Ask HN: Difficulties with going back to school
The problem is, I can't find a way to make it work. To really commit to it I'd have to do it in person and it would be hard to balance with a full time job and I would need to work to just pay for life. Otherwise, I could take an online only degree which would allow me to work but I know that bench time is really important. I'm not sure how it would work with a fully online degree.
There's also the costs. I'm having trouble finding programs under 80k, and coming out of it I would be starting at the bottom of the ladder not making as much. I do have an option to attend at my country of birth, in Eastern Europe, for much cheaper but I don't think it's easy to transfer that outside of the EU.
I just don't know how to make it work, if I can. I would at least like to have a degree of some sort, even if it's computer science (easier online) but it's still an expensive one. I don't have anyone that can really give me great advice on this so I would appreciate any advice from you all.
170 comments
[ 2.4 ms ] story [ 219 ms ] threadTBH I don't think going back to the school is a good idea. They have weird rules that you have to follow as a customer; You have to take a ton of BS courses to make the degree. It's just BS considering that they just have a monopoly of degrees and you have to go through one of them.
If you want to go into EE, maybe try finding some embedded job?
I'd say OP can probably do it a lot better and cheaper by building his own benches. I don't know what he exactly wants to do, but an introductory bench including an Oscilloscope, a multimeter, a dedicate power source, a function generator, a soldering station, a desoldering station and a logical analyzer is going to be a lot more affordable, especially if OP is willing to ask around for second handed equipments.
Then OP can take a look of MIT open course and similar materials to find labs to work on.
I used to read a lot of history and humanity books so I don't really want to spend money on any such courses. Plus there are so many free ones online so I can take whatever I want instead of being forced to take something I might dislike.
Some universities offer independent studies which is cool, in which people can take courses they want. But for OP's cause I think just building a bench by himself and working on open courses is better, unless that degree is really useful.
Reasonable people can argue whether or not universities -should- just be single-subject job training. But as it stands today, they aren't.
I agree with you though: If OP just wants training in a single discipline, there are tons of online engineering courses, many of them free. That's not what a university degree is for.
Giving yourself permission to get a degree...permission to live your actual values...permission to make yourself happy...those are the hard part. Good luck.
If he truly wanted a degree, he'd already be doing it. It reads more like what he really wants is a break from software but is still in an economic reality of needing a job.
I don't think that "paying $80k" and "finding the time to actually get the degree while maintaining a full-time job" are the "least hard" parts.
The author could work part time for less money.
They are not giving themselves permission.
Start with an associate at community College. It's way cheaper, maybe even free.
Some states also have "adult learner" deals which bring the cost down if you're older. Not sure if you're old enough. If you aren't yet, you're close--I knew someone in their late 30s doing this when I was in undergrad. If you're too young, wait a couple years, save up, get a head start on your degree of choice, them do it.
I wouldn't recommend France, though, because engineering is mainly not taught in universities but in so-called Grandes Ecoles (they're engineering schools), which span years 3-5 and are only accessed after competitive exams at the end of year 2, from a sort of boarding high-school++ program (Classes Préparatoires).
For theoretical studies or even applied fundamental disciplines (like applied math), it's a different story, universities are excellent and they're easy to access (I mean, the better ones are selective, but you could get on board at any time using other degrees, unlike Grandes Ecoles) and get an internationally recognized degree from.
EDIT: Hadn't noticed OP is from the EU, in that case they would pay the same as French people, that's around 500€ per year max.
Online but same degree as offline, good AI offering that is recent and around $10K.
Georgia Tech is also a good one.
The university of Helsinki has similar things [1].
Germany and the Netherlands have affordable degree programs open universiteit/open universität are the keywords. Not sure if you need to learn the language.
I hope this seeds your creativity a bit so you can look for a solution that fits you.
[1] https://www.helsinki.fi/en/admissions-and-education/open-uni...
Even if that is the case, which it might not be, you'll still receive the skills and experience you are after. Personally, I say go for it, however of course adding moving on top of any situation may constitute a dramatic increase in leverage, so. Know your personal tolerances and work sustainably!
They typically pay doctoral students, albeit not very much (~$30-40k), which could lessen the financial burden. With a little creativity in your application, you could certainly write a convincing case for why 8 years of software engineering is superior to an undergraduate degree.
