Yes, a lot of bills are introduced in one chamber and die in that same chamber. This case is referring to it being introduced by "Senators Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), and Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), along with Representatives Val Hoyle (D-Ore.), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), and Suhas Subramanyam (D-Va.)", presumably there's a companion bill for the house, since the links seem to only have the Senate version.
Can someone steelman private equity, please? I'm honestly looking for the upsides (for non-investors) of when PE moves into an industry like medicine and begins buying up businesses that traditionally aren't already large chains.
I already hear the downsides frequently from someone whose work is directly affected.
That’s a good expansion of the premise, I’d support your idea wholeheartedly. Let PE raid chain restaurants and toy stores, not essential services where they add no value and only extract wealth.
That's easily circumvented with management service organizations. More broadly, it's a stupid idea, especially beyond a few areas like law. If you own a golf course, you shouldn't have to sell only to a golfer.
Easy. PE 99% of the time buy businesses that were already failing and provide a lifeline. A failing business can't afford to pay for expensive medical treatments without a loan that a bank will not provide since it is failing.
People who are vehemently against PE generally do not have any idea of how the system works
They don't have to have an in-depth understanding of leveraged finance to get pissed off when their doctors start doubling prices or their own employment conditions get worse or their parents get treated badly in care homes because the staff are now overworked etc. they're mad at the outcomes they're overwhelmingly not actually trying to debate the merits of it from an exit liquidity perspective.
That's one model of private equity, but PE has also been buying up very successful local businesses in areas like veterinary care. The PE firm keeps the name and branding of the local vet because people have traditionally wanted to take their pet to a trusted local vet, not a big chain.
Many medical practices (and other businesses) are poorly operated and administered. I think of my dentist: terrible website (even by 1995 standards), awful at follow up, weird insurance coverage (since she doesn't have time to follow up with new plans it seems) and almost no appointment reminders. There are obvious things to do that could drive business for her.
It makes sense to me that someone could come in and say "hey, let me run the business + finance side of the house while you practice medicine" and at least on paper I can see a real world where that works out for everybody.
Of course, soon you end up with dentists pushing unnecessary procedures and more, so it doesn't always works out that way.
Improving efficiency and optimizing profit are two overlapping segments on the road to crap. It’s not easy to stop the car once you put the bean counters in the driver's seat. If a company is able to do so, it’s usually because there’s a strong leader or culture to resist the slide. But otherwise it’s a thousand small decisions that all seem reasonable on their own.
In human med, it's a pretty standard practice to offer a management company 10% ownership for them to handle the business shit.
I'm not arguing with you; I'm legitimately curious what happened to that model and why PE has swooped in as more attractive to doctors. Maybe it's the payout and/or the fact that they don't have to handle business owner decisions at _all_ anymore?
Those are two different things, typically.
A business manager taking 10% means they're still running the practice day to day and seeing patients.
PE will come in to buy the entire practice from the doctor/dentist/vet that owns the practice, buying it from them entirely.
Oh, definitely. But what my parent comment was suggesting that PE do for their dentist is what 10% business management companies were already doing.
An acquaintance doctor in vet med was pitched 10% ownership in a practice buyout; PE would do business management. The doctor countered with the PE company getting 10%, since they won't be doing any medicine. The PE company declined.
Many new medical treatments/approaches involve heavy capex (robots, light and ion sources, imaging systems, etc) and removing private money that doesn't belong to individual physicians personally will suck a vast amount of capital out of healthcare, creating significant forces against innovation and deployment.
PE exists because a lot of companies are poorly managed. It's better for your local hospital to be taken over by a PE firm than to go out of business. You can say that it would be even better if the government ran the hospital, and you would be right, but that would require a radical overhaul of the American healthcare system. Until that happens, PE plays a major role in keeping things working.
> PE exists because a lot of companies are poorly managed.
This is a non-sequitur. The existence of private equity has an effect on how companies are run, not the other way around. Many well-run companies are targeted by PE exactly because they're well-run and have carved out a sizable captive audience for themselves. And when PE takes over, said company usually ceases to be well-run on all metrics except one.
PE exists because of the non-linear relationship between money accumulation and power. This effect means that it is more beneficial for any company to hoard capital as much as it can rather than "waste" it on the wider economy; after accumulating enough capital, the company can pivot away from whatever market it was in before and focus solely on asset management. PE mostly results from too low taxation on inert wealth compounded by zero-interest rate monetary policies.
PE staff are more intelligent and more shrewd than the people running the businesses they buy. Being a good doctor doesn't make you a good businessman.
I'm not a huge fan of PE but the point of economics to deliver cheap and quality goods to consumers not keep people in a job.
In healthcare in US in particular I think the main thing that capital should be (if regulators allow) boutique / specialists that e.g. are the best in the biz at doing MRI scans, in some states my understanding is that it's literally illegal to start a business aiming to make one small part of the process better.
> What does it mean in this context to be more intelligent and shrewd than the existing owners?
Streamlining everything. Sometimes this is done in a bad faith way, but it’s often not difficult to do it in a good faith way.
Some simple examples:
- right-sizing staff (can be reducing, increasing, or changing roles)
- improving marketing (e.g., simple things like customer reactivation, packaging the product/service better, or just plain, ol’ getting the word out better via stuff like before/after pics or success stories)
You're putting the cart in front of the horse. Their incentive and their job isn't about 'streamlining' anything, let alone in a good-faith way, and that just so happens to deliver some extra cash on the side in a pleasant surprise. Their sole purpose is the profit, and they will try absolutely anything to get it. Sometimes it may accidentally produce good outcomes, but in general there's no rule or incentive to ensure that happens. They can do anything, and if there's anything to go off of, every entity I see desperately chase profit over all turns utterly evil. Being evil just deepens your toolbox for getting the only thing that matters in the world - money - so of course they tend to win out over anyone who still actually cares about the underlying business or customers.
In theory this is true, but in practice I am skeptical that it's generally possible to do this with generic "business" intelligence that is not accompanied by specific understanding of and genuine care for the actual substance of what the business does. That is, no matter how good you are at "business", you're not going to have a good hamburger stand unless you care about making good hamburgers. It's true that the importance of this varies from one business to another, but I don't see any particular tendency for PE to gravitate towards industries where it matters less. (Medicine is an example of an area where it would matter most.)
There's more than one form of intelligence, and being good at fixing people doesn't necessarily correlate with managing a business. As silly as it sounds, watching Shark Tank will really demonstrate that someone can have a legitimately great idea, but if they aren't business minded, it wont matter.
Contrary to popular belief, being intelligent in one thing does correlate with being intelligent at other things[1]. For doctors, the comparison with private equity (MBAs?) might be close, but it's not hard to imagine the targets of other PE rollups have owners that are more average in intelligence, think plumbing or roofing.
Which section of that very long article are you claiming supports your assertion?
