Hi, these projects already have grid connection dates so no new grid upgrades are required to deliver. The developers of the wind farm have to factor in transmission charges (tnuos) into their bids that pay for these.
> The government argues that wind projects are cheaper than new gas power stations and will "bring down bills for good", but the Conservatives have accused its climate targets of raising energy costs.
Those for it say it is cheaper electricity, those against it say it is more expensive electricity. The cult members of each side say these are indisputable facts.
All I know is that when the wind blows and the sun shines my electricity costs £0.00 (or less) - I expect this comes at some kind of cost however.
The issue is that quite often the wind doesn’t blow - often for several weeks like last january - and the sun barely shines for much of the year. So renewables mean the country just has to pay for (and subsidise) a whole ton of extra infra but can’t actually retire non-renewable infra because you can’t rely on renewables. This strategy is why UK electricity is so absurdly expensive.
And when presented with this politicians and “green” sorts will handwave about pumped storage or whatever despite that basic back of the envelope calculations will show we can’t build enough of that to store 4 weeks worth of electricity for a whole country.
This hardly matters unless electricity prices for end consumers go down. And that can hardly happen without improved transmission lines and storage. And those are consistently being blocked by NIMBYs.
This is not a matter of policy, but of physics. Producers are far from consumers, in both time and space. Wind turbines are dispersed and far from cities, wind doesn't blow when there is high demand. And yet, these sources are being plugged into a grid that was built over decades under completely different assumptions.
No wonder the energy prices are high.
Edit:
Since some people don't believe that this matters, I'm attaching some basic sources about current state of UK power grid and necessary upgrades.
>The 8.4GW secured at this latest auction just about keeps the offshore wind target in reach, several analysts have told the BBC. But all those projects will still need connecting to the grid to generate electricity.
>"Getting that amount of capacity online by 2030 [will be] extremely challenging," said Nick Civetta, project leader at the Aurora Energy Research think tank.
We don't think reason about electricity generation in terms of portfolio construction. Renewables are cheap (although that's debatable in some ways) but volatile.
UK bills are pretty spicy but at least energy mix is trending in a good direction. Lots of wind, more interconnects, bit of nuclear and solar and with battery tech improving I’m hopeful this will land well eventually
However good this news is, it means nothing if the average household is not seeing any price decrease in their bill.
It's well and good to say that eventually sometime in the future prices will be lower but in the meantime it doesn't help that the prices continue to rise.
>All sorts of congratulatory posts about AR7...the £94 /MWh being roughly the level of today's wholesale power price is being used as some sort of positive signal
So here are some facts:
* The average wholesale power price
in 2025 was £80 /MWh
* The carbon price was £35 /t a year ago
and £73 /t today
* Carbon was c11-12% of the wholesale
power price a year ago
* It's c28% today
* AR7 contracts are for 20 years vs 15
years in AR1-6
* AR7 is the highest price since the
first auction
* We started subsidising wind in 1990!!
How anyone can think this is good news is beyond me. It's obviously good news for the subsidy farmers who will enjoy 20 year contracts at inflated prices, unless Reform wins the next General Election and rips them up in which case it will be pretty bad news
It is terrible news for consumers, embedding high prices for decades to come
13 comments
[ 2.4 ms ] story [ 34.0 ms ] threadNo discussion of what grid upgrades are required, although increasing production near England should reduce that.
(by comparison, ongoing nuclear project Hinkley Point C is currently scheduled to come online some time around 2030, assuming no further delays)
We're already at 70%+ of our energy coming from non-fossil-fuel sources, much higher than I expected: https://grid.iamkate.com/
Those for it say it is cheaper electricity, those against it say it is more expensive electricity. The cult members of each side say these are indisputable facts.
All I know is that when the wind blows and the sun shines my electricity costs £0.00 (or less) - I expect this comes at some kind of cost however.
And when presented with this politicians and “green” sorts will handwave about pumped storage or whatever despite that basic back of the envelope calculations will show we can’t build enough of that to store 4 weeks worth of electricity for a whole country.
This is not a matter of policy, but of physics. Producers are far from consumers, in both time and space. Wind turbines are dispersed and far from cities, wind doesn't blow when there is high demand. And yet, these sources are being plugged into a grid that was built over decades under completely different assumptions.
No wonder the energy prices are high.
Edit:
Since some people don't believe that this matters, I'm attaching some basic sources about current state of UK power grid and necessary upgrades.
https://electricalreview.co.uk/2024/09/20/survey-grid-connec...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp84yymxpjno
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68601354
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/ofgem-approves-37-bi...
Even in the linked article:
>The 8.4GW secured at this latest auction just about keeps the offshore wind target in reach, several analysts have told the BBC. But all those projects will still need connecting to the grid to generate electricity.
>"Getting that amount of capacity online by 2030 [will be] extremely challenging," said Nick Civetta, project leader at the Aurora Energy Research think tank.
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/us-cou...
Worked out very well in Germany, which is inspirational. Next up, get rid of the 5 remaining nuclear power plants.
It's well and good to say that eventually sometime in the future prices will be lower but in the meantime it doesn't help that the prices continue to rise.
So here are some facts:
* The average wholesale power price in 2025 was £80 /MWh * The carbon price was £35 /t a year ago and £73 /t today * Carbon was c11-12% of the wholesale power price a year ago * It's c28% today * AR7 contracts are for 20 years vs 15 years in AR1-6 * AR7 is the highest price since the first auction * We started subsidising wind in 1990!!
How anyone can think this is good news is beyond me. It's obviously good news for the subsidy farmers who will enjoy 20 year contracts at inflated prices, unless Reform wins the next General Election and rips them up in which case it will be pretty bad news
It is terrible news for consumers, embedding high prices for decades to come
> https://x.com/KathrynPorter26/status/2011693634278625460
Get in. we've just locked in / subsidized the most expensive form of energy.