I was just going to say this. Been using Gmail daily since 2004 or so and I can count on one hand how many problems I've had. Stellar record, though as I said I am too dependent on it personally.
Ditto, although both of my accounts are on "Apps". Not had Chrome crash either, although I never use Syncing because I just don't trust Google to get it right..
Given the massive scale of Gmail and the infrastructure of Google, it's highly unlikely that the entire audience of Hacker News sitting and pressing F5 every second would hurt Google's ability to bring it back up.
I don't know, if there's one thing that seems more ignorant/oblivious than the idea that HN will somehow magically DDoS GMail, it's complaining about downvotes on HN. :P
Is this affecting Chrome as well? Looks like it might be a bigger problem. It just crashed for three guys in our office within a few seconds of each other.
+1. Chrome crashed once for me, and it had an interesting error message. Something along the lines of "Wahhhh!!! Chrome crashed! Would you like to restart?"
+1, Chrome on Windows 7 64-bit. Started to crash every minute just around the time GMail was down. It stopped crashing after I rebooted my machine - I don't know if it is related or just a coincidence; just giving a data point.
Wonder what the difference is? I don't sync among devices, but for the people that it did crash for do you sync among devices? Maybe that has something to do with it?
I was able to reproduce the crash once by adding a bookmark, which probably forces a sync. Gmail came back up for me, though, so I'm not able to test this again.
Chrome is also crashing for me. It gives this error - Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library/ Runtime Error! / Program: C:\User... "This application has requested the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way" / "Please contact the application's support team for more information."
It may be region specific, it's still down for me.
I've noticed that Hacker News seems slower since gmail went down. I'd be interested to know how traffic responded. I'm guessing a lot of people default to HN if they hit a roadblock in their work. I know I do.
Wha ... how ... why would browser performance be coupled to performance of one particular site? Firefox, Opera, even IE don't crash when they're offline and unable to connect to any site.
Chrome also starting crashing 30-or-so minutes ago, on a OS X 10.8.1, Chrome version 23.0.1271.95. I just had my Facebook account open in that window, but it continued crashing by itself after 5 minutes. GMail doesn't work , too, from neither FF nor Chrome, it does though from my iPhone (different web provider, I wonder if that counts).
It was general for gtalk.
I was chatting with my girlfriend in Paris and I'm in Montreal right know.
Both gtalk stopped working and we finish the discussion on Skype.
Interestingly the bug links to 163267, which is marked private (i.e. a security issue). I've had more downtime out of Google in the past few years than I ever did out of my Yahoo mailbox.
As soon as Yahoo shows me my inbox instead of an ad when I sign in, I'd consider going back. Until then, all the wasted time clicking away from the ad cancels any extra uptime. Luckily I've heard Marissa is actually pushing for this change :)
I tried outlook.com for a while after the launch, but I just can't go back to the folder system. Tag & archive is now a requirement for any future email service I'll use.
I thought Chromium still had all the google tie-in issue. If I remember correctly what they pulled out was license encumbered features like font rendering. I know there were forks like iron that pull out the privacy features.
No crash here, using Chromium ver 22.0.1190.0, compiled from source. However, GMail is extremely slow. Have been able to refresh (and access) it 3 times in the past 5 minutes.
My Chrome is continually crashing here on a MacBook Pro Retina as well. Even just visiting unrelated sites like Android Market and others. I assume it is trying to sync my pages to my account, or pull down URL malware black lists or something, hitting the same error GMail is hitting, and crashing.
Just to add some data: Did not crash for me. I am using sync and I have two gmail tabs open. However gmail has continued to work for me, only the chat has had some issues.
I run my own mail server, but it's far from justifiable on a pure uptime basis. I don't have HA configured, so my mail (which serves <10 users on a box in colo) goes down for 2-3 minutes ~4-10 times per year when I reboot. Even worse, I don't really announce downtimes, but just randomly reboot it late at night if I've upgraded something important.
That's best-case. I have backup-mx, but no real failover for imap or normal smtp (other than reading mailspool directly on the backup mx). I used to do a crazy flood-fill thing with 3 servers smtp forwarding mail and marking it, but doing mail HA correctly is kind of hard (and then keeping mailstore synced from imap in sync, too).
How well would glusterfs work across the Internet? Doing local HA with some kind of SAN seems fine, but the thing I'm trying to solve is "entire datacenter goes down, make the user have no more pain than making a new imap connection". It seems like something that would really need to be handled inside IMAP (using some crazy backing store for mail, like a database) to be done well, but maybe filesystem level replication with maildir would be enough.
