Better yet, build a domestic product for government use and tightly regulate and oversee it so that you can be sure it's being used lawfully, only when needed for government use, and only when necessary. Democratic nations have power over their government but not over corporations. I know which one I'd rather have ruling over me and spying on my every move.
> ... build a domestic product for government use and tightly regulate and oversee it ...
Government to tightly regulate and oversee itself, I perceive.
> Democratic nations have power over their government but not over corporations.
Democratic governments and corporations have been around about as many centuries, and both have long ago perfected techniques to make sure the people have no direct power over either of them, often in tandem. That said, it seems remarkable that you're less anxious about the partner in this age-old dance that has the warplanes and myriads of armed enforcers.
I mean no public strategy should include secret bills, Palantir or no Palantir.
If you're idealogically opposed to Palantir, how will a home-grown Palantir help? It would likely do the same things Palantir does but with a Canadian Alex Karp
Well there's a clear difference between a creepy company spying on you and a creepy company closely aligned with a government that has threatened to annex you spying on you.
There likely isn't a Canadian Alex Karp. Karp is a unique byproduct of American culture. The specific brand of arrogance, hunger for war, and callous disregard for human life, all in service of a right wing ideological project, is simply not as present in Canada because Canada is a middle power with more liberal values who prefer diplomacy over war.
I appreciate that you think so highly of Canada, but no. There are still plenty of people that fit that description born in Canada.
I think the main thing is they all move to California or New York as soon as they can, because they can't achieve their sociopath ambitions as easily here.
I think you can't really measure a country's approach to war unless that country is already quite powerful. This is the reason that it's said that power corrupts. It's easy to have good values when it's difficult to have bad values, or there is minimal benefit to such. But give a man (or country) tremendous power, and suddenly having bad values can be immensely rewarding on short to medium time scales.
He fills a niche, particularly successfully ,but the required substrate exists in every society. In societies that superficially reward other qualities, these people mold themselves to fill other niches that provide power: politics, tech, press. When the niche appears in Canada, or Germany, or the UK, these people will come out of the woodworks wearing whatever face they need to at the time.
Granted, America's been leading on encouraging the worse angels of our nature for the last, what, 70 years? But these personalities exist everywhere.
It's pretty obvious this comment didn't come from a Canadian. Because if it was, you'd know that Palantir is elbow-deep in the Trump administration, the same one that has repeatedly threatened to annex Canada. That is not a threat to be taken lightly, and the Canadian public agrees, which is why the trump-opposing Liberal party is currently enjoying a parliamentary majority. A more relevant question would be "Why would anyone with Canada's interests in mind even consider Palantir in the first place?"
> Palantir is elbow-deep in the Trump administration, the same one that has repeatedly threatened to annex Canada. That is not a threat to be taken lightly, and the Canadian public agrees
Are they making any preparations for war, at all, that they weren't also doing in 2021?
Did the US make any preparations for war before abducting Maduro from Venezuela or before getting into a war with Iran that cost them freedom of passage in the Strait of Hormuz?
Right up until Russia invaded Ukraine, Russia maintained that, no, that troop buildup wasn't meant as an invasion force, and a good chunk of the world believed Russia because it was a moronic idea to invade Ukraine. Trump is far more moronic and power drunk than Putin, and would perhaps not even organize troops befre invading Canada, all because somebody in the inner circle goaded Trump into it.
You are being rude and condescending to a third party, when I think you meant to be rude and condescending to me.
You comment was ambiguous, using pronouns with multiple referents. I chose the referring that was the most charitable possible interpretation of your ambiguous comment. Your intended point is even more obviously wrong.
I'd say yes. Things like increased military spending (largest since the end of the cold war, 2% of gdp), buying non-US weapon systems (like saab globaleye, instead of u.s. awacs), exploring other alliances (with Europe and China), and lessoning dependencies on US companies (like Palantir). It's a process. A difficult process. And a balancing act.
