I sit alone in cafes all the time, for many reasons. I don’t feel particularly joyful about it nor weird. I just do it to take a break and have something to drink, or wait for someone or something. Often I don’t look at my phone at all. That doesn’t feel weird either, or rebellious, or whatever the author experiences.
I don’t understand the post at all.
I’d have gone to Japan. I’ve been to Japan, it’s awesome.
Part of the magic of being human is the interplay between our external world and internal states.
Two people can go to the exact same venue, do the exact same things, and have radically different experiences because of how our different internal worlds collide with that same external world.
And a further part of the magic of being human is that we're then able to share those experiences with each other. I wouldn't want to diminish someone else's experience of a place simply because I didn't have that same experience.
This reminds me of the “techbro discovers very common x thing” meme. Going to a coffee shop (that is 75% solo remote workers) without your phone and pretending it’s some divine experience feels conceited. Do things you like, sometimes don’t check your phone.
It seems a bit absurd to call someone a tech bro for experiencing something for the first time and writing about it - especially something as benign as going to a cafe.
It was very reminiscent of a LinkedIn screenshot I saw of a someone saying “I’ve been thinking a lot about irl podcasts. Just sitting down with a group of peers, no recording, etc” and someone replying “techbro rediscovers hanging out with friends”
Japan is not the ideal place I would go to for a cafe, but I get the sentiment. When the weather is nice I love going for a morning walk with my dog on a lazy weekend morning and just sitting outside at a cafe reading a book. Coffee itself is secondary to this experience, it’s mostly just the vibe of the place that brings me there. That’s why small local cafes that don’t like people to sit at tables for too long are so off putting.
I disagree. Japan is the ideal place. Kissaten are a cultural treasure. Craig Mod has written at length about them and why they are so precious. I go to cafes strictly for the vibe, and I have fond memories of Japanese cafes.
Never tried that in my Japan trips as life is too rushed. But have seen old Japanese cafe in Singapore where jap patrons sit for hours reading manga sipping coffee. I'm sure the culture is there in Japan too..
I didn’t quite understand why sitting alone in a café makes you a weirdo (is it an American thing?), but the piece was very well written. We all should learn how to be without electronics for every now and then, accompanied only our thoughts. It is good for the soul.
I think the important part is leaving your phone and other devices home. Be alone, without even a possibility of connecting (apart from the old-fashione way of talking to an actual human being). People used to do this y’know? Back then.
No, it's a thing everywhere to be honest. People are their with their friends and you are the only one alone.
Without phone it would be too cringe, even with phone its cringe. I behave as if though I'm texting someone. It's the societal weight of being the one who is alone.
I enjoyed the post as a whole, there’s joy in someone discovering and sharing pleasure in something you enjoy that’s new to them.
But yeah, I found the whole intro section a bit confusing because it’s just extremely common to find people enjoying an hour alone at a café here and certainly not “against the reasons cafès exist”.
>It’s contradictory to sit alone in a café. It’s against the reason cafés exist.
I had the same feeling as you. Why is it weird to do something alone ? - and like you I thought this must be an American thing. Mostly, because stuff like "eating out alone" or "going to the movies alone" was describe as weird by American authors before.
Sure, it's close to impossible to not "auto-socialize", when you are alone. It's one of the reason I like to do things alone. Either being a regular to the cafe/restaurant host or you get into contact with other people,
I did not know going to a cafe alone was a strange thing to do. In fact it is a place I would consider it is completely common to go alone - whereas a restaurant is less common.
When Coffee People was just one shop in Portland, went there every day before work. (B4 internet or phones.) Loved the shop, but they played pretty aggressive rock. Not adverse to it, but first thing in the morning... Anyway was a regular. They played music via a CD player. I noticed they often silently mouthed the lyrics to the background music. Talked them into including a CD I gave them: Cecilia Bartoli "Heroines" (Rosinni). Over time it made it into the regular rotation. I noticed after a while the staff would also silently mouth the "words" being sung. Good times. Long ago.
