So the city can't afford to comply with its own regulations, and instead of fixing the regulation, they find loopholes. I wonder if there's a lesson to be learned, here.
This is interesting for a completely different reason. It's the first time I see a web page disabling reader mode on my browser. When I enter reader mode, the page seems to recognize this and instantly reload, booting me back to the original page, which by the way seems unaffected by Dark Reader as well.
> Mozee went into detail comparing slow concrete curb accessibility work to the faster asphalt street work. Per Mozee, “there’s approximately 14 ramps in a mile.” So for “one crew to build out those 14 ramps will take approximately three months.” In contrast, he said, “a paving crew on a good day … could pave that same mile in a weekend or one week, at most.”
Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then come back and do the ramps one at a time?
I read this section and, along with the surrounding context, it seems like the issue is less having-money-for-materials and more having-money-to-hire-enough-skilled-workers-to-work-on-multiple-ramps-in-parallel. Different budgets, perhaps?
In the UK we call this 'Surface Dressing' and is a typical money saving meaasure to avoid the full cost of paving the road properly. It looks terrible and doenst last very long, so peronsally I dont see the point.
> In a presentation at the Jan. 28 City Council Public Works Committee (audio, slides), General Manager Keith Mozee attributed the shift to large asphalt repair to cuts to StreetsLA workforce. In the current and past year, StreetsLA’s staffing budget was cut 26 percent.
At least they're admitting to the general public that the cause for the dysfunctionality is budget cuts. People can then vote accordingly for someone who campaigns on increasing the tax base.
Basically, every city hall is like the show Parks and Recreation from a competency situation. Then it’s about rubbing each other’s back and staying in power.
You have to jump through hurdles to get hired into a real position, or know someone that can sidestep those hurdles to get you hired, then once you’re in, it’s about staying there. This combination means you never do anything really useful, at least not quickly. The citizens take a backseat while the clowns in power perform in the circus.
Because it'll rain out next week and they'll fall apart again. Same problem in San Diego. Southern CA didn't really choose a great aggregate mixture for the winder rain we've gotten the past few years.
We do the same here in Indianapolis and my read is that it's about cost containment. Our tax base here really doesn't fully support city services. And then more people move to the high-tax-base suburbs for better services, and the cycle repeats and gets worse.
Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements.
Its easy to build when your goal is just to build the thing. But theres so much code and regulation crap (like ADA). I know someone building a small residential home, they have literally 1000s of pages of documents to be submitted for every tiny thing you can imagine. Regulations have completely spiraled out of control in this country. Nobody is keeping any of them in check.
We need to tax personal vehicals by the ton. And I mean like, punitively. Pickup trucks should cost $500K if they're not registered to licensed business.
I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities.
I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesis is correct, we've basically found ourselves in slow moving crisis, where city budgets start very slowly, but very surely, become unsustainable, and by the time anyone notices, it's mostly too late to do anything about it. Pipes cost money, repaving costs money, replacing your wastewater system costs money... lots of money. The fact that they only have to be replaced every 30-50 years doesn't mean the costs go away... they just disappear temporarily. Deferring that maintenance doesn't actually do anything except make the problem worse tomorrow.
The idea that LA literally can't afford to bring it's sidewalks up to ADA code is insane. The idea that they're engaging in penny-smart, pound-foolish solutions is a strong signal that the city budget is already deeply broken, and likely is not fixable under the current paradigm of LA politics.
California cities could trivially fix their budget problems by satisfying the demand for housing by adding density, but it seems they are determined to do nothing until the wheels finally fall off, and the city's budget crisis spirals out of control. Even then, I wonder if they will take the Detroit-route and declare bankruptcy before actually addressing the problem.
this is coming from someone who lives in san francisco like you and has a 2 kid, 4 adult family with no car. it's been like 80 years of USA = cars. people seem to really like SFH + cars, they vote for it, they pay for it, and seem to accept even longer commutes than ever. consider why. it's not so simple.