Here's a bit from the start of the "Concept" section:
>> In a famous research paper published in 1904,[8] English psychologist Charles Spearman observed that children's performance measures across seemingly unrelated school subjects were positively correlated. The consistent finding of universally positive correlation matrices of mental test results (or the "positive manifold"), despite large differences in tests' contents, has been described as "arguably the most replicated result in all psychology".[9]
>being intelligent in one thing does correlate with being intelligent at other things
vs
>The consistent finding of universally positive correlation matrices of mental test results (or the "positive manifold"), despite large differences in tests' contents, has been described as "arguably the most replicated result in all psychology".[9]
How are they contradictory? Did the first part of my comment make you think there was a negation?
Hard disagree about "more intelligent". They are playing a financial game using a combination of leverage and reptilian ruthlessness to EBITDA hack.
They buy one (or more) companies, often with only the slimmest understanding of what those companies do, slash opex by getting the company with layoffs (yay EBITDA), maybe staple a few companies together with leveraged buy-outs, then resell the whole bundle.
From experience, they don't give a single crap whether the resulting mess still functions. They care about selling the company for more than they bought it for. That prospect is only tenuously and at best accidentally related to whether the company still functions.
The private equity companies I've had to deal with were full of braindead MBA spreadsheet monkeys and used car salesmen. Their chief differentiator was that they worked 80 hours a week and were enthusiastic about paying people off without much deliberation.
Apple has, for most of its existence, been a distant second choice, because IBM and Microsoft captured the enterprise, which trickled down into consumer buying habits.
It survived, then thrived, by making its products so appealing that customers would buy them anyway.
Apple is not a PE firm. They are a public consumer goods company with a ton of different business lines. Their duty is shareholder value and making good products that sell is one way to do that.
Value extraction is a short term play. It’s usable by most companies in a pinch, but normally only happens before their death or slow decay into zombie-dom. At least, that’s what my anecdata tells me.
That's really not true. Studies have shown that there's little correlation between care quality and profitability. In some cases non-profit health systems charge high prices and deliver terrible care quality. The reality is that most provider organizations are run by incompetent managers. People used to working in modern tech companies would be shocked to see the waste, inefficiency, and missed opportunities. PE acquisitions may cause some problems but the new managers do at least bring a basic level of discipline and operational competence that was often missing before.
Modern tech companies are not managed well at all in my experience! They’re rife with waste.
Management often makes terribly unprofitable decisions and often work to protect their slices of the pie rather than the org.
Tech companies are saved by their margins, their aura, and low interest rates.
Better examples might be grocery stores or other low margin businesses that require some fairly ruthless prioritization (at least that is what I’m to understand)
To your care / profitability argument: that is good news! However, I do believe that concern for profitability will always outweigh a care quality argument so there is a misalignment of incentives in that case. I would look to insurers to demonstrate this, generally, but can imagine a PE-owned hospital system might attempt similar measures.
Ideal outcome is a great manager that also cares and ends up paying doctors more and providing excellent care while driving down costs using better processes and negotiating with suppliers. But, uh… not sure how often the benevolent PE firm actually shows up historically.
We know how to make MRI cheaper. Put it in a can. MRI suites are built with copper shielding in the walls, and the machines are really heavy, which creates huge capital costs. (Capex is a big problem for medicine.) There's an easy solution: you can just put an MRI machine in a standard tractor-trailer container and bring the patients in. Nothing has to be constructed or installed.
None of the private equity chains with the sans-serif fonts, simplified logos and trisyllabic names are doing this, though. It's bad marketing. Patients don't want to walk outside to an MRI machine in the parking lot. It feels sketchy. Never mind that they score just as well on the ACR image quality tests as the in-room machines. Who the hell knows what that is?
In reality, it's the county hospitals and big universities that use them! Places that have in-house physicists who can argue for what really makes sense in practice. A major problem with healthcare as a business is that the customer does not usually understand the product, but they still need to buy it, and there are time constraints.
> Patients don't want to walk outside to an MRI machine in the parking lot. It feels sketchy.
Seems like you could build a hallway around the trailer; if you do it right, nobody knows it's a trailer in the middle of the building. If you do it really well, you can still pull the trailer out.
Easy to imagine practices where the primary owner is going to retire and looking for an out.
Maybe they find a buyer in a doctor, maybe they don't, but PE provides them an exit that keeps the practice operating in the community.
Many people don't really run businesses efficiently. There was an interesting video I saw recently where a sole doctor practice made a few changes to their workflow that allowed them to hire more doctors and handle 2x as many people - I would expect a PE firm would pursue similar changes that help increase the number of people they can service, increasing competitiveness and lowering prices in the long run.
I don't know how these tradeoffs interact with patient care, but I wouldn't inherently expect PE to be worse at this than any other operating model.
Lots of other efficiencies to look at. Tons of them are directly bad for the patient (capturing more of the surplus is an efficiency that businesses generally go hard at).
Ultimately, I think the issue is when people making decisions are able to treat the impact as an abstraction.
A structure to run business efficiently using practiced methods is always a good thing. However from what little I have understood, the goal of Private Equity is to maximize the dollar value on their investment. Somehow they have settled with the playbook that running a business even profitably isn't the best idea. Instead its much more profitable to take over the struggling business at good price, squeeze everything possible from the assets (thats where PE seem to be investing their expertise unfortunately) over duration of time. Update the books in a manner that it saves money on taxes and carry forwards the loss, making money in the process.
My favorite is to sell the building(s) to their private real estate company and lease back. Then IPO the company and keep the rent coming on a 25 year lease.
Why do you need to sell a private practice? There’s no brand to sell, it’s just you and that will be gone.
PE is scourge in this space. They’ve probably taken over every dental office already and now they push unnecessary procedures and whatever your insurance will bear just because.
If there is truly nothing as you say, there is nothing for PE to buy, and no problem. If there is nothing to sell of value, what stops new dentists from seamlessly opening an office?
Most private practices are small groups, not individuals. It absolutely sucks to have to find a new doctor who’s a good fit for you, when you’ve been seeing the same person for years or even decades. Usually when your doctor retires you rely on them to make a recommendation for a replacement. Usually that’s another partner in their same practice. At the very least, you (historically) expect them to sell the practice to someone they think is a worthy successor. Patients are fairly sticky.
And many of these PE sales require the selling partner to stay on for at least a year or two to ease the patients through the transition and so the patients get used to the changes before the doctor actually retires. That way, sticking around after the doctor retires doesn’t feel like such an upheaval.
Maybe in your neck of the woods vets operate out of the trunk of their cars, but all the ones I've ever engaged had offices, expensive medical equipment, an office building, and trained staff.
>> Maybe they find a buyer in a doctor, maybe they don't, but PE provides them an exit that keeps the practice operating in the community.
If the practice is to continue, there must still be practitioners working there. Id prefer they buy out the one retiring, but the retiree can sell to whoever they want.
> Many people don't really run businesses efficiently.
In many cases that's a good thing, depending on what we mean by efficient. Lots of people run businesses in ways that make less money than they could, and often that's good.
> I don't know how these tradeoffs interact with patient care, but I wouldn't inherently expect PE to be worse at this than any other operating model.
Doesn't the evidence suggest it is indeed often worse?
These businesses would simply stop existing if no purchaser came forward. Many first-world economies face a demographic cliff where boomers are retiring and there is nobody in the next generation who can afford to take over the local dentist office, the HVAC company, etc.
