>I'm not a big sucker for this kind of un-nuanced "us vs them" rhetoric
Everyone usually has this
stance by default until they think some batshit crazy redlines have been crossed regardless of what end of the political spectrum they reside in and decide to adopt an "us vs them, hope for peace, prepare for war" approach.
I'm sure you have some "if they actually do <xyz> then I'll adopt a more alarmed stance" line in the sand, it's just drawn at a different point probably. That's why it's best to talk specifics of the case instead of declaring an abstract high-road stance.
The uncomfortable reality is that there does exist an 'us vs them' situation in every other aspect of society today, and those who ignore it end up on the losing side.
I would assume by default that billionaires are politically active and causing a problem. However this link doesn't give a lot of hints about how or wherefore. I assume this is a jab at Thiel; but it is a bit light on in the synopsis department.
There are a huge number of threats to democracy and the biggest one is probably the total lack of principles and common sense possessed by the median voter. It is a real problem and a bigger one than some billionaire or even the consensus of the billionaires. Sometimes voters and capital come into actual conflict and generally the voters tend to win Pyrrhic victories when that happens.
I know it's fashionable to say that democracy itself leads to these outcomes that destroy democracy. I think Arendt was right about self-colonization and overproduction of elites being the main thing that leads to totalitarianism. There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years. Power corrupts, but that's distinct from an argument that the systems which created it in this case should be replaced by systems that funnel power in other ways.
> There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years.
I don’t know that I would position the USA in this way.
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This is far more similar to Communism than Fascism. Their mentality is that they are a scientific vanguard (like Marxism) and that the ends justify the means. They also share the binary thinking of Marxists. They part company with Fascism because most of them are internationalist.
Problem is not with nerds or Silicon Valley, even if Thiel is a lunatic.
Problem are, and always were, obscenely wealthy people destroying the society that created them. In the world where greed is not considered sin anymore, or even a character flaw, they don't even need to pretend anymore.
Crazy to live in a time less moral than the robber baron age. That said, our society made a joke of children making our shoes in miserable conditions, so we have been conditioning ourselves to be ok with this on our own and for a long time.
I would not call these people "nerds", many are entitled bros (gals?) with rather rich parents. If you look at many of their family history, their parents are well into the upper middle class, borderline rich. In most cases, they went to the best schools.
It just so happens, tech is were the real money is now. If this was 40+ years ago, they would have ended up on Wall Street or Madison Avenue.
This exact thought is the human death drive externalized and is responsible for a lot of human misery in the world. Shame on those who unironically believe it.
The excesses of the Weimar Republic did not justify the subsequent events. Not even close.
My cousin suddenly has been very captured and obsessed by an area of opinion I didn’t have a name for, fixed money supply, all inflation inherently bad, Elon Musk is badly treated, longer government terms (which sounds reasonable initially until you actually think about just having LESS democracy), no minimum wage. After some research it’s definitely coming from influencers linked to the SV techno feudalists - it’s just such a strong change. But you realise real power is only useful if people can come along with you - if you can build support with the public…
I'm no historian, but has there ever been a society in world history that wasn't dominated by a 'privileged few'?
Weren't the 'rules' of the United States of America written by wealthy white males who excluded women, non-whites, and the non-wealthy (eg non-land owning) from participating in the new nation?
As much as the worldwide turn to fascism worries me, I don't see the lives of most people in the world changing very drastically from any other time in history. Maybe the openness by which the privileged exercise their power is a bit higher on the historical scale, but the lives of the non-privileged, world wide, really don't change much over history. Sure, the invention of fire, electricity, etc benefitted all of mankind, but the distinctions of 'how life is lived' between the privileged and the non-privileged has always been dramatic.
Unfettered capitalism is great under certain conditions. Amazing things get invented & rolled out to the world.
When conditions change, cracks appear..
For many reasons we appear to be in an era of slower growth, but shareholders used to growth are still demanding it. That’s sticking business leaders in a really tough place.
The incentives need to change - whether through legislation, or market demands. Until then it’ll be less leg room on flights, more “offers” when you just opened your banking app to pay a bill, and more sanctioned spam in your inbox.
I truly believe plenty of folks are fed up and a backlash is coming that’ll be a mix of legislation and companies emerging that cater to informed customers. I’m optimistic!
