To quote a relative of mine, when asked if he and his wife were going to have a third child: “No, no. We found out what causes that. We don’t do that anymore.”
Humans generally don't interact in person as much with other humans anymore and technology is I think one of the big drivers of this change.
From the article:
"When it comes to sexlessness (“no sex in the last year”) among young adults, the biggest change comes post-2010."
"Between 2010 and 2019, the average time young adults spent with friends in a given week fell by nearly 50%, from 12.8 hours to just 6.5 hours."
No doubt there are other factors too, and all of the factors are entangled together as in any complex system, but I think internet and smartphones is one of the biggest aspects to point to.
The article mostly blames pornography and digital addiction, but I think those are symptoms of a larger problem, which is lack of belonging and community. If life sucks, you have few friends you can afford the time or money to see, and you work to make other people rich until you are exhausted, when do you have time and energy to maintain a relationship? If you feel like the world is on fire, it's hard to get in the mood.
It would help if we built third spaces that weren't centered around alcohol, which is also declining in popularity, especially with young adults.
Americans: why isn't anyone having sex anymore??
Also Americans: Abstinence only! You'll get pregnant! No abortions! STDs will kill you! Men deserve sex! We're not going to teach you how your body works!
Of course we end up with declining sex, in a country so obsessed with individualism and sex-adverse.
I do see hope though. The kids in my community are being taught age-appropriate, consent-based sex ed, and the availability of free, high-quality sex ed is improving.
I would be really interested to see if sex frequency is declining for everyone, or just for people who aren't putting in any emotional labor to learning and growing as a person when it comes to sexuality.
The messaging I've seen is the opposite "Men don't deserve sex!".
The dead bedroom is particularly popular when the boyfriend in question is, in the words of the girlfriend in question, "gentle and treating his girlfriend better than any of her previous boyfriends".
Okay, but don't get surprised if men listen to you and avoid having sex.
But are they being given fair sex Ed that includes same sex stuff too? Because that still seems incredibly lacking even amongst the "less prude" communities for it.
You gotta love a society which persistently makes the world a worse and worse place and then complains when people don't want to have sex or have kids.
I'm not one of those weirdos who can't see that materially in some superficial ways, our lives are better than ever: medicine, toys, entertainment, and a lot of other stuff, better than ever. Not only that, I can even acknowledge that capitalism is what has provided this bounty to us.
But what it also does is underline all the time that you, personally are not "adequate" unless you want to be the kind of person who hustles all the time, who is seeking an angle or an alpha, who wants to be an entrepreneur of some kind. I think this just doesn't appeal to most people the message society is sending loud and clear is that if you just want to have a nice life and you don't want to constantly figure out new ways to improve your capital, you'll get left behind. I think for many people this doesn't seem like a cool world to have a baby in.
This is all because of technology. Pre internet you could not just isolate yourself and medicate with content since there was only the television. In person communities formed organically as an effect. Those communities have now been eroded by technology. And no, technology cannot help make in person community, it's something organic that needs to happen with people.
Is this really all that surprising? We have a ton of things ongoing now that we either know or suspect are big contributors to this:
- the whole male loneliness epidemic
- a longstanding loss of community and social organizations around the country
- a pretty terrible job market for many Americans
- plenty of things to be stressed or worried about. Geopolitical instability. Erosion of individual rights. The complete failure of political leadership across the US. Rising cancer rates. Take your pick.
I do think the alcohol-fueled hookup culture that persisted in the US from the '70s to the '00s will be seen as a historical anomaly in the long run. The idea of empowerment has given way to the understanding that women have almost nothing to gain from the arrangement, and have bore the brunt of most of its' downsides.
Aside from the other examples given I suppose (listed in no particular order, numbers not related to importance of reason)
1. Social movements promoting not having sex. Obviously not that big a thing but it does cut down the available sex partners.
2. reiterating the examples people give of animosity between male and female, straight sex still the bulk of sex and does seem to be a lot more reasons for avoiding each other nowadays.