You are forgetting that if PE weren't there to buy out local dentist offices at a premium, then these offices would sell at far lower price, making them affordable to the next generation.
Small businesses that represent the owner's primary source of income don't work that way. If I'm a 65 year old dentist, I don't have to stop working, so if I don't get exciting enough offers I'm just going to keep making money myself. Eventually my estate will have to sell the practice, but at that point there may be no value left beyond the assets.
That's not a demographic cliff, that's a financial power cliff, and it's caused exactly by too much money being tied up in PE companies and offshore accounts. All that money has been taken out of the local economy, leaving each generation with an increasingly smaller size of the pie, even when the pie itself is consistently growing.
It sounds like there's too much money in PE and not enough in the hands of young people. I'm told there is a secret ancient technique for rectifying such a situation.
Person B has a pile of money and thinks that that business is (or can be) a good investment.
That's it.
So, what happens if person A is prohibited from selling their business? Are they forced to keep working because they don't have enough other savings to retire on? Do they shut the business down in order to retire? Something else?
.
Calls to ban private equity are attempts to play "shoot the messenger".
May be categorizing the different private equities can be helpful here. A PE interested and invested for growth is always the best outcome. A PE only looking to salvage and squeeze is that gives the bad branding to PE.
It basically comes down to interest rates right? If interest rates are low, the discounted-cash-flows analysis will favor maximizing long-run profitability. If interest rates are high, you can do better by squeezing the business in the short term and placing the money you obtained into some sort of high-yield, low-risk investment vehicle.
The positive argument about PE adding value is around efficiency of processes and scale. Interest rates can make a difference however in reality I doubt that it effects the outcome in most cases. Companies have already invested in staff with certain type of expertise and they are unlikely to change their plans or rehire based on the interest rates in short run.
My PE is SaaS heavy portfolio. Pricing strategy, GTM, product roadmap; companies have rev, good moat, good customer base. But clear opportunity to grow rev.
Many companies are held by original founders. Leadership teams in eng and product have been the same for a decade+; lacking exposure to how the industry is shifting. AI, for example, has slow adoption in some cases.
When interest rates are low, it's most profitable to invest in extremely high risk, extremely high reward unicorn startups. That makes way more money on average than any long-run profitability. In fact, long-run profitability is basically never the most efficient use of money regardless of market conditions.
Why does everything have to be obsessed with growth? Especially with practically every (first world, at least) country having a birth rate well below replacement.
Not all businesses are obsessed with growth. Many mature businesses are managed for value rather than growth and focus on returning profits to shareholders through dividends or stock buybacks.
> A PE interested and invested for growth is always the best outcome.
(Throwaway) I work at a top ~10 PE.
This is what we do. One portfolio company has a product on old tech. We bring in a product team, a CTO, internal tech teams. Help shape a roadmap to tackle the most egregious tech and product debt so teams can move faster. Fix non-existent or outdated pricing strategy that has not evolved with the industry. Fix, grow, or evolve GTM to reach new customers. Help bring fresh leadership resources in when needed.
Industry is typically "boring" and systems are valuable, but aging. We invest, modernize, and try to grow new rev streams, new customers. Portfolio is SaaS focused (can't speak for those that invest in real estate and healthcare).
The employees of the PE also co-invest so everyone is aligned to help the portfolio companies grow and exit. This is a multiyear process.
Naming couple companies that you acquired for whom you changed the trajectory would be a lot stronger signal without revealing your identity.
On side note, its rare to see anyone fixing the old tech, its hard to fix, needs a different kind of talent thats hard to hire for the PE money. The folks who can understand some one else's decade old code and run their imagination through all the possible assumptions or trade off that might have been made in code/system are rare to find.
Finding new customers, finding more things to sell, finding synergies with other items in your portfolio, increasing the price for existing products are more realistic.
We have portfolio level CTOs that specialize in this playbook. Fixing the tech means many things. Many companies don't even have CI (forget CD). Some have really broken processes and handoffs between teams. And yes, some are running COBOL backends.
Sorry, naming a portfolio company would reveal the PE.
I'm going to side-track a bit, but since I'm being courted by PE I thought I'd ask.
>> The employees of the PE also co-invest
Is this voluntary, or mandatory?
I ask because I've seen clauses along the lines of "75% of bonuses are paid in shares, not available for sale for 5 years."
Using bonus money to buy shares props up the share price, but delays the employee actually seeing the bonus for 5 years. Seems pretty win-lose to me, and kinda puts me off.
Is this a standard practice you mean by co-invest?
(As an aside, I'm not a fan of buying shares where I work, that's not a good portfolio-diversification model. If the business goes under it's not good to lose both your job, and investments, on the same day.)
Differs by company. Best thing you can do: check CalPers (CA pension) listing of investments for your PE's internal rate of return and historical performance for some funds.
There is carry and co-invest. Carry is a grant (like options). Co-invest is additional funds that you commit for capital calls when the fund invests. My comp is base + cash bonus (1.#x base) + carry (~2/3 of my base every year for 10 years).
Yes, locked away until some distribution event. Bonus is cash (YMMV), but if you don't already have the capital for a capital call, you're right that your bonus effectively ends up in the fund to meet capital call requirements at some point.
Co-invest is "strongly recommended at the amount specified". Legally, they cannot compel you to, but basically the way it is worded...
Should you co-invest? Look at CalPers for realistic rate of returns. Look at the PE portfolio; do you think it holds? Ask them to walk you through a case study of their timeline with a successful portfolio co. CalPers is not playing around. Some funds will 3x, 4x over the lifetime (historical performance not indicative of future perf). You pay capital gains tax on that earning.
Best case: you already have the cash to cover the co-invest capital calls. Worst case: you are borrowing money or using your bonus to plow more into the portfolio.
Except they always strip mine the business. Cut the quality and push unnecessary shit. But, hey, you can fill out your forms on an iPad instead of pen and paper. Very cool.
> So, what happens if person A is prohibited from selling their business?
I actually made that thought experiment. Disallow selling businesses. Disallow selling shares. Disallow stock market. Disallow mergers. The only way to acquire a business is to found it or to inherit it. The only way to quit a business is to shut it all down, with all assets liquidated, all liabilities settled, and all contracts terminated.
The main downside is that it's harder for to make money. Otherwise... I only see positives. And no, it wouldn't kill innovation. The investors would just have to invest the old fashioned way - by founding companies or expanding their existing businesses. As for job security, we already don't have it in the current system.
You can sell all your offices, desks, printers, laptops, machinery, land, inventory, intellectual property, and anything else you want to your heart's content. The only thing you can't sell is the legal entity itself.
That's such an incredibly shortsighted view of the downsides.
In your model, the only possible business owners would be those with major capital resources to begin with, encouraging the spread of existing businesses into a sprawl: Walmart is now your doctor, pharmacist, and pharma manufacturer. Nobody would start a small business because they'd have to carry all liability, any new ideas are limited to spread at a glacially slow pace, because companies can't be aquired or acqui-hired, but can instead only scale on their own revenues.
