any other GPS device with outdated ephemerides.

seanhunter
Neither of your two statements coincides with my experience at all.

My garmin watch needed to be synced every time and it was always slow, and my garmin GPS on my motorcycle was the same. For example I once remember it trying and failing and eventually succeeding to sync during my walk from the tube through the parks to work one morning and then trying and failing and staying failed during my walk from work to the tube that evening. I was wearing the watch the entire day, so there was no possibility of it losing lock or whatever other than the obvious, which is it is just a really terrible device. Before I ditched it entirely I totally gave up on any gps functionality - it just was too high friction for too little payoff.

Secondly literally no other GPS device that I own has a noticeable “sync” or “lock” at all. They all use reasonable heuristics to get started and then improve their resolution as they go. If they ever lose GPS lock I don’t know about it except maybe a “map glitch” where I seem temporarily to be in the middle of a building instead of the street outside or whatever. The garmin takes ages, frequently fails to sync and sometimes also loses GPS lock while I’m doing an activity, and when it does that it ditches progress and pukes in the most inconvenient way possible.

I’m not in the middle of nowhere and there are no tall buildings near me. I am in London in zone 2 so there is exceptional coverage as you would expect.

bool3max
I recently picked up the entry-level Forerunner 55 as my first ever "smart watch" and its lack of touch-screen controls and the 5 tactile buttons are my favorite things about it.
bdavbdav
What garmin is this? My Epix (just a Fenix 7 with a fancy screen) seems to hit GPS near instantly, and you can disable the touchscreen. AFAIK it’s only the very basic ones / fashion smartwatches that are touch only (or touch and one or two buttons)
sneeze-slayer
Garmin instinct fixes this. Rugged, physical buttons with a battery life that last weeks. It's true about the special charger, but there are also usb-c adapters.
Levitating
I don't know what model you have, but this isn't my experience at all.

I own both the Instinct and Instinct 2, which have no touchscreen but an always-on monocolor LCD. I also have absolutely none of your GPS issues.

My dad was so impressed with my Instinct he bought a second-hand Fenix which also has none of your issues.

And all the Garmins I know have a charging port which is flush with the back of the watch.

Gasp0de
You must have gotten a weird Garmin that doesn't suit your needs then. Why did you get a Garmin with a touch screen, when you really wanted buttons and Garmin offers watches with buttons?

And I believe the GPS sync is necessary when you don't have an internet connection on the watch.

Levitating
I absolutely love my Garmin instict. It has an always-on display and a battery that lasts for nearly a month.

I mostly use it for reading my calendar, weather, notifications and time. Occasionally I use it for exercise.

But what it also excels at is GPS. I use it as a backup navigational tool when sailing. It has also prevented me from getting lost when running in the woods a number of times.

tylervigen
Did you randomly bring this up, or are you saying this because you see a Garmin redirect when you click "No"?

I ask because I get directed to the Apple Watch homepage.

Chilko
Oh interesting, I got directed to Pixel Watch
echelon
Feels a little bit salty to send customers to Google's competitor given the fact that Google provided the exit and also liberated the code. They didn't have to do that.

A better "thank you" to Google would be to direct people to Fitbit.

wkat4242
It's just a joke I think. But yeah linking to the pixel watch would have been nicer.
erohead
Good call, I just changed it to send to pixel watch if opened on Android or Windows!
alex_young
I think it’s perfect actually.

Google used to (still?) have a page internally where if you clicked on “I don’t care about security” it sent you to the jobs page of a competitor that had suffered a notable breach.

Very on point.

Reason077
> "A better "thank you" to Google would be to direct people to Fitbit."

Fitbit has already gone off to the great Google graveyard, unfortunately.

shaklee3
no. they just released the Fitbit ace
imp0cat
Cue Monty Python's Dead Parrot sketch. :)

Fitbit isn't dead yet, but it's not doing great either. And the alternatives kinda suck (tldr; the best choice is probably a Garmin for 3x as much money and with less features ).

eloisant
The feature I use the most on my smartwatch is paying.