> Strong Towns thesis is correct... slow moving crisis... The idea that LA literally can't afford to bring it's sidewalks up to ADA code is insane
see, this tells me you're not getting it at all. it is an insult to process, yes. But there's no crisis. Strong Towns is kind of obviously wrong.
This always grinds my gears (pun intended). Forcing everyone to live in a horribly dense, stifling, unhealthy situation isn't the issue. And the concept of saying LA isn't dense enough is beyond mind boggling, the number of people living there is beyond absurd. And yes, I know it's spread out, but the numbers don't lie, there's already more density than many places.
What this really is, is backdoor environmentalism. And I say that as someone that wants emissions down, reduced carbon, but a cat is a cat. And focusing on density to remove cars, because certain segments of the population rail against cars, isn't the problem people claim they are trying to solve.
For the roads? The easy way to pay for the roads, is to tax gas appropriately, and then ensure that tax only pays for roads. Nothing else, roads.
The second? Very clear end of year municipal budgets, showing how those funds were used.
Eventually, you'll reach a situation where the gas tax is the cost of road maintenance. And that's how it should be.
Back to the overall question? Well, I suppose you have quakes in LA, but outside of that concept, the US south is just about the easiest place to maintain roads.
In Canadaland, we have road damage due to freezing and thawing. Frost greaves for example, are where water gets under the pavement, freezes, and breaks it upward as the ice expands. No amount of drainage can fully protect from this, it just happens. And the cost for daily snow removal, ice mitigation(salt, etc), dirt being spread, the same for all the sidewalks isn't free.
LA has none of that. The US south doesn't, generally speaking.
LA doesn't have a road problem. It doesn't have a revenue problem. It has absurd infighting, like the entire rest of the US, with team politics and an inability to act as a result. It also has poor fiscal constraint.
Smaller LA side roads should last decades with proper maintenance.
But that's part of the problem too.
A tiny crack can be sealed, but leave it a year and it becomes a pothole.
LA is much less dense than Canadian cities. Taking the central municipalities which seem fairly comparable:
Toronto: 3.271M in 631 km2 = 5184/km2
Los Angeles: 3.879M in 1215 km2 = 3192/km2
Toronto's population is growing, up 17% 2021 to 2025, while Los Angeles is marginally down 0.5% 2020 to 2024.
Even smaller cities in Canada seem much more dense than their Californian equivalents, and they are more pleasant and walkable/cycleable because of that.
And people expect trains and metros to pay for themselves. Car infrastructure maintenance is bankrupting the government. And on top of that you have the opportunity cost of all the road and parking space.
The vast majority of the comments here seem to be completely missing the actual reason. I see people claiming this is about heavier SUV's, about people moving to the suburbs, governmental incompetence, that we "can't figure out how to pave roads", that this is corruption...
...just no. What this is, is that the federal ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) has required wheelchair access (curb ramps) along roads since 1990. To comply, "Measure HLA" is a citizen initiative passed in 2025, which forces the city to build curb ramps WHENEVER it resurfaces a road.
But here's the kicker -- as the "Measure HLA" site explains [1], it promises "No New Taxes or Fees", claiming "improvements would be made during routine street maintenance".
But because it DIDN'T raise additional funds, but is a much more expensive process, and the city doesn't have the money, the city is getting around it by doing "large asphalt repair" which is lower-quality but avoids having to spend the extra money and time (which they don't have) to implement the curb ramps and other requirements.
All of this seems like an entirely predictable outcome when a law is passed that requires more work but doesn't pay for it. And in this case you can't blame a short-sighted legislature or a corrupt process -- it was a citizens' initiative. That promised voters they could have something for free, which isn't free. See this key quote:
> Per Mozee, “there’s approximately 14 ramps in a mile.” So for “one crew to build out those 14 ramps will take approximately three months.” In contrast, he said, “a paving crew on a good day … could pave that same mile in a weekend or one week, at most.”
So what exactly did people expect?
I'm all for accessibility, but demanding it without paying for it is not the way.