Are you saying the Candian public doesn't care about Trumps threats to annex Canada?
Because it’s a company with no ethics beyond “might makes right,” owned by a person of dubious sanity who travels around the world to warn anyone who’ll listen about how the Antichrist is bad for their business.
Why would anyone in their right minds do business with a company like that?
To be fair the Antichrist, being a prophesied entity from several millennia ago, is probably not super up to date on twenty-first-century business best practices. They probably still use waterfall.
There is a fantastic book to be written about the Antichrist finally rising to lay waste to the world, only to be astounded by air travel, the internet, etc. A demonic horde of a thousand flaming knights riding through Rome is largely written off as a new burning man thing, etc.
The Antichrist is NOT a prophesied entity. There is no, "the Antichrist". Antichrist isn't even mentioned in the Book of Revelation.
Antichrist is only mentioned in the 1st and 2nd letters of John, where it refers to many antichrists (1 John 2:18), who are identifiable because they deny the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22), and that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The term simply means, 'against Christ', so anyone who is against Christ could be labelled such, even if they didn't match the description in 1st and 2nd John.
So antichrists existed when these letters of John were written and an innumerable number of them have existed over the past 2,000 years and exist even today. While antichrists would likely continue to exist while the events in Revelation occur, they are not described as having any role in the events described in Revelation.
The reason people link antichrist to the beast or false prophet in Revelation is not due to the writings in the New Testament stating that there is a link. It is more that any being who is against Christ, including those in Revelation, are likely to deny the Father and the Son and deny that Jesus came in the flesh, so, it isn't difficult to find numerous antichrists throughout the past 2,000 years that Christians could identify as being an antichrist and since, for each generation, their time was, to them, the end of time, because the future hadn't happened yet, it was easy for them to think of these antichrists as potentially being the beast or false prophet of the end times described in Revelation.
Over time, this traditional link between antichrist and the beast or false prophet became very strong, in spite of not being stated in scripture and more tradition has grown up around linking antichrist with the beast or false prophet, creating traditions upon traditions, upon traditions, not of which is substantiated by scripture or any other early writings from the Christian community.
Canada and domestic product simply not possible
The only two countries who can run domestic products of this kind are USA and China . The rest is just gimmick or a lie.
The sovereign initiative in Canada is laughable, most if not all critical infrastructure are 100% relying on US cloud products, from the usuals like MS and google all the way to cybersecurity and other products, and we are not even talking about supply chains and the likes. So practically speaking, the US can in a click, turn off Canada’s grid and banking, in minutes without a single bullet, the country will collapse. That’s why whenever I see all that buzz words of “sovereign xyz” I know it’s a just a way to funnel tax money back to some companies or programs, without having so much questions about it.
There’re no steps taken, when I brought it to different managers in both utilities and banking, they laughed and some even rolled their eyes, because everything (and I mean everything from operations to hr to all) is built on top of these products, no way to rebuild the multi billions company from scratch and train the employees on a whole new systems only to find out they are not reliable or at least not how they used to do their work.
For example in some power utility companies, to install few auxiliary sensors to monitor xyz only in a pilot project is a 3 years work.. upgrading old 3G modems is done in stages over years just not to interrupt the operations, and all of these are terminal devices, not core or servers where a tiny mistake in that foundation migration will send the city to dark ages.
I don't think there's a government in the world, including the US, that should allow Palantir anywhere near their data or systems. I consider Palantir a national security threat. I also feel this way about McKinsey (and Bain, BCG, etc).
I also think any form of platform AI usage to be a national security threat in the absence of stringent controls over that data and the platform. At some point I think governments and companies will wake up to this and demand local LLMs or, in the very least, a cloud platform within their jurisdiction, ownership and control.
The 1980s and 1990s ushered in this idea of "small government", privatization and public-private partnerships that I think was a huge mistake with catastrophic consequences. It's simply letting the foxes into the hen house. It leads to regulatory capture, a revolving door and a massive government-to-private wealth transfer.