So if they can bring contactless payments to their new Pebble they have my attention, otherwise it's useless to me.

jsheard
I wouldn't count on that, getting every bank on board is a massive undertaking. Even Garmin Pay and Fitbit Pay (before it was folded into Google Wallet) have/had huge gaps in their coverage, especially outside of the US.
ZeWaka
There exists 'smart bands', which can be applied to any (generally non-smart, obviously) watch that uses normal pin-style watchbands. They have a contactless chip in them that can store one card. My traditional watches use them, though I had to custom-make one of the bands to be in a style I wanted.
NikolaNovak
That is awesome... Any links? Any risk vectors I may be missing?
ryukafalz
From what I've seen these aren't available in the US, unless I've missed one. (I would be very interested if so!)
ZeWaka
The only one I'm aware of in the US is the basically-discontinued Timex Pay. It requires a Chase bank account / card to link with, however.
miki123211
How do those handle user authentication and card installation?

I assume you need support from your bank for the former and PINs for the latter?

ZeWaka
My (Timex Pay) one seems to function using a virtual card (remotely lockable) provided by the bank, which uses some sort of tokenization-based security chip on the band itself. I imagine there's probably some security flaws because they provide the NFC encoders to the user. It's backed by https://tappytech.com
gvurrdon
It's a major use of the watch for me also, but something like a Pebble 2 HR would tempt me to abandon payments. Do you have any links to examples of these bands you've found useful?
urbandw311er
You could cut out the chip from a debit card and glue it to the back of the pebble?
jsheard
It's not quite that easy since the NFC antenna extends beyond the chip.

Still doable though, as demonstrated by Bobby Fingers: https://youtu.be/NF4VJJKTjy8?t=825

4k93n2
haha thats too funny. i wonder if his eye starts to heat if he buys too many drinks
edarchis
The amount of us who clicked no is amazing. I loved my Pebble Time but I'm going to give money to yet another Kickstarter and have it be killed shortly after.
cryptozeus
why not redirect to google watches specially if the team is from goodle !
ratg13
Will you have nice looking ones? or will they all be "sporty/plastic" types?
jaapz
Pebble time round was very pretty IMHO, let's hope they go more that way this time
donjoe0
Huge bezel though. Would've got it if not for the bezel, I really wanted to make a custom 24h watchface for a Round. Went for the Time Steel instead. Hope in this new leg of the journey they can get a Round to have bezel coverage more on par with the rectangular models.
jaapz
Agreed, the bezel was too big! I had a time steel as well, but it had a huge bezel too. I'm partial to the round designs anyway and let's hope the technology has improved so much that the bezel can be removed completely
donjoe0
Ehh, I don't even think super-miniaturized components are needed to improve that ratio - it was already the thinnest smartwatch ever, I imagine some clever component rearranging and accepting a bit more thickness could get us some visible bezel reduction.
mrinterweb
I noticed my mouth had been hanging agape for a while while reading this. This is huge news. I feel like Pebble is the smartwatch that got it right the first time. So many smartwatches try to replace the phone instead of being an extension of the phone. Pebble seemed to better understand what is important than most smartwatches by being the extension of the phone, a focus on battery life and always on displays.
gonzo41
You should have a look at he Garmin instinct 2x. They've nailed it.
abraxas
Bah! They nailed what exactly? It's so mofing complex to use I hurled it at a wall (literally) and then gave it away to my son. A $600 CAD watch that I could not stand to use without seething.
brian-armstrong
You might want to invest some of that money in anger management classes
abraxas
Ha! It's a testament to their great hardware though! I did not even scratch the watch by throwing it full force again a hard surface.
taneq
If a smartwatch requires anger management classes in order to use successfully, that might indicate something about the watch. :P
eps
... or expectations.
Steltek
I have a Garmin Instinct 2. They definitely did not nail it. It's horrible in all respects. It's HUGE, physically painful to use, and the UI must have been written by 10 different teams who weren't talking to each other.
insane_dreamer
The Withings ScanWatch was the right fit for me. Unfortunately the HR sensor stopped working recently and the water resistant seal broke, and it's out of warranty, so it's in a drawer. But IMO that was the right idea: analog time, discrete notifications, ppg/ekg sensors, 2-week battery life.
averageRoyalty
I loved my scanwatch, but it lacked the feature set of any smart watch for fitness tracking. I hope daily for them to release an improved version.
morsch
I like my Fossil watch. Similar to Withings, less health features, marginally smarter. Analog watchface in front of an eink display, 3-4 weeks battery life. Of course they got discontinued as well.
teetertater
These are truly the best! And I've done a lot of research. Nowadays there are some smaller luxury brands that are closer with feature parity but not quite. The original Fossil team spun off to develop some kind of general watch platform, so I'm hopeful we'll see a remake by the time my fossil kicks out.
martin_a
Mine broke down but I got it repaired by Fossil after some time for 60 Euro. Meanwhile I bought a Garmin, now the repaired Fossil sits in a drawer. Not sure what to do with it. Maybe gift it to someone, but softwarer support is probably getting worse.
lopis
I don't like analog watches. I wish there was a watch like the basic casio I use but smart, but not huge and rugged like a G-Shock. If pebble releases a modern version of their watch, I might finally buy a smartwatch.
filoleg
What are you looking for in a smartwatch?