Also, I would very strongly encourage you to take one or more intro classes on the side before you jump in full time. It’s critical that you don’t delude yourself about what you’re actually getting into before you fully commit.
This is true. Don’t compromise. To get the value of a degree you need to be studying full time for something like 8-9 months of a year for 3-4 years.
To make the community college idea concrete, the first 2 years of engineering are fairly standard. Take these and then transfer:
- calculus (2 semesters) - chemistry and labs (3 semesters) - physics and labs (3 semesters) - engineering stats (1 semester) - intro sequence in your field (circuits or statics/dynamics, 2 semesters)
Bonus if they have differential equations or linear algebra, but they usually don’t.
Get a requirements list for your major from the state school. Know every course. Make sure every class transfers from community college. They should have it in writing which courses are equivalent. Don’t trust that the counselor will get it right for you. Don’t take any course that doesn’t explicitly have an equivalent course number.
I didn’t go to school for CS either and I felt like that for a while too, but at some point I stopped feeling like that. I think the feeling for me was some kind of imposter syndrome that I was attributing to the degree, but I think it turned out to actually be coming from somewhere else.
The difference between mechanical and electrical engineering is huge. Why do you want to do either? In your last paragraph you are also considering computer science.
You need to decide which degree you actually want and why. What will you be able to do with a degree that you can't do now?
I can only speak for the US but I would look at college curriculums and look at the actual classes you need to take. Many public universities in the US have partnerships with community colleges where you can take many general education classes from the first 2 years and get the credits to transfer.
I have an electrical engineering degree and there were labs in some classes but others had none.
Maybe when you get to that point you can work part time or with flexible hours and go to those classes during the day a few times a week and work during the night.
All of this means you are going to have a big change in your life. That could be cheaper housing, cheaper vacations, less time for a personal life, etc.
I fully agree that, especially as someone who has worked, the key question is "Why?"
Maybe get a certificate in something you're genuinely interested in? If you're a Linux person, there are any number of Linux Foundation and Red Hat certificate programs. See also Microsoft.
There's a lot of time, money, and generalized BS involved in a university degree. Sure, it's sort of a rite of passage out of high school. But I never seriously considered getting another degree later in my career.
There are tons of probably more practically useful certificate programs out there for someone who is already working. Maybe if you're seriously thinking about switching fields/roles but, again, that comes back to "why are you doing this?" It's presumably not for the piece of paper. I don't even know where my pieces of paper are.
A lot of people mistake the idea of being something as something they like versus the process involved in being that thing. What I mean by this is, you might find you like the idea of being an ME/EE, but once it gets down to the day-to-day work in learning and being that, you may find you actually hate it.
So, start learning the basics on your own. Do a project, then re-evaluate and see if going to university would be the right choice.
As for going back to school for computer science: I would only say to do that if you plan to go straight into a graduate program. Undergrad computer science is not worth it if you already are in industry. If you feel like you're missing something, there are many books and resources that are better and significantly more interesting to work out of than what an undergrad program will offer you.
I’m 76% done with my CS degree and I’m not sure it’ll be worth it.
There are some classes I wouldn’t have taken on my own if I didn’t have the pressure like discrete math 2, stats, but to be honest in about 2 months of not using them I’m going to forget it all anyway.
Coincidentally when I dropped out of college in my early 20s I was in mech eng. I build engines and race cars as a hobby and I always wanted to gain a more scientific edge. I also dabble in circuits and have an electronic technician degree from HS so I feel like you and I may share a lot.
School takes just the right mindset. I did everything online. The first two years are honestly a waste of time and money. Non science Gen Eds at 32 are ridiculous and I almost dropped again just because of how irrelevant that all was for my adult life. In particular because I had dropped out half way before.
Anyway, I don’t know if life is different after getting the degree but I feel more confident when I pass hard classes and I inch to the end. I started applying for jobs I would’ve normally looked from afar, because I’m more convinced that I have what it takes (and it didn’t come from school).
I still think of doing mechanical engineering at least once a week.
1992-1993 was a good time.
Really it just boils down to I've always been enchanted by engineering but never had the ability to due to having to work to make money to keep going. I'm considering computer science just because it would be easier to do while working and recently I've heard it's cheaper.
I do have a 2 years at a community college but most of the credits won't count which is why I said "no degree" but you're right, I can transfer some.