What's funny is that a lot of this stems from a now throughly debunked idea of the "tragedy of the commons" [1].
I don’t know the specifics of this case, but in Canada, calls like this (all wrapped up in the flag), usually come from Canadian companies hoping for some sort of sole sourced contract that they have no business getting.
So so perhaps we should be excluding American companies at this time, but in the name of competition and openness, we should allow bids from our real allies, such as the Europeans or the Asians.
China is the most sensible current superpower. They are barely communist at all since Deng and have a better recent track record in terms of maintaining global trade. And at least in recent years they are probably the least worst super power in terms of imprisoning minorities.
The recent real war crimes of the US-Israeli entity are only comparable to the fake war crimes they conveniently accuse their opponents of while carrying out the real war crimes.
For example, it's okay to butcher 160 Iranian school girls because Iran just butchered 100,000 innocent protestors in a single day (trust me bro).
They are no longer communist. Its state controlled capitalism with a tendency to personality cult, racism, and the destruction of minorities and the systematic destruction of minority cultures.
"America or not" is a red herring. Palantir is the specific problem.
The kind of people running these companies don't have true allegiance to anything but their own objectives. If necessary, they'd move all operations to Europe or East Asia in a month, and you'd have "Palantir 2" under a different name with no better ethics or privacy.
Increased emphasis has to be on running things domestically with on-premises hardware. As long as the vendor is elsewhere and not subject to oversight, the risks remain.
Canada and Europe call for banning American companies in their the name of America Threatening to go apeshit and do stupid stuff: upvoted and praised as necessary.
America tries that for stupid xenophobic reasons, gets called stupid or xenophobic.
Yes, intent matters. Call the police on the crack house next door, neighbors celebrate you. Call the police to harass the Black people door, neighbors shun you.
Palantir is giving me "Samaritan" vibes from the show: "Person of Interest".
For the ones who haven't watched this amazing show, here is a small Google AI summary:
Samaritan is the primary antagonist of the later seasons of the sci-fi series Person of Interest. It is a fictional, totalitarian artificial superintelligence created by Arthur Claypool. Unlike its counterpart, the Machine, Samaritan has no moral constraints, viewing human free will as a flaw requiring aggressive control and mass surveillance
The idea we're going to stop people like special forces and intelligence buying the software they want to run on on prem, air gapped stacks that they control in the name of sovereignty is silly.
67 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 61.2 ms ] threadGovernment to tightly regulate and oversee itself, I perceive.
> Democratic nations have power over their government but not over corporations.
Democratic governments and corporations have been around about as many centuries, and both have long ago perfected techniques to make sure the people have no direct power over either of them, often in tandem. That said, it seems remarkable that you're less anxious about the partner in this age-old dance that has the warplanes and myriads of armed enforcers.
If you're idealogically opposed to Palantir, how will a home-grown Palantir help? It would likely do the same things Palantir does but with a Canadian Alex Karp
Neither are great, but one is worse.
I think the main thing is they all move to California or New York as soon as they can, because they can't achieve their sociopath ambitions as easily here.
Granted, America's been leading on encouraging the worse angels of our nature for the last, what, 70 years? But these personalities exist everywhere.
Are they making any preparations for war, at all, that they weren't also doing in 2021?
Right up until Russia invaded Ukraine, Russia maintained that, no, that troop buildup wasn't meant as an invasion force, and a good chunk of the world believed Russia because it was a moronic idea to invade Ukraine. Trump is far more moronic and power drunk than Putin, and would perhaps not even organize troops befre invading Canada, all because somebody in the inner circle goaded Trump into it.
> in response to a comment about the US threatening to annex Canada
Work on your ability to determine what a sentence has in focus and what it doesn't.
You comment was ambiguous, using pronouns with multiple referents. I chose the referring that was the most charitable possible interpretation of your ambiguous comment. Your intended point is even more obviously wrong.