Casio has smaller G-Shock smartwatches (not just the giant circular ones) that track your activity, heartrate, etc. But if you want smartphone notifications, then yeah, sadly you are out of luck.

I am totally with you overall, though. I feel that if someone were to nail it, it would be Casio.

pestaa
The GBD-200 I have can receive notifications.
bartvk
What I encountered with smartwatches like the Xiaomi Mi Band, is that they display notifications but their font has a tiny subset of emoji.

So when friend send a simple "thumbs up", it displays the Unicode replacement character.

How does the Casio do it?

filoleg
Is it this one[0]? I saw it earlier, but I didn’t realize it could receive notifications, and the product page doesn’t mention it either.

Were you referring to that icon in the top left corner of the display that looks like it could be a notification counter? If yes, then that’s a fair point, but just being able to see the number of notifications is not the same as being able to see notifications (especially since it doesn’t seem like it would even tell you which app the notification is from, let alone what it was).

I would love to be corrected in case I am wrong, because it could be entirely possible that I am not even looking at the correct watch.

0. https://www.casio.com/us/watches/gshock/product.GBD-200-1/

bobbylarrybobby
Sounds like a Garmin Forerunner (255? 265?) with a custom watch face might fit the bill.
pjmlp
Amazfit watches.
Y_Y
https://www.sensorwatch.net/

I haven't made one myself because last I checked it was a hassle to ship, but this might be what you're looking for, F91-W exterior with minimally smart replacement innards.

abcd_f
The idea is nice. The implementation is a bit gaudy design-wise (subjective, granted) and flakey on the hardware side, with the HR sensor accuracy being the main issue.
Cadwhisker
I prefer technology that hides from view, so the Withings watches suit me as well.

The biggest downside is that the battery does not seem to be user-replaceable, so the 1 month of run-time I used to get slowly fades down to about a week or two after a couple of years of use. I can't go away for more than a week now without bringing the charger.

Peanuts99
Mines 8 years old at this point (so old it's a Nokia branded one) and it still lasts 3-4 weeks. I wonder why it's held up better?
Y-bar
I agree (a ScanWatch 2 owner here) that batteries should be user-replaceable. And that the fact that it is missing from my watch is a negative thing.

However, it is a very minor thing when the battery lasts as long as it does. If it holds 80% capacity like most other batteries today at 300, or more, cycles it would take over 10 years for the battery to degrade significantly considering each cycle is up to 30 days.

ost-ing
I have one, I use it nearly every day, battery can last upward of a whole month. They stopped updating the original model though which is frustrating because newer models have more features, but im almost certain the hardware is virtually identical.

I would like more transparency on how long each device gets updates for, similar to how Apple handles their products.

swiftcoder
I really like the Withings, but I've killed two of them in about a year each (shattered the face on one, failed seal leading to water ingress on the other). Meanwhile I have a draw full of older watches/smartwatches that are all in perfect working order, so this feels like build/QC problems specifically on their end.
sureglymop
I love my Withings watch but I wish I didn't have to use their app and could instead get the data directly. I tried to reverse engineer their bluetooth based protocol in the past but didn't get far because I don't have much experience with bluetooth.

