All the security issues patched in software have either been there since it was released or are introduced with feature updates. As a security veteran, the end of patching is hardly as dire as this imagines.
Update:
Patching has always been security theater for systems where security actually matters (national security), because it's assumed nation states already know vulnerabilities often years before there's a public disclosure or patch. These patches have always been to deal with nuisance actors impacting non-critical users. Besides, the user getting tricked is always the biggest risk, and patching does nothing at all for that.
If you care about security, don't get on the internet. The device you're using right now is probably already trivial compromised by unpatched vulnerabilities, if not known only by a state actor than a spyware company. Pretending this isn't the case is worse than discontinuing vanity security theater.
This is like everyone freaking out because they're shutting down the TSA. The idea that patches are important and effective is more dangerous than not patching.
Vista had a number of QOL improvements, and later in the cycle once the drivers and apps were fixed to stop demanding admin access all the time, and the terrible Intel GPUs that struggled with XP and died under Vista were replaced, it was pretty good.
Arguably better than XP. 7 and 10 didn't really give most folks much better experience, they benefited from Vista already forcing everyone to update their crap.
> Windows 10 is used by 42.8% of all Windows computer users worldwide. By contrast, when support for Windows 8 ended in January 2016, only 3.7% of Windows users were still using it. Only 2.2% of Windows users were still using Windows 8.1 when support ended in January 2023.
> Many of the computers still running Windows 10 can’t upgrade to Windows 11. In 2022, hardware researchers found that 43% of all computers running Windows 10 could not move to Windows 11 — which equaled around 400 million computers at that time.
Wow. This is actually pretty troubling. I naively assumed Microsoft was just following previous practice and that this wasn't a big deal, but this is actually... insane.
I cannot help but believe TPM2 and this change is being pushed by the MPAA or more likely some governments. Yes I know I am in tinfoil hat territory, but I see no real reason for the need of TPM 2.0.
My daily driver is a desktop computer that still runs triple-A video games but can't be upgraded because the motherboard doesn't have a TPM. Combined with the unbelievable hostility MS seems to have for customers and the fact that any .NET development you need to do these days no longer requires windows this will push me out of their ecosystem. It's wild to think that in less than 20 years I've gone from MS everything to MS nothing.
I'm in the same boat. Windows 11 was so unbelievably bad that I switched to Mac overnight, after 25 years on MS. Mac isn't perfect but the hardware is top notch and they're not trying to embed ads into the OS.
The only things I miss from Windows now are videogames, ShareX, and Everything. But Raycast and iStat Menus, while different, are awesome in their own way.
Likewise. 3950 cpu, 32gb ram, 2080 GPU. This runs everything 1440p just fine.
The system was built 6 years ago but things just haven't moved fast in hardware. It doesn't have a TPM 2.0 module though so no Windows 11. One nice thing about that fact is that i never get the upgrade nags since it fails compatibility checks.
Part of me is hoping we get some third party OS patches if anything major crops up. This has happened for previous versions of Windows.
I plan to continue running this as-is past October 14. If something serious enough does crop up with no third party mitigations or fixes I'll move to Linux. I could technically install a TPM 2.0 module on the motherboard but i don't want to. Not enough benefit to me as someone that's never installed malware (I'm extremely cautious about what i allow to run on it to the extent of not running various binary distributed game mods).
Not a fair comparison. Hardware security device has nothing to do with general compute power. It's like saying "What do you mean 'my Ferrari is not a good firetruck'??? It can go 0 to 100 in 4 seconds!"
Microsoft isn't ending Windows 10 support, it's all just marketing to encourage people to move over. They already partially backed out by saying they will provide updates for (At least) 1 more year if certain conditions are met, but they will probably end up giving everyone the critical security updates anyway. The quantity of windows 10 machines still being used is just too large to allow some vulnerability to permanently smear microsoft because 40% of all windows PCs got hacked or something.
I currently have Windows 10 and refuse to upgrade to Windows 11. There is no way I'm going to allow the malware that is Windows 11 into my house. I thought they had turned a new leaf over the last few years but I guess not. Ramming things down my throat is not how I'm going to live my life so Microsoft can fuck right off. I'm already half off Windows because I switch between Windows and MacOS throughout the day so if need be I will just throw away my Windows machine and consolidate on Apple.
Yes I am. I prefer the window placer thingy in win11.
As I use an ultra wide monitor, having the menu centered works better for me, too. Win11 seems more performant and snappier to me, but that might be an illusion. Other things I amnot sure exist in win 10, as it has been a long time since I ran it on my personal hardware: Passkey support with windows hello.
In the end, the chances seem so minimal, I am surprised how much disdain people have for win11, when it feels nearly the same as win10 to me.
Windows 11 fixed a lot of issues I was having, particularly in things like driver support and bluetooth connectivity. It also has a lot of little UI touches that are improvements (like volume control or game management) - particularly on a laptop. Also, the settings and configuration menus have gotten usability updates for the first time since Vista.
I haven't noticed any bugs or problems (or even the intrusive advertisements that I have heard so much about). But then again, I didn't try Windows 11 until two years after it was released, so it could be that I just missed out on a bad launch.
At the end of the day, it's like 95% the same as Windows 10 (although on my other PC I am still running an unactivated free version!)
While the Win10 eol annoys me on a personal level, I don't know what good extending the support would do; it would just kick the bucket forward with no real solution. If MS added another year of free support then we would be just in the exact same situation next year. Windows 10 is going away some day, so might as well stick with the original eol date.
I prefer Mac too, but don’t forget that Apple typically only supports devices for seven years befote being declared ‘vintage’, after which time they will be ineligible for updates.
