67 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 87.7 ms ] thread
'Ÿnsect focused on producing insect protein for animal feed and pet food'

Surely nothing could go wrong feeding herbivorous animals a diet of insect protein...

Especially when you could have just fed them the grain directly:

…factory-scale insect production typically ends up relying on cereal by-products that are already usable as animal feed — meaning insect protein just adds an expensive extra step. For animal feed, the math simply wasn’t working.

I mean most pets are carnivores or omnivores, it sounds to me like they just scaled up before they had really found product-market fit
From the article looks like fish feed.
We have food waste -> black soldier fly larva -> chicken and fish feed companies, a financially sustainable ecosystem of companies globally.
Not all agricultural animals are herbivores. Pigs and chickens are both omnivores. Also insects are probably good feed for some species of farmed fish.
The quote you make doesn't mention herbivores.

Cat food contains insect protein, and cats are carnivores. They even catch and eat insects themselves.

In contrast, cats are being fed grains which they wouldn't naturally eat.

Moreover, insects are a cheap source of animal protein.

They are currently fed fish protein. I fail to see a difference.
[flagged]
Not the heckin doggos :((
Why would that be? Killing and having them eat chicken and lamb is morally superior how?
…because most dogs just will eat bugs on their own, no outside influence necessary? I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
if u saw what goes into commercial animal feed u might feel different about trying to figure out better ways to do it...
Because the natural order of things is wild shih tzus hunting down cows?
>The fact that Ÿnsect failed doesn’t mean the entire insect farming sector is doomed. Competitor Innovafeed is reportedly holding up better, in part because it started with a smaller production site and is ramping up incrementally.

>For Prof. Haslam, Ÿnsect exemplifies a broader European problem. “Ÿnsect is a case study in Europe’s scaling gap. We fund moonshots. We underfund factories. We celebrate pilots. We abandon industrialization. See Northvolt [a struggling Swedish battery maker], Volocopter [a German air taxi startup], and Lilium [a failed German flying taxi company],” he said.

No monorail on the list?

How about funding some housing for the people? Why is it that every city had new huge neighbourhoods built en-masse until the 1990s, and then suddenly stopped (with a few tiny exceptions)?

But hey, flying taxis, right?

It’s moronic to have the government pick winners. Only private investors with actual skin in the game will pick those with true potential. This error happens again and again and again
For the moment ynsect was launched in France it was obvious that it was doomed to fail. Like often here, the only real goal was to suck public funding.

Normally, you would start a small business/factory and scale with your business. Especially growing insect doesn't require a "mega factory".

But here, from the onset, they started from scratch and announced a mega investment to build a giant factory. Obviously getting hundreds of millions or even a billion, most from public funding as we could guess.

about Innovafeed, their core business is creating animal feed like Ÿnsect, however with two key differences:

- the bugs feed on crop waste instead of the animal waste of the target animals [1]

- they are also investing in vertical farming alongside the core business

still not profitable as of writing the linked article, however.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45104757

Ynsect-crushing reality - nobody really wants to eat bugs
(comment deleted)
(comment deleted)
> bankrupt despite raising over $600 million, including from Downey Jr.’s FootPrint Coalition, taxpayers, and many others.

How on earth did French taxpayers get roped into funding a moonshot startup whose entire goal was to make pet food out of insects..

Because pet food is a large contributor to greenhouse gas emissions?
French taxpayers need to revolt, and soon. Their situation is extremely bad
In Europe ist mostly crony capitalism.

Well connected people using government funds to finance their businesses.

Figures are all over the place, but the figures around public funding are around 50 millions (Euros) total, including EU, national and local.

They were clearly surfing on pure hype: green, local...

You should look at the percentage of fish that comes from aquaculture and where the food that they are fed comes from.
There's an rule in the EU that says you can't feed the insects pork and then let those insects go on to be fed to pigs (same for beef and chicken). This is intended to prevent the transmission of diseases like Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies (like "mad cow disease"). As I understand it, this rule isn't because we have shown it's dangerous to do the pig -> insect -> pig chain but rather because we haven't shown that it's safe. Arnold van Huis and his team at Wageningen University are putting quite some energy researching the safety and lobbying the EU to change the rules based on the findings. At one of the talks those folks they said it's basically a black box of trying to get what kind of science the regulators will consider acceptable.

As you might guess, making sure the food waste you feed the insects doesn't have _any_ animal proteins in it is quite logistically challenging and so afaik nobody is doing that at a large scale.