I then looked at what http requests their app makes which was more straightforward and actually interesting but still not what I wanted... I hope I will find the time to try again soon.

insane_dreamer
Their app syncs with the Apple Health app (which is better), so that's what I use (and one reason why I like Withings)
andrewblossom
Have you reached out to them? I've found their customer support even for out-of-warranty items to be fantastic.
Vampiero
I literally just bought a LTE watch because I hate phones, I never use mine, and I keep forgetting it anyway. I'd rather have a watch with an eSIM
amelius
I would do this too, but in some venues you have to pay by scanning QR codes, which makes it impossible without camera.

And I don't want this:

https://wristcam.com/blogs/learn/do-apple-watches-have-camer...

weberer
They have QR payments, but no NFT? That doesn't seem right.
pbmonster
Outside the US, third party payment apps are popular, since they often don't require a credit card. But since Apple refuses third parties access to the NFT hardware, those apps almost universally have to use QR payments. It works OK, because most payment terminals have a display with sufficient resolution for a QR code anyway.
mixmastamyk
Outside the US, modern banking is available, and credit cards are unnecessary.
pbmonster
How do you use "modern banking" to pay contact-less for a coffee using an iPhone, and can you use the same method to send a friend $5?
berkes
NFC payments with cards. Payments based on proximity. Payment requests over chat etc etc.

Please. By all means, get out there. And look around and be amazed by how inventive people are.

How cultural differences form technological preferences. How people in one country send eachother billions a year via Tikkie, in another country pay at all shops via their chat app. How unbanked in many places pay with SMS credit. Or how many people pay fast and easy with QR.

Your bubble isn't "the best for everyone" it's just one of many options. One that you and your peers probably prefer.

pbmonster
But this is exactly my point. Those apps exist, and are popular. But they can't use NFC because of Apple's limitations on hardware APIs. So, QR payments are popular.

All those apps would use NFC for many of those use cases if they could. Which brings us back to the start of this discussion: which use case has QR payment, but not NFC (and thus requiring a camera in addition to a NFC chip in a smart watch)? Answer: the huge (international) market of non-NFC payment/ticketing apps.

berkes
A trust box, for example. Or a simple donation option. The ticket (pay what you want) at my favorite punk gig in town. Etc.

In e.g. the Netherlands, the majority of payments go via a payment system iDeal¹. Its easy to start an ideal payment with a QR code. It's, by my knowledge, impossible to do so via NFC - other than via Apple Pay or Google Wallet.

Then, there are vast fleets of phones out there that don't even have NFC. I wouldn't be suprised if a majority of phones in use today don't have nfc chips on board.

And, a large section of the population won't switch on NFC even. For battery. For privacy, for fear etc. If not for scanning my glucose meter, I would've switched off NFC by default. I'm no tinfoil hat, but 30+ years of software development and hackery has kept me weary of such stuff.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL, which, as former developer in dutch fintech, is far from what the name suggests ;).

mixmastamyk
There’s an account number on the register, you send money to it by app or web. For others a debit card will work. Apple is not required.

You can send a friend 25 cents for half a cookie or ten thousand for a deposit on an apartment, all free.

Smithalicious
If your world is limited to the US and western Europe, sure.
mopenstein
In my home country of Smugistan, greatest country in world, banks unnecessary. Check-outs take money directly from brain waves using technology invented by Smugistanian super computers. Money is crypto backed generated from farts released by citizens of Smugistan. Also, farts smell like roses.
stronglikedan
> you have to pay by scanning QR codes

I've never encountered that, but that sounds like a venue that doesn't want my money anyway.

amelius
It happens a lot in societies where people know and trust each other.

Often you can even buy drinks by scanning a QR code, paying, and then grabbing a drink from the fridge. With nobody else involved.

ricardobayes
While not disagreeing with what you said, such "grab a drink from the fridge" things are always in a monitored environment. There are no unlocked public fridges even hyper-high trust societies like Japan or Dubai.
theragra
No. In baltics, northern EU you can encounter countryside unsupervised apples, tomatoes and even honey where you take it and put money a box. No camera.

Also, even with cameras, it is little help of I am a tourist. In Switzerland, I was in such a store in a mountain village.