3. neurodivergence becoming more acceptable, many neurodivergent people have lesser sex drives, in the past you might have just decided to go ahead and have sex because oh well it's what one does isn't it.
4. sex is going down in comparison to previous decades which might have been especially high sex decades. Perhaps the sexual revolution was revolutionary but now it is somewhat old hat and not as interesting.
Article is written by a conservative think tank pushing traditional family values. The statistics might or might not be valid but I wouldn't take their word for it.
In micro economics, when a substitute reduces in cost and increases in quality, we see a substitution effect [0] (amusingly, coined by economist Eugen Slutsky), i.e. people switch away from the relatively expensive good and into its lower cost substitute.
The primary substitute for physical sex is DIY with porn. Over the past 30 years porn has become orders of magnitudes cheaper (pre internet, it was ~$9 to see ~5 humans nude a la playboy magazine, and involved a trip to the shops; now it's approximately free and instant). Porn simultaneously increased orders of magnitude in quality and variety.
If you apply the same thinking to any other two substitute products (i.e. one gets 1000x cheaper whilst improving in quality and variety, whilst the original stays approximately the same), we could expect the exact same results, i.e. switching from one to the other.
It's not really surprising. Hetero sexual desire has been framed negatively for well over a decade, as at best exploitative and at worst misogynistic and perverted. Men told that if you want sex you're part of society's biggest problem, and women told that if you give in to a man's sordid desires you are being taken advantage of and subjugated. All we ever talk about is the dreaded 'power imbalance'.
We've removed sex from normal life as far as possible. Films can be full of violence but any hint of titillation is verboten now. Any reference to sex in normal walks of life is seen as harassment, chauvinistic or pandering to the male gaze. Our culture is influenced by global social and religious conservatism in the quest to sell media to as many markets as possible. Our own new conservatism (the so-called left wing) is just as bad.
On top of that we have the culmination of a few decades of obsessive education about STDs and sex as a dangerous act that can ruin lives. A far cry from 'The Joy of Sex' as a cultural phenomenon.
We're letting prudes and those with deep psychological issues around sex call the shots. Millennials and Gen Z may be a lost cause, but let's hope that Gen A can rewrite the rules.
That’s an exaggeration. As an Asian who has interacted with Americans, I still see the US as one of the most sexualized places in the world. The emphasis on physical attractiveness is extreme, and the hook-up culture, pick-up culture and PUA industry have influenced not just America but Asia as well. What you’re describing sounds more like a pushback against abuse and manipulative forms of hooking up, which is a natural reaction in a society shaped by individualism. People are simply becoming more cautious. This will likely drive an even greater focus on physical and sexual
appearance as consensual hookups continue.
To indulge my inner freshman-dorm-philosopher: It feels like every social dynamic is becoming "more of itself" as the engines of standardization and commodification churn. With the social technologies bringing the same phenomena to interpersonal relationships as the forces of capital did to our material relationships: everything is relatively abundant but cheap and interchangeable and disposable; friction is sanded away; stimuli are hyper-optimized for salience; everything's about closing the next sale, and a long-term relationship is an obstacle to that end...
How can the real world compete? Why build when you can rent? Why turn from the endless variety and bright colors and ocean of perfect bodies or whatever, toward something that's "special because it's ours," and frankly, much more boring than in the movies (or The New York Magazine)? Plus, the risk! The vulnerability!
Was it John Mayer who got a bit of hot water over his relationship with pornography [1]?
More than enough is too much, what is essential is invisible to the eye, it is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important, etc. :)
I didn’t see any mention in the article about the rise of obesity as a possible cause.
Aside from the social aspects which could be debated, older obese adult men are more likely to have medical conditions that would decrease their ability to have sex.
I think the other reasons they posted are valid but was expecting a comment on that.
As others have pointed out, we need more space, and time, to socialise with each other in unstructured ways. This will inevitably lead to more sex (pure human nature). There are many very obvious reasons why this isn’t happening, like working longer hours to cope with cost of living, or high real estate prices that make it financially unsustainable to operate third places.