Here is my school's 4 year course curriculum including all senior year elective choices with descriptions of the classes for electrical engineering, computer engineering, computer science, and mechanical engineering.
https://catalog.ncsu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/electrica...
https://catalog.ncsu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/electrica...
https://catalog.ncsu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/computer-...
https://catalog.ncsu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/mechanica...
Take some time to look at the sequence of classes. Some stuff is obvious like Calculus 2 comes after Calculus 1. Look at the classes in common during the first 1-2 years.
I strongly suggest reading every single class description and especially every senior year elective class description.
Too often people think "XYZ sounds cool, that's what I'm going to study" without actually knowing the names or descriptions of the classes they will study.
Circuits 1 was the weed out class at my school. The first day of class the professor said 1/3 of you won't be here next year. He was correct. About 20% of the students dropped the class after the first test. Many of them switched to computer science which I think is a much easier major.
When I see someone say "electrical or mechanical" that is so broad that I feel like you don't have a good understanding of what either really are. That's okay but you shouldn't be making a big life decision with a vague understanding of what they are. That's why I took the time to post all those links for you to read.
I do agree that looking at the required courses and degree plan is important.
Also, the CoCo's are really focused on teaching and helping people get an education and make it affordable. The advisers are trying to make it work for you. The teachers are unionized, so it's a sustainable career, and teaching is their top priority. I've known three of those teachers, in electronics, math, and programming, and they were all happy with their jobs. That makes a big difference.
The CoCo's also have trade school programs and 2 year degrees that are not designed for college transfer, but the advisors are there to help you figure out what you want, and what classes you need to take.
Now this is just my personal political take, but I think our society and the press should take a hiatus from devoting such exclusive attention on the "elite" universities, and instead, focus on supporting and broadening the public college and university systems.
Getting a degree today, getting an education, is a very different beast from the most common experience. Things I have noticed:
1) It was surprisingly easy to get stuck with just figuring out how to finish assignments, or get enough crammed into for an exam - even if this was a field you actually loved
2) I have changed careers, several times now, and there is a marked contrast between
- a) Having a larger project in mind, that informs your decisions
- b) Figuring out things at the rhythm of the class.
3) GenAI is a pain in the ass. It’s everywhere, and it’s probably murdering your teachers as we speak. Its also a godsend if you want something explained to you quickly (assuming it gets it right, or the subject is covered enough)
3.1) Since you are actually interested by engineering, this gives you a substantial amount of protection from falling to GPT based crutches and habits.
My core suggestion, is to find some physical real world project you actually want to work on, and see your education as a path to making that project come to fruition.
The other suggestion is to truly figure out how you like to study, since that determines how you balance life pressures and education requirements.
You don’t need all the money at once, $80k degree is $20k/year - and only if you do it in 4 years. You are allowed to take longer (and spend less per year). If you’re working while you do the degree, the yearly cost isn’t a very big problem. Find out how online degrees work, don’t use that as a reason to not try. Apply for grants, loans, and scholarships. Some grants and scholarships are need based, and you may be easily able to demonstrate need if you explain your situation. Some grants and scholarships just go to people with interest and promise, and you don’t know if you don’t apply.
Many employers offer tuition assistance, as well as some amount of time for school. If your employer doesn’t, consider looking for one that does. You might have to work there for a year before being eligible.
If you want a CS degree instead, you can easily do that online, and it’s not very expensive, and you can do it on nights and weekends.
If you want to change careers after receiving the degree, you might indeed be back on the bottom of the ladder, but that’s not a good reason to avoid it. Imagine staying at your current job for 30 more years vs doing mechanical engineering - which would you rather? Also your growth may be more limited without a degree. While you might take an income hit temporarily, you can also advance faster and end up making more money later.
I’m pretty sure going back to school while working full time can be quite difficult depending on your ability to sacrifice social life and free time for 4 years. Full disclosure, when I thought seriously about doing a graduate degree after working for 7 years, I opted out. The school even offered a fellowship, but I had 2 kids and a house already and the fellowship didn’t even cover the cost of health insurance for the kids.
Do you have anywhere you recommend for a CS degree? I've found it's still the same price as any other degree at the colleges I've looked at.
