TL;DR: AUD 19,900 driveway (means taxes etc included), or about US$14k. The main limitation is the 220 km (135 mi) range, which is fine for a city runabout but not great for road tripping.
Been thinking more along the lines of the Munda-biddy actually :)
But I haven’t got on my bike for a few years now because at the moment all my spare energy goes on managing our plot. There’s always something needs moving, sawing, building, repairing, digging… So I’ve gone from having a (pudgy) cyclist’s physique with very strong calves to more of a farmer’s build with bigger arm and shoulder muscles than I’ve ever had before and a big ‘ol belly.
But in all seriousness I also like to go remote once in a while and access national parks. I’m not going to be hooning it round destroying dunes, but getting to beautiful places like Cape Peron is tough without a the right vehicle.
I've been through the Bungles on a push bike - so that's a thing, but yeah, Cape Peron would be a hard slog without a boat or vehicle that can push across deep sand - water would be a tough carry.
> without the right vehicle
A loong time ago (late 1970s) I got to traverse the horizontal falls a couple of time in a home made sea kayak after being dropped off "nearby" (and later picked up again) by an old pearling lugger .. pretty low carbon effort that one, just a lot of paddling (and fishing, and digging for fresh water, and dodging the odd shark and salty croc).
For now, flash charging is in China, Europe, UK, and Malaysia (soon). The chargers actually have battery packs in them because the charging current is almost always too much to be supplied by the grid directly.
The average American's longest-kept car is 8 years old. Therefore every eight years or so, Americans are forced to spend a significant amount of money on a car. The median price of a new car in the United States is ~$41,000. If we generously claim that a Chinese car with the same capabilities could be purchased for minimum $30,000 instead, then the number of money being lost to being forced to purchase a more expensive car, every eight years, is 11,000*350 million, or ~3.8 trillion dollars. Dividing per year, we get roughly 480 billion dollars per year that could be spent by Americans.
I'm not an economist nor a mathematician, so I will not claim that this is a good expression of the economic impact of these restrictions. But I will say that the average American does not care about which country his or her car originates from. They care about navigating our crumbling infrastructure through the only means possible, the car. We have no reliable public transport in 99% of this country nor alternative modes of transport. We are forced to buy cars.
It seems unfair to me that the average American, who is making less and less per year after we adjust for inflation and purchasing power, should be forced to carry the burden of a technologically backwards industry that is still pumping out millions of gas-powered vehicles, which are not only bad for the environment, but are even more expensive to operate compared to the cost of electric cars per mile.
Our country does not think ahead, all of our decisions just temporarily patch our longstanding issues. America is screwed.
I don't think tbis quite holds - money being spent on domestically produced vehicles should be going to working families, so the money stays and is spent again in the country. Now if most of that money just goes to the mega rich, then it's fairly pointless.
But it's definitely more complex than just money saved = money spent elsewhere
I agree with this. It certainly is more complex than just that. Only yesterday was I thinking about this topic, as I was walking around Osaka and looking at the cars over there. I would like to see an actual study on this question.
What industrial base, most countries don't have competitive domestic auto and has the option of not being ripped off by western brans. For countries with domestic auto... this 2026, the that auto plant isn't building modern tanks and planes. Maybe you can retrain workers to make drones... or coffins and urns.
They are in the EU. The tariff is 27% so they aren't as numerous as they would be without it but there are still plenty.
There will probably be a lot more starting next year since they are building a factory in the EU which is scheduled to start production at the end of this year. That bypasses tariffs.
Regulatory capture, legalized bribery whoops I mean political donations, and protectionism. Gotta let Detroit keep making crappy bro-dozers that get 15MPG.
Because American auto makers convinced the government that BYD is price dumping in every market segment at the same time and somehow staying profitable.
The Chinese government is effectively giving all manufacturers 0% financing and raw materials at cost.
And even still, BYD executives have come out and said their pricing is not sustainable. The Chinese market is engaging in a massive price war and BYD's strategy is to entrench themselves in new markets with "aggressive" introductory pricing campaigns.
One mechanism by which the US encourages free market capitalism is requiring reciprocity. China is not evil - they are just self interested - and it is the responsibility of the US government to negotiate a trade agreement that benefits its citizens.
The Europeans did a survey and pegged the value of BYD's government support at 17%. I trust that number as an upper limit because the European government would have had lots of incentive to be thorough and to err on the side of over estimating.
