> I believe attitudes toward air-conditioning are class markers in many European countries. Air-conditioning is seen as prototypically American
Anecdotally, from the Europeans I know, this is true. When the topic comes up, I will mention that we almost universally have air conditioning here in Canada. (As we do.) After any initial surprise fades over AC in a country generally known for being cold a retort comes usually along the lines of "well you're practically Americans culturally anyway". That may be part of it, sure.
But I think it's mostly that electricity is cheap here, while it reaches almost 40 °C in summer.
Speaking of electricity, the article doesn't really mention energy costs. Here in Canada I don't know many who don't have AC because they don't like it philosophically, but I know some people who don't have one, or who don't use their AC as much as they would like, because they just can't afford it. And it's not the AC itself. It's the electricity. A window unit running on high will consume its weight in electricity in one summer, or sooner.
And that's at Canadian electricity prices, where we pay about 0.10 CAD (0.06 EUR / 0.07 USD) per kWh here. To run AC like Canadians do (often with central air to cool the entire home) could cost potentially thousands of dollars a year, if we paid German electric rates.
Essentially, wherever AC gets rolled out, heat-related death plunges. Taking Barreca’s estimate and applying it to Europe suggests that as many as 100,000 European lives — 0.013% of the population — could be saved every year if the 80% of European households who don’t have AC were to get it.
Is the effect strong enough to show up in life expectancy tables? Average lifespan is already quite a bit longer in much of Western Europe than the US (https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1lih4a0/oc...) that it surprises me that this would push it even farther. Am I wrong to be skeptical?
For that matter, does it show up in differences between US states? Personally I've lived in 9 different states, 4 which are in the top ten for life expectancy, and I haven't had central air conditioning in any of them. Is this an anomaly? Is there any correlation between air conditioning use within the US and life expectancy?
> Degrowth frames climate change as a problem of personal overconsumption and extravagance to be curbed by austere self-restraint and government policy, rather than as a technological problem to be overcome by installing green energy
The elephant in the room is human overpopulation. Every doubling of the population and we'd have to halve our "personal overconsumption and extravagance" to keep the environmental effects the same. We've had more than one doubling in the time I've been alive.
But somehow large families are still celebrated instead of being treated as the eternal "personal overconsumption and extravagance" that they create.
Dunno about all Europe, but I visited a few recently built apartments in Belgium lately and all of them have heat pumps, this is the only way one can get the A energy efficiency ratings.
Heat pumps work as aircos or heaters but are more efficient.
The article wants to cherry-pick to make it seem like no one in Europe is installing heat-pumps. My partner works in energy research and the prevailing advice seems to be ‘insulation first, remediation second’. That's it. We build much better houses, and the European South is installing more and more AC; but that's also where solar plays a bigger role.
Anecdata, but our A-rated apartment in Belgium rides heatwaves like it's nothing. We're on the last floor and in the corner of a building that gets sun from midday to sundown. A floor fan to move air around and that's it, the building's built-in ventilation and good insulation keep us going. It gets to 26C inside max, and that's after 2–3 weeks of outside temps above 32C (after the brick mass has absorbed too much heat that radiates inwards). In winter we barely need heating.
I have read that the French media have a talking point about AC being dangerous because walking into a cool building during a hot day might harm people through "thermal shock". It's almost too stupid for me to believe this is genuinely a claim made in France.
Perhaps some people in Europe are reacting against AC in a very silly way because they associate AC with America and some sort of national pride or ego gets in the way of rational thought about the subject.
I stayed in a house in Rome that kept out the fierce summer heat, because of thick walls. AC would be redundant. In other places, like Hong Kong, the thin walls of the apartments need AC to remain liveable in summer. I've read about the lack of shade in many built environments. Seen TV shows where someone builds floor-to-ceiling panoramic windows in a location that would be below 0 for much of the year. Unsustainable construction drives AC use and greenhouse gas emission that makes the problem worse.
We should have AC everywhere where night temperature is regularly over 20C part of the year. I get 30C some days almost every summer but almost never over room temp at night - meaning I can easily just open a window in the evening and the house is cool.
The only real problem with more widespread AC is it might lead to the short term win long term loss where people build cheaply (without _at least_ 300mm/1ft insulation and triple glass windows etc) and then spend continuously on heating and cooling instead. The simple solution to this in places where AC is banned: allow it only for well insulated buildings. Yes it’s where it’s least needed but it gives incentive to fix the root cause first.