I visited there once - no point trying to find me if I stole something.

ravetcofx
Same in Farms around Vancouver, Canada
amatecha
Pretty sure I yelled something like "yoooo no way!!" :D too awesome.
xyst
The Apple Watch Ultra has worked wonders for me in terms of battery life and “always on display”.

My only wish is for an easily serviceable battery.

swiftcoder
> The Apple Watch Ultra has worked wonders for me in terms of battery life

It's not really playing in the same ballpark, though, is it?

48 hours of battery life is indeed very good for an Apple Watch, but I used to charge my Pebble maybe once a week, and my Withings Scanwatch about once every 3 weeks...

maccard
They don’t have to be the same to allow for the same freedom. Personally a 36 hour battery is just not a problem for me - I charge my watch when I shower and occasionally for 15-30m before bed. I’d be taking a real watch off during those times anyway.

I’d much much much rather have a device with a 2-3 day battery life that’s more powerful than one than runs for 2 weeks. 2 weeks gets into the “will I have to charge my watch randomly today” category of use, which is exactly the same problem a lot of people have with EV’s

djur
The Fitbit watches are the closest thing I've gotten to a Pebble (and I'd be wearing a fitness tracker anyway), but they're way more locked down.
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rossng
So cool that you were able to make this happen. I backed Pebble on Kickstarter in 2012 and no smartwatch has ever really appealed to me since then.

The screen on my original Pebble died a long time ago and I've always wondered whether I should try to bring it back to life. Perhaps now is the time!

Daneel_
I had two (an OG kickstarter pebble, and the steel), and also suffered screen death. The battery life was incredible, but I don’t know that I could give up the standalone features that the apple watch ultra 2 has. On-device Siri, tap to pay, calling without the phone nearby.. I hate the digital crown though, and it could use a proper torch like the Garmin watches have, so it’s far from perfect.
amatecha
There was a hack "solution" to fix the display by putting a piece of cardboard or paper behind it to keep the connection good. I was able to get my OG pebble working again until it was finally replaced by an Apple Watch I was gifted quite some time later (like a year or two!) :)
solarkraft
I’m wearing my Pebble Time Steel right now and the biggest issue I have with it (maintaining the app) is arguably mostly Apple’s fault.

I was originally pissed that Pebble never sold replacement parts (actually I still am), but at least this hardware has been holding up extremely well.

blackdisk
Ifixit had some pieces and I got a Pebble 2 screen and bezel from Ali Express. Your point is still valid.
ggm
Australia and Nea Zealand are "other" ?? Ok, I guess. If it's about economy scale, makes sense.
AiAi
This guy is now behind two of the products that I wish the most: the Small Android Phone and the Pebble watch. I hope they succeed! :)
screaminghawk
Which phone is this? I recently got a Unihertz Jelly Star 2 as it was the only decent "small Android" option I found while researching.
infotainment
I like the idea of their products, but I just wish Unihertz wasn't so sketchy -- they refuse to release any kernel sources. (Which is in direct violation of the GPL!)
follower
Thank you for mentioning this detail again.

I generally remember that there's some problematic issue with Unihertz but often seem to manage to forget exactly which issue it is.

Non-compliance with the GPL is frustratingly common (over a huge range of company sizes too).

Not at helped by the fact that the community managed to (stupidly) burn bridges with the one person who seemed to be effecting actual change within Chinese companies with regard to GPL compliance.

minimalengineer
Great device — lasted 4 years, woke me at 5 AM without disturbing my kids, and handled notifications well. Battery life was about a week, and it was swim-proof. That said, it was cheap... I hope this new version isn’t part of the “dumb” device trend where people spend $500 just to detox, thinking the price will force commitment.
OccamsMirror
At the same time, I hope it's priced high enough so that the company can thrive without taking external funding. PE and VC fuck everything up.
xnx
Pebble and Basis Peak (https://www.engadget.com/2016-08-09-basis-peak-obituary.html) are the two biggest smartwatch losses, and probably top 10 gadget losses of all time. Glad to see one of them might have a future.
insane_dreamer
Never heard of Basis Peak, but I've heard of Pebble for over 10 years.
xattt
In an alternate timeline, we are all wearing Pebbles synced to our Palm Prēs.