This makes no sense. What you call "curb ramps" is a part of standard road infrastructure in Germany. They're basically everywhere in Germany. If the Los Angeles government can't figure out how to implement a practice that has been legislated for 36 years, then they deserve a kick in the balls that forces them to wake up.
The fact that 36 years of neglect coincide in 2026 isn't the result of a law that happened to pass 2025. That law was passed because of the 36 years of neglect. The asphalt patching strategy is just one more last ditch attempt at ignoring the 36 year old ADA law.
I've been reading comments feeling like I'm going bonkers. We don't have 'curb ramps' here in Australia (like external ramps from the curb to the road? I can't find pictures of them), but the curbs have downward slopes at intersections to meet the road at road level, like a driveway. And that's pretty standard everywhere.
"large pothole" .. Oh sweet summer child, I can think of at least ten bigger than that in my small British town. It seems they're doing something in LA, even if asphalting over half the width of a road isn't ideal. Over here, we packing the potholes with loose material, only for it to all come out again within a few weeks. We've gone through several tyres (including one total blowout, cords and all) in the past couple of years, and pothole related callouts are up 18% in the past year apparently: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cddn0n3p2ppo
Ramps were kinda normal even in deep Russia 20+ years ago, I mean I wouldn't call them fancy and some were steeper than others but they were ramps, great when riding around on a bicycle
hard to believe it's a problem for LA in 2026... 3 months to build 12 ramps?
Title is a little bit misleading. Article says they repave part of the streets, just not the whole street, because of ADA ramps they would have to rebuild etc.
> Hadar noted the shift appeared to primarily be to avoid triggering adding missing curb ramps (for wheelchair access),
Products from the disability industry are incredibly expensive. In London someone worked out it would have been cheaper to hire a full time human attendant for every person in a wheelchair than to pay for the city’s existing scant coverage ramps. Of you’re in tech , think of the overpriced web browsers supposedly aimed at disabled people from years ago and their “first boil the ocean” approach for web accessibility.
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[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 70.0 ms ] threadWhy don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then come back and do the ramps one at a time?
https://www.somerset.gov.uk/roads-travel-and-parking/surface...
At least they're admitting to the general public that the cause for the dysfunctionality is budget cuts. People can then vote accordingly for someone who campaigns on increasing the tax base.
You have to jump through hurdles to get hired into a real position, or know someone that can sidestep those hurdles to get you hired, then once you’re in, it’s about staying there. This combination means you never do anything really useful, at least not quickly. The citizens take a backseat while the clowns in power perform in the circus.
Another fun one is talking about how much was accomplished decades ago when the streets were...decades newer.
Go ahead and say it's mismanagement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg
LA government is an enormous corrupt police department with a few measly services slowly decaying as their funding gets cut.
You will see that patching is more labor intensive per asphalt wear time, thus incurring greater city budget expenditure on average basis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns
I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesis is correct, we've basically found ourselves in slow moving crisis, where city budgets start very slowly, but very surely, become unsustainable, and by the time anyone notices, it's mostly too late to do anything about it. Pipes cost money, repaving costs money, replacing your wastewater system costs money... lots of money. The fact that they only have to be replaced every 30-50 years doesn't mean the costs go away... they just disappear temporarily. Deferring that maintenance doesn't actually do anything except make the problem worse tomorrow.
The idea that LA literally can't afford to bring it's sidewalks up to ADA code is insane. The idea that they're engaging in penny-smart, pound-foolish solutions is a strong signal that the city budget is already deeply broken, and likely is not fixable under the current paradigm of LA politics.
California cities could trivially fix their budget problems by satisfying the demand for housing by adding density, but it seems they are determined to do nothing until the wheels finally fall off, and the city's budget crisis spirals out of control. Even then, I wonder if they will take the Detroit-route and declare bankruptcy before actually addressing the problem.
