So, say I buy a domain from Register.com and then manually post it on my Facebook that I bought this, that isn't Register.com's fault right?
This seems pointless because you could still just encourage people to do it manually, in another part of the purchase flow, or maybe even a week or two after? It seems to me that the patent just blocks you from having an official Facebook share button or Tweet (or something like that) button on the checkout summary page.
I'd love it if the clerk(s) in question could explain how it isn't "obvious to a person 'skilled in the relevant art' applying reasonable diligence and effort."
One thing these characters could patent is a system and method of auto renewing and parking a domain they host if their site is used to check on it as it approaches expiry. I give GoDaddy a wide berth.
There are pretty well established guidelines for determining the "obviousness" of a patent, and one of these (as you mention) is determining whether the patent would be obvious to one with an ordinary level of skill in the relevant art.
The average software developer can't code fizzbuzz. Therefore anything more sophisticated than fizzbuzz is potentially patentable.
Think about that. Really let it sink in.
I have come to believe that the problem isn't with software patents, the problem is with us. Most software developers really are that bad. It is easy to forget this, but the people who hang out on Hacker News are really a slim minority.
We need to get our own house in order and demand more of the people who practice this art. Other industries have professional certification or restrictive guild systems - maybe we need to adopt the same.
In gmail, I filter every email from GoDaddy and apply label "change registrar", just so I'll remember when my domains expire. I'm not really liking most things I see from GoDaddy; perhaps with the exception of pricing.
That's actually not the case. Godaddy implements this locally, and arguably in contravention of the ICANN policy.
oBDisclaimer: I participated in the development of the original and amended ICANN transfer policy. I understand that there has been a subsequent amendment and I'm just not interested enough anymore to find out what it includes. You may in fact actually be correct in that ICANN now permits this, although I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case :-)
The patent system is like a bug in a software that all your clients rely upon and will never let you fix. I expect peace in the middle east to happen before the patent system gets scrapped.
I wouldn't be so pessimistic. I've seen more and more attention to this in mainstream discussions. Some things just take a little longer to build momentum...
There's still a huge valid question about reform as opposed to scrap. The system would work if it was actually applied correctly. (I understand application is part of said system, but I'm referring to the overall human aspect, ie, the reason AskPatents.com was made.)
I understand why this is downmodded -- software patents as a whole are pretty awful. And I think we can just about all agree that the patent office is incapable of sifting through requests on its own.
But askpatents.com looks to me like it has some potential to work, and if it did, it might solve at least most of the really heinous examples. I'd say that at least merits making the possibility of reform an open question.
Forcing a massive shift in IP rights (that may not benefit large, entrenched interest) through Congress is an enormous undertaking that may not succeed. Reform may be a more practical option.
Even scarier is their definition of social network. From the patent document:
"Social networking websites may comprise internet-based social networking services that focus on building and verifying online social networks for communities of people who may share interests and activities, wish to communicate with each other efficiently, and may be interested in exploring the interests and activities of others, and which necessitates the use of software applications".
In addition to Twitter, Myspace, LinkedIn and Facebook they also list YouTube and Flickr as specific examples. This thing is pretty far reaching.
But that's just a small part of what the sites are doing these days, such as providing free renewal for the second year in case a user allows connecting its Facebook Account, and granting permission to the site to publish any promotion post on the wall of the user(which can be anything more than saying that user has registered an 'example.com' domain name on register.com).
They should have gone for a wider range of things.
Wow! What an innovation. I would never have thought of doing this. Its a shame I won't be able to do this myself now.
Hang on? Isn't everyone already doing this for just about every other online venture? Someone registered via Facebook -> Post to wall. Hmmm. Maybe I should copy and paste their patent application and switch out "domain name registration" for any other service name.
I think it is silly for 2 reason's. Firstly this is not an innovation in any shape or form. People have been doing this for years with everything. It shouldn't have been approved. Secondly, GoDaddy have spent time and money gaining a patent which they can't enforce. Seems silly. I feel they just wanted to add "using patented technology" in their advertising.