Exposure therapy is the cure for anxiety. I have a personal hunch that part of the massive rise in anxiety in the world is explained by many of us no longer being regularly forced outside of our comfort zones. Before the Internet and smartphones, we were obligated to go into the unknown much more often. It was a constant mandatory exposure therapy.
Today, I can't remember the last time I walked into a restaurant without already having seen the inside on Google Maps, read several reviews on Yelp, and perused the menu online.
And multiply by dinner eating. Which I have done solo many hundreds of times between business and other travel. Not something I think twice about. In fact, at conferences, I've sometimes been peopled-out by the end of the day and actively avoided going out of my way to setup group dinners unless they came together organically.
I recently completed a long road trip and realized partway through. I spent the first few days listening to an audiobook every time I got into the car. But one day, during a particularly long drive, I finished it. And I didn't put anything else on. A few hours later, I realized I'd spent those hours lost in my own thoughts in a way that just never occurs anymore.
A decade ago I was working a boring job paying the bills in a small company. I honestly felt that despite being financially safe I was wasting my life. I didn't believe in the company mission and I wasn't gaining new skills. I was bored out.
I went to a cafe every morning for 30min BEFORE my actual job. I did whatever I wanted, meaning reading, writing, jolting down ideas, being productive or not, but the point was it was MY time to think.
This is so basic. I went with a notebook, a pencil, paid 2€ every morning for a basic black coffee... but what was special was having a dedicated time and place regularly to just inch at it, whatever "it" might be for me.
Well, fast forward ~10 years and I'm HYPED. I'm so excited pretty much every morning that I can't help for the next day to work on more interesting projects.
I love sitting alone in Wetherspoons, and working, it's actually perfect because:
- None of my colleagues, and nobody in any of my social circles, would ever be seen dead there
- You meet the best people, everyones really nice
- Nobody judges anybody, we're all just there go get a bit pissed, lots of people socialising, some people are there doing a crossword, I'm just a guy sitting on my laptop coding, nobody cares
- I can focus better with lots of background noise
Can recommend the Mediterranean side salad and a bowl of roasted veg off the side menu if you are hungry.
In the centre of the city there are three spoons. One for the people with tattoos on their knuckles (near the magistrates' court oddly - I used to pick up gossip in the barbers round the corner but he has been bought out so the building can be converted in to 'luxury apartments'), one for the old geezers with leather jackets and a third very large one opposite a conference centre. This latter one very well managed and always a seat. All kinds of people but never rammed.
Too many negative comments here. This is just someone discovering something new and sharing it very excitedly.
Almost 6-7 years ago, I read about a 30min challenge to sit upright without doing anything in a chair challenge. That changed how I think about distractions. If I had written about it, there surely will be people who would just like here say... What is so crazy about it? I do that all the time...
To me, this post is someone's joy and curiosity shared through a well written piece. Everybody discover certain things at different stages of their lives. What's so bad about that?
Was able to bring a smile on my face. A good post. :)
When you sit in a café, even when you do nothing as the author said, you are still not alone because you are visually (looking at her, for example) and audibly (listening to them, for example) active. Like in any other public space, you are passively interacting with others, hence you are not "sitting alone".
> Too many negative comments here. This is just someone discovering something new and sharing it very excitedly.
Some of the negativity is because many people out there were used to this slower way of living only for capitalist techbros to optimize every waking moment everything and hasten the rat race.
So now the only people who can sit idly at a cafe would be those who've already have a few million in the bank. It's similar to the CEO goes to a yoga retreat in Bali (or Burning Man) trope to rediscover being part of society.
I've done some sitting still and doing nothing. It's a deep subject. There's like a thousand things going on right now and you're reacting to all of them. And that reaction is reality.
A cafe near me specializes in pu-erh tea, and has a strict 'no electronic devices' policy. Very conducive to that sort of sitting challenge, or meditative practices in general.