Not to say you're wrong, but BYD could still be price dumping in several markets, while being quietly propped up by the Chinese government. I'm not convinced that's the case, but it's still possible.
The kind of corporate-socialism that would allow a government to dump cash into an otherwise uncompetitive domestic automotive manufacturer to keep it afloat though, is more an American thing. If American auto manufacturers are right, and BYD is receiving government help, the hypocrisy would be nearly unbelievable
I saw a print ad for a brand new Toyota Corolla back in 1974—something like $2500 or so. Running the inflation numbers: where are the $17K cars today? Why is the average US new car $50K now.
To be sure, I know there are a lot more regulations on car manufacturers now, and tech in the cars, but come on!
Querying Claude: "Manufacturers have responded by prioritizing profit, concentrating inventory at higher price points…", "2026 is the first year in the U.S. with no new car priced under $20,000."
Cars in the US are the ultimate regressive tax. The blue-collar worker that needs a car to get to work, the guy that mows lawns for a living, the maids… Sure, used cars are a thing (my first car in my 1984 was in fact a Datsun B-210 that I paid $400 for). But I think everyone has noticed that used car prices are through the roof as well.
The Japanese came in and handed the US car manufacturers their asses in the 70's. We might need something like that again.
What a hot dump for 25k. The current corolla in all its glory and odd mix of old and new technologies should be a 15k otd car, but instead its seen as a value at 25k and will provide years of boring value for a barely attentive driver.
The effects of efficiency gains and inflation should eat most of the cost of those new features, I presume. I mean, computerization makes a lot of things easier and cheaper, and computers are very cheap now.
Historically, base model for the US market had more features than base European trim. I guess the same applies for Japan. Also taxes are different, obviously.
Also, every car manufacturer has to go through crash testing and homologation in order to sell cars directly to US consumers. And, without a parts supply chain, maintaining a car becomes very difficult. So even paying 200-300% over the sale price with third-party homologation makes private importation expensive, painful, and slow.
With free electricity bring offered in the afternoon because of excess solar would be a great car for most peoples daily commute cheaper even than public transport as this is less than $6 per day over 10 years
That's a pretty stunning price. For context I was looking at a second hand 2018 Nissan Leaf (grey import here in Australia) a couple weeks ago for 20k.
The irony of your comment is that these chinese evs are made by some of the most heavily automated manufacturing lines. (Not disputing that there are zero exploited workers here)
But I hope you aren't buying any phones, laptops which indeed have lot of exploitation and sometimes even slave labour (see cobalt mining in DRC). Or not buying any supermarket meat, eggs or milk. It is incredibly easy to pass a moralistic judgement.
Not disagreeing with you, but also two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone else, or someone does 'thing A' that's disagreeable, doesn't mean doing 'thing B' becomes fine.
With the rising living standards and a looming population cliff due to the one-child-policy wages in China have steadily been rising - and they'll get even higher in the future. Any Chinese industry relying on cheap and mostly-unskilled labor is in serious trouble. They know this, which is why they have been heavily pushing for automation. As a result, companies like BYD have been setting up "dark factories" for a while now.
Want cars made by overworked and underpaid workers? These days that means buying American.
Chinese auto factories are heavily automated, to the point that some are already lights out. Yes, they still need technicians and some blue collar labor, but it’s not Mao or even Jiang’s China anymore.
Will be earth shattering when the CCP "pulls the plug" and then BYD and other Chinese manufacturers fail to honor vehicle warranties, even abandon their warrantee / service centers throughout the world
What plug is there to pull, PRC auto export prices are still 2x domestic MSRP, there's so much fat there to sustain overseas growth and undercut everyone else.
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[ 0.25 ms ] story [ 10.1 ms ] threadTL;DR: AUD 19,900 driveway (means taxes etc included), or about US$14k. The main limitation is the 220 km (135 mi) range, which is fine for a city runabout but not great for road tripping.
That said, coupled with home solar to power it, this is very cheap way to get on the road.
Or: a $2000 Corolla and the rental home you’re already in.
Depends whether you're taking the Birdsville track or the Bibbulmun track really.
