People keep saying this but the "extreme left" in the US isn't even that extreme. One one side you have conspiracy theory poisoned neo-Nazis and Christian nationalists and on the other... people who want affordable healthcare and who believe science is real.
She does seem like an actual leftist I'll give you that. But rhetoric doesn't count for much, what has she actually done that's radical?
I can only judge from her Wikipedia page but under political positions it says "Her platform has included universal healthcare, stronger tenant protections, funding programs for children instead of funding war, abolishing US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), banning large super PACs from elections, and prohibiting members of Congress from trading stocks." And she opposes Israel. I'm sorry but that doesn't read as extreme to me. Maybe abolishing ICE.
What has AOC done that's "far left," or Mamdani? They can say what they want but none of these people actually threaten the status quo of American capitalism and imperialism, which (in my mind) anything worth calling "far left" must do to be valid. Bear in mind the standard on the other side is an attempted coup with a gallows on the Capitol lawn.
Actual far left movements like BLM and Occupy get co-opted and undermined before they even have a chance of affecting radical change. If any of these people even so much as glance towards the White House they'll be tossed aside like Bernie by the Democrats, because the biggest problem with leftism in the US is that the only even ostensibly "leftist" party with any real power hates the left almost as much as the right does.
I wish the DSA luck but I expect absolutely nothing of value from them. Wake me up when they're hanging billionaires from lampposts and then tell me about the "extremism" on both sides.
Except the thesis is that the mainstream left (which would be the Democratic Party) is already just as extremist as MAGA (which has become the mainstream right.) When people resort to calling Joe Biden a communist, or even Barack Obama, because there's no one in power on the mainstream left to whom the label "far left" could reasonably apply, it's an obvious false equivalence. The "Nazis" are saying Nazi things and doing Nazi things while the "Communists" are at best European style Democratic Socialists but are framed as hardline Stalinists in order to make the "pendulum of extremism" narrative work.
You're correct that the increasing radicalism on the left didn't materialize from a vacuum, it's a result of the populist left being disenfranchised by how not leftist the Democrats are in practice, it isn't a result of iterative radicalism within the Democratic party itself and it wouldn't exist if the Democrats were anywhere near as extreme as the Republicans make them out to be.
If you're looking at both parties and seeing two equal and opposing ideological forces then I think you're deluding yourself. Maybe in a few years that changes if the left can do to the Democrats what MAGA did to Republicans, but at the moment it doesn't reflect reality. What we really have is a far right party and a center right party.
Well, the USA is a center-right country, so the party alignment makes sense.
Even then, 60% of dems think the party is already too far left. So I'm not sure exactly why you are rooting for some socialist party. Nobody wants it. If people wanted it, the party would exist.
I do adore a great many socialists. You will find many are actually altruistic intellectuals.
However I like to say, if you are a true socialist and not a hypocrite, then spend some time as a civil servant or in some capacity which is responsible for the well being of other people you are not related to.
And I can think of two for instance in which socialist values work: cooperatives and military service!
>Even then, 60% of dems think the party is already too far left. So I'm not sure exactly why you are rooting for some socialist party. Nobody wants it. If people wanted it, the party would exist.
The party does exist. We're in a thread discussing said party. And I guess you didn't read the part of my comment where I pointed out that the reason that party exists is that people do want the Democrats to move further left than they're willing to.
Also socialism seems to work just fine throughout the entire Western world, for the definition of "socialism" being used here.
healthcare, policing, student loans, housing, the military. Name a leftist position and I think you'll find a lot of dissatisfaction with the party's position on it.
What else would you call people who believe in Nazi conspiracy theories, court Nazi influencers, display Nazi symbols, parrot Nazi propaganda and spread Nazi memes?
At some point you have to face facts about the nature of MAGA and what American conservatism is actually turning into.
The problem is that people tune out when you call them Nazis. If you want them to vote a different way, you've got to engay with them and have a talk with them. Yelling Nazi online and mic dropping isn't going to get kids out of ICE concentration camps. Neither is this comment, unfortunately.
The problem is you're blaming me for the actions of Nazis because pointing out that the Nazis are Nazis makes Nazis feel bad, rather than blaming the Nazis for being Nazis.
What exactly do you think they have to say that I need to hear? The specific reason why I deserve to be put against the wall with rest of the degenerates? No thank you.