When feeling too busy, I always make time to go to a sit at my local Vipassana center, spending an hour sitting actually frees up so much more time in my life that it's well worth it. Gandhi definitely had it right when he said "I have so much to accomplish today that I must meditate for two hours instead of one"
Stillness isn't only enjoyable (for some), it's incredibly valuable. Stoicism and Buddhism both talk a lot about it and they're not the only ones. I make a point of sitting comfortably and doing nothing with no stimuli for 5-10 minutes every morning.
Inevitably when you're still with no distractions, your subconscious starts surfacing various thoughts. There is a random element to what pops into your head, but there will also be patterns. Just sitting there and observing, and maybe asking yourself a few questions about what emerges, is an incredible way to become aware of your emotional state, stay grounded to your goals, and remember what truly matters to you. This exercise frequently reorders my plans for the rest of the day.
There's also value in stillness when you're in public or with other people. Just shutting up and taking in your surroundings for 30-60 seconds is kind of like a mini superpower, you start noticing little things that other people don't see. Many of the little decisions you make automatically throughout the day get better if you just, y'know, sit there and think about them quietly for 1 minute. You end up going to a better restaurant, or remembering to call a loved one, because you simply took a moment to just pause and reflect.
It's the best thing in the world really. All this mindfulness stuff has profound benefits.
For those that don’t know, the Quakers are like Zen Buddhism met radical Protestant Christians in the 1600s. There is no creed, no minister/priest/leader.
We sit together quietly for 60 minutes. If someone feels inspired, they stand up and speak. Then they sit down and the Meeting continues in silence. Some Meetings are silent from start to finish; others have speakers the whole time.
While there is no creed, people often speak about truth, equality, peace, and simplicity. I found it when looking for a belief system to pass on to my kids, should I have some.
If you’re curious, try it some Sunday. It’s an interesting experience.
I wonder if the author’s use of “you” rubbed some people the wrong way: “You are alone and powerless. You encounter a deep challenge,” “When you let your thoughts wander, they take you on a journey you’ll never think possible,” etc.
The pronoun seems intended to refer to the author’s own experiences, but I can see why some readers might think it refers to them. I had a bit of a negative reaction to those “you”s myself, as I experience cafés very differently from the author.
I have a similar negative reaction to op-ed articles that use “we” to refer to some sort of personified zeitgeist. From some essays currently appearing in the Opinion section of the New York Times:
“We are all in a constant state of grief, even though we don’t always admit it.”
“But we spend much of our lives in weaker friendship markets, where people are open to conversation, but not connection.”
“Over the past six decades or so, we chose autonomy, and as a result, we have been on a collective journey from autonomy to achievement to anxiety.”
Thanks for the perspective. I was looking for it in the comments.
The thing with a café is. OK, it exists. But it just isn't for me. I like being on my own, and you don't go to a public place for that. I got coffee at home (not as good as in a half decent café). If I really do need coffee on the go it is while travelling, and then I don't sit inside (no, not on a crowdy terrace either).
I could write you a post about the the unbearable joy of listening to hypnotic music while on a train or bus ride.
I could write a post about sitting stoned in a squat with everyone going to bed slowly but surely, and this girl still playing her guitar smiling friendly at me, and eventually guiding me to a place where I could sleep. Cause at this point, I had no clue where to go.
But in the end, it boils down to mindfulness and meditation.
I used to do this too but soon I realized I wanted my phone for payments (say, coffee) and/or unlocking public bikes (like Lime).
Now I have 2 phones:
- Phone A with my SIM, internet, payment cards, but unlogged from any internet account
- Phone B, no SIM, usually connected to Phone A via hotspot, with email, messaging apps, logged into hacker news and everything.
When I want to take an offline walk/ebike-ride I only bring Phone A with me.
140 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 100 ms ] threadI sit alone in cafes all the time, for many reasons. I don’t feel particularly joyful about it nor weird. I just do it to take a break and have something to drink, or wait for someone or something. Often I don’t look at my phone at all. That doesn’t feel weird either, or rebellious, or whatever the author experiences.