It's worse than that. When the owner retires, all staff lose their jobs. That's a fairly big bummer.
I'm currently part of a "small" business/factory (around 50 employees). The owner is nearing retirement. Are all 50 of us gonna hit the streets tomorrow? Should our customers, many longstanding over 20 years get their contracts terminated? Do they get any warning? Can they easily switch to other suppliers? Is our offering somewhat unique?
Frankly, I think the thought-experiment is very incomplete if you can't see major downsides.
Recently, the owner of the factory my grandfather worked for the last 30 years has retired and sold their business, as a single package, fully operational, with employees and pending orders. It was still shut down and all employees were let go without any severance. From what I know, this is the norm for retirement sales, not the exception.
In this thought experiment, the result would be very similar to what happened, except with less wealth concentration, and with fewer Boeing-McDonnell Douglas mergers that ruin good companies in pursuit of short term profits (because short term profits are harder to realize by design).
Lost jobs are also a lot less of a problem in countries with functioning safety net.
> In your model, the only possible business owners would be those with major capital resources to begin with
Or you get a loan. Or you get an investor on board. How is that different from the current situation?
> encouraging the spread of existing businesses into a sprawl: Walmart is now your doctor, pharmacist, and pharma manufacturer.
It's happening anyway. My last vaccination was done 100% at Walmart.
> Nobody would start a small business because they'd have to carry all liability
How is that different from the current situation?
> any new ideas are limited to spread at a glacially slow pace, because companies can't be aquired or acqui-hired
Acquisitions are a relatively recent inventions, acqui-hires even more so. People have been doing massive inventions at rapid pace for like 200 years before being bought out by FAANG was a viable business strategy.
> but can instead only scale on their own revenues.
OK. Your job is from now is dung transport. Because you inherited it, whether you like it or not.
Sure, you are allowed to start a new business. But where would you get money? You can't sell your dung transport business, and you don't have enough money of your own to just start a new business from scratch.
It makes it impossible to share part of a business, including stocks. It also massively increases the friction of takeover by killing all employee, vendor, and client contracts, so the buyer cannot benefit from any of these without arranging for it separately. It also invalidates the strategy of leveraged buyout. But yes, it can be done in principle. Which is especially important in the "who will take over the local dentist's office" scenario - this system would heavily favor small business owners who want to do the business personally over holding corporations and PE funds.
Nope. It will result in a large company moving in and buying all the assets (still allowed), and forcing the employees to work for less money. Because why not?
It's crazy what some people will come up with just to have something to criticize instead of the actual contents of the thing they're replying to. Nobody said continuing an inherited business is mandatory, least of all me.
I am all for serious discussion about shortcomings of my idea. But this isn't it.
Yes. It absolutely does, because your system heavily favors inherited capital that HAS to stay within the family. It also heavily discourages capital mobility, risk-taking, and entrepreneurship.
Say "hello" to dynastic marriages, noble lineages, etc. The _best_ case is the system of medieval guilds.
Sell the assets maybe, potentially to somebody who wants to use them to run the same kind of business in the same kind of location with the same employees.
It's hostile to the consumer to call it the same business. A name change gives them the opportunity to decide for themselves whether the new owner is worth supporting. It's similarly hostile to the employees to assume that their loyalties can be bought and sold. Let the new owner of the assets re-hire them for the same position in the same location if he wants to, but lets not have them be for sale.
I think that last point is opposite; it’s seen as heartless when the new owner of a business goes through rehiring existing employees instead of assuring them they still have a job.
Isn't offering them a job that's equivalent to their old one indistinguishable from assuring them that they still have a job? You don't have to make them reinterview if if you don't want to.
Maybe it's just a me thing, but every time somebody buys me it makes me angry. Like what if I want to interview the new boss? Isn't the interview supposed to be a both ways thing?
I don't think it's equivalent because it's paperwork they now have to think about, they're wondering if it's wiping away old employment promises or systems, did everyone get one of these offers, etc.
Definitely see how some would prefer the job reconsidered, though. There's no system that makes everyone happy, including to never sell a business.
These things are good to think about; appreciate it.
Small(er) businesses can be poorly run. In theory private equity takes knowledge already in practise in other locations and shares it with this new location, improving results. Downside of course is that they care a lot less about that specific location than the previous owners would have.
One specific practise I’d like to see banned is private equity buying companies with debt the company then assumes. It staggers me that it’s legal.
That's a silly suggestion. The lenders buying that debt know what they're getting into. Those are sophisticated investors. If lenders want to limit what borrowers are allowed to do then there's nothing stopping them from imposing debt covenants on the deal. No need for the government to ban anything.
PE attacks organizational sclerosis, can save companies that otherwise slowly deteriorate, reallocates resources faster, creates an unusually powerful form of corporate governance, Debt can impose useful discipline, can provide capabilities that smaller companies couldn't build themselves.
A society doesn't necessarily benefit from preserving every existing job. It benefits from creating increasingly productive jobs.
If I own a hospital that makes infinite money and every patient that comes to it dies the economy measures this is infinite productivity. This is contrived, but really matches some of what we see in real life.
This is why making a measurement a target can be horrifically destructive and contrary to the actual goal society wants.
The west doesn't seem to believe in the idea of social stability over increased profits which can lead to things like corporations being the social structure that is optimized for rather than the wellbeing of the individuals it contains. Left to run out of control the society can collapse.
Private Equity allows an owner to sell their income generating but slowly dieing company for its value today. The company will keep operating for 3-5 years and then rapidly shutdown.
This is valuable for business owners, because it gives them a way to get the value out of a failing business without having to ride it all the way into the ground.
It's valuable for consumers because it provides locations to shop for halloween supplies.
Pe is good when it is taking big risks on something new. That is hard so that is not what most pe does. Most pe is just figuring out ways to insert artificial inefficiencies into the system to syphon money off. Ie tax arbitrage, patent/copyright abuse, geographic or other market power abuse, etc. Basically find a way to move money around the system with no net benefit to society while having a bunch of it fall in your pocket is 90% of what pe does and its poison. The other 10% is vitally important to continued growth and prosperity and its often hard to tell which is happening until its over.
Private equity just means controlling a company outside of the public stock markets, it is incredibly broad, and covers everything from blackrock buying every vets office in an area, to a plumber buying out another plumber when they want to retire.
The steelman argument is that private equity is just property rights. If I build a business I get to decide what to do with it.
What most people are arguing against is a specific kind of PE where an institutional investor will either use aggressive financial engineering to force a profit, even if it kills the business, or when those same investors aggregate market share to the point where it is detrimental to consumers. Sprinkle in a little bit of heartless MBA bullshit, and that is what people specifically don’t like.
In medicine, it's a solution for someone who wants liquidity (buy kids new home, help local dog shelter, add a new mistress) and doesn't want to retire, yet.
The problem is that the terms are custom and YMMV as an existing patient of said practice.
A stronger steelman is that it results in resources getting allocated in smarter/healthier ways across society.
If there's some business that's getting by but the land it's on is more valuable (e.g. for housing) than the business, some investors buy the business, sell the land, make the business account for the land value, wind the business down if it can't, and there are apartments there a few years later.
