x402 — An open protocol for internet-native payments (x402.org)

Given that this protocol is Coinbase sponsored, you can be sure that the whole KYC/AML bullshit is going to be applied to every transaction.

Want to read a paid message? Please upload your recent utility bill and confirm your identity with a video call. Sorry, you are not a US citizen with possession of the only subset of ID documents we support, reject.

In Brazil we already have a free, instantaneous payment system with a well documented API

https://github.com/bacen/pix-api

>Does x402 prevent the double-spending problem?

This depends on the implementation on the underlying network, but basically the spending signs an authorization for transfer, and the merchant either settles that onchain themselves or delegates to what is called a facilitator that settles on their behalf. On EVM chains for the exact payment scheme this leverages EIP-3009 signatures

Nothing, it's just a stupid thing for making some headlines, and will be forgotten tomorrow.

Basically, this fancy "protocol", is just a HTTP middleware that throws a payment required error and returns a crypto address lol.

>Given that this runs atop Payment Required, doesn’t this mean that each API request would involve an extra one or two data transfers?

Yes, assuming its the first time you've interacted with an API endpoint and don't have cached payment requirements.

>Is there a reason why you wouldn’t pay ahead of time? I just understand why you couldn’t buy a few dozen/hundred/thousand dollars worth of credits, and wait until it runs low.

This would require manually integrating each vendor, which is totally valid if your agent performs a lot of a single type of task, but we suspect over time there will be huge value in agents being able to dynamically select tools / apis they want to use to accomplish their tasks, and dynamically pay for what they use

You seem like a knowledgeable crypto user. Can you help integrate lightning payments with x402? Then we'll be rid of this Base/corporate-tech nonsense.

> Free and open payments should be bitcoin based to be truely decentralized

Agreed. Which is why 5 years ago, I developed L402 (formerly known as LSAT) to fill this very gap:

  * https://github.com/lightninglabs/L402 (https://lightning-labs-2.gitbook.io/lsat)

  * https://lightning.engineering/posts/2020-03-30-lsat/

The x402 protocol as defined uses purely out of band payment verification. This trait makes the "one line of code" to add integration not entirely accurate, as there's still a substantial amount of code needed at both the client and server to verify payment receipt.

L402 is more opinionated as utilizes the Lightning Network (LN) directly within the protocol. The server presents the client with a SHA 256 payment hash embedded within an LN invoice. The server requires the client to present the pre-image for said payment hash. The only way the client can obtain said pre-image is by paying the invoice on the Lightning Network (all payments are conditional payments where a pre-image needs to be revealed to complete a payment).

L402 also adds a layer of macaroons, enabling the protocol handle both payment and fine-grained authentication.

The advantages of LN over something like Coinbase's Base chain include:

  * Privacy: Coinbase and the entire world sees all your transactions. 

  * Decentralization & Reliability: Base is a singleton instance, if it goes down, you can't make any transactions. LN is decentralized, just like the internet, you can always route around failures. 
 
  * Settlement Speed: Base blocks happen every 2 seconds, until that period your transaction isn't finalized. However that's only committing to Base, and not the underlying ETH chain, which has 12 second block time. Latency on LN is primarily a function of e2e network delay, so it can be as little as 100 ms.

bitcoin is decentralized in name only.

x402 as a protocol has no fees, but the underlying network transactions are conducted on my have costs. Merchants can choose the underlying network transactions are conducted on that best fit their usecase. x402 also has the concept of a facilitator, which exists to abstract away the underlying payment networks. Many facilitators (including Coinbase's) subsidize the gas used for transactions.

There is some Blockchains where the fees are super low, like Solana

The protocol has no fees. If you use it with a blockchain, then there might possibly be a fee. If you use it with VISA, there will be a fee, etc.

Coinbase's blockchain (Base) generally has sub-cent send fees for USDC. Solana's fees are also in that ballpark.

Nano has 0 transaction fees in the sense that you have to do some work function instead to prevent spam

Obligatory self promotion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hHG8gOkZBE & https://github.com/SerJaimeLannister/randomnano & just because I am lazy and I had never written what this software is except in one comment on HN which I am also going to link lol which is going to be best that I can sum it up with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44700680

Which loops through a lot of transactions with a custom nano vanity id generator to embed data into blockchain which would have 0 gas fees.

Want to do something with it one day but not sure how to, or even if its worth it given the decentralized nature and Like, I want to really play with it once I can secure myself a college and then a job & maybe I will do it in my side project.

all these are solvable problems

we can get decentralized systems to sub 0.0000000000001 cent fees. Fee volatility Wille xist but thats a prerequisite for openness.

> if it's based upon a blockchain, there will be transaction fees

Not necessarily. Crypto wallet can authorize expense just by signing something and sending that signature. No blockchain transaction takes place. Then these signatures are batched.

The free web hasn't gone anywhere. You're using it now aren't you, on HN?

Coinbase, Kraken, etc... would. And they connect to your bank, so it doesn't seem like a problem if banks don't want to get involved.

Thankfully it doesn't matter because this happens on a blockchain so banks can go pound sand with their restriction and KYC/AML horseshit.

Given that this is Coinbase sponsored I'm not sure this will be even available to the people of the world despite being on blockchain.

No, they're working together on it

> AP2 is designed as a universal protocol, providing security and trust for a variety of payments like stablecoins and cryptocurrencies. To accelerate support for the web3 ecosystem, in collaboration with Coinbase, Ethereum Foundation, MetaMask and other leading organizations, we have extended the core constructs of AP2 and launched the A2A x402 extension, a production-ready solution for agent-based crypto payments. Extensions like these will help shape the evolution of cryptocurrency integrations within the core AP2 protocol.

[0] https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/a...

Yeah, it's mostly bitcoin that's slow. SOL is sub-second, AVAX has a new architecture that has gone from a few seconds to sub-second, and while I have never used SUI I believe that one too is sub-second. ETH is still relatively slow, but not bitcoin slow.