I don’t understand the post at all.
I’d have gone to Japan. I’ve been to Japan, it’s awesome.
Two people can go to the exact same venue, do the exact same things, and have radically different experiences because of how our different internal worlds collide with that same external world.
And a further part of the magic of being human is that we're then able to share those experiences with each other. I wouldn't want to diminish someone else's experience of a place simply because I didn't have that same experience.
Very well written title though.
I think the important part is leaving your phone and other devices home. Be alone, without even a possibility of connecting (apart from the old-fashione way of talking to an actual human being). People used to do this y’know? Back then.
Without phone it would be too cringe, even with phone its cringe. I behave as if though I'm texting someone. It's the societal weight of being the one who is alone.
But yeah, I found the whole intro section a bit confusing because it’s just extremely common to find people enjoying an hour alone at a café here and certainly not “against the reasons cafès exist”.
>It’s contradictory to sit alone in a café. It’s against the reason cafés exist.
I had the same feeling as you. Why is it weird to do something alone ? - and like you I thought this must be an American thing. Mostly, because stuff like "eating out alone" or "going to the movies alone" was describe as weird by American authors before.
Sure, it's close to impossible to not "auto-socialize", when you are alone. It's one of the reason I like to do things alone. Either being a regular to the cafe/restaurant host or you get into contact with other people,
It doesn't. That was pure projection on the author's part.
> They are designed as meeting spaces. There is no table with a single chair.
I'm so confused by this, because every cafe I've ever been to is full of people there alone. It seems to almost be the default, honestly.
I'm probably an above averagely anxious person, but after a few trips without disaster, it becomes a non issue.
100%.
Exposure therapy is the cure for anxiety. I have a personal hunch that part of the massive rise in anxiety in the world is explained by many of us no longer being regularly forced outside of our comfort zones. Before the Internet and smartphones, we were obligated to go into the unknown much more often. It was a constant mandatory exposure therapy.
Today, I can't remember the last time I walked into a restaurant without already having seen the inside on Google Maps, read several reviews on Yelp, and perused the menu online.
Another thing to try is to go to a diner alone. Same deal.
A decade ago I was working a boring job paying the bills in a small company. I honestly felt that despite being financially safe I was wasting my life. I didn't believe in the company mission and I wasn't gaining new skills. I was bored out.
I went to a cafe every morning for 30min BEFORE my actual job. I did whatever I wanted, meaning reading, writing, jolting down ideas, being productive or not, but the point was it was MY time to think.
This is so basic. I went with a notebook, a pencil, paid 2€ every morning for a basic black coffee... but what was special was having a dedicated time and place regularly to just inch at it, whatever "it" might be for me.
Well, fast forward ~10 years and I'm HYPED. I'm so excited pretty much every morning that I can't help for the next day to work on more interesting projects.
TL;DR: yes, go to the cafe, alone, for yourself.
- None of my colleagues, and nobody in any of my social circles, would ever be seen dead there
- You meet the best people, everyones really nice
- Nobody judges anybody, we're all just there go get a bit pissed, lots of people socialising, some people are there doing a crossword, I'm just a guy sitting on my laptop coding, nobody cares
- I can focus better with lots of background noise
- Cheap beer
If you've not tried it, try it!
In the centre of the city there are three spoons. One for the people with tattoos on their knuckles (near the magistrates' court oddly - I used to pick up gossip in the barbers round the corner but he has been bought out so the building can be converted in to 'luxury apartments'), one for the old geezers with leather jackets and a third very large one opposite a conference centre. This latter one very well managed and always a seat. All kinds of people but never rammed.
Almost 6-7 years ago, I read about a 30min challenge to sit upright without doing anything in a chair challenge. That changed how I think about distractions. If I had written about it, there surely will be people who would just like here say... What is so crazy about it? I do that all the time...
To me, this post is someone's joy and curiosity shared through a well written piece. Everybody discover certain things at different stages of their lives. What's so bad about that?