I was under the impression that those already didn't qualify for patents. At least, this is what my friend told me years ago when he was either in or had recently graduated from law school at UT.
Do a patent office search for "system and method" and you will discover that they certainly do qualify. There was a period where they did not, but then some appellate court suddenly decided they do and now you get what we have here.
Look under the heading "file wrapper" for all the communication. In particular, read:
CTNF Non-Final Rejection
REM Applicant Arguments/Remarks Made in an Amendment
NPL Non Patent Literature
NOA Notice of Allowance and Fees Due (PTOL-85)
The initial rejection (CTNF) is followed by applicant rebuttal (REM), several prior-art searchs (NPL) and then the acceptance (NOA, first document with 6 pages).
I'm not bored enough to read the whole thing, but the claims seem to have been some constrained on very technical points.
Please note: this patent is completely bogus, and I am not defending it. I am pointing this out because I think it is critically important for people to understand how the process works. Otherwise all this hand-wringing is for naught (and those who don't learn from history, etc...)
A suggestion for an enterprising web designer who happens to also be a bored 2L: make a website to semi-automate collation of prior art challenges. Court is not the only way to challege a patent. Patents can be challenged by 3rd parties through an "ex-parte re-examination request". One of the big limitations to this is the cost of the legal process and prior-art search/summation. I'm dreaming of a website that would allow crowd-sourcing to get 95% of the way to a ready-to-file submission, which could then be vetted and finalized by pro-bono lawyers, students in legal clinic, etc.
The patent is valid as of the issue date. A re-examination request can be filed at any time during the life of the patent.
I haven't yet heard what, if any, formal relationship AskPatents.com will have to the examination process going forward. However, at least for an already-issued patent a re-exam would be required.
From my understanding the director of the patent office David Kappos, was the one that asked the people at stack exchange to make this site. I suppose they indeed haven't given any further details of how they will interact, but I don't see him taking this initiative without intending to bring to the attention of his office the patent questions which receive the highest votes. (seeing that is how stack exchange works anyways.)
The promotion by the director is a great sign, and I can see AskPatents being very useful for prior-art searches (one of the results of which is the NPL document referenced above). It will hopefully improve results and save money.
Absent some statutory changes, it's hard to see how it will impact the prescribed, formal steps of the patent review process. Patent filings are a lot more complicated [edit: as compared to existing legal forms websites], but I can imagine a template interface that would allow crowd-sourcing before a final review to cross the Ts and dot the Is.
It would be phenomenal if the PTO streamlined the process themselves. Baby steps...
I wonder if it would be possible to collect some prior art, then call up a patent holder and shake him down for a little "settlement" to keep you from filing the re-exam.
The patent's claims are slightly more specific than the title would suggest, but are still absurdly broad. The patent appears to cover announcing, after a delay, a domain name registration on a social website using oauth.
76 comments
[ 207 ms ] story [ 3318 ms ] threadOr threatening enough people to sue them for umpteen fantastillion dollars unless they pay you ransom money^W^W licensing fees.
Remind me why we still have this fucked up system?
This seems pointless because you could still just encourage people to do it manually, in another part of the purchase flow, or maybe even a week or two after? It seems to me that the patent just blocks you from having an official Facebook share button or Tweet (or something like that) button on the checkout summary page.
One thing these characters could patent is a system and method of auto renewing and parking a domain they host if their site is used to check on it as it approaches expiry. I give GoDaddy a wide berth.
There are pretty well established guidelines for determining the "obviousness" of a patent, and one of these (as you mention) is determining whether the patent would be obvious to one with an ordinary level of skill in the relevant art.
The average software developer can't code fizzbuzz. Therefore anything more sophisticated than fizzbuzz is potentially patentable.
Think about that. Really let it sink in.
I have come to believe that the problem isn't with software patents, the problem is with us. Most software developers really are that bad. It is easy to forget this, but the people who hang out on Hacker News are really a slim minority.
