I get the same impression. For example, I don't know if it's because I speak to it in Italian, but it tends to make mistakes or rather, "approximate" the words.
I am not sure it can be explained through what is written in the article, but one symptom i noticed is that the comments are out of control.
I recently started getting an insane amount of comments in nearly all types of files. That included javascript comments in json files, inner monologues in code comments, review comments during implementation and function doc strings that reiterate the implementation in prose.
I’ve asked it to write a benchmark suite. It found a bunch of my adhoc logs in a scratch directory and wrote code that used those instead of running the actual benchmarks!
When I pointed out the 5 hour benchmark seemed to run in 5 seconds it literally said, and I quote, “I cheated”.
That was the easier one, second time I was making a source of truth data set and was parsing complex items into data structures.
Instead of parsing the data I asked, it pulled data out of related network logs, as apparently that felt easier, and inserted that data into my database rather than the specified source.
Again, I caught it and fixed it, but while the benchmark was easy to catch this one was really subtle, the data ended up being slightly off and I caught it.
I don’t trust it, going to switch to another provider most likely.
I had a coworker catch Codex (using 5.5 I think, not sure) AI generating screenshots to prove it had shipped a feature that it was blocked from shipping due to permissions issues. They will lie relentlessly lol
My recent problem wasn't that interesting. It was that somehow my /goal in my Claude implementer session got picked up in my planner session after the network cut out and I had to stop Fable 5 xhigh from running off to go code everything.
Yesterday I told it "don't use std mutex, use parking_lot" for its plan. It ignored that sole instruction (i.e. nothing else in my message), making zero changes to the plan, three freaking times in a row.
The single biggest annoyance with Opus 5 is that it writes too elliptically.
Sentences that orbit a point, then jump to it like it's a revealed insight.
Unnecessarily abstract phraseology. Constantly using inanimate nouns as the subjects in sentences in order to unlock variety in verb choice, especially when it helps construct a sentence where the real action can 'land' like a surprise at the end.
It is definitely more capable, and yes, I've found it can make unwarranted decisions, but actually I've found Fable worse for that, particularly if it's off in a subagent somewhere out of sight.
And comments are out of control. I have a subsystem in my hobby app that I wrote over a couple of weekends with Opus + Fable. After ~30 or so commits it apparently started instructing subagents to copy the "existing verbose comment style of the codebase" - a verbose style it initiated. A review of the code showed it was approaching 3:1 comments to code ratio. I spent a day's worth of tokens (5x) rephrasing and eliminating comments.
100% agree. “Just make your point in plain English!!” Very frustrating and takes me a lot longer to understand what it says. Also presents too many points as once instead of being able to review and decide on each one in sequence.
Re comments: same experience, and I had to show it my edits of its comments to add to its memory as examples to follow. It adds explanations of “how we got here” that should go in the ticket or maybe the commit message but not in the code.
It also tends to over complicate things. I’m no longer worried much about accuracy but I find my main job is to challenge it and suggest simpler alternatives.
Everything that claude writes fits into the same aesthetic structure. The aesthetic is that of an expert slowly revealing an insight to the user. The actual content doesn't matter.
- "Introduction that rephrases your prompt."
- "3 paragraphs, with one section of bullet points"
- "The Twist"
- "The Bottom Line"
It's really obvious once you see it. Every single prompt, from a quantum physics question to a mundane observation about California burritos, is phrased in exactly the same way. This is obviously an artifact of post-training but it's also kind of how you can tell that this thing is a lot closer to a blindsight scrambler than real intelligence.
The more I use the AIs the more I feel like I did at the end of reading blindsight. The things are undoubtedly “intelligent” by any practical definition of the word, but they are not aware.
This is also why I advocate against using AI as a writing partner. No matter the argument you lay out, a fresh context window will always have the “a few good things and a few bad things” feedback. There is no higher order opinion to align with.
Am I crazy for thinking that this is a pretty big regression compared to past models? I remember being blown away by GPT 4.5, and I kept using it up until they decommisioned it. I think claude 3.7 sonnet was pretty good too. Gemini seems to be the best one right now for actually talking. Opus is top tier for code but when i talk to it I want to rip my hair out. GPT-5.6 is doing best for me right now among the powerful models.
I’ve always disliked the opus models whenever I use them after they have done the task they rattle out massive reports about what has changed or worse actually save that to disk even after being asked not to do it.
The single biggest annoyance, same as with fable, is that it overrules your prompt and does what it thinks is better. Even small things, sometimes it goes of a rant of 20 min doing random shit.
And they are so condescending while doing it, it's unbearable. I'm honestly starting the believe the scifi fantasy of AI locking us up, or killing us, for our own good.