I’d say don’t rule out loans either. I no longer know what the landscape is like now, I used subsidized Stafford loans more than 20 years ago. But if you can get a loan with a low interest rate and deferred payback, then you wouldn’t need to worry too much. You might be able to piece the funding together via a combination of loans and work and maybe grants or scholarship if you can find some. If you lost your job or wanted to attend in-person school you could maybe also consider easier, lower-paid part time work. Is family money a potential option? (Don’t answer that, I’m just throwing out something to consider.)
I don’t mean to be glib, I would find the idea of part time work pretty hard to imagine for me, so I have some idea of what I might sound like to you… I just wanted to be encouraging and prompt some creative financial optimism for how you might achieve your goals. Getting a degree won’t guarantee your life or your finances will be better, but statistically it helps, and it is a necessary credential for most of the best jobs, and it is good to broaden your education in non-vocational ways. I’m wishing you good luck!
For typical STEM-related work term jobs, the money (after expenses during the work term) is enough to cover most of the costs for the next study term.
If co-op education is not available, then you'd still have earnings from three summer jobs to help offset the cost of going back to school.
First, you have to take several general education courses and complete them alongside your technical courses. If you get stuck on an essay or exam you can't skip ahead and finish Python and JavaScript intro courses
Second, CompTIA exams built into the program cover a lot of Windows and IT security group stuff which I never encountered before as a web / software dev. Just like when I was in school, I found it difficult to memorize their definitions of tech terms and take the exam seriously (after all I've been fine without it). The cert exam was monitored by a remote proctor who needed to see my whole room. So I'd recommend going through a certification first and see how that makes you feel.
I've had friend that worked as janitors for four years to get degrees from good/expensive schools.
If you want to learn on your own (or remotely), you can easily buy a lot of the EE bench equipment. And there are affordable services to do things like fabricate your printed circuit board designs.
If you can't handle the cost and time investment of a Bachelor's degree, and you really know your stuff in a field, sometimes you can do a Master's degree, which is much more focused.
There's a chance your employer has a program to reimburse tuition. If you have demanding work, and take a demanding class, together these will probably take up all your time, and require careful self-management so that you can do well at both, but it can be done.
That's what I did (albeit at a very different time in my life) and it worked well. Community colleges are usually quite supportive of students taking a light load for longer - it's a common need among their (actual and potential) students for a variety of reasons.
Just my two cents as a mid-40 years old (maybe I'm jaded), and don't take it the wrong way. I just don't want you to go fully commit to ME or EE without having tried a tiny bit of the college courses. Sometimes, we have ideals that we want to do, but when we actually go and do them full time, we realize we don't enjoy that activity as much as dreaming about the idealized version of such activity...
You may find some YouTube channels that teaches you ways to play with breadboard, but again, like I said, it (playing around with "cool/fun" toys) is different than taking classes required to finish a four-year degree.
Best wishes for your learning journey!
For example, most people who learn build their first programs in a programing language do so without the theoretical foundation of what even is a language, what are grammars, or the whole menagerie of basic data structures.
Less discouraging, more inspiring.
Yet another alternative, is hunting through youtube for presentations or documentaries which explain what a certain job title does all day, what their work feels like, what they feel they achieve. Or books (essential book for "selling" EE digital hardware design was The Soul of a New Machine).
I mean I'm sure mechanical/electrical jobs exists but from my admittedly limited view it always seems like it's the opposite move so interested.
Also 80k is ridiculous if it's in the US , maybe it's the specific university you're looking at ?
That seems reasonable to me for a 4 year degree from one of any of the 50 public flagships. (I assume that's what they're talking about.)
Which lines up with my own costs. Am I missing something ?
In state yearly tuition. Mind sharing your state ? Or one around you if you think that's too personal
Also, I suspect that if you plan to continue working in software, since you have experience, you maybe shouldn't worry too much about a degree from outside the US. I bet many recruiters just view a degree as a checkmark and are more interested in your work experience.
https://www.coursera.org/degrees/mas-engineering-berkeley
The CS program rankings are roughly https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-sch...
I suggest reviewing the curricula before applying.
He talked to his desired 4-year college admissions team and told them he hoped to transfer in. He got their advice on the overall process, and the classes they recommended he take at the 2-year institution vs. leaving to take at the 4-year. He did the leg work to research the local options, sent them briefs on each, and they recommended which one would fit most directly into their transfer application process.
n=1 but he did exactly what they said and ended up getting the 4-year degree he wanted from them with a minimum of drama along the way.