I wish there were some "best practices in systems administration" for different services, ranging from simple (just set up imap/dovecot) through complex (gmail-scale), per service.
There's been pretty good focus on how to do http, dns, and some database services, but not as much recently on smtp, imap, etc.
"One must require from each one the duty which each one can perform," the king
went on. "Accepted authority rests first of all on reason. If you ordered your people
to go and throw themselves into the sea, they would rise up in revolution. I have the
right to require obedience because my orders are reasonable."
"Then my sunset?" the little prince reminded him: for he never forgot a question once
he had asked it.
"You shall have your sunset. I shall command it. But, according to my science of
government, I shall wait until conditions are favorable."
"When will that be?" inquired the little prince.
"Hum! Hum!" replied the king; and before saying anything else he consulted a bulky
almanac. "Hum! Hum! That will be about--about--that will be this evening about twenty
minutes to eight. And you will see how well I am obeyed!"
I think what he's trying to say is his downtime is planned - kernel upgrades, configuration changes, that sort of thing.
This is both somewhat true and somewhat not true. He's still vulnerable to failure of the hosting equipment and attacks from crackers. But, when he's the only admin, there's nobody else to fat-finger the server out of action, and if he only logs into the shell for service he will never fat-finger outside of planned service.
Hardware breakages and Zero-Day exploits usually tend to show up at most inconvenient times. I'd recommend everybody to not own an email server from a pure business perspective, unless you're a mail server admin anyways. There's so much time you can sink in it and still not achieve the level of security and uptime a quality email host will reach for much less money.
Now, there are arguments to run your own mailserver - you get to configure it exactly the way you want, you might see it as a hobby, ... But from a pure financial point of view it doesn't make sense.
I know what he meant, but it's not like google is improvising with gmail. The site is already up by the way, it's been years since they have a more than 5 minute downtime. Also, you can never dream of having the same kind of redundancy as gmail will have nor the collective man hours spent in the project. I don't hate the idea of self hosting your mail, I just think it's ridiculous to say you'll have a better service than gmail when you have much better arguments like privacy, control and ownership.
Availability covers data loss and account cancellations out of the blue, which has happened to a friend of mine at least. this is one of the reasons I self host.
Also, the machine is in the same lan as me so connectivity is never a problem (unless the cat chews through the ethernet cables again).
So you have redundant internet connections, back-up power generators, a high availability cluster, etc? That seems like a lot of money just to host your own mail server.
- I've run my home server. They would crash randomly and usually when something else in the house like a water heater had broken.
- I've run pay servers in the cloud. Then they magically disappear because the expiration date on my credit card updated and the best way for GoDaddy to tell me was to wipe it and then send me an email.
- I've tried free servers. I got what I paid for.
Whatever problems GMail has (and it does have problems), it's not those. Absolutely everything else has left a taste of ashes in my mouth.
Pay for servers from someone other than GoDaddy--almost anyone else, really. Home servers are a really bad solution for anything remotely important, but shared hosting from the likes of Dreamhost, VPS from a company like Linode, or EC2 instances from Amazon are all fast, reliable, and cheap.
I don't mind paying, but what happens if there is a disruption in payment methods? I'm busy, and I'm also spread very thin on "things I can concentrate on." If my credit card expires without me noticing, I don't want all code and data on the VPS to vanish on me.
Your credit card expiring will presumably cause problems with more than one service; I recommend trying really hard to keep track of that date. (There must be a calendar you can put it in?) Most good hosts will disconnect you before wiping your drive, and will send you several emails (over the course of months) before that happens. But if whatever you're doing now works, even better!
Meh, I've had my Gmail for a little over 6 years now. This is the first time I ever remember having this problem. (My Gmail is back up now, by the way.) I'll take this frequency over the effort it takes to maintain my own mail server any day.
Servers and services are not the same thing. I always had more than one machine, each in different geographical areas. Shell scripts kept mail stores in sync, and stupid DNS tricks were used to direct users to servers that were alive. The overall costs were low too. I'd convince the ISP I was working for to let me colocate a pair of old desktops, and trade one with a friend I'd never met face to face.
To clarify my other statement, the biggest "issue" i've had is during a failure of the primary MX messages marked as read would sometimes revert back to being unread for a few minutes.
I use gmail via IMAP on mutt and it still works fine, although the Web UI is giving 502 and other various errors. I guess it's just an issue with the front-end, not the mail server itself.