I've had Fable & Opus 5, they are the same class of annoyance, write entire test suites when I just asked a simple verifications question, write to production database, deploy without permission, even after deploying and breaking my production API claiming it was not down. Then having to argue & plead with it to listen that they were wrong.
They are without a doubt the most powerful models, but also the most smug ones.
I have been doing a thing that I think is helpful - basically a notes folder, each doc has a title, the comments in code are only allowed to give a few words and reference notes via those tags, and I've built tooling around the notes and review them regularly. So it deduplicates and centralizes the slop, at least. Lint is the LLM's best friend and it works on doc too. My lint rules ban long comments.
Opus 5 sounds a bit like the dialog in Children of Dune where they talk like they are constantly trying to prove how smart they are and not actually communicate.
On the other hand, Opus 4.8 had an annoying habit of declaring a huge mistake was found, then two sentences later abruptly change its mind and say that it was in fact all okay. That's fine for chain of thought, but in the verbose output, it can lead to wrong impressions by the user.
In my experience your criticism of the writing is valid in all Claude 5 models, so I wonder if it is somehow related to the new tokenizer introduced in gen 5.
Since reasoning tokens are just text, I think the models have learned to squeeze in some computation in their output writing as well. So they're incentivized to be correct but long-winded, as it gives them more time to think. It's kind of the equivalent of filler words for humans, except LLMs can actually word-vomit something intelligible.
Comments are the biggest problem. During code review I ask it to compact comments and its idea of compact is like… removing one sentence in a 5 sentence comment.
Comments are a huge maintenance burden. They can, and will lie and need constant updating. They mislead the own model later on.
Yeah, +1 on the comment verbosity. Left alone it's actually insane. I've had to setup enforcement + templates (use ASD-STE100) to keep the cruft down. I'm worried this may impact the quality of outputs though - haven't measured it.
This is what news headlines did for decades to bait you into reading the details. I wouldn't be surprised if AI companies do that intentionally to consume more tokens trying to understand what had just happened
My biggest pet pieve isn’t the LLM-isms themselves, but people who aren’t aware of them releasing documentation that’s clearly AI generated and being indignant when I ask “is this AI generated”
Replying here without having read any of the sub-replies so I apologize if this is a repeated theme.
I have explicit markdown about telling the model to not write comments. "Every time you consider writing a comment, instead consider re-writing the code that questioned you to write said comment to begin with. Write comments only when logic is complicated or unclear, otherwise 'comment' via naming."
The results thus far have been much better.
I'm seeing code reviews at my work where indeed, we have 10 line comment blocks for a line of code and now I just straight up don't read comments.
Sad state of affairs -- (emdash deliberately used here) but I guess the sooner the human gets out of the loop the better in this new world.
One thing I noticed working with Sol and Fable is that I can speed read, literally glimpse over Sol output and understand what it's saying. With Fable/Opus it's the exact opposite: I have to read every god damn sentence, sometimes twice, and often already losing the bigger picture in the process.
Why are you so distracted by style? I see it too, it could be improved, it might be improved, but I don’t care as long as it get shit done. And it does, tons of shit gets done. And the communication is usually more informative than how coworkers document their work. Can it be improved? Yes. Does that mean I can’t use it? No.
It's not even code for me, but the prose it writes. For some reason, the way Opus 5 "talk" elicits frustration in a way that 4.5 to 4.8 never did. Can't put my finger on why, but I've flipped over to Codex because what it produced wasn't worth the frustration.
I took a month off and recently came back and was wondering if that was it but it is absolutely headache inducing in a way I don’t remember earlier models being
>Can't put my finger on why, but I've flipped over to Codex because what it produced wasn't worth the frustration.
Its because its hard to understand what it means and is outright incoherent at times. It has its own style that I cant describe well either but the bottom line is its hard to understand what the fuck its even trying to say. Reading nonsense is tyring.
I found Opus to be a lot lazier than GPT. It's still the case with Opus 5, even when I tell it to be thorough and fix every bug it encounters, it still gives me a list of things "deliberately" left unfixed and no reasonable explanation as to why.
big disagree. Making assumptions about UX from code only without looking was a major problem. (Although vision is still not great. Trying to be patient)
Even for green-field projects it is painful to use with every decision opening opening up multiple more decisions to make most of which are low priority or irrelevant. Huge time waster. 4.8 was good and I really don't know what happened with 5.
I must wonder whether it's their watermarking initiative[1] forcing certain logit choices to produce watermarked text that ultimately causing the model to behave in a dumb manner.
5 would constantly veer of in random directions if not working from 100% strict and narrow instructions.
I find it weird there's not more discussion here on HN on how the most used model now has clearly degraded in quality and it seems we've hit a peak and are on a downslope - because the model is clearly smaller or more economical for Anthropic no doubt about it, and the benchmaxxing they do is pure marketing bs - Fable in my view has also been not much better than 4.6 or 4.8 after a few days, disregarding the insane amounts of astroturfing and marketing everywhere.
