Is it possible to jump into this with a background as a senior dev or is it too late? I don't know where to get started, would you just look like a junior or entry level candidate by doing that?
Absolutely; I'd check out AI Engineering by Chip Huyen to get a fundamental understanding of the space and do a couple of side projects in the area to get familiar and be able to speak to the nuances of working with LLMs, and that will be enough to start working to transition and apply for relevant roles.
most eng roles at frontier companies don't require prior experience specifically with AI, there's a ton of regular engineering work required to train / serve models
It’s for sure not too late, why would it be? The industry is young and evolving. It’s not even clear what an AI job is exactly, the definition and job titles have been changing a lot
> Will AI replace developers? The Stanford data shows a tilt toward seniority rather than mass displacement: entry for 22 to 25 year olds is suffering, older workers are growing. WEF expects a net gain of 78 million jobs by 2030.
As a 42 years old web developper, this situation gives me headaches. I feel both with new superpowers and dangerously threatened. I feel we will need much less developpers and yet I can imagine some years where a developper will be able to handle much larger projects.
> I feel both with new superpowers and dangerously threatened.
In some ways, having a superpower is not all that great because then you are forced by the prisoner's dilemma to use it. And if you think about it, it comes at a cost: a higher mental strain over a long period of time.
To use a physical analogy: a workout machine at the gym is very likely to assist you in targeting specific muscles compared to just lifting stuff you need to lift, but it also allows you to push that specific muscle group harder and thus increase the chances of injury to that muscle group precisely because it's so targeted. I think AI is like that with the brain.
(I'll add that it's perfectly possible to work out safely at the gym with lots of equipment. But I've spent years at the gym and I've seen a ton of injuries because the temptation to push a specific muscle group hard is there. And, AI is much worse because with AI, there is an economic incentive to push harder, whereas at the gym it's in your best interest to dial back...only sometimes people like to show off to their gym buddies.)
I wonder if LLM's might be closer to the weight belt in terms of lifting? It is a tool that lets you exceed your unassisted limits. If you kept doing the other things you would be no worse for using it, but if you only train with it I am not sure you would be a very well rounded lifter. The weight belt lets you do a few lifts better, at potentially the cost of being weaker than would be required if you did that left unassisted? Might be a bad metaphor honestly.
Aside (shower thought):
A little of a tangent, but I have always felt that the weight belt is kind of odd in that it has become completely accepted to use one for the deadlift and squat. Like, why did we decide that this one form of brace is acceptable but others enhancements are not "real" weightlifting? Why not an incline plane? Why not a pulley?
I'm not at all arguing for or against the usage of the weight belt. I just find it odd that it has become so accepted; seems curious how we decided to draw the line here and not there.
I don't get that experience at all. LLM's both relieve burden and improve speed. The only trouble I have with AI is when I run out.
That, and I miss coding... but... this new thing is its own puzzle, and I still do lots of pseudo-code and such, to talk to the AI, which kind of scratches the itch.
I'm pretty convinced that manual coding will be done by late 2027 for at least webdev. At that point the optimal workflow will be coders controlling agents.
Not too far after it will be coders controlling agents who control agents who do the work.
You must have incredibly low standards for quality if you think manual coding will be finished any time soon, web dev or any.
secondly, using llms well still requires you to be a great programmer. Y'all are losing the plot.
Also, just because its easier to do doesnt mean everyone is suddenly going to want to do it. There's still always going to be only a small percentage of thr world that likes to build things.
Have you seen the code these things produce? Just because it compiles/ runs/ loads does not mean its durable. Its wild you people have these opinions, and it leads me to belive you have no idea what you're talking about.
There is mass dunning kruger due to llms, and people are speaking with way too much authority about things they do not understand. I hate this website.
> As a 42 years old web developper, this situation gives me headaches. I feel both with new superpowers and dangerously threatened. I feel we will need much less developpers and yet I can imagine some years where a developper will be able to handle much larger projects.
I'm your age, and spent the past ~3 years diving head first into AI driven development (after 20 years of work in mostly web and robotics). I was self-employed, and having no employees was a major bottleneck, and not shipping was more dangerous than not reviewing code. So, I've been taking my hands off the wheel for a while, and building systems that enable that workflow.
I got a job this year doing R&D industrial machinery/robotics work. By LOC, I've produced >10x more code per month than the 4-5 developers I replaced, combined.
I don't conflate that 10x code with 10x results, and I know some of y'all take my numbers as a red flag... but... I'm getting better results, faster, alone, than the previous team of 4-5.
I would like to have a resource, or maybe a coalition of companies that sign up and offer jobs that are guaranteed not to use AI. Although it might be true that there are some new jobs that didn't exist before, it would be great for people to band together to create a system that promotes the human element over using AI.
At this point that’s like asking to work at an artisanal hand made goods factory. Not common and I’m not even sure there’s particular demand on the consumer side for artisanal hand crafted code despite the negativity towards AI.
I interview a lot of larping 'AI engineers' that either vibe coded a side project or were involved in low stakes pilots
Irl theres a short list of companies that actually build / apply ai at scale. for people trying to break in its usually not expected to have experience with it, just don't lie about it
What's the best way to get into any kind of frontier training or inference? Obviously OpenAI and Anthropic would be great, but I would love to work at inference literally anywhere. LLMs are super cool and I want more systems problems. Or is the boat sailed and it's too hard to get in?
My current issue is that solo learning and bootstrapping is hella expensive money wise and my current job doesn't pay that much either.
> AI Engineer. Number one on LinkedIn Jobs on the Rise in the US two years running, number one at Robert Half. About 1,550 new US postings a week, median 176,000 dollars. This is the engineer who puts LLMs into products: RAG, agents, fine-tuning, evaluation.