So your web mail interface is always down... I'm still sending and receiving Google Apps mail through IMAP, so we're currently at parity (except I've never had to manage my email server or deal with spam).
I switched from hosting my own server and using local mail providers to Gmail since they had never been able to provide sufficient reliability (uptime, spam filtering, mail delivery). I use, however, Gmail with my own domain name since I want to be able to change to another provider if necessary.
I think more appropriate link would be http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4821928. Gmail downtime is still negligible WRT maintaining your own mail server. But the problem is the downtime of ecosystem built around it.
I love google products (and I'm not worried about my email for a second), but their explanation is really bad:
"The problem with Google Mail should be resolved. We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience and continued support. Please rest assured that system reliability is a top priority at Google, and we are making continuous improvements to make our systems better."
It sounds like something an airline might say after bumping you to another flight!
321 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 283 ms ] threadStill no update
It must be server/account specific.
These "OMG GOOGLE IS DOWN" is the geek equivalant of "THE INTERNET IS DOWN" when Jane Officeworker can't get to msn.com.
(P.S. Poe's Law)
<edit> an both are back at 12:17pm EST</edit>
Edit: Nobody was using Gmail at any point.
Edit: Looks like Chrome Sync is causing the crashes.
Wonder what the difference is? I don't sync among devices, but for the people that it did crash for do you sync among devices? Maybe that has something to do with it?
Crashed Thread: 21 Chrome_SyncThread
was on the crash log.
EDIT: A colleague is seeing it too.
Edit: I had Chrome Sync enabled on both. Seems more stable with syncing disabled.
It looks like mail.google.com is back though. I guess I opened them after the issue was fixed.
I've noticed that Hacker News seems slower since gmail went down. I'd be interested to know how traffic responded. I'm guessing a lot of people default to HN if they hit a roadblock in their work. I know I do.
This is very bad.
Edit: no crashes since I signed out of sync
Edit2: found a more complete stack trace by somebody else: https://gist.github.com/4251938
Bug Report: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=165171
edit: Gmail works fine for me in Denmark, maybe it is only a regional outage?
If she wanted it done, it'd already be done.
While you are on that page, enable SSL by default: Turn on SSL: Check "Make your Yahoo! Mail more secure with SSL"
Chat seems to be offline - mail works
Maybe this is a sign that they're too tightly integrated.
Not that everything I do is bugless, but separation of concerns isn't a swear word.
Using dev build from canada.
Thread from the other day:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4886236
There's been pretty good focus on how to do http, dns, and some database services, but not as much recently on smtp, imap, etc.
This is both somewhat true and somewhat not true. He's still vulnerable to failure of the hosting equipment and attacks from crackers. But, when he's the only admin, there's nobody else to fat-finger the server out of action, and if he only logs into the shell for service he will never fat-finger outside of planned service.
Now, there are arguments to run your own mailserver - you get to configure it exactly the way you want, you might see it as a hobby, ... But from a pure financial point of view it doesn't make sense.
Also, the machine is in the same lan as me so connectivity is never a problem (unless the cat chews through the ethernet cables again).
- I've run pay servers in the cloud. Then they magically disappear because the expiration date on my credit card updated and the best way for GoDaddy to tell me was to wipe it and then send me an email.
- I've tried free servers. I got what I paid for.
Whatever problems GMail has (and it does have problems), it's not those. Absolutely everything else has left a taste of ashes in my mouth.
I don't mind paying, but what happens if there is a disruption in payment methods? I'm busy, and I'm also spread very thin on "things I can concentrate on." If my credit card expires without me noticing, I don't want all code and data on the VPS to vanish on me.
Going on 11 years here with no real issues.
Define "no real issues" cos I would define GMail going down for some users in parts of the world for a short period of time as "no real issue".
To clarify my other statement, the biggest "issue" i've had is during a failure of the primary MX messages marked as read would sometimes revert back to being unread for a few minutes.
Why? There are Free webmail solution you can install on your own servers.
The reason I host my own mail because I want to own and control my data.
"The problem with Google Mail should be resolved. We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience and continued support. Please rest assured that system reliability is a top priority at Google, and we are making continuous improvements to make our systems better."
It sounds like something an airline might say after bumping you to another flight!
http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&ts=13...
EDIT: Thanks @mpeg for pointing out that this is a different outage. Still yucky copy though.
So far it only says "We're investigating reports of an issue with Google Mail. We will provide more information shortly."