We need to get our own house in order and demand more of the people who practice this art. Other industries have professional certification or restrictive guild systems - maybe we need to adopt the same.
Going after marketers, however, will be their undoing.
You all owe me £1m each ... (I also patented talking about it).
times infinity...
Edit: Or Slashdot.
Be aware of the following 60-day restriction when planning the transfer from GoDaddy: http://support.godaddy.com/help/article/3560/transferring-do...
oBDisclaimer: I participated in the development of the original and amended ICANN transfer policy. I understand that there has been a subsequent amendment and I'm just not interested enough anymore to find out what it includes. You may in fact actually be correct in that ICANN now permits this, although I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case :-)
But askpatents.com looks to me like it has some potential to work, and if it did, it might solve at least most of the really heinous examples. I'd say that at least merits making the possibility of reform an open question.
Forcing a massive shift in IP rights (that may not benefit large, entrenched interest) through Congress is an enormous undertaking that may not succeed. Reform may be a more practical option.
"Social networking websites may comprise internet-based social networking services that focus on building and verifying online social networks for communities of people who may share interests and activities, wish to communicate with each other efficiently, and may be interested in exploring the interests and activities of others, and which necessitates the use of software applications".
In addition to Twitter, Myspace, LinkedIn and Facebook they also list YouTube and Flickr as specific examples. This thing is pretty far reaching.
They should have gone for a wider range of things.
Hang on? Isn't everyone already doing this for just about every other online venture? Someone registered via Facebook -> Post to wall. Hmmm. Maybe I should copy and paste their patent application and switch out "domain name registration" for any other service name.
I think it is silly for 2 reason's. Firstly this is not an innovation in any shape or form. People have been doing this for years with everything. It shouldn't have been approved. Secondly, GoDaddy have spent time and money gaining a patent which they can't enforce. Seems silly. I feel they just wanted to add "using patented technology" in their advertising.
Is that not the case?
And after reading articles like these - http://www.law.com/corporatecounsel/PubArticleCC.jsp?id=1202... - makes one feel the legal system is aware how outdated and broken it is.
http://portal.uspto.gov/external/portal/pair
Look under the heading "file wrapper" for all the communication. In particular, read:
The initial rejection (CTNF) is followed by applicant rebuttal (REM), several prior-art searchs (NPL) and then the acceptance (NOA, first document with 6 pages).I'm not bored enough to read the whole thing, but the claims seem to have been some constrained on very technical points.
Please note: this patent is completely bogus, and I am not defending it. I am pointing this out because I think it is critically important for people to understand how the process works. Otherwise all this hand-wringing is for naught (and those who don't learn from history, etc...)
A suggestion for an enterprising web designer who happens to also be a bored 2L: make a website to semi-automate collation of prior art challenges. Court is not the only way to challege a patent. Patents can be challenged by 3rd parties through an "ex-parte re-examination request". One of the big limitations to this is the cost of the legal process and prior-art search/summation. I'm dreaming of a website that would allow crowd-sourcing to get 95% of the way to a ready-to-file submission, which could then be vetted and finalized by pro-bono lawyers, students in legal clinic, etc.
http://patents.stackexchange.com/
(This is the same as askpatents.com)
http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/535/prior-art-for...
I haven't yet heard what, if any, formal relationship AskPatents.com will have to the examination process going forward. However, at least for an already-issued patent a re-exam would be required.
Absent some statutory changes, it's hard to see how it will impact the prescribed, formal steps of the patent review process. Patent filings are a lot more complicated [edit: as compared to existing legal forms websites], but I can imagine a template interface that would allow crowd-sourcing before a final review to cross the Ts and dot the Is.
It would be phenomenal if the PTO streamlined the process themselves. Baby steps...
http://meta.patents.stackexchange.com/questions/105/i-want-t...
This is really neat!
Its like trolling backwards.
This was the last kick in the pants I needed to get off of GoDaddy.