I think that "everyone should be able to do what they want with their own property", per se, is not a good principle for society. Sometimes people should not be allowed to do what they want with their property. In particular, I think the more property a person has, the less freedom they should have to do what they want with it. (This can also take the form of "the amount of property a person can own should be limited".)
I was speaking in generalities, if that wasn't extremely obvious.
Obviously, yes, people are - and should be - constrained in what they can do with their property. Even the most capitalist systems on earth place restrictions on property. I didn't think it was necessary to caveat that control of private property is not absolute or without consequences. I'm not aware of any capitalist systems that do not put greater protections on people that control large amounts of property (see monopoly, environmental, antitrust, public securities law, etc. Most of those are basically irrelevant to people who don't own large amounts of property).
The point is that for property to mean anything at all, an owner must be allowed to direct the use of that property. What's the point of owning a house if I can't make any decisions about what to do with it. I don't really own a house if I can't decide that I want to live in it, or to sell it.
Yes, but what if you own 100 houses? I'm pretty sure there is some number N of houses (or total value of houses) where I would be fine telling the person, "You don't get to decide what to do with these houses anymore, they're going to be given to people who need houses." Not as a matter of antitrust or monopoly but just directly as a matter of an individual controlling too much wealth.
Aside from that, once you admit that there can be restrictions on property rights, it's unclear how property rights in and of themselves is a steelman of private equity. Why not just say that "you can't sell to private equity" is one of the restrictions? Or, perhaps more subtly, why not say that a private equity company of a certain size is not allowed to buy any additional company, independent of what rights that company's owner has to sell?
There is a lot of stuff you're saying here that sounds simple but isn't.
...once you admit that there can be restrictions on property rights, it's unclear how property rights in and of themselves is a steelman of private equity. Why not just say that "you can't sell to private equity" is one of the restrictions?
What do you think that would look like in practice? Private equity is investment in non-public companies -- the purchase of shares in non-public companies or the purchase of the companies outright. In many cases, the private equity firms themselves are public; but in many cases, they are private, as well.
There isn't a way to make a rule that "you can't sell to private equity" but there can be a rule like "you can't sell a private company at all" or "public investment funds can not purchase shares in private companies" -- if you try a few of the variations that are possible, you'll see that they're all bad rules, I think.
You really have to think about hard about what you mean by "a private equity company". It's not as easy as it looks. If a manufacturing firm starts to buy up suppliers (many of which are small, private entities), is it a private equity company? It's buying up non-public companies.
My point with these arguments is just to say that private property rights are not a steelman for private equity. I'm not saying that these are simple answers to the claim that we need private equity, I'm just saying that the concept of private property is also not a simple answer to the claim that we don't need private equity.
That said, I agree with you to some extent. I think it's not actually so hard to define what I think is bad about private equity, but it's true that that badness is not confined to private equity. In particular I think the distinction between public and private companies is almost entirely meaningless; what we should care about is what companies do, whether they are publicly traded or not. From that perspective private equity is not really different from publicly traded "holding companies" that do basically the same thing.
The crux of it, for me, is companies that are just doing "the business of business", and are not organized around human beings doing things that they genuinely care about and want to do a good job at. You can never run a good company by trying to run "a company", rather than trying to run a steakhouse, or a pet groomer, or a bank, or a car wash, or some particular company that does a particular thing. The problem of both private equity and public "holding companies" is that they value money to the point that they no longer sufficiently value the actual substance of the good or service that the business provides.
Berkshire Hathaway is in some sense also PE (though done by a public company that you can invest in) and Warren Buffett's culture is to find great companies run by great managers and let them cook. That long-term view is the exception and not the rule though.
While not perhaps the best argument is the private equity provides liquidity for founders that want to exit. If you started business X, you’ve grown it for 20-40 years and you want to retire, selling is typically the answer. Let’s say the business makes $1m/yr after tax cash flow, PE might buy for $10m, besides PE there aren’t a bunch of likely buyers for your business (of course maybe there is a big competitor, and maybe you could sell it to an employee (but they probably don’t have the money and would need you to seller finance etc)). So for entrepreneurs with a successful small business (say $2-5m+ of ebitda) selling to private equity is the clearest path to a liquidity event for them.
I don't think I agree with this, most of the regulation I see is for patient protection. Stark, AKS, HIPPA, etc... are all strong regulation aimed at protecting individuals.
From fee-splitting prohibitions to FDA regulated medical devices, almost all of the day to day regulations I've dealt with in healthcare are squarely aimed at ensuring safety, protecting privacy, preventing fraud and controlling costs.
The economist did a piece in defense of private equity a few months ago. Basically boils down to more efficient resource allocation across an entire economy, deep pools of capital to rapidly transform businesses into things people want to buy from.
I live in a small midwest market, and all the landscaping companies are locally owned and awful.
PE bought two of them, combined them into one, and now they, at about the same cost, do what they say they are going to do, answer the phone, hire competent people, and do a good job.
Likewise, PE has bought up most of the local plumbing and HVAC, and that's been a bit of a bummer, and gotten more expensive, but if you need someone right now, they are there (and answer the phone, etc), as opposed to the local concern who may be on vacation and can get back to you in 2 weeks.
There are some really good local small businesses/trades people, but like the 1950s, in a lot of aspects they are overly romanticized.
My controversial opinion: chains/large businesses are more convenient, cheaper, better (and more consistent) service, and the big one: you can complain up the chain when a local branch/franchise fucks up vs dealing with a sole proprietor. There's plenty of small businesses I do value (thrift stores, bodegas, etc), but for services? The choice is obvious.
At a general level, PE (and really much of capitalism generally) is built around the idea that financial efficiency should be the guiding principle re: capital allocation, so the steelman argument is that PE takes financially inefficient businesses, makes them more financially efficient, and that is good because that's the best way to allocate capital.
a financially inefficient business may be a business that employs more people than it absolutely needs, a business that treats customers/vendors more generously than it absolutely needs to, or even a business that exists as a going concern that would be more financially efficient if sold off for parts or went into bankruptcy.
i personally don't believe financial efficiency should be the guiding principle for everything or really anything, and I believe as a society we should account more for non-financial efficiencies (like treating human beings generously and kindly), and I think it's fine for an inefficient business to continue existing if that means more people have jobs for longer or customers/vendors are treated more generously. fundamentally, i think this line of thinking is dehumanizing, as it views the world (humans, nature, information, knowledge etc.) as resources/materials and not much else.
that all being said, i at least understand the principles and the materialist idea that everything can be viewed as material/resource and why people pursue them (esp because pursuing them effectively can make you fabulously wealthy).
i often say when talking about this stuff with friends: if you're willing/able to see everything (including/especially people) as resource/material, you're well positioned to obtain a lot of material resources/material. whether that's a good thing for you or the rest of the world is another question (and my view is that it's straight up bad).
As others have mentioned, venture capital is a form of private equity.
Private equity is investment in non-public companies. A lot of good has come from investment in non-public companies over the years.