Windows 10 on the other hand was released over ten years ago now.
Not the best comparison, but it’s increasing more difficult to separate their OS support lifecycles from their M* hardware.
I expect that they will cave in to some degree and expand the free ESU program to private consumers outside the EU.
Don’t forget also that Office 2019 is also going EOL (among other things) on 14 October. Despite Microsoft’s efforts, people still use and even prefer their non-cloud products at home and enterprise.
The most exposed component of Windows is going to be the Edge browser, but throw in an unpatched Outlook and Word, and there’s a potential blood bath brewing after the first few vulnerabilities are disclosed.
> people still use and even prefer their non-cloud products at home and enterprise.
You can still buy office as single-purchase standalone versions. I think the most recent version is 2024.
I worked on a project migrating away from office 2003... in 2022. In my opinion, people use outdated versions of Office because they want to, as it fulfils their needs, not because they can't buy standalone versions.
Since this is “hacker” news. Just to let everyone know it is trivial to remove the tpm checks from the installer. You can do it manually or just download rufus and it has an option to remove them for you when you write an iso to a usb drive for install. Its a totally artificial requirement to drive sales. Windows 11 runs just fine on the older hardware. Like others have said windows ltsc is another great option. That being said…I agree its VERY annoying.
> Many of the computers still running Windows 10 can’t upgrade to Windows 11. In 2022, hardware researchers found that 43% of all computers running Windows 10 could not move to Windows 11 — which equaled around 400 million computers at that time.
My understanding is that Microsoft has more or less phased out the requirement in question (that a CPU has TPM 2.0).
This is clearly a problem caused by the suspicious absence of governments. Semms they are wetting their appetite over locked surveilanceware. This is the new business model of M$$$
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[ 1.8 ms ] story [ 51.3 ms ] thread* Windows 10 (IoT LTSC) will actually be supported to 2032.
* Microsoft is forcing hardware requirements that are just there because reasons as Win 11 IoT/LTSC have lesser requirements.
* Because Microsoft sold Win 10 till 2023, so it is basically shooting it down after 2 years.
* Because Win10 still has 40% of market share.
Update:
Patching has always been security theater for systems where security actually matters (national security), because it's assumed nation states already know vulnerabilities often years before there's a public disclosure or patch. These patches have always been to deal with nuisance actors impacting non-critical users. Besides, the user getting tricked is always the biggest risk, and patching does nothing at all for that.
If you care about security, don't get on the internet. The device you're using right now is probably already trivial compromised by unpatched vulnerabilities, if not known only by a state actor than a spyware company. Pretending this isn't the case is worse than discontinuing vanity security theater.
This is like everyone freaking out because they're shutting down the TSA. The idea that patches are important and effective is more dangerous than not patching.
Arguably better than XP. 7 and 10 didn't really give most folks much better experience, they benefited from Vista already forcing everyone to update their crap.
> Many of the computers still running Windows 10 can’t upgrade to Windows 11. In 2022, hardware researchers found that 43% of all computers running Windows 10 could not move to Windows 11 — which equaled around 400 million computers at that time.
Wow. This is actually pretty troubling. I naively assumed Microsoft was just following previous practice and that this wasn't a big deal, but this is actually... insane.
I had Win11 running in a vm, and just the amount of ads it would show in the task bar or notifications at idle leaves me flabbergasted.
The only things I miss from Windows now are videogames, ShareX, and Everything. But Raycast and iStat Menus, while different, are awesome in their own way.
The system was built 6 years ago but things just haven't moved fast in hardware. It doesn't have a TPM 2.0 module though so no Windows 11. One nice thing about that fact is that i never get the upgrade nags since it fails compatibility checks.
Part of me is hoping we get some third party OS patches if anything major crops up. This has happened for previous versions of Windows.
I plan to continue running this as-is past October 14. If something serious enough does crop up with no third party mitigations or fixes I'll move to Linux. I could technically install a TPM 2.0 module on the motherboard but i don't want to. Not enough benefit to me as someone that's never installed malware (I'm extremely cautious about what i allow to run on it to the extent of not running various binary distributed game mods).
In the end, the chances seem so minimal, I am surprised how much disdain people have for win11, when it feels nearly the same as win10 to me.
Windows 11 fixed a lot of issues I was having, particularly in things like driver support and bluetooth connectivity. It also has a lot of little UI touches that are improvements (like volume control or game management) - particularly on a laptop. Also, the settings and configuration menus have gotten usability updates for the first time since Vista.
I haven't noticed any bugs or problems (or even the intrusive advertisements that I have heard so much about). But then again, I didn't try Windows 11 until two years after it was released, so it could be that I just missed out on a bad launch.
At the end of the day, it's like 95% the same as Windows 10 (although on my other PC I am still running an unactivated free version!)
Windows 10 on the other hand was released over ten years ago now.
Not the best comparison, but it’s increasing more difficult to separate their OS support lifecycles from their M* hardware.
Don’t forget also that Office 2019 is also going EOL (among other things) on 14 October. Despite Microsoft’s efforts, people still use and even prefer their non-cloud products at home and enterprise.
The most exposed component of Windows is going to be the Edge browser, but throw in an unpatched Outlook and Word, and there’s a potential blood bath brewing after the first few vulnerabilities are disclosed.
You can still buy office as single-purchase standalone versions. I think the most recent version is 2024.
I worked on a project migrating away from office 2003... in 2022. In my opinion, people use outdated versions of Office because they want to, as it fulfils their needs, not because they can't buy standalone versions.
My understanding is that Microsoft has more or less phased out the requirement in question (that a CPU has TPM 2.0).