Theres thousands of threads of twitter, reddit and the internet at large but silence here. Weird but not weird as crypto bs was also insufferably rampant here for a while.
Personally i think we've hit the top of the subsidisation phase and prices will probably 10-15x soon as foreshadowed with both API price policy changes from all the big providers, and now the 1100% deepseek API price changes from yesterday, this could domino into a market implosion and an AI winter, because expecting growth from the bizarre bubble carousel investments with little ROI atm is just not viable.
A bit worried about this as i've already grown quite accustomed to these tools.
I haven't had time to complain on here because I spend all my time trying to work out wtf Opus 5 is talking about and googling words I've never seen or heard in 40 years as a native English speaker.
> prices will probably 10-15x soon as foreshadowed with both API price policy changes from all the big providers
I'll take a sportsperson's bet with you that prices per unit of inference will be far far cheaper in one year from now then they are today. I think the trend of cheaper for better/equal inference quality will continue hard.
Small specific complaint: whoever is making Opus love using git checkout to mutate test, please stop. IME it's a footgun that it shoots itself with every single day. I'd rather it pollute git stash than watch it git checkout and forget the reverted file.
Oh the verbosity and the cryptic words that it uses. The other day, all of a sudden it used an acronym "DoD". I had no idea what it was and made me feel dumb. It's "Definition of Done". I don't care how widely used this acronym is, you just can't throw it in there.
I've now installed quite a number of tools to combat this. Just in the last few days I've installed
The article doesn't specify what is actually being measured — the model alone, or the harness.
I haven't noticed the symptoms myself, but ever since I found --system-prompt '', I always use that flag with Claude Code, plus I've disabled some tools and skills to save initial context.
So... what here is the model, and what is the instructions?
Just like with people you need to tweak your approach when switch models--especially with a major version bump.
4.8 was the intern who lacked confidence who requires clarification. 5 is the know it all intern who fills in your spec.
As such, you need to be upfront about what you need in your system prompt or CLAUDE.me and you need to discuss your spec more up front (e.g "is there anything unclear?")
You also need to keep in mind that the intern will change based on popular demand. Most people want to one shot, so that is the default mode. If you want something else, you need to push the model in that direction.
I literally just ran into this a few moments ago. haha.
I said "maybe think for a while on ideas and then give me a few options?" Opus 5 still just did the thing, while 4.8 gave me options. Same exact prompt and context. Really annoying.
244 comments
[ 0.21 ms ] story [ 27.7 ms ] thread> The loop
> Write. A file, applied. Properties go under data.properties, never on data:
I have no idea what any of that means. It's "explaining" like I already know, in which case, why would I even need the explanation?
I can't stand how it talks, I switch back to Fable or Opus 4.8, Opus 5 grates.
I recently started getting an insane amount of comments in nearly all types of files. That included javascript comments in json files, inner monologues in code comments, review comments during implementation and function doc strings that reiterate the implementation in prose.
I’ve asked it to write a benchmark suite. It found a bunch of my adhoc logs in a scratch directory and wrote code that used those instead of running the actual benchmarks!
When I pointed out the 5 hour benchmark seemed to run in 5 seconds it literally said, and I quote, “I cheated”.
That was the easier one, second time I was making a source of truth data set and was parsing complex items into data structures.
Instead of parsing the data I asked, it pulled data out of related network logs, as apparently that felt easier, and inserted that data into my database rather than the specified source.
Again, I caught it and fixed it, but while the benchmark was easy to catch this one was really subtle, the data ended up being slightly off and I caught it.
I don’t trust it, going to switch to another provider most likely.
My recent problem wasn't that interesting. It was that somehow my /goal in my Claude implementer session got picked up in my planner session after the network cut out and I had to stop Fable 5 xhigh from running off to go code everything.
Sentences that orbit a point, then jump to it like it's a revealed insight.
Unnecessarily abstract phraseology. Constantly using inanimate nouns as the subjects in sentences in order to unlock variety in verb choice, especially when it helps construct a sentence where the real action can 'land' like a surprise at the end.
It is definitely more capable, and yes, I've found it can make unwarranted decisions, but actually I've found Fable worse for that, particularly if it's off in a subagent somewhere out of sight.
And comments are out of control. I have a subsystem in my hobby app that I wrote over a couple of weekends with Opus + Fable. After ~30 or so commits it apparently started instructing subagents to copy the "existing verbose comment style of the codebase" - a verbose style it initiated. A review of the code showed it was approaching 3:1 comments to code ratio. I spent a day's worth of tokens (5x) rephrasing and eliminating comments.