Maybe you should blame them for putting kids in ICE concentration camps, and not me. I didn't do that, and I didn't vote for the people who did.
I'm pointing out that hey, if you want people to vote your way, that calling someone a Nazi isn't going to convince them that you've got anything worth listening to.
And I'm pointing out that those Nazis were never going to listen to me or vote my way to begin with, because "my way" is antithetical to their worldview.
And Nazis is what they are. That's what you call fascists, white supremacist bigots and anti-semites. People who believe in race war and white genocide. That black people are genetically predisposed to low IQs and that Islam is a "religion of evil." That immigration from non-white countries is a plague and a threat to "western civilization." 14 words and all that.
There's nothing wrong with calling them what they are. Nazis don't deserve to live comfortable lives. They don't deserve to be treated like respectable people who simply have different but otherwise perfectly valid political views.
I suspect the position is that the GOP and Republicans of the past half century no longer hold power, and that many of the players and supporters of the current US administration are effectively Nazi equivalent.
The unarguably actual White Nationalists turning out in Washington for the 250th celebration of "the first White POTUS" certainly agree.
Darializa Avila Chevalier wasn't running in 2024, Kamala Harris was, and she was trying as hard as possible to appeal to the right to the point of alienating her base entirely. I don't think "crazy rhetoric" is the reason Trump won so much as the fact that a significant number of Americans simply cannot take a woman, much less a black woman, seriously in a position of power.
Because I'll point it out again, and doubtless be ignored again - there is nothing approaching "socialism" anywhere near the mainstream of the Democratic Party. The Democrats supported Israel. The Democrats don't support abolishing prisons. The Democrats, despite propaganda to the contrary, have never wanted to "abolish" the border. Biden and Obama were both aggressive in their border policies. Hell, Biden tried to fund part of Trump's border wall in 2023.
The only people who are turned off by the Democrats because they're "too socialist" are people who were never going to vote for them to begin with. Everyone else is pissed that they aren't nearly leftist enough.
At some point you DSA types need to give up on the identity politics nonsense. And you contradict yourself. Was it because she was too right or because she wasn't a white man? Is it both? Then perhaps you all need to understand how to win elections and stop whining. Winning means convincing others to vote for your side. 51 > 49, did you know? Literally 0 political movements win by shaming the electorate, believe it or not. Do better.
If you think Biden was tough on the border in the first 3 years, I have a bridge to sell you. It was abundantly clear to anyone that they were paralyzed by the far-left faction who wanted them to do nothing. And that is why the crossings surged until year 3, when they realized how doing nothing was gonna cost them the election. There was absolutely nothing aggressive about that. If you can't even see that, I can't explain more complicated topics to you.
Again, there are many people (myself included) who reject this socialism nonsense. And yes, it costs them votes, even if not in your college dorm group.
>At some point you DSA types need to give up on the identity politics nonsense. And you contradict yourself. Was it because she was too right or because she wasn't a white man? Is it both? Then perhaps you all need to understand how to win elections and stop whining. Winning means convincing others to vote for your side. 51 > 49, did you know? Literally 0 political movements win by shaming the electorate, believe it or not. Do better.
You're gloating like the Democrats didn't win the popular vote entirely in 2016, didn't win the actual vote in 2020, and the margins weren't razor thin in 2024. Like 51 to 49 is a blowout. Get your head checked, buddy.
And no electorate has been shamed harder that Trump voters at this point.
Really, it's like talking to a Markov chain with you people sometimes.
You need to look up the definition of the word "contradiction." Kamala being too far right and being too black and female isn't a contradiction. And I assume your suggestion for winning elections is, unsurprisingly, be white, be a man and be a right-winger. I'll put that suggestion in the big pile of suggestions that the left only needs to abandon its principles entirely to get anywhere, which you and others like you have so helpfully offered.
>If you think Biden was tough on the border in the first 3 years, I have a bridge to sell you. It was abundantly clear to anyone that they were paralyzed by the far-left faction who wanted them to do nothing.
Again, you're just spouting right-wing propaganda here. It's wild that I'm in this thread with someone named "enragebait" and you're the one showing their ass.
> I can't explain more complicated topics to you.
And there's the personal attack, right on schedule.
>Again, there are many people (myself included) who reject this socialism nonsense.