Are you saying the Candian public doesn't care about Trumps threats to annex Canada?
Was this a serious question, or just boring contrarianism?
https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/palantir-posted-a-manifest...
https://www.newsweek.com/us-draft-update-major-tech-company-...
Why would anyone in their right minds do business with a company like that?
Antichrist is only mentioned in the 1st and 2nd letters of John, where it refers to many antichrists (1 John 2:18), who are identifiable because they deny the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22), and that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The term simply means, 'against Christ', so anyone who is against Christ could be labelled such, even if they didn't match the description in 1st and 2nd John.
So antichrists existed when these letters of John were written and an innumerable number of them have existed over the past 2,000 years and exist even today. While antichrists would likely continue to exist while the events in Revelation occur, they are not described as having any role in the events described in Revelation.
The reason people link antichrist to the beast or false prophet in Revelation is not due to the writings in the New Testament stating that there is a link. It is more that any being who is against Christ, including those in Revelation, are likely to deny the Father and the Son and deny that Jesus came in the flesh, so, it isn't difficult to find numerous antichrists throughout the past 2,000 years that Christians could identify as being an antichrist and since, for each generation, their time was, to them, the end of time, because the future hadn't happened yet, it was easy for them to think of these antichrists as potentially being the beast or false prophet of the end times described in Revelation.
Over time, this traditional link between antichrist and the beast or false prophet became very strong, in spite of not being stated in scripture and more tradition has grown up around linking antichrist with the beast or false prophet, creating traditions upon traditions, upon traditions, not of which is substantiated by scripture or any other early writings from the Christian community.
For example in some power utility companies, to install few auxiliary sensors to monitor xyz only in a pilot project is a 3 years work.. upgrading old 3G modems is done in stages over years just not to interrupt the operations, and all of these are terminal devices, not core or servers where a tiny mistake in that foundation migration will send the city to dark ages.
I also think any form of platform AI usage to be a national security threat in the absence of stringent controls over that data and the platform. At some point I think governments and companies will wake up to this and demand local LLMs or, in the very least, a cloud platform within their jurisdiction, ownership and control.
The 1980s and 1990s ushered in this idea of "small government", privatization and public-private partnerships that I think was a huge mistake with catastrophic consequences. It's simply letting the foxes into the hen house. It leads to regulatory capture, a revolving door and a massive government-to-private wealth transfer.
What's funny is that a lot of this stems from a now throughly debunked idea of the "tragedy of the commons" [1].
[1]: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2015/03...
So so perhaps we should be excluding American companies at this time, but in the name of competition and openness, we should allow bids from our real allies, such as the Europeans or the Asians.
Oh and Premier Xi lives under your bed.
It's amazing how fast everyone forgot about Xinjiang. These things don't stop simply because journalists get bored.
Havent forgotten. Its not that China got better, its that its competitors got worse.
For example, it's okay to butcher 160 Iranian school girls because Iran just butchered 100,000 innocent protestors in a single day (trust me bro).
The kind of people running these companies don't have true allegiance to anything but their own objectives. If necessary, they'd move all operations to Europe or East Asia in a month, and you'd have "Palantir 2" under a different name with no better ethics or privacy.
Increased emphasis has to be on running things domestically with on-premises hardware. As long as the vendor is elsewhere and not subject to oversight, the risks remain.
America tries that for valid reasons (unfair subsidies, human or labor rights violations, BYD): get called fascist or stupid
America tries that for stupid xenophobic reasons, gets called stupid or xenophobic.
This shouldn’t be surprising.
For the ones who haven't watched this amazing show, here is a small Google AI summary:
Samaritan is the primary antagonist of the later seasons of the sci-fi series Person of Interest. It is a fictional, totalitarian artificial superintelligence created by Arthur Claypool. Unlike its counterpart, the Machine, Samaritan has no moral constraints, viewing human free will as a flaw requiring aggressive control and mass surveillance