> Strong Towns thesis is correct... slow moving crisis... The idea that LA literally can't afford to bring it's sidewalks up to ADA code is insane
see, this tells me you're not getting it at all. it is an insult to process, yes. But there's no crisis. Strong Towns is kind of obviously wrong.
What this really is, is backdoor environmentalism. And I say that as someone that wants emissions down, reduced carbon, but a cat is a cat. And focusing on density to remove cars, because certain segments of the population rail against cars, isn't the problem people claim they are trying to solve.
For the roads? The easy way to pay for the roads, is to tax gas appropriately, and then ensure that tax only pays for roads. Nothing else, roads.
The second? Very clear end of year municipal budgets, showing how those funds were used.
Eventually, you'll reach a situation where the gas tax is the cost of road maintenance. And that's how it should be.
Back to the overall question? Well, I suppose you have quakes in LA, but outside of that concept, the US south is just about the easiest place to maintain roads.
In Canadaland, we have road damage due to freezing and thawing. Frost greaves for example, are where water gets under the pavement, freezes, and breaks it upward as the ice expands. No amount of drainage can fully protect from this, it just happens. And the cost for daily snow removal, ice mitigation(salt, etc), dirt being spread, the same for all the sidewalks isn't free.
LA has none of that. The US south doesn't, generally speaking.
LA doesn't have a road problem. It doesn't have a revenue problem. It has absurd infighting, like the entire rest of the US, with team politics and an inability to act as a result. It also has poor fiscal constraint.
Smaller LA side roads should last decades with proper maintenance.
But that's part of the problem too.
A tiny crack can be sealed, but leave it a year and it becomes a pothole.
Toronto: 3.271M in 631 km2 = 5184/km2
Los Angeles: 3.879M in 1215 km2 = 3192/km2
Toronto's population is growing, up 17% 2021 to 2025, while Los Angeles is marginally down 0.5% 2020 to 2024.
Even smaller cities in Canada seem much more dense than their Californian equivalents, and they are more pleasant and walkable/cycleable because of that.
Neoliberalism.
(and too much cars, of course)
I just wonder if that isn’t a totally naive, laughably unthinking remark to be making?
...just no. What this is, is that the federal ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) has required wheelchair access (curb ramps) along roads since 1990. To comply, "Measure HLA" is a citizen initiative passed in 2025, which forces the city to build curb ramps WHENEVER it resurfaces a road.
But here's the kicker -- as the "Measure HLA" site explains [1], it promises "No New Taxes or Fees", claiming "improvements would be made during routine street maintenance".
But because it DIDN'T raise additional funds, but is a much more expensive process, and the city doesn't have the money, the city is getting around it by doing "large asphalt repair" which is lower-quality but avoids having to spend the extra money and time (which they don't have) to implement the curb ramps and other requirements.
All of this seems like an entirely predictable outcome when a law is passed that requires more work but doesn't pay for it. And in this case you can't blame a short-sighted legislature or a corrupt process -- it was a citizens' initiative. That promised voters they could have something for free, which isn't free. See this key quote:
> Per Mozee, “there’s approximately 14 ramps in a mile.” So for “one crew to build out those 14 ramps will take approximately three months.” In contrast, he said, “a paving crew on a good day … could pave that same mile in a weekend or one week, at most.”
So what exactly did people expect?
I'm all for accessibility, but demanding it without paying for it is not the way.
[1] https://yesonhla.com/
The fact that 36 years of neglect coincide in 2026 isn't the result of a law that happened to pass 2025. That law was passed because of the 36 years of neglect. The asphalt patching strategy is just one more last ditch attempt at ignoring the 36 year old ADA law.
hard to believe it's a problem for LA in 2026... 3 months to build 12 ramps?
Products from the disability industry are incredibly expensive. In London someone worked out it would have been cheaper to hire a full time human attendant for every person in a wheelchair than to pay for the city’s existing scant coverage ramps. Of you’re in tech , think of the overpriced web browsers supposedly aimed at disabled people from years ago and their “first boil the ocean” approach for web accessibility.