In less than a page, they call it feudalism, fascism, and capital(ism) / corporate rule. Mussolini in his manifesto explicitly defined the 2nd in opposition to the 3rd among other things, and even Marx considered the 1st and the 3rd to be very distinct. Of course the 1st and the 2nd are also quite different.
So which one is it? Oh wait, it's a modern progressive, "calling everything I don't like every bad name I remember from high school history"! Are they also nativist globalists and authoritarian libertarians? I bet they are!
What's the actual factual accusation here? That monied interests converge on the ruling power? How is this different when the 'opposition' is in control?
As conditions for the middle class continue to deteriorate, isn't it normal that companies that depend on middle class purchasing power try to adjust government buttons and levers to assure their continuation and position in the market?
The 'holier than thou' is showing.
43 comments
[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 63.2 ms ] threadEveryone usually has this stance by default until they think some batshit crazy redlines have been crossed regardless of what end of the political spectrum they reside in and decide to adopt an "us vs them, hope for peace, prepare for war" approach.
I'm sure you have some "if they actually do <xyz> then I'll adopt a more alarmed stance" line in the sand, it's just drawn at a different point probably. That's why it's best to talk specifics of the case instead of declaring an abstract high-road stance.
Not sure "code" belongs here. Even less sure about "illusion".
Take those away and what is left is "dismantled... by capital". Nothing new, really.
One day you're chasing terrorism, the next you're chasing ecologists, political opponents, unions, minorities, &c.
There are a huge number of threats to democracy and the biggest one is probably the total lack of principles and common sense possessed by the median voter. It is a real problem and a bigger one than some billionaire or even the consensus of the billionaires. Sometimes voters and capital come into actual conflict and generally the voters tend to win Pyrrhic victories when that happens.
Silicon valley just happened to reside next to the hippies in the first decades
I don’t know that I would position the USA in this way.
Different metrics lead to different “winners”:
Longevity: Imperial China
Institutional legacy: Rome
Global reach: British Empire
Scientific/cultural transmission: Islamic Caliphates
Modern dominance: United States
Another lens:
* Rome & China = stability, governance, internal cohesion.
* Britain & the US = networks, capital markets, technology leverage.
* Caliphates = knowledge platforms, cosmopolitan integration.
This book appears to be available only for preorder now, not yet published. Nobody here has read it, nobody here can read it, and even if they could, this submission will disappear off the front pages before commenters have a chance to order and read the book. Thus the comments section here is going to be useless (or at least more useless than usual).
Lord William Rees-Mogg being the father of Jacob Rees-Mogg, of Brexit fame.
Interesting how often you meet the same people if you just start digging a little.
It just so happens, tech is were the real money is now. If this was 40+ years ago, they would have ended up on Wall Street or Madison Avenue.
A lot seems about Curtis Yarvin and fans thereof.
What's the endgame of a movement that seeks to discredit, overturn, and functionally control elections?
The excesses of the Weimar Republic did not justify the subsequent events. Not even close.
Weren't the 'rules' of the United States of America written by wealthy white males who excluded women, non-whites, and the non-wealthy (eg non-land owning) from participating in the new nation?
As much as the worldwide turn to fascism worries me, I don't see the lives of most people in the world changing very drastically from any other time in history. Maybe the openness by which the privileged exercise their power is a bit higher on the historical scale, but the lives of the non-privileged, world wide, really don't change much over history. Sure, the invention of fire, electricity, etc benefitted all of mankind, but the distinctions of 'how life is lived' between the privileged and the non-privileged has always been dramatic.
When conditions change, cracks appear..
For many reasons we appear to be in an era of slower growth, but shareholders used to growth are still demanding it. That’s sticking business leaders in a really tough place.
The incentives need to change - whether through legislation, or market demands. Until then it’ll be less leg room on flights, more “offers” when you just opened your banking app to pay a bill, and more sanctioned spam in your inbox.
I truly believe plenty of folks are fed up and a backlash is coming that’ll be a mix of legislation and companies emerging that cater to informed customers. I’m optimistic!
So which one is it? Oh wait, it's a modern progressive, "calling everything I don't like every bad name I remember from high school history"! Are they also nativist globalists and authoritarian libertarians? I bet they are!