I do wonder if this will meaningfully move the needle on agent assistants (coding, marketing, schedule my vacation, etc...) considering how much more compute (I would imagine) is needed for video / immersive environments during training and inference
I suspect the calculus is more favorable for robotics
Far too much marketing speech, far too little math or theory, and completely misses the mark on the 'next frontier'. Maybe four years ago, spatial reasoning was the problem to solve, but by 2022 it was solved. All that remained was scaling up. The actual three next problems to solve (in order of when they will be solved) are:
From reading that, I'm not quite sure if they have anything figured out.
I actually agree, but her notes are mostly fluff with no real info in there and I do wonder if they have anything figured out besides "collect spatial data" like imagenet.
There are actually a lot of people trying to figure out spatial intelligence, but those groups are usually in neuroscience or computational neuroscience.
Here is a summary paper I wrote discussing how the entorhinal cortex, grid cells, and coordinate transformation may be the key: https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.12068 All animals are able to transform coordinates in real time to navigate their world and humans have the most coordinate representations of any known living animal. I believe human level intelligence is knowing when and how to transform these coordinate systems to extract useful information.
I wrote this before the huge LLM explosion and I still personally believe it is the path forward.
No you just don't understand, don't you see! the ancient greeks foresaw this centuries ago, we are just on the cusp of a world changing moment can't you feel the buzzwords flow through you! First it's creating 7 second meme videos w/ too many arms, then it's right to curing cancer and solving physics! Let the power of buzzwords calm your fears of a bubble.
Personally, I think the direction AI will go towards is having an AI brain with something like a LLM at its core augmented with various abilities like spatial intelligence, rather than models being designed with spatial reasoning at its core. Human language and reasoning seems flexible enough to form some kind of spatial understanding, but I'm not so sure about the converse of having spatial intelligence derive human reasoning. Similar to how image generation models have struggled with generating the right number of fingers on hands, I would expect a world model designed to model physical space to not generalize the understanding of simple human ideas.
I'd imagine Tesla's and Waymo's AI are at the forefront of spatial cognition... this is what has made me hesitant to dismiss the AI hype as a bubble. Once spatial cognition is solved to the extent that language has been solved, a range of applications currently unavailable will drive a tidal wave of compute demand. Beyond self driving, think fully autonomous drone swarms... Militaries around the world certainly are and they're salivating.
This is essentially a simulation system for operating on narrowly constrained virtual worlds. It is pretty well-understood that these don't translate to learning non-trivial dynamics in the physical world, which is where most of the interesting applications are.
While virtual world systems and physical world systems look similar based on description, a bit like chemistry and chemical engineering, they are largely unrelated problems with limited theory overlap. A virtual world model is essentially a special trivial case that becomes tractable because it defines away most of the hard computer science problems in physical world models.
A good argument could be made that spatial intelligence is a critical frontier for AI, many open problems are reducible to this. I don't see any evidence that this company is positioned to make material progress on it.
Also good context here is Friston’s Free Energy Principle: A unified theory suggesting that all living systems, from simple organisms to the brain, must minimize "surprise" to maintain their form and survive. To do this, systems act to minimize a mathematical quantity called variational free energy, which is an upper bound on surprise. This involves constantly making predictions about the world, updating internal models based on sensory data, and taking actions that reduce the difference between predictions and reality, effectively minimizing prediction errors.
Key distinction: Constant and continuous updating. I.e. feedback loops with observation, prediction, action (agency), and once more, observation.
It should have survival and preservation as a fundamental architectural feature.
I enjoy Fei-fei li's communication style. It's straight and to the point in a way that I find very easy to parse. She's one of my primary idols in the AI space these days.
I think I perceive a massive bottleneck. Today's incarnation of AI learns from the web, not from the interaction with the humans it talks to. And for sure there is a lot of value there, it is just pointless to see that interaction lost a few hundred or thousand words of context later. For humans their 'context' is their life and total memory capacity, that's why we learn from the interaction with other, more experienced humans. It is always a two way street. But with AI as it is, it is a one way street, one that means that your interaction and your endless corrections when it gets stuff wrong (again) is lost. Allowing for a personalized massive context would go a long way towards improving the value here, at least like that you - hopefully - only have to make the same correction once.
Genie 3 (at a prototype level) achieves the goal she describes: a controllable world model with consistency and realistic physics. Its sibling Veo 3 even demonstrates some [spatial problem-solving ability](https://video-zero-shot.github.io/). Genie and Veo are definitely closer to her vision than anything World Labs has released publicly.
However, she does not mention Google's models at all. This omission makes the blog feel very much like an ad for her company rather than a good-faith guide for the field.
Just had a fantastic experience applying agentic coding to CAD. I needed to add some threads to a few blanks in a 3d print. I used computational geometry to give the agent a way to "feel" around the model. I had it convolve a sphere of the radius of the connector across the entire model. It was able to use this technique to find the precise positions of the existing ports and then add threads to them. It took a few tries to get right, but if I had the technique in mind before it would be very quick. The lesson for me is that the models need to have a way to feel. In the end, the implementation of the 3d model had to be written in code, where it's auditable. Perhaps if the agent were able to see images directly and perfectly, I never would have made this discovery.