I'm doing all those things. The RAG work was interesting, but putting it on my resume has done nothing. Nobody is hiring. I have recent multi-year FAANG experience too. Before 2023 I could blast out 10 resumes and get at least 8 or so hits with multiple offers. Now I can send out 100 resumes and lucky if I get a single rejection letter. I am seeing the same thing reported by other white-collar working people like HR reps and project managers in all industries. There is definitely a stealth recession/depression scenario playing out right now and has been for at least the last two years.
> That is exactly what working with small and mid-size businesses looks like: find the process where AI pays off, build the agent or the integration, and get it to the people who will use it.
This is exactly right.
I’m making good side money from building and integrating “AI” with small business tools.
Custom CRMs and tracking solutions so they don’t have to buy salesforce etc…
Notably this doesn’t reliably work for juniors, which supports the article.
You need to already have experience making enterprise scale software, otherwise you’re going to miss some massive authentication or data exposure problem.
I anticipate the return of the software consulting company like initech, but instead of having Tom and Milton and Samir and Peter etc…, you only have Lumburgh and Michael Bolton.
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[ 11.1 ms ] story [ 101 ms ] threadmost eng roles at frontier companies don't require prior experience specifically with AI, there's a ton of regular engineering work required to train / serve models
This stuff has only existed for 3 years. Everyone is faking it and no one really knows what's right or wrong yet. You're more than qualified.
As a 42 years old web developper, this situation gives me headaches. I feel both with new superpowers and dangerously threatened. I feel we will need much less developpers and yet I can imagine some years where a developper will be able to handle much larger projects.
In some ways, having a superpower is not all that great because then you are forced by the prisoner's dilemma to use it. And if you think about it, it comes at a cost: a higher mental strain over a long period of time.
To use a physical analogy: a workout machine at the gym is very likely to assist you in targeting specific muscles compared to just lifting stuff you need to lift, but it also allows you to push that specific muscle group harder and thus increase the chances of injury to that muscle group precisely because it's so targeted. I think AI is like that with the brain.
(I'll add that it's perfectly possible to work out safely at the gym with lots of equipment. But I've spent years at the gym and I've seen a ton of injuries because the temptation to push a specific muscle group hard is there. And, AI is much worse because with AI, there is an economic incentive to push harder, whereas at the gym it's in your best interest to dial back...only sometimes people like to show off to their gym buddies.)
Aside (shower thought):
A little of a tangent, but I have always felt that the weight belt is kind of odd in that it has become completely accepted to use one for the deadlift and squat. Like, why did we decide that this one form of brace is acceptable but others enhancements are not "real" weightlifting? Why not an incline plane? Why not a pulley?
I'm not at all arguing for or against the usage of the weight belt. I just find it odd that it has become so accepted; seems curious how we decided to draw the line here and not there.
That, and I miss coding... but... this new thing is its own puzzle, and I still do lots of pseudo-code and such, to talk to the AI, which kind of scratches the itch.
Not too far after it will be coders controlling agents who control agents who do the work.
We're in for a very tumultuous few years
secondly, using llms well still requires you to be a great programmer. Y'all are losing the plot.
Also, just because its easier to do doesnt mean everyone is suddenly going to want to do it. There's still always going to be only a small percentage of thr world that likes to build things.
Have you seen the code these things produce? Just because it compiles/ runs/ loads does not mean its durable. Its wild you people have these opinions, and it leads me to belive you have no idea what you're talking about.
There is mass dunning kruger due to llms, and people are speaking with way too much authority about things they do not understand. I hate this website.
How can I bet a shit load of money against this?
I'm your age, and spent the past ~3 years diving head first into AI driven development (after 20 years of work in mostly web and robotics). I was self-employed, and having no employees was a major bottleneck, and not shipping was more dangerous than not reviewing code. So, I've been taking my hands off the wheel for a while, and building systems that enable that workflow.
I got a job this year doing R&D industrial machinery/robotics work. By LOC, I've produced >10x more code per month than the 4-5 developers I replaced, combined.
I don't conflate that 10x code with 10x results, and I know some of y'all take my numbers as a red flag... but... I'm getting better results, faster, alone, than the previous team of 4-5.
The numbers are stuck at 2017 levels. Accumulated inflation since then is over 40%. This bubble is not glamorous at all.
Irl theres a short list of companies that actually build / apply ai at scale. for people trying to break in its usually not expected to have experience with it, just don't lie about it
My current issue is that solo learning and bootstrapping is hella expensive money wise and my current job doesn't pay that much either.
> AI Engineer. Number one on LinkedIn Jobs on the Rise in the US two years running, number one at Robert Half. About 1,550 new US postings a week, median 176,000 dollars. This is the engineer who puts LLMs into products: RAG, agents, fine-tuning, evaluation.
I'm doing all those things. The RAG work was interesting, but putting it on my resume has done nothing. Nobody is hiring. I have recent multi-year FAANG experience too. Before 2023 I could blast out 10 resumes and get at least 8 or so hits with multiple offers. Now I can send out 100 resumes and lucky if I get a single rejection letter. I am seeing the same thing reported by other white-collar working people like HR reps and project managers in all industries. There is definitely a stealth recession/depression scenario playing out right now and has been for at least the last two years.
This is exactly right.
I’m making good side money from building and integrating “AI” with small business tools.
Custom CRMs and tracking solutions so they don’t have to buy salesforce etc…
Notably this doesn’t reliably work for juniors, which supports the article.
You need to already have experience making enterprise scale software, otherwise you’re going to miss some massive authentication or data exposure problem.
I anticipate the return of the software consulting company like initech, but instead of having Tom and Milton and Samir and Peter etc…, you only have Lumburgh and Michael Bolton.