He's still too young for something like this but I've been searching for something to use when we more properly introduce my son to computers. Using modern components to make something useful that still exposes the electronics side, encourages tinkering and exploration over media consumption, etc and it seems like a project like this could fit the bill nicely!
I think machines are more for adults and passionate teenagers than for children. But you can also look at the tulip creative computer that is more geared towards creative computing (especially music)
The OS made me wonder how far someone could get trying to create a GUI for the 6502. I suppose the Apple II (GS?) headed there before the Mac fully took the reins and the Apple II was left out to pasture.
There’s something to be said about an independent system you can understand and expand. What I think will be next frontier in home computing is truly understanding and owning the systems that run a smart home and that comes with understanding the environment (sensor data, presence detection, etc.). We live in an interesting time where embedded development has become so accessible and powerful that we can interface with multiple wireless protocols and state of the art sensors with not a lot of capital investment. If we think what can come beyond screens and imagine more ambient computing systems - maybe we’ll see new and interesting innovations
i've been thinking about how to build a retro-style computer without any of the engineering compromises that made old machines so weird. lots of ideas, no progress. perhaps some sort of small riscv machine and a separate processor to manage the system (esp32) remotely, so you can always modify the filesystem or whatever from a bigger machine?
Not ragging on the author, but I'm always confused whenever I see a "make your own computer" project like this that doesn't start with hardware first. I mean, there's already seems to be a quite advanced OS for it and some detailed docs, but no physical "computer" to speak of, just a lot of mockups.
Why a hardware project at that point and not a virtual machine like pico-8?
I'm just saying, its kinda the opposite approach a hardware person would take.
What's the scope of "fully understandable?" How much of this home PC could be reasonably audited by individuals or small teams?
I've got no exceptional opsec needs as an individual, but I spend some time wondering the minimum required resources to audit a PC. Looking through the docs I see cases where there are multiple suppliers for a recommended part -- that's very cool!
As a "fake programmer" and web jockey, this looks like the right balance of complexity to learn with.
Some day, whenever I have the money to skunkworks this properly, I've wanted to create something like a modern spiritual successor to the Atari ST with enhanced creature comforts.
Something with a CPU based on POWER architecture (like microwatt) with a simplified multicore design (no hyperthreading or weird BIG+little core design - just straightforward homogeneous cores), a simple expansion interface of some kind, and an OS baked into ROM. Then I'd consider it to be built around a long term support model, with one design that can last decades, complete with schematics, chip design reference guide, and an open specification so it can be easily cloned as desired.
Especially now that Moore's Law and Dennard Scaling has slowed down considerably, it could be a fun platform to target for education or the demoscene, instead of spec chasing.
Along similar lines but physically much smaller, there are currently about 3 or 4 boards[1] that have RP2350, DVI, USB host, and SD card, ranging in cost from about $15 to $40.
A particular sweet spot is emulating 8 and 16 bit systems, as latency can be just as good as an FPGA setup. The infoNES emulator has been running on RP2040 for a while, and I see projects for Sega Master System, Genesis, Apple II, and Mac in the works. But you can also write much more powerful software natively.
Likely it will be possible to adapt software between these various RP2350 systems.
I realize that 8MB of RAM seems absurdly small to modern audiences, but I can assure you that I ran early versions of Turbo Pascal and compiled fine with 64K.
> To fund development for this critical next stage, we will launch a crowdfunding campaign on a platform such as Indiegogo or Kickstarter.
Great point. I highly recommend crowdsupply for this type of project (extremely technical target customers), especially if this is the first campaign you run, as their team is helping much more on the nuances of running a successful campaign.
(I know this is not the place for ads, and I’m not affiliated though I run crowdfunding campaigns on all the platforms mentioned.)
This looks really interesting. I'd love to make something like this myself, from scratch, but I know I'd only get about 2 days into it before ADHD brain decided to do something else. Plus I'd be the only person who'd ever use it, and at that point it would be easier just to use a commercial PC. It could make a cool "cyberdeck" though. I'm already thinking about how I could do the bus stuff for the expansion cards, without having looked at the exact implementation details for this computer haha
> Fully understandable by a single person, yet powerful enough to run a graphical desktop OS, it tries to bridge the gap between Arduinos and a RaspberryPi.
Considering this uses a RP2350, I am pretty sure that no single person on earth has a full understanding of this Computer.
I love the spirit of this so believe me I’m not here to denigrate it. Just sharing anecdote of building one of those “retro style” Linux/pi kits with my kids some years ago. I thought having a bare metal style machine would get them entranced by computers like it did in the early 80s. But you can’t roll back the clock. Kids today live saturated in a computerized and digital world no matter how much we may try to shelter them from it. When I saw a bare DOS prompt at age 7 it felt like all the magic in the world at my fingertips. But not for my kids. What once was science fiction to me is no more amazing to them then the fact that we have 24 hour indoor electric lighting at the touch of a switch. It’s just a different world today.
23 comments
[ 2.2 ms ] story [ 39.2 ms ] threadThe OS made me wonder how far someone could get trying to create a GUI for the 6502. I suppose the Apple II (GS?) headed there before the Mac fully took the reins and the Apple II was left out to pasture.
cool!
> Dual Core CPU
hm that will make for some interesting first steps in learning
Why a hardware project at that point and not a virtual machine like pico-8?
I'm just saying, its kinda the opposite approach a hardware person would take.
Riddle me this, Batman.
What's the scope of "fully understandable?" How much of this home PC could be reasonably audited by individuals or small teams?
I've got no exceptional opsec needs as an individual, but I spend some time wondering the minimum required resources to audit a PC. Looking through the docs I see cases where there are multiple suppliers for a recommended part -- that's very cool!
As a "fake programmer" and web jockey, this looks like the right balance of complexity to learn with.
Some day, whenever I have the money to skunkworks this properly, I've wanted to create something like a modern spiritual successor to the Atari ST with enhanced creature comforts.
Something with a CPU based on POWER architecture (like microwatt) with a simplified multicore design (no hyperthreading or weird BIG+little core design - just straightforward homogeneous cores), a simple expansion interface of some kind, and an OS baked into ROM. Then I'd consider it to be built around a long term support model, with one design that can last decades, complete with schematics, chip design reference guide, and an open specification so it can be easily cloned as desired.
Especially now that Moore's Law and Dennard Scaling has slowed down considerably, it could be a fun platform to target for education or the demoscene, instead of spec chasing.
A particular sweet spot is emulating 8 and 16 bit systems, as latency can be just as good as an FPGA setup. The infoNES emulator has been running on RP2040 for a while, and I see projects for Sega Master System, Genesis, Apple II, and Mac in the works. But you can also write much more powerful software natively.
Likely it will be possible to adapt software between these various RP2350 systems.
[1]: https://github.com/DusterTheFirst/pico-dvi-rs/wiki/RP2350-DV...
I realize that 8MB of RAM seems absurdly small to modern audiences, but I can assure you that I ran early versions of Turbo Pascal and compiled fine with 64K.
Great point. I highly recommend crowdsupply for this type of project (extremely technical target customers), especially if this is the first campaign you run, as their team is helping much more on the nuances of running a successful campaign.
(I know this is not the place for ads, and I’m not affiliated though I run crowdfunding campaigns on all the platforms mentioned.)
>Raspberry Pi RP2350 Main SoC
Yeah right.
Considering this uses a RP2350, I am pretty sure that no single person on earth has a full understanding of this Computer.