The shorter one can be done a on a red postie bike, the longer one won't even need that :-)
But I haven’t got on my bike for a few years now because at the moment all my spare energy goes on managing our plot. There’s always something needs moving, sawing, building, repairing, digging… So I’ve gone from having a (pudgy) cyclist’s physique with very strong calves to more of a farmer’s build with bigger arm and shoulder muscles than I’ve ever had before and a big ‘ol belly.
But in all seriousness I also like to go remote once in a while and access national parks. I’m not going to be hooning it round destroying dunes, but getting to beautiful places like Cape Peron is tough without a the right vehicle.
> without the right vehicle
A loong time ago (late 1970s) I got to traverse the horizontal falls a couple of time in a home made sea kayak after being dropped off "nearby" (and later picked up again) by an old pearling lugger .. pretty low carbon effort that one, just a lot of paddling (and fishing, and digging for fresh water, and dodging the odd shark and salty croc).
Passed an old guy on a pushbike with a trailer on the nullabor in 2010 and just thought “wow, that’s commitment”
€12k in France (where i am) can't get you any new car, even the cheapest ICE Dacia is more expensive than that now.
Also, I think you are underestimating the sheer size and desolate spreaded-outness of Australia.
I'm not an economist nor a mathematician, so I will not claim that this is a good expression of the economic impact of these restrictions. But I will say that the average American does not care about which country his or her car originates from. They care about navigating our crumbling infrastructure through the only means possible, the car. We have no reliable public transport in 99% of this country nor alternative modes of transport. We are forced to buy cars.
It seems unfair to me that the average American, who is making less and less per year after we adjust for inflation and purchasing power, should be forced to carry the burden of a technologically backwards industry that is still pumping out millions of gas-powered vehicles, which are not only bad for the environment, but are even more expensive to operate compared to the cost of electric cars per mile.
Our country does not think ahead, all of our decisions just temporarily patch our longstanding issues. America is screwed.
But it's definitely more complex than just money saved = money spent elsewhere
There will probably be a lot more starting next year since they are building a factory in the EU which is scheduled to start production at the end of this year. That bypasses tariffs.
The Chinese government is effectively giving all manufacturers 0% financing and raw materials at cost.
And even still, BYD executives have come out and said their pricing is not sustainable. The Chinese market is engaging in a massive price war and BYD's strategy is to entrench themselves in new markets with "aggressive" introductory pricing campaigns.
When US companies do it, then it is just good business strategy, investing in growth for future profits.
Yes, the bastion of free market capitalism is no much different than the evil communist countries.
> reciprocity
Funny joke. Everybody laughs. Curtains.
Neither appellation is true and probably never was.
The kind of corporate-socialism that would allow a government to dump cash into an otherwise uncompetitive domestic automotive manufacturer to keep it afloat though, is more an American thing. If American auto manufacturers are right, and BYD is receiving government help, the hypocrisy would be nearly unbelievable
To be sure, I know there are a lot more regulations on car manufacturers now, and tech in the cars, but come on!
Querying Claude: "Manufacturers have responded by prioritizing profit, concentrating inventory at higher price points…", "2026 is the first year in the U.S. with no new car priced under $20,000."
Cars in the US are the ultimate regressive tax. The blue-collar worker that needs a car to get to work, the guy that mows lawns for a living, the maids… Sure, used cars are a thing (my first car in my 1984 was in fact a Datsun B-210 that I paid $400 for). But I think everyone has noticed that used car prices are through the roof as well.
The Japanese came in and handed the US car manufacturers their asses in the 70's. We might need something like that again.
GR Corolla is much better and faster than any supercars of 1970s. Compare price of it with original Countach!
Isn't it just USD/EUR underselling itself? Basically it's full $10k cheaper if you agree to not take it out of Japan. Take home is $10k extra. No?
But I hope you aren't buying any phones, laptops which indeed have lot of exploitation and sometimes even slave labour (see cobalt mining in DRC). Or not buying any supermarket meat, eggs or milk. It is incredibly easy to pass a moralistic judgement.
With the rising living standards and a looming population cliff due to the one-child-policy wages in China have steadily been rising - and they'll get even higher in the future. Any Chinese industry relying on cheap and mostly-unskilled labor is in serious trouble. They know this, which is why they have been heavily pushing for automation. As a result, companies like BYD have been setting up "dark factories" for a while now.
Want cars made by overworked and underpaid workers? These days that means buying American.
I have no idea why ICE cars are so pricey nowadays here.