Given your espoused opinions, you were never going to vote for a Democrat to begin with, so yours is not a vote that was cost. So your opinion isn't really relevant, and can be written off without consideration.
The lack of a coherent border policy from 2020-2023 is.... right-wing propaganda?
Were you alive during that time? I honestly can't tell if you are trolling or just dumb. The border was complete chaos and cost the dems the election. You cannot possibly be this ignorant.
You continue to throw people out of your tent and then try to shame them. You clearly do it for some virtue signaling reason, because it certainly hasn't helped your side win.
You seem to take it as a good thing that you keep losing to Trump by only a little. If your side can't beat Donald Trump I just have no idea what to tell you. Please go touch grass and talk to the medium American voter. Then you'll realize how out-of-touch you really are.
On the race thing... you do the DSA thing, yet again. There are many many non-white, female leaders in politics. Blaming the loss on that is silly and reductive. Do better. It's also insulting to those already in power.
Also, you have no idea how I've voted. The fact that you make such assumptions is all the evidence that shows your arguments are about as strong as a wet cardboard box. What a way to convince people to join your party!
Supporting Israel and heckling Palestinian protestors, courting the Cheneys and promising to include conservatives in her cabinet, bragging about her guns, etc.
right on. this video is typical banon unleashing an attack on carlson et al, as he did many times before and it always worked (i.e. everyone distanced from the target of the attacks and toed the line to avoid becoming a target)
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[ 5.7 ms ] story [ 45.2 ms ] threadI can only judge from her Wikipedia page but under political positions it says "Her platform has included universal healthcare, stronger tenant protections, funding programs for children instead of funding war, abolishing US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), banning large super PACs from elections, and prohibiting members of Congress from trading stocks." And she opposes Israel. I'm sorry but that doesn't read as extreme to me. Maybe abolishing ICE.
What has AOC done that's "far left," or Mamdani? They can say what they want but none of these people actually threaten the status quo of American capitalism and imperialism, which (in my mind) anything worth calling "far left" must do to be valid. Bear in mind the standard on the other side is an attempted coup with a gallows on the Capitol lawn.
Actual far left movements like BLM and Occupy get co-opted and undermined before they even have a chance of affecting radical change. If any of these people even so much as glance towards the White House they'll be tossed aside like Bernie by the Democrats, because the biggest problem with leftism in the US is that the only even ostensibly "leftist" party with any real power hates the left almost as much as the right does.
I wish the DSA luck but I expect absolutely nothing of value from them. Wake me up when they're hanging billionaires from lampposts and then tell me about the "extremism" on both sides.
Nothing happens without mobilizing and catalyzing the middle. All “sides” know this.
You're correct that the increasing radicalism on the left didn't materialize from a vacuum, it's a result of the populist left being disenfranchised by how not leftist the Democrats are in practice, it isn't a result of iterative radicalism within the Democratic party itself and it wouldn't exist if the Democrats were anywhere near as extreme as the Republicans make them out to be.
If you're looking at both parties and seeing two equal and opposing ideological forces then I think you're deluding yourself. Maybe in a few years that changes if the left can do to the Democrats what MAGA did to Republicans, but at the moment it doesn't reflect reality. What we really have is a far right party and a center right party.
Anyone can “call” or “say” anything in this age of amplification. Sides will always make excessive generalizations of the other.
Everyone sees the “other” side as a collective singular body of “them” and their own side as a collection of distinguishable individuals like “us.”
Even then, 60% of dems think the party is already too far left. So I'm not sure exactly why you are rooting for some socialist party. Nobody wants it. If people wanted it, the party would exist.
Also, socialism doesn't work. :)
However I like to say, if you are a true socialist and not a hypocrite, then spend some time as a civil servant or in some capacity which is responsible for the well being of other people you are not related to.
And I can think of two for instance in which socialist values work: cooperatives and military service!
The party does exist. We're in a thread discussing said party. And I guess you didn't read the part of my comment where I pointed out that the reason that party exists is that people do want the Democrats to move further left than they're willing to.
Also socialism seems to work just fine throughout the entire Western world, for the definition of "socialism" being used here.
On which issues would you say the majority of democratic voters want the party to move further left?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/07/01/polls/times-s...
> Do you think the Democratic Party is … > Too far to the left: 53%
Are you arguing that the GOP and the replican voters are nazis?