Why can't all investment be in public companies? Not every company can go public: the regulatory and administrative requirements are high. Why are they high? To protect public investors -- to protect the general public.
In the past, many people put together fraudulent enterprises, sought investment from the public and then walked away with the money, perhaps even pretending to run the business for a while so there was convincing failure story. The regulatory and administrative requirements are there to make this harder, by requiring certain governance and reporting procedures.
The requirements are high enough that a new venture can not get started by going to public markets -- and in fact may run for several years before it is able to.
> employers expect health care plan costs to rise by an average of 11 percent per worker in 2027, unless benefits are cut
I am sure most workers would prefer to get that extra 11% as a cash raise, but because healthcare costs are out of control the same care costs 11% more.
Certainly some companies will throw up their arms and hire someone overseas instead.
Australia is on its way down this path after Brookfield / Healthscope was holding a private hospital hostage against the government and had performance so degraded a child died. Hopefully we (aus) continue down this path of burning off the rot.
when people talk about how healthcare needs to be better and better and more and more, I say "tell me under your plan what diseases/injuries to what extant will not be treated: who do you say "no" to? Every country could spend every collective nickel they have, and some people still would not live to see the next morning, but in a way that's ok because there probably wouldn't be any breakfast either, that money was spent on healthcare.
What exactly are you calling for? I thought millenial and genz home ownership was the problem we need to fix. Are we going to sacrifice hipster housing for healthcare? Since most healthcare today is probably needed by boomers, think carefully about your answer.
Very strange comment. I would encourage you to read the specifics of the actual case. The hospital was severely under resourced resulting in a simple case being neglected and the child dying. The child could have received basic treatment and they would have survived.
Underresourcing the hospital was a deliberate decision by Brookfield to push for a government bail-out. Anyone who made money off this should be in jail.
Absolutely no idea what the rest of your comment is about. Our hospitals should have the resources to treat a sick child. Some might say that's the entire point of society.
You're fighting a losing battle advocating for public stewardship of anything on this website. The majority of people I've spoken with here are American, doing very well for themselves, and aspirational entrepreneurs.
They have no concept of how much cheaper medical care can be. They don't realise there is enough for everyone. They are blind to the fact that many other countries care for all of their people for a fraction of the price. The people on this forum live in a strange parallel reality where there is only enough to go around, even though that hasn't been true for a very long time.
So when people ask why they don't provide for the poor or fix their broken healthcare system by introducing single-payer healthcare, they'll speak to you like you're an idiot or a child. "Who is going to pay for that?", they ask, while paying an order of magnitude more for a GP visit than any other citizen of any other nation does. To them, you just have a poor understanding of economics.
I don’t have a problem with privately owned clinics, but I do think it should have to be majority owned by the operators. What percentage of that 45% is just doctors that run their own office vs. investment firms.
I agree there is still a long way to go. I hope this case shows that there is political will and ability to push back against private equity rot. Many of the commenters here treat these forces as inevitable and unstoppable - but it is possible to take ground back against them. It's unfortunate it took the death of a child for this to happen.
Most important, Private Equity - it's creeping like a cancer into good health systems, even in Europe, to slowly but surely siphon away all that is good.
It's important to fight it now before it is too late and other places also fall apart into a degraded, predatory, dystopian US system !
Make it a leverage limit. Otherwise you’ll have other players come in and replicate the playbook.
The short-term fix is banning PE. The long-term one is restricting the leverage these groups can take. Then put limits on upstream leverage. We have these across our economy. We just don’t apply them to this sector.
Most state bar associations require a lawyer (or group of them) to own law firms. That _doesnt_ prevent law firms from doing crazy deals to gain liquidity for their partners, including from private equity.
Dictating who has to “own” something just incentivizes people to separate ownership from financial benefit. In most cases that’s just plain worse than letting real ownership happen.
If there is a business practice you don’t like, regulate the practice, not the corporate structure.
Medicine is extremely capex intensive and only become more so. Sucking private capital out of healthcare is going to make it vastly worse for everyone; higher prices and less innovation. I think we can criticize the often ruthlessness of PE while realizing that limiting medicine's ability to invest would be a huge self-own and only force further centralization into the biggest non-profit centers.
Medicine is already held back enough by the lack of ability to use debt to finance its sales, unlike almost every other industry; you can repossess a car but you can't repo an implant or administered drug, forcing everything to be paid for in cash upfront. Medicine needs as much access to capital as it can get.
I wonder if ai can help doctors reclaim their practices, as the bureaucracy of dealing with insurance may become easier. Administrative overhead must be cheaper with ai. It was the main reason for consolidation and giving up management to hospitals and private equity.
I think it's more likely AI will cause disruption by ruthlessly optimizing on behalf of individuals.
Private Equity can afford to have people sitting around all day figuring out tricks and optimizations to save a buck here and there, and this is a power imbalance because the plebs care about things like spending time with their family, and they don't spend all their time trying to save a buck.
Maybe one day the AIs will optimize for us while we spend time with our families. And if a new vet opens that costs $15 less, the AI will route customers to the new business, driving prices down, until we reach 0 profit margin across all industries.
There's probably like a 10 trillion dollar incentive to not allow AI to truly work on behalf of individuals though, so we'll see what happens. For instance, just look at the ad industry alone; if AIs are shopping truly on behalf of individuals, and this becomes wide spread, then the ad industry is just gone.
Optimization of medical care in usa is mostly limited by regulation and fear of lawsuits. Neither of which is going away. You can always get cheaper care in other parts of the world.
AI can help doctors with the administrative side but insurance companies are also deploying AI. We're seeing an escalating arms race with provider AIs battling against payer AIs.
That's only one part of economies of scale. The technical and legal compliance costs for running a provider organization are also killing small practices. And provider organizations also consolidate in order to gain power for negotiating rates with commercial insurers.
There's a pattern to the kinds of companies PE buys and I think it points to the real problem.
They like companies with some kind of moat that makes it hard to unseat them. Basically, companies where there is no alternative for the consumer. That way, they can inflict abuse but know there will be nowhere to run.
There are two different ways to achieve this. Monopoly and regulation. Hospitals have both government granted locational monopoly and tons of regulations that make it impossible to compete.
Private equity is the symptom, not the disease.
Until we get at the disease, new monsters will be born with different name filling the same ecological niche. It's economic natural selection played out in the environment we created.
Is there such a pattern? I'm not aware of any data pointing towards one, and I know lots of businesses with no monopoly or regulatory moat that have been acquired by private equity firms. I think people just don't care when PE buys businesses that don't seem very important.
If PE buys something that doesn't have a moat then they can't enshittify it because the customers would immediately switch to alternatives.
They often still buy those things, e.g. when there is a failing company in a competitive market that could do better with new management, but then no one complains about it because they're not making the product worse (and can't because there is actual competition).
Genuine Q: Are they buying failing businesses because they see potential and want to get those on the right track, or are they buying them because their forecast tells them they can still make money, before shutting them down for eternity?
It doesn’t matter to PE as long as they can make a profit.
Buy a failing business and leverage debt on it until you can’t, spend the money on yourself restructuring the business.
Buy a working business and gut it for multiple.