Nearly all in person interaction is a meaningless waste of time now. The only thing really left is sex and work. You're not supposed to have sex with your coworkers (if you even have a job where you work in person) and everyone is shamed for going to places specifically for sex so there's literally no way too initiate that kind of relationship anymore.
This is very much upstream of sex. I just started a masters program this week, and on Friday night at 8 pm, zero out of 52 of my cohort members wanted to join me for a beer. It's anecdotal, but seemed really remarkable to me. So it's not just sex, young people don't socialize in-person nearly as much as they used to. I have no idea how this will be addressed, if it does ever get addressed.
One thing I’ve noticed in London, being recently single after a 7 year relationship is that people’s behaviour on dating apps has changed pretty considerably.
Speaking to female and male friends, both sides are seeing them as a complete shitshow that’s not helping either side meet the right people.
It's a global phenomenon, I think it's just one of those inconvenient truths about women entering the workforce no longer seeing their central purpose in life being a mother and being pressured to find a desirable spouse to support her.
I'm most surprised that people used to spend 12.3 hours/week with friends. With work, errands, laundry, relationships, family I find it hard to believe. Plus anyone that's a parent to a young kid in that age range. That's socialized 2-3 hours 5 nights a week, or a long hangout on the weekend. None of my friends have that kind of time.
People had kids earlier. A one week beach vacation with parents of other kids in a shared house over spring break would be 25% of that figure. Add some selection of little league/soccer/ballet/gymnastics/church/children's theater and kid stuff might be a majority. Dinner parties, their own adult sports, rotary club, charity ball, fishing, hunting. Church and breakfast or lunch before/after with church friends alone might be a consistent 4-5 hours with friends a week. A weekly game of golf could add 3-5 hours.
i wonder if the antisocial trend that has been discussed here have led to an unhealthy skepticism of others. tiktok videos that tell my late teen daughter that a boy who doesn’t check _all_ the boxes is unfit or unworthy of relationship and intimacy. there’s wisdom in looking for flags (red, green, or otherwise) if you’re seeking a committed relationship, but they honestly create so much fear and skepticism in her (and her peer group) and functionally objectify boys as emotional and practical vending machines that are held to a 100% standard. essentially they are a different form of pornography that sets up unrealistic expectations for potential partners.
instead of using it as a tool and saying “hey, let’s try this” (sexually, emotionally, practically), they’re conditioned to just pull the ripcord if you don’t meet expectations
45 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 60.7 ms ] threadFrom the article:
"When it comes to sexlessness (“no sex in the last year”) among young adults, the biggest change comes post-2010."
"Between 2010 and 2019, the average time young adults spent with friends in a given week fell by nearly 50%, from 12.8 hours to just 6.5 hours."
No doubt there are other factors too, and all of the factors are entangled together as in any complex system, but I think internet and smartphones is one of the biggest aspects to point to.
It would help if we built third spaces that weren't centered around alcohol, which is also declining in popularity, especially with young adults.
Americans: why isn't anyone having sex anymore??
Also Americans: Abstinence only! You'll get pregnant! No abortions! STDs will kill you! Men deserve sex! We're not going to teach you how your body works!
Of course we end up with declining sex, in a country so obsessed with individualism and sex-adverse.
I do see hope though. The kids in my community are being taught age-appropriate, consent-based sex ed, and the availability of free, high-quality sex ed is improving.
I would be really interested to see if sex frequency is declining for everyone, or just for people who aren't putting in any emotional labor to learning and growing as a person when it comes to sexuality.
Just some off-the-cuff thoughts :)
I think you got this one backwards.
The messaging I've seen is the opposite "Men don't deserve sex!".
The dead bedroom is particularly popular when the boyfriend in question is, in the words of the girlfriend in question, "gentle and treating his girlfriend better than any of her previous boyfriends".
Okay, but don't get surprised if men listen to you and avoid having sex.
I'm not one of those weirdos who can't see that materially in some superficial ways, our lives are better than ever: medicine, toys, entertainment, and a lot of other stuff, better than ever. Not only that, I can even acknowledge that capitalism is what has provided this bounty to us.