At some point you have to face facts about the nature of MAGA and what American conservatism is actually turning into.
What exactly do you think they have to say that I need to hear? The specific reason why I deserve to be put against the wall with rest of the degenerates? No thank you.
Maybe you should blame them for putting kids in ICE concentration camps, and not me. I didn't do that, and I didn't vote for the people who did.
And Nazis is what they are. That's what you call fascists, white supremacist bigots and anti-semites. People who believe in race war and white genocide. That black people are genetically predisposed to low IQs and that Islam is a "religion of evil." That immigration from non-white countries is a plague and a threat to "western civilization." 14 words and all that.
There's nothing wrong with calling them what they are. Nazis don't deserve to live comfortable lives. They don't deserve to be treated like respectable people who simply have different but otherwise perfectly valid political views.
Name three people who fit this profile that you would call a Nazi and are in a position of political or economic power in America.
The unarguably actual White Nationalists turning out in Washington for the 250th celebration of "the first White POTUS" certainly agree.
* https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2026/7/5/aje-onl-nf...
* https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-fir...
Sorry, the dems have lost it.
And yes, the crazy rhetoric matters because it drags the party down and Trump wins.
Because I'll point it out again, and doubtless be ignored again - there is nothing approaching "socialism" anywhere near the mainstream of the Democratic Party. The Democrats supported Israel. The Democrats don't support abolishing prisons. The Democrats, despite propaganda to the contrary, have never wanted to "abolish" the border. Biden and Obama were both aggressive in their border policies. Hell, Biden tried to fund part of Trump's border wall in 2023.
The only people who are turned off by the Democrats because they're "too socialist" are people who were never going to vote for them to begin with. Everyone else is pissed that they aren't nearly leftist enough.
If you think Biden was tough on the border in the first 3 years, I have a bridge to sell you. It was abundantly clear to anyone that they were paralyzed by the far-left faction who wanted them to do nothing. And that is why the crossings surged until year 3, when they realized how doing nothing was gonna cost them the election. There was absolutely nothing aggressive about that. If you can't even see that, I can't explain more complicated topics to you.
Again, there are many people (myself included) who reject this socialism nonsense. And yes, it costs them votes, even if not in your college dorm group.
You're gloating like the Democrats didn't win the popular vote entirely in 2016, didn't win the actual vote in 2020, and the margins weren't razor thin in 2024. Like 51 to 49 is a blowout. Get your head checked, buddy.
And no electorate has been shamed harder that Trump voters at this point.
Really, it's like talking to a Markov chain with you people sometimes.
You need to look up the definition of the word "contradiction." Kamala being too far right and being too black and female isn't a contradiction. And I assume your suggestion for winning elections is, unsurprisingly, be white, be a man and be a right-winger. I'll put that suggestion in the big pile of suggestions that the left only needs to abandon its principles entirely to get anywhere, which you and others like you have so helpfully offered.
>If you think Biden was tough on the border in the first 3 years, I have a bridge to sell you. It was abundantly clear to anyone that they were paralyzed by the far-left faction who wanted them to do nothing.
Again, you're just spouting right-wing propaganda here. It's wild that I'm in this thread with someone named "enragebait" and you're the one showing their ass.
> I can't explain more complicated topics to you.
And there's the personal attack, right on schedule.
>Again, there are many people (myself included) who reject this socialism nonsense.
Given your espoused opinions, you were never going to vote for a Democrat to begin with, so yours is not a vote that was cost. So your opinion isn't really relevant, and can be written off without consideration.
I'm done. Good night.
Were you alive during that time? I honestly can't tell if you are trolling or just dumb. The border was complete chaos and cost the dems the election. You cannot possibly be this ignorant.
You continue to throw people out of your tent and then try to shame them. You clearly do it for some virtue signaling reason, because it certainly hasn't helped your side win.
You seem to take it as a good thing that you keep losing to Trump by only a little. If your side can't beat Donald Trump I just have no idea what to tell you. Please go touch grass and talk to the medium American voter. Then you'll realize how out-of-touch you really are.
On the race thing... you do the DSA thing, yet again. There are many many non-white, female leaders in politics. Blaming the loss on that is silly and reductive. Do better. It's also insulting to those already in power.
What’s a good example?
Here's an article: https://atmos.earth/political-landscapes/did-kamala-harris-d...