Buy failing businesses to offset tax burden.
This a meta level game, they don’t care about the outcome as long as it produces profit.
Product quality goes down the drain? That product is retirement homes, healthcare, food, utility, schools, it doesn’t matter. There is a million levels of separation and paperwork and a corp structure to prevent shit swimming up the stream.
Net result, if you live in America look around you, go to an auto service center, or a clinic. It’s been gutted for profit one way or another.
Regulation is usually what you accept in exchange for a monopoly. I would argue a granted monopoly without any regulation is evidence of regulatory capture.
If you want to argue from first principles, and we accept for a moment that granted monopoly is the system we are working in (whether or not you feel it's the optimal regime) then I'd argue there's a clear gap in regulation, as flagrant abuse of the consumer has not been prevented.
Not really. Monopolies are an invitation to competition: Your margin is my opportunity, as it were. They are therefore hard to maintain absent some kind of external force to support it: Regulations (regulatory capture), licensing, explicit grant from the government, intellectual property laws, or some kind of collusion or market manipulation (more leading to oligopolies rather than monopolies).
This is how industrial barons of the early-mid 20th century operated, as an example, with collusion and price fixing type things. Or hospitals and medical facilities today with certificate-of-need laws enforced by the government.
This is inaccurate - natural monopolies are a thing.
Monopolies happen due to barriers to entry, and not all barriers to entry are government-created or illegal: network effects, big upfront costs, economies of scale, control of a scarce resource, etc.
Regulation can produce a monopoly, but lots of regulations also exist to keep natural monopolies in check.
Partially true. Good regulations seem to be ones that force open protocol and interoperability. This re-enforces the better angles of the market.
I'm certainly glad that I'm not on AOL's internet. And also glad that internet exists in part due to Bell's telephone system being forced open.
Bad regulations do not seem to have that characteristic. It's too bad we do not have vocabulary to tell them apart. Public good type regulations are more muddy and can be used as a weapon more often than not.
On the other hand, high trust societies can pass somewhat public good regulations. Lower trust ones don't have that luxury.
Most people, especially governments, aren't positioned to analyse monopolies.
>Regulation can produce a monopoly, but lots of regulations also exist to keep natural monopolies in check.
My favourite example of this is Australias NBNCo.
Every midwit on the street capable of reading a newspaper would tell you, theres a NATURAL MONOPOLY on internet services, which is why Australia needed NBNCo.
However, the enabling legislation also made it a federal crime to overbuild the NBN, because the internet isnt a natural monopoly. We have also had calls to nationalise other fibre networks, and lots of cases of NBN overbuilding other networks.
The truth of it, is that Natural Monopoly is just a thought terminating cliche. There are barriers to entry to markets, but the only kind of monopoly is regulatory. Unless you regulate some dipshit will find a way to sneak a fibre through your power duct or something. If there was enough of an interest, we could have multiple power or water hookups too. There's no reason why we cant have competitive garbage collection, and theres probably somewhere on the planet that does. Even pit and pipe isnt a monopoly, I have seen plenty of places with multiple pit providers.
Take garbage hauling. You have five haulers running the exact same routes through town, stopping at different houses. Government is unhappy with the tremendous added wear on the roads from the redundant trucks, and the extra traffic, so it strikes a deal and grants exclusivity to one hauler.
This is a granted monopoly. It has real positives, such as the same service at 5x less road wear. It should also be obvious that to be positive overall the deal needs to prevent abuse of the public.
If there are 5x as many truck runs, the trash per truck is 1/5th.
The more likely result is that each of the providers runs far fewer trucks than a single provider would because trucks and drivers cost money. Unless the 5 companies figure out how to get the total revenue to 5x, they can't pay for that.
Let's do an example.
Suppose we have a street with 100 houses and it takes 5 houses to fill a truck. Therefore, it will take 20 truck runs to collect that street's trash.
If there is only one trash company, it will need 20 truck runs to service that street.
If there are five trash companies, each with an equal share of those 100 houses, each of those companies needs only 4 runs to service its 20 houses. Why would any of them do more runs?
Yes, the average distance per run may be higher for the 5 companies, but it won't be 5x.
> Yes, the average distance per run may be higher for the 5 companies, but it won't be 5x.
You contradict yourself at the end of the comment. Yes, it could be estimated a linear equation (mx + b) where m is the cost per house and b is the cost per route, roughly. And then you could have a system of which equations, where each row in the system’s matrix corresponds to an additional company.
The optimal result is probably not 1 company, but it’s probably not 1 company per house either
Some part of Ohio functions as a granted monopoly for the power company.
They are given 5-year contracts, but an agency exists to tabulate complaints, reaction time to outages, and so on. If they don't impress the agency near the end of their contract, it will be opened up for market bidding.
Because of this pressure, the monopoly power company has even been known to reduce rates, proving a priori that they are indeed serving the public interest at a commendable level.
> They like companies with some kind of moat that makes it hard to unseat them.
The biggest moat is capital.
PE is buying up things like medical practices, law firms, vets, etc, where typically there would be an upwards path for one generation to hire new blood to cover their markets and then sell partnership stakes to them when they want to retire. But why should an owner of a practice sell to their junior staff when PE is there offering 2, 3, 5x as much?
Consolidation of these kinds of businesses at the hands of PE is endemic of systemic lack of capital acquisition of a generation of people, held down by debt and concerns about practical shit like healthcare.
PE is just a symptom of larger macro economic trends, namely the depletion of the next generation from free cash they could use to become business owners.
These PE-owned companies create market demand by being shitty. Somehow they are able to keep their margins and their market so that their business model makes sense. That's a puzzle, right?
There is no shortage of investment looking for great returns. A market with huge demand not being met adequately is a dream to investors. Even more when you know the competition must continue to fuck their customers because they paid above market rates for the purchase and the business is saddled with debt obligations it must meet (Leveraged buyouts do that).
What could stop new competition from beating them out?
It is capital? It’s going to the same PEs and private markets.
Who the hell is going to take the risk on and for what? Take x billon dollars to build from scratch or near guaranteed profit to buy 50 practices and shittify them for near guaranteed profit.
Show me an example of trend reversal please of this happening in any sector. These are essentials and basics and they are captured, this isn’t a froyo start up that has a 3 year cycle.
The PE firm creates market demand for the goods/services that the purchased company used to provide at a better value to the customer.
So yes, the 'creation' is a demand which is sort of a destruction of the value that the customers previously had. In a fair market, this demand can be met. But a PE buys strategically such that this demand is not possible to satisfy because the company they purchased is entrenched in some way (regulation/monopoly).
> But why should an owner of a practice sell to their junior staff when PE is there offering 2, 3, 5x as much?
The better question is, why does a medical practice have a moat? What exactly is the PE firm buying? When the senior doctor retires, what stops the junior one(s) from renting their own offices and taking their patients with them?
The answer is presumably something like, non-compete agreements, or vendor lock-in from EMR systems, or some kind of insurance or regulatory bureaucracy. So then we need to identify what it actually is and do away with it.