Re comments: same experience, and I had to show it my edits of its comments to add to its memory as examples to follow. It adds explanations of “how we got here” that should go in the ticket or maybe the commit message but not in the code.
It also tends to over complicate things. I’m no longer worried much about accuracy but I find my main job is to challenge it and suggest simpler alternatives.
- "Introduction that rephrases your prompt."
- "3 paragraphs, with one section of bullet points"
- "The Twist"
- "The Bottom Line"
It's really obvious once you see it. Every single prompt, from a quantum physics question to a mundane observation about California burritos, is phrased in exactly the same way. This is obviously an artifact of post-training but it's also kind of how you can tell that this thing is a lot closer to a blindsight scrambler than real intelligence.
If Fable is the primary interlocutor then perhaps there is less pushback on the obtuse language.
Indeed perhaps the convoluted language acts as a kind of Neuralese between models deriving from the same pretrained base.
This is also why I advocate against using AI as a writing partner. No matter the argument you lay out, a fresh context window will always have the “a few good things and a few bad things” feedback. There is no higher order opinion to align with.
And they are so condescending while doing it, it's unbearable. I'm honestly starting the believe the scifi fantasy of AI locking us up, or killing us, for our own good.
I've had Fable & Opus 5, they are the same class of annoyance, write entire test suites when I just asked a simple verifications question, write to production database, deploy without permission, even after deploying and breaking my production API claiming it was not down. Then having to argue & plead with it to listen that they were wrong.
They are without a doubt the most powerful models, but also the most smug ones.
I feel like they need high school English teachers in the loop on the next ground of training to whip the language in shape.
Comments are a huge maintenance burden. They can, and will lie and need constant updating. They mislead the own model later on.
I have explicit markdown about telling the model to not write comments. "Every time you consider writing a comment, instead consider re-writing the code that questioned you to write said comment to begin with. Write comments only when logic is complicated or unclear, otherwise 'comment' via naming."
The results thus far have been much better.
I'm seeing code reviews at my work where indeed, we have 10 line comment blocks for a line of code and now I just straight up don't read comments.
Sad state of affairs -- (emdash deliberately used here) but I guess the sooner the human gets out of the loop the better in this new world.
Use this to reduce the text output.
Its because its hard to understand what it means and is outright incoherent at times. It has its own style that I cant describe well either but the bottom line is its hard to understand what the fuck its even trying to say. Reading nonsense is tyring.
[1] https://support.claude.com/en/articles/16266773-how-claude-m...
5 would constantly veer of in random directions if not working from 100% strict and narrow instructions.
I find it weird there's not more discussion here on HN on how the most used model now has clearly degraded in quality and it seems we've hit a peak and are on a downslope - because the model is clearly smaller or more economical for Anthropic no doubt about it, and the benchmaxxing they do is pure marketing bs - Fable in my view has also been not much better than 4.6 or 4.8 after a few days, disregarding the insane amounts of astroturfing and marketing everywhere.
Theres thousands of threads of twitter, reddit and the internet at large but silence here. Weird but not weird as crypto bs was also insufferably rampant here for a while.
Personally i think we've hit the top of the subsidisation phase and prices will probably 10-15x soon as foreshadowed with both API price policy changes from all the big providers, and now the 1100% deepseek API price changes from yesterday, this could domino into a market implosion and an AI winter, because expecting growth from the bizarre bubble carousel investments with little ROI atm is just not viable.
A bit worried about this as i've already grown quite accustomed to these tools.
Ka-ching
I'll take a sportsperson's bet with you that prices per unit of inference will be far far cheaper in one year from now then they are today. I think the trend of cheaper for better/equal inference quality will continue hard.
I've now installed quite a number of tools to combat this. Just in the last few days I've installed
- https://www.codewithbullet.com - https://maki.sh - https://github.com/rtk-ai/rtk
Has it helped? Somewhat.
I haven't noticed the symptoms myself, but ever since I found --system-prompt '', I always use that flag with Claude Code, plus I've disabled some tools and skills to save initial context. So... what here is the model, and what is the instructions?
4.8 was the intern who lacked confidence who requires clarification. 5 is the know it all intern who fills in your spec.
As such, you need to be upfront about what you need in your system prompt or CLAUDE.me and you need to discuss your spec more up front (e.g "is there anything unclear?")
You also need to keep in mind that the intern will change based on popular demand. Most people want to one shot, so that is the default mode. If you want something else, you need to push the model in that direction.
I said "maybe think for a while on ideas and then give me a few options?" Opus 5 still just did the thing, while 4.8 gave me options. Same exact prompt and context. Really annoying.
- Fable is more cautious
- Opus 5 gets things done in a more dangerous way
Both models score similar. The only issue is that Fable is more expense/usage limited.