Isn’t this what all the ai companies are doing now? This is what is needed to enable robotics with llms and deep mind and others are all actively working on it afaik
My take, after working on some algos to detect geometry from pointclouds, is that its solvable with current ML techniques, but we lack early stage VC funding for startups working on this :
I would argue that some would add time to that as well, a lot of our data are missing spatial and temporal information. But if we're able to take text2text models and add in audio/vision then I suspect we can apply the same technique to add in spatial and temporal intelligence. However the data for those are non existent unlike audio and visual data.
I think a lot of people are really bad at evaluating world models. Feifei is right here that they are multimodal but really they must codify a physics. I don't mean "physics" but "a physics". I also think it's naïve to think this can be done through data alone. I mean just ask a physicist...[0].
But why people are really bad at evaluating them is because the details dominate. What matters here is consistency. We need invariance to some things and equivariance to others. As evaluators we tend to be hopeful so the subtle changes frame to frame are overlooked though thats kinda the most important part. It can't just be similar to the last frame, but needs be exactly the same. You need equivariance to translation, yet that's still not happening in any of these models (and it's not a limitation of attention or transformers). You're just going to have a really hard time getting all this data even though by doing that you'll look like you're progressing because you're better fitting it. But in the end the models will need to create some compact formulation representing concepts such as motion. Or in other words, a physics. And it's not like physicists aren't know for being detail oriented and nitpicky over nuances. That is breed into then with good reason
I think spatial tokens could help, but they're not really necessary. Lots of physics/physical tasks can be solved with pencil and paper.
On the other hand, it's amazing that a 512x512 image can be represented by 85 tokens (as in OAI's API), or 263 tokens per second for video (with Gemini). It's as if the memory vs compute tradeoff has morphed into a memory vs embedding question.
This dichotomy reminds me of the "Apple Rotators - can you rotate the Apple in your head" question. The spatial embeddings will likely solve dynamics questions a lot more intuitively (ie, without extended thinking).
We're also working on this space at FlyShirley - training pilots to fly then training Shirley to fly - where we benefit from established simulation tools. Looking forward to trying Fei Fei's models!
we've discovered some kind of differentiable computer[1] and as with all computers, people have their own interests and hobbies they use them for. but unlike computers, everyone pitches their interest or hobby as being the only one that matters.
42 comments
[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 51.9 ms ] threadI suspect the calculus is more favorable for robotics
- Reinforcement Learning (2026)
- General Intelligence (2027)
- Continual Learning (2028)
EDIT: lol, funny how the idiots downvote
LeCun: Energy Based Self-Supervised Learning
Chollet: Program Synthesis
Fei-Fei: ???
Are there any others with hot takes on the future architectures and techniques needed for of A-not-quite-G-I?
There are actually a lot of people trying to figure out spatial intelligence, but those groups are usually in neuroscience or computational neuroscience. Here is a summary paper I wrote discussing how the entorhinal cortex, grid cells, and coordinate transformation may be the key: https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.12068 All animals are able to transform coordinates in real time to navigate their world and humans have the most coordinate representations of any known living animal. I believe human level intelligence is knowing when and how to transform these coordinate systems to extract useful information. I wrote this before the huge LLM explosion and I still personally believe it is the path forward.
While virtual world systems and physical world systems look similar based on description, a bit like chemistry and chemical engineering, they are largely unrelated problems with limited theory overlap. A virtual world model is essentially a special trivial case that becomes tractable because it defines away most of the hard computer science problems in physical world models.
A good argument could be made that spatial intelligence is a critical frontier for AI, many open problems are reducible to this. I don't see any evidence that this company is positioned to make material progress on it.
Key distinction: Constant and continuous updating. I.e. feedback loops with observation, prediction, action (agency), and once more, observation.
It should have survival and preservation as a fundamental architectural feature.
However, she does not mention Google's models at all. This omission makes the blog feel very much like an ad for her company rather than a good-faith guide for the field.
https://quantblog.wordpress.com/2025/10/29/digital-twins-the...
I have no doubt FeiFei and her well funded team will make rapid progress.
But why people are really bad at evaluating them is because the details dominate. What matters here is consistency. We need invariance to some things and equivariance to others. As evaluators we tend to be hopeful so the subtle changes frame to frame are overlooked though thats kinda the most important part. It can't just be similar to the last frame, but needs be exactly the same. You need equivariance to translation, yet that's still not happening in any of these models (and it's not a limitation of attention or transformers). You're just going to have a really hard time getting all this data even though by doing that you'll look like you're progressing because you're better fitting it. But in the end the models will need to create some compact formulation representing concepts such as motion. Or in other words, a physics. And it's not like physicists aren't know for being detail oriented and nitpicky over nuances. That is breed into then with good reason
[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hV41QEKiMlM
On the other hand, it's amazing that a 512x512 image can be represented by 85 tokens (as in OAI's API), or 263 tokens per second for video (with Gemini). It's as if the memory vs compute tradeoff has morphed into a memory vs embedding question.
This dichotomy reminds me of the "Apple Rotators - can you rotate the Apple in your head" question. The spatial embeddings will likely solve dynamics questions a lot more intuitively (ie, without extended thinking).
We're also working on this space at FlyShirley - training pilots to fly then training Shirley to fly - where we benefit from established simulation tools. Looking forward to trying Fei Fei's models!
[1] https://x.com/karpathy/status/1582807367988654081