Was able to bring a smile on my face. A good post. :)
Some of the negativity is because many people out there were used to this slower way of living only for capitalist techbros to optimize every waking moment everything and hasten the rat race.
So now the only people who can sit idly at a cafe would be those who've already have a few million in the bank. It's similar to the CEO goes to a yoga retreat in Bali (or Burning Man) trope to rediscover being part of society.
When feeling too busy, I always make time to go to a sit at my local Vipassana center, spending an hour sitting actually frees up so much more time in my life that it's well worth it. Gandhi definitely had it right when he said "I have so much to accomplish today that I must meditate for two hours instead of one"
Inevitably when you're still with no distractions, your subconscious starts surfacing various thoughts. There is a random element to what pops into your head, but there will also be patterns. Just sitting there and observing, and maybe asking yourself a few questions about what emerges, is an incredible way to become aware of your emotional state, stay grounded to your goals, and remember what truly matters to you. This exercise frequently reorders my plans for the rest of the day.
There's also value in stillness when you're in public or with other people. Just shutting up and taking in your surroundings for 30-60 seconds is kind of like a mini superpower, you start noticing little things that other people don't see. Many of the little decisions you make automatically throughout the day get better if you just, y'know, sit there and think about them quietly for 1 minute. You end up going to a better restaurant, or remembering to call a loved one, because you simply took a moment to just pause and reflect.
It's the best thing in the world really. All this mindfulness stuff has profound benefits.
On this post specifically or HN on the whole? ;)
Quakers call this "silent meeting."
We sit together quietly for 60 minutes. If someone feels inspired, they stand up and speak. Then they sit down and the Meeting continues in silence. Some Meetings are silent from start to finish; others have speakers the whole time.
While there is no creed, people often speak about truth, equality, peace, and simplicity. I found it when looking for a belief system to pass on to my kids, should I have some.
If you’re curious, try it some Sunday. It’s an interesting experience.
I wonder if the author’s use of “you” rubbed some people the wrong way: “You are alone and powerless. You encounter a deep challenge,” “When you let your thoughts wander, they take you on a journey you’ll never think possible,” etc.
The pronoun seems intended to refer to the author’s own experiences, but I can see why some readers might think it refers to them. I had a bit of a negative reaction to those “you”s myself, as I experience cafés very differently from the author.
I have a similar negative reaction to op-ed articles that use “we” to refer to some sort of personified zeitgeist. From some essays currently appearing in the Opinion section of the New York Times:
“We are all in a constant state of grief, even though we don’t always admit it.”
“But we spend much of our lives in weaker friendship markets, where people are open to conversation, but not connection.”
“Over the past six decades or so, we chose autonomy, and as a result, we have been on a collective journey from autonomy to achievement to anxiety.”
Too many folks scroll right past the opportunities.
The thing with a café is. OK, it exists. But it just isn't for me. I like being on my own, and you don't go to a public place for that. I got coffee at home (not as good as in a half decent café). If I really do need coffee on the go it is while travelling, and then I don't sit inside (no, not on a crowdy terrace either).
I could write you a post about the the unbearable joy of listening to hypnotic music while on a train or bus ride.
I could write a post about sitting stoned in a squat with everyone going to bed slowly but surely, and this girl still playing her guitar smiling friendly at me, and eventually guiding me to a place where I could sleep. Cause at this point, I had no clue where to go.
But in the end, it boils down to mindfulness and meditation.
> I decided to leave my phone at home
I used to do this too but soon I realized I wanted my phone for payments (say, coffee) and/or unlocking public bikes (like Lime).
Now I have 2 phones: - Phone A with my SIM, internet, payment cards, but unlogged from any internet account - Phone B, no SIM, usually connected to Phone A via hotspot, with email, messaging apps, logged into hacker news and everything.
When I want to take an offline walk/ebike-ride I only bring Phone A with me.
Fresh out the gate just wrong and confused.