I did quite a bit of research into the history of insects in the food system, especially in the Netherlands. While I was rooting for Ynsect and other big players to figure something good out I believe that it's a problem much better suited to a smaller scale (perhaps on the city level). Basically, have the food waste from various stores brought to a facility to be fed to insects and then let those insects be turned into whatever (pet food, fish food, trendy protein bars).

Is pig > insect > cow (and reverse) any safer or have same concerns?
> food waste from various stores brought to a facility to be fed to insects

a. how does that solve the transmission problem?

b. amazing work by EU bureaucrats to regulate businesses that dont exist yet

c. they can export the feed to fish farms or china or whatever. the question is do the economics work. US soy bean is just incredibly productive (and subsidized)

> As I understand it, this rule isn't because we have shown it's dangerous to do the pig -> insect -> pig chain but rather because we haven't shown that it's safe.

We banned all kinds of such "forced cannibalism" after BSE, yes. And for good reason, I think - not just is it highly unethical IMHO, but because even a minuscule risk of a repeat of the BSE crisis of the late 90s/early 00s just isn't worth it. The destruction that BSE brought upon the European agriculture industry, the public outrage - I doubt non-Europeans could even understand the impact it had.

I had heard about that rule. But thought I had heard it had been overruled in the last 5-10 years. Maybe only for fishing feeding cycles?
Given that the incubation can be in the decades caution is well deserved.
Im not allowed to donate blood in N. America because I once lived in the EU for a few years.

Why?

Because feeding cows cows wasn't proved unsafe and therefore allowed in the food chain. Then people started dying. Oopsie.

But it's OK. It better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Though, BSE was massively overhyped by the same epidemiologists who got COVID wrong. They said it could be a huge disaster that killed millions and in the end only fewer than two hundred people died of cjv over a period of decades. Although that's bad it's very far from being a good justification for banning everything pre-emptively.
Scrapie (a sheep and goat prion) contaminates soil where sheep graze (and shit) and can persist for years in the soil.
Oh my god eat some beans. Eat some tofu, eat some black-eyed peas, eat some green peas, eat some lentils, eat some northern beans, eat some lima beans, eat some chickpeas
This is one of the posts on HN where I first read the dead comments. And they did not disappoint.
> But don’t be too quick to attribute its failure to the “ick” factor that many > Westerners feel about bugs.

I think this is a weird wording. I dont think you need to limit the ick factor to "Westerners" There are an awful lot of people out there who would feel the "ick" factor.

And even for some of those who do eat insects, they are specific insects, form specific places, prepared in traditional ways.

Not a powder of insects

> I think this is a weird wording. I dont think you need to limit the ick factor to "Westerners" There are an awful lot of people out there who would feel the "ick" factor.

Of course, this has nothing to do with “Westerners.” No one in their right mind would want farm animals to be fed insect powder. The fact that the company was allowed to operate and to receive massive funding is the real issue here.

I'm letting my mind wander and thinking what a French insect wrangler looks like. I'm kind of imagining a mix between French style, a cowboy hat, and lab gear.
Or maybe a guy with a large incredibly smelly cheese who is trailed by a huge cloud of flies.
This is like Juicero. It doesn't need a startup, investors or "tech". They already do this all over the world, and not just for animal feed...

It's not that it's not a good idea, it's already there. It's that it's not a VC idea.

And it seems the market prooved my point

Given that EU tech salaries are a lot more tame, it would be interesting to see how 600m were even used. Hopefully there’s some good R&D there and not some French alps retreats and Porches for founders
That's very good news. I hope all companies of this kind meet the same fate.
Animals served us well when human's life expectancy was 30yo

Centenarians i know are all on a plant based diet

Insects? why bother

"Ÿnsect’s revenue from its main entity peaked at €17.8 million in 2021 (approximately $21 million) — a figure reportedly inflated by internal transfers between subsidiaries. "

if you raise that much money and go under, its usually just fraud.

Similar like grass fed beef and dairy is a sign of quality and "naturality". I look forward to the day when insect fed chicken becomes a sign of quality. Because insects are part of a natural diet for chickens.
“Make something people want” was supposed to be the motto.
> Ÿnsect, a French insect farming startup, has been been placed into liquidation

Yum, liquidised insects

Meanwhile the "other" French insect farming startup seems to be doing fine (Innovafeed)