I'm unsure if I'm reading you correct. Are you saying that the disease is all "monopoly and regulation", or just some of it? Healthcare, infrastructure, etc are natural monopolies, and the alternative isn't much better. No one wants four parallell roads or multiple competing electrical grids, or side-by-side hospitals.
We however don't want unnatural monopolies that have enough capital to swat away any competition, nor do we want natural monopolies taken over by rent-seekers.
If for-profit healthcare is allowed then it could be regulated like banking, with requirements to prevent failure (including requirements for financial health), and if there is failure, to ensure customers are protected and provide for continuity.
Like banks, failure of a healthcare institution can be destructive for its customers and the community. If a bank goes under, especially a significant one for the community, regulators see that it's acquired by a surviving institution - often with only a weekend of downtime.
I feel like medical practices should be like law firms where effectively non-lawyers can’t own equity and equity owners have to comply with ethics and code of conduct rules…
Most doctors don't want to be business owners. It used to be that they were kind of forced to operate in partnerships but now most choose to become employees. This might be worse for patients but for better or worse there's no going back.
Also, I don't think they're particularly opposed to owning their practice. I can understand them not wanting to manage a business. But for that problem, they can hire professional managers. Which is basically how hospitals work; if the doctors all want the CEO replaced, he gets fired. There's a physicians board and the trustees tend to listen to it.
So you're proposing to create a privileged class of investors with MD degrees who are protected from competition and will be able to earn above-market returns on their equity? Why would we want provider organizations to have a higher cost of capital? Makes no sense at all.
Yes they will earn above market return on a lower capital base with medical shares in medical practice trading closer to book value - and the economics are the profit share not equity value of the firm. Earning $250k/yr on a $1m capital contribution requires a whole lot less rent seeking than earning the same $250k on a $5m share purchase.
If you want to look at it that way there's already a much worse problem; a "privileged class" of service providers has a government-enforced total monopoly on the market for medical practice!
Can you cite - antidotally the only doctors I know that would rather be an employee work for big hospital chains or already sold their practice for a pile and are happy with less responsibility.
I did a small research project based on medical billing challenge data (https://medgis.te0.io/). I tried to correlate the data to PE firms (best effort). As far as I could tell they were just a volume player but not the worst. After talking to people in the industry, theres some real sleezy doctors out there. Some do appointments at hospitals even if not required so they can charge more. There’s more anecdotes. All the incentives are messed up and I’m not sure how to fix without policy changes.
Younger veterinarians are drowning in school debt and can't buy the practices from the older folks that are retiring. So, private equity is basically snatching all of them up right now, betting that childless millennials are going to pay tons of money on veterinary care when their pandemic pups begin to reach end-of-life.
They're going to cut wages for all the staff, and hike all the prices, because unlike with human medical care, there's hardly any regulation (yet).
Up here in Canada, we've seen vet clinics rapidly go corporate in the last couple of decades. Even ignoring prices, the degradation in the quality of care offered is stark. Vets working for corporate clinics are heavily micromanaged. They get less time per animal, are pressured into certain diagnoses and prescriptions, etc.. A lot of us now refuse to take our pets to clinics that aren't owned by the vets working there. Unfortunately, in many places there aren't a lot of options.
To put humans through this kind of misaligned system is the stuff of nightmares.
I would say there’s nothing humane about this, but there’s a certain section of the population who read too much Ayn Rand at too impressionable an age, or saw Wolf of Wall Street as aspirational, that very much rationalize their own behavior as natural.
What is so costly about a veterinary practice that new veterinarians can't just start their own? Why would they need to buy one? There is certainly some benefit to working for some one for a while, and maybe eventually buying out an established practice... but if they want too much for it, just start your own?
If you start your own veterinary practice, and eventually build up a steady stream of happy customers, then sooner or later the PE firms will come knocking on your door, too.
Imagine you're drowning in student debt and worrying about keeping your business afloat, when someone offers you $5M, and says you'll still get to work with animals, which you love, while they take care of the financial and business side, which you didn't enjoy. It's a no brainer for most people.
No way. I think most people realize “they are offering me $5M because they know they’ll make a good profit on this business. That means it’s worth more.”
it is worth more, but you have to do 100% of the work to get 25% more upside.
Or take $5m and get no more upside and 70% less work. The "work" here is dealing with regulations, insurance companies, administration, payments, and accounting, not actually looking after dogs
the PE model is often to provide a competent regtech/administration core and then plug heaps of regulated businesses into it and centralise all the admin
imagine opening a vet in SF in 1950 in a cheap shoplot and people just paid you with hard cash or cheques in person, you wrote receipts with a biro, and filed taxes once or twice a year on a few sheets of paper... compared to now
I think that's true to an extent. And, especially successful people, often would rather be their own boss for less money than to be a corporate cog. Having the freedom to make ethical judgements yourself and build local community is a real luxury. We are, mostly, just social animals that want to build our status by helping each other out in the end.
Two things, I think, might make the decision for them, in spite of that:
- The money is actually more than their business could be projected to make alone. This is because the PE firm isn't just buying the single practice but every practice in the area to kill competition. Get that captive audience as GP mentioned.
- The personal ownership freedom can be already lost on these independent people if they feel they are already tied down too much. I know this is especially the case in small medical offices where insurance and regulation can over-rule them. Feeling like you don't have control in this way can cause a lot of depression (tangent but look up how we condition mice in order to test treatments of antidepressants on them). At that point, the monied exit starts looking like a better option.
Indeed. But remember a PE firm has economies of scale because they own many vet practices. They can negotiate better rates with suppliers than you can, and better payment terms. Maybe they even own some of those suppliers. They can divide their advertising costs by all the practices they own, whereas you can't.
Even if you were willing to be as ruthless as a PE firm, raising your prices and sacking half your staff, and even if you were somehow an expert in financial engineering and business optimization, you still won't make the business as profitable as they can.
* Most small brick & motor businesses do not turn a profit in their first 2 years. So you’ll need a significant amount of runway, in a business where raising capital isn’t guaranteed.
* There’s probably more cost in medical supply, equipment, and certification than you’d expect. There’s standards for security of the medications.
* Most veterinary clinics have staff. That’s payroll expenses.
* Any new business will need marketing. You’ll probably want a large sign/billboard, a decent website, and social media.
* Just leasing office space and furnishing it is surprisingly expensive.
My life goal that I can't work on yet is to run vet clinics as a non-profit in locations where private equity has a monopoly and are in extraction mode. With operational excellence, I think they can be out-competed by running a cost effective practice, so people don't have to decide between putting their pet down prematurely, and spending $5k per night (yes, that happened to my friend in San Francisco. $5k/night is not an exaggeration).
The predatory businesses are able to do the extraction only because of the practical monopoly they have in a neighborhood.
I believe the ops can be open sourced and replicated franchise style. And vets, who originally get into the career because they love animals will be drawn to it, and they have bills to pay, but that can be taken care of with a reasonable payment structure.
I hope someone else does this so I don't have to. But I think I have to at some point. I'd also love to hear if this is a dumb idea.
Good luck to you and I sincerely hope that you succeed. It's not a dumb idea.
But on the human side many health systems are non-profