It seems their business model is more existentially challenged by LLMs these days. I’m waiting for the regulations preventing AI being used for taxes and legal counsel
I never understood why the Revenue can't provide a set of simple online forms for tax returns like India does. Heck, India provided Excel sheets with VBA script for many years, that produced an XML which can be submitted as tax filing. Tax filing is now a 15-minute affair for a salary-only income in India.
the UK seems to be going in this same bad direction now "As part of our journey to modernise and digitise our filing routes, all accounts must be filed using commercial software from 1 April 2027."
https://changestoukcompanylaw.campaign.gov.uk/changes-to-acc...
you used to be able to do this yourself on the gov website for free
They are not as harmful as some other corporations, but for some weird reason I hate such parasites on our society much more than some bigger offenders. And I'm not even from USA :) . How do you all tolerate this?
The problem is how ridiculously bloated and inefficient the US tax system is. Companies see that as a possibility for exploitation and wet their shirts with drool.
I wonder why there has never been open source tax software. It seems exactly the kind of thing the community would be good at. I imagine it would be hard for very complex taxes. But for the 60% that have simple taxes, I don’t think it should be unmanageable.
Is it a matter of liability? Like I could definitely see a big issue with mistakes — even if it was just operator error.
Precisely why I built https://freetofile.com (it’s a simple static site with React for internationalization that automatically renders in Spanish, Chinese, Haitian Creole, or English depending on browser settings). It’s shocking and depressing how many low income people don’t know they don’t need to spend $100-200 to file their taxes.
I want to blanket my area (well the whole country really but baby steps…) in signs with the URL during tax season. I really do loathe the entire industry at this point due to their gross practices around free filing. Some offer “free” online filing but deceptively upsell until they squeeze some money out of the customer. So I want to make any little push back I can against these companies.
An offer and suggestion. The offer: I'm happy to blog and otherwise share your site with folks in my little part of the world (Northern Neck of Virginia).
Suggestion: Consider a redesign where the text is not white on a dark background. I just found this design guidance from CDC https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/11938; not sure if there is updated research. If there is, I'd love to read it.
After a recent post[0] suggesting the federal tax code was already online in machine readable form, my first thought was "could I write my own US tax-filing software?" But the answer is still no.
Paying taxes doesn't mean just paying federal taxes. Users don't want free Federal taxes software if it means they'll have to re-renter all their information into different software for their State taxes -- especially when more than one state is involved, such as for people who cross state lines for work, or moved mid-year. A tax service is a massive value add.
The "free" software you get to do your federal taxes will be no threat to TurboTax until the states are required to publish their tax codes in the same machine readable format as the feds.
Reminder: FreeTaxUSA is a great alternative, I've been using it to file my taxes the last 3 years and plan to use it if I can this year. My situation is made harder this year by my wife starting a business.
Taxes are crazy anyhow. The government won't tell me how much I owe, but if I'm incompetent enough at figuring out the number, suddenly they both have a clear idea of what I owe and also I'm now in trouble. Why doesn't the government just tell me what I owe, and if I think they've calculated incorrectly, only then do I do my own filing or hire a CPA or whatever else?
>Why doesn't the government just tell me what I owe, and if I think they've calculated incorrectly, only then do I do my own filing or hire a CPA or whatever else?
This is precisely how it works in both EU countries in which I've lived.
It is like with all laws. There isn't an agent following your every step telling you what to do and what not to do. You are supposed to know the law and abide by it, and they will occasionally have people make sure of it, be it by police or tax auditors.
For taxes, how is the government supposed to know about the work you did in exchange for cash? Or make a difference between a vacation and a tax destructible business trip. They will sometimes look into it if they suspect fraud, but they have no way of knowing exactly what you owe beforehand, and that's a good thing, surveillance is as bad as it is right now, not mentioning the costs.
The best they can do, and that's how it is done in most countries, is to tell you "according to what we know, you owe us XXX", but it only works in the simple cases, like for those whose only income is their salary. If they missed something and their estimation is wrong, you must declare it or you can be in trouble. It is just a convenience, you still need to do your taxes correctly and you are responsible for it.
One may argue the rules could be simpler, but they are complex because the world is complex, and even small changes can make or break industries.
The government does tell you the information it has. Most people don’t realize this and therefore aren’t optimizing their taxes, but it is a trick known by accountants.
Each year, you should file an extension and then wait for your IRS to publish its transcript (in May I believe) that shows all the wage/income and other info the IRS has on you.
Taxes are free to file. Just fill out the form(s) and mail it in. I find it way easier than using crap software. No logins, no ads, no spying, no losing my progress. There’s literally instructions for every box on the form.
Americans are the proverbial frogs in the pot. They've been ratcheting up the heat over the last 30 years, the first signs of danger are well past, now its 300mm people being held captive by abusive leaders and insanely greedy profiteers.
This entire story exemplifies everything wrong with the USA and its form of corporate run government. Socialize the risks, privatize the profits and foremost, let the foxes not only guard the henhouse, give it to them!
World, if you're listening. We need a pepperoni pizza.
Around 2018, my accountant retired and sold his business to some other firm. That year, the other firm had some newbie cpa do my taxes. If I had blindly gone with his effort, I would have had to pay thousands of dollars. The problem is, he made a huge mistake because he didn't listen to what I had told him regarding a step up cost basis on inherited stocks. I fired them the instant I saw that issue. Then I was stuck with nobody to do my taxes! I used TurboTax and got it done myself and actually received a small refund that year. And no, nothing was done fraudulently, it's just that I knew the details of our situation far better than any cpa who refused to listen to what I told him or was too "green" to know what I was talking about (unforgivable, imho). I've used TurboTax ever since then. Yes, I know it sucks in many ways, but the thing is, they bailed me out and saved me thousands of dollars over the years for hundreds of dollars in fees.
In Poland since 3-4 years tax form for regular employees is automatically filled and submitted. Before then many NGOs filled them for you (directly or indirectly) for 1% of tax (I think avoiding loss of 1% motivated govt to make this automated system).
Unfortunately TT is [still] a must for expats. While my new home country makes things extraordinarily simple, not only for the free online filing, but also for an amazing assistance one could get from the local tax services (first year I reached out to them, in the office, they had their expat expert fill out the taxes online, in my account, in front of me, so I could learn on doing them on my own, from then on), filing to avoid double taxation, with uncle Sam, is stil a PITA
I think it would be great to just have the IRS website list all reported income. Free automated filing is amazing, but if that is too large of a political battle just making this income information easily accessible would be a giant first step.
40 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 51.6 ms ] threadSome previous discussion:
2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414
2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411
Edit: This is timely being on the homepage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45601230
In every other country in the world, taxes are handled by their respective financial authorities.
Why must every service and thing in the US must be a private profit making thing?
you used to be able to do this yourself on the gov website for free
Is it a matter of liability? Like I could definitely see a big issue with mistakes — even if it was just operator error.
I want to blanket my area (well the whole country really but baby steps…) in signs with the URL during tax season. I really do loathe the entire industry at this point due to their gross practices around free filing. Some offer “free” online filing but deceptively upsell until they squeeze some money out of the customer. So I want to make any little push back I can against these companies.
An offer and suggestion. The offer: I'm happy to blog and otherwise share your site with folks in my little part of the world (Northern Neck of Virginia).
Suggestion: Consider a redesign where the text is not white on a dark background. I just found this design guidance from CDC https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/11938; not sure if there is updated research. If there is, I'd love to read it.
To clarify, do you have a blog that you've managed to share with your local community? Or are these two separate statements?
I ask because I've been lately interested in the idea of a "community" site - a 'hub' for locals - so if that's what you do, I'd love to hear more!
If this is as big of a deal as people claim, surely a non-profit could have written a free tax filing app and just made it available to people?
Does TurboTax have any kind of regulatory moat / AT&T style monopoly?
Paying taxes doesn't mean just paying federal taxes. Users don't want free Federal taxes software if it means they'll have to re-renter all their information into different software for their State taxes -- especially when more than one state is involved, such as for people who cross state lines for work, or moved mid-year. A tax service is a massive value add.
The "free" software you get to do your federal taxes will be no threat to TurboTax until the states are required to publish their tax codes in the same machine readable format as the feds.
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45599567
https://www.freetaxusa.com/
Mostly because of:
> TurboTax’s 20-year fight to stop Americans from filing taxes for free
This is precisely how it works in both EU countries in which I've lived.
For taxes, how is the government supposed to know about the work you did in exchange for cash? Or make a difference between a vacation and a tax destructible business trip. They will sometimes look into it if they suspect fraud, but they have no way of knowing exactly what you owe beforehand, and that's a good thing, surveillance is as bad as it is right now, not mentioning the costs.
The best they can do, and that's how it is done in most countries, is to tell you "according to what we know, you owe us XXX", but it only works in the simple cases, like for those whose only income is their salary. If they missed something and their estimation is wrong, you must declare it or you can be in trouble. It is just a convenience, you still need to do your taxes correctly and you are responsible for it.
One may argue the rules could be simpler, but they are complex because the world is complex, and even small changes can make or break industries.
Each year, you should file an extension and then wait for your IRS to publish its transcript (in May I believe) that shows all the wage/income and other info the IRS has on you.
This entire story exemplifies everything wrong with the USA and its form of corporate run government. Socialize the risks, privatize the profits and foremost, let the foxes not only guard the henhouse, give it to them!
World, if you're listening. We need a pepperoni pizza.
The Trump Administration is trying to get rid of it, but its been so successful and so well-rated that they're having trouble doing that.
Take corporate/dark/unlimited money out of politics and watch this problem (and many other) disappear.