>Essentially, wherever AC gets rolled out, heat-related death plunges. Taking Barreca’s estimate and applying it to Europe suggests that as many as 100,000 European lives — 0.013% of the population — could be saved every year if the 80% of European households who don’t have AC were to get it.
There is another side to this coin. How many extra people will die each year due to the additional radiative forcing caused by emissions due to the AC usage? Presenting one side without attempting to estimate the other side is not a fair comparison.
Haven't heard of a crusade against AC, sounds a bit bullshit to be honest. Maybe it's Spain/Italy thing, I dunno.
Where I live now the governments are all about energy-neutral houses and replacing gas boilers used to heating with electric thermal pumps (which do the cooling too, just not as good as AC). and solar panels.
The eastern part of the continent went all for AC in the 2000s and the main complaint I remember is how atrocious they look when installed chaotically on building facades.
First thing is to build to keep homes cool in summer and warm in winter. Traditional Mediterranean homes were built like that along with providing good air flow.
Nowadays it's all glass, which means lethal greenhouse in summer, with or without climate warming.
> Air conditioning, when it appeared in Europe, was seen as a luxury or even a health risk.
They're not entirely wrong. A/C is often installed without adequate ventilation, and elevated indoor CO₂ levels are not great for your well-being. HRV (heat recovery ventilation) solves the problem, but it's currently a niche technology compared to mini splits.
> You might think Europe is simply too far north to need AC. But latitude is no longer the defense against heat that it used to be
Naa I'm pretty sure that is the reason. I live in central Germany and the summers are sure getting hotter but it's fine. I was in Japan a few weeks ago and good lord it was like 40 degrees (104 Fahrenheit I guess) plus high humidity. If it would get that hot I would definitely get AC.
Come on, as if people would die of heat stroke just not to use that pesky Yankee tech. Europe has adopted tons of American technology. Honestly I wasn't even aware that AC is American. I'm sure as the summers get hotter here more and more people will get AC as well.
Growing in Poland I'd say Eastern Europe was until recently too poor to afford AC, but also the climate was indeed less extreme just 30 years ago. Nowadays most new detached houses do have AC in at least one room (bedroom or living room) - mine included. Alternatively many new houses have heat pumps. Apartament blocks are less consistent in that matter, but there are interesting initiatives as well - like using combined-heat-and-power citywide heating installations for cooling (by pumping cold water through them).
I'm British so pretty far north so YMMV, but while it can get hot here these days, it's very rarely hot enough to justify owning an air con unit for the whole year. There's probably 2 weeks of the year at most (and I'm on the south coast) where I feel like I need air con at home. And being on the south coast means the sea and it's breeze are a 10 minute walk away anyways. This does feel like it's changing every year though, definitely not a bad time to get into the AC business.
The problem with heat isn't only temperature, but in many places, it's the accompanying humidity. Heat and humidity are energy sapping and drains you of the ability to do highly focused intellectual work. You pay a price in productivity.
I was once working out of the corporate HQ of one of the largest multinational companies in Germany, and despite the modern buildings, the offices had no A/C and it was hot in the summer. Germans are against A/C for various reasons: (1) it's environmentally unfriendly; (2) it's only a few weeks in the summer; (3) Continuous cold air on skin is unhealthy. (4) You get used to it.
There are varying degrees of truth here, but for me, it didn't matter: I couldn't do intense focused work. That to me was too huge a cost.
Wait... aren't AC's one of the prevalent causes of global warming, so in effect partly causing more heat related deaths?
And what about stress caused by noise pollution from AC's?
I think we need less units - not more.
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[ 5.2 ms ] story [ 37.0 ms ] threadAnecdotally, from the Europeans I know, this is true. When the topic comes up, I will mention that we almost universally have air conditioning here in Canada. (As we do.) After any initial surprise fades over AC in a country generally known for being cold a retort comes usually along the lines of "well you're practically Americans culturally anyway". That may be part of it, sure.
But I think it's mostly that electricity is cheap here, while it reaches almost 40 °C in summer.
Speaking of electricity, the article doesn't really mention energy costs. Here in Canada I don't know many who don't have AC because they don't like it philosophically, but I know some people who don't have one, or who don't use their AC as much as they would like, because they just can't afford it. And it's not the AC itself. It's the electricity. A window unit running on high will consume its weight in electricity in one summer, or sooner.
And that's at Canadian electricity prices, where we pay about 0.10 CAD (0.06 EUR / 0.07 USD) per kWh here. To run AC like Canadians do (often with central air to cool the entire home) could cost potentially thousands of dollars a year, if we paid German electric rates.
Is the effect strong enough to show up in life expectancy tables? Average lifespan is already quite a bit longer in much of Western Europe than the US (https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1lih4a0/oc...) that it surprises me that this would push it even farther. Am I wrong to be skeptical?
For that matter, does it show up in differences between US states? Personally I've lived in 9 different states, 4 which are in the top ten for life expectancy, and I haven't had central air conditioning in any of them. Is this an anomaly? Is there any correlation between air conditioning use within the US and life expectancy?
Guess what got installed in a lot of cabins this year by people I know in AK?
Air conditioning!
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766
The difference from Inca sacrifices is the age of the offering.
The elephant in the room is human overpopulation. Every doubling of the population and we'd have to halve our "personal overconsumption and extravagance" to keep the environmental effects the same. We've had more than one doubling in the time I've been alive.
But somehow large families are still celebrated instead of being treated as the eternal "personal overconsumption and extravagance" that they create.
Heat pumps work as aircos or heaters but are more efficient.
Anecdata, but our A-rated apartment in Belgium rides heatwaves like it's nothing. We're on the last floor and in the corner of a building that gets sun from midday to sundown. A floor fan to move air around and that's it, the building's built-in ventilation and good insulation keep us going. It gets to 26C inside max, and that's after 2–3 weeks of outside temps above 32C (after the brick mass has absorbed too much heat that radiates inwards). In winter we barely need heating.
In France, tax credits were denied for air-to-air heat pumps that could also cool (which they all can).
Perhaps some people in Europe are reacting against AC in a very silly way because they associate AC with America and some sort of national pride or ego gets in the way of rational thought about the subject.
The only real problem with more widespread AC is it might lead to the short term win long term loss where people build cheaply (without _at least_ 300mm/1ft insulation and triple glass windows etc) and then spend continuously on heating and cooling instead. The simple solution to this in places where AC is banned: allow it only for well insulated buildings. Yes it’s where it’s least needed but it gives incentive to fix the root cause first.
There is another side to this coin. How many extra people will die each year due to the additional radiative forcing caused by emissions due to the AC usage? Presenting one side without attempting to estimate the other side is not a fair comparison.
Where I live now the governments are all about energy-neutral houses and replacing gas boilers used to heating with electric thermal pumps (which do the cooling too, just not as good as AC). and solar panels.
The eastern part of the continent went all for AC in the 2000s and the main complaint I remember is how atrocious they look when installed chaotically on building facades.
- we should also mandate external window shutters on all buildings so that the sun heats that and not the apartment/house
- we should also mandate that parking lots are always covered with trees, especially when they are close to buildings. Look at this bullshit: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1955506095239336137
Edit: as someone else mentioned. Also: thicker walls.
And only after all this is implemented can we start a discussion of whether AC is needed. Yes, right now it's a necessity across most of Europe
Nowadays it's all glass, which means lethal greenhouse in summer, with or without climate warming.
They're not entirely wrong. A/C is often installed without adequate ventilation, and elevated indoor CO₂ levels are not great for your well-being. HRV (heat recovery ventilation) solves the problem, but it's currently a niche technology compared to mini splits.
Naa I'm pretty sure that is the reason. I live in central Germany and the summers are sure getting hotter but it's fine. I was in Japan a few weeks ago and good lord it was like 40 degrees (104 Fahrenheit I guess) plus high humidity. If it would get that hot I would definitely get AC.
Come on, as if people would die of heat stroke just not to use that pesky Yankee tech. Europe has adopted tons of American technology. Honestly I wasn't even aware that AC is American. I'm sure as the summers get hotter here more and more people will get AC as well.
I was once working out of the corporate HQ of one of the largest multinational companies in Germany, and despite the modern buildings, the offices had no A/C and it was hot in the summer. Germans are against A/C for various reasons: (1) it's environmentally unfriendly; (2) it's only a few weeks in the summer; (3) Continuous cold air on skin is unhealthy. (4) You get used to it.
There are varying degrees of truth here, but for me, it didn't matter: I couldn't do intense focused work. That to me was too huge a cost.
Your energy-score had to be below a certain limit (where 0 is neutral).
Now, we wanted to install AC, but that would actually bump our energy-score, because the idea is that if you need AC you didn't insulate enough.
Except... when you have such thick walls the house overheated starting mid-spring until mid-fall.