But what it also does is underline all the time that you, personally are not "adequate" unless you want to be the kind of person who hustles all the time, who is seeking an angle or an alpha, who wants to be an entrepreneur of some kind. I think this just doesn't appeal to most people the message society is sending loud and clear is that if you just want to have a nice life and you don't want to constantly figure out new ways to improve your capital, you'll get left behind. I think for many people this doesn't seem like a cool world to have a baby in.
- the whole male loneliness epidemic
- a longstanding loss of community and social organizations around the country
- a pretty terrible job market for many Americans
- plenty of things to be stressed or worried about. Geopolitical instability. Erosion of individual rights. The complete failure of political leadership across the US. Rising cancer rates. Take your pick.
Probably better phrased as the 'immature men epidemic'. Put responsibility where it belongs.
1. Social movements promoting not having sex. Obviously not that big a thing but it does cut down the available sex partners.
2. reiterating the examples people give of animosity between male and female, straight sex still the bulk of sex and does seem to be a lot more reasons for avoiding each other nowadays.
3. neurodivergence becoming more acceptable, many neurodivergent people have lesser sex drives, in the past you might have just decided to go ahead and have sex because oh well it's what one does isn't it.
4. sex is going down in comparison to previous decades which might have been especially high sex decades. Perhaps the sexual revolution was revolutionary but now it is somewhat old hat and not as interesting.
The primary substitute for physical sex is DIY with porn. Over the past 30 years porn has become orders of magnitudes cheaper (pre internet, it was ~$9 to see ~5 humans nude a la playboy magazine, and involved a trip to the shops; now it's approximately free and instant). Porn simultaneously increased orders of magnitude in quality and variety.
If you apply the same thinking to any other two substitute products (i.e. one gets 1000x cheaper whilst improving in quality and variety, whilst the original stays approximately the same), we could expect the exact same results, i.e. switching from one to the other.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_effect
We've removed sex from normal life as far as possible. Films can be full of violence but any hint of titillation is verboten now. Any reference to sex in normal walks of life is seen as harassment, chauvinistic or pandering to the male gaze. Our culture is influenced by global social and religious conservatism in the quest to sell media to as many markets as possible. Our own new conservatism (the so-called left wing) is just as bad.
On top of that we have the culmination of a few decades of obsessive education about STDs and sex as a dangerous act that can ruin lives. A far cry from 'The Joy of Sex' as a cultural phenomenon.
We're letting prudes and those with deep psychological issues around sex call the shots. Millennials and Gen Z may be a lost cause, but let's hope that Gen A can rewrite the rules.
To indulge my inner freshman-dorm-philosopher: It feels like every social dynamic is becoming "more of itself" as the engines of standardization and commodification churn. With the social technologies bringing the same phenomena to interpersonal relationships as the forces of capital did to our material relationships: everything is relatively abundant but cheap and interchangeable and disposable; friction is sanded away; stimuli are hyper-optimized for salience; everything's about closing the next sale, and a long-term relationship is an obstacle to that end...
How can the real world compete? Why build when you can rent? Why turn from the endless variety and bright colors and ocean of perfect bodies or whatever, toward something that's "special because it's ours," and frankly, much more boring than in the movies (or The New York Magazine)? Plus, the risk! The vulnerability!
Was it John Mayer who got a bit of hot water over his relationship with pornography [1]?
More than enough is too much, what is essential is invisible to the eye, it is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important, etc. :)
[1] https://www.playboy.com/read/playboy-interview-john-mayer/?s...
Aside from the social aspects which could be debated, older obese adult men are more likely to have medical conditions that would decrease their ability to have sex.
I think the other reasons they posted are valid but was expecting a comment on that.
Speaking to female and male friends, both sides are seeing them as a complete shitshow that’s not helping either side meet the right people.
instead of using it as a tool and saying “hey, let’s try this” (sexually, emotionally, practically), they’re conditioned to just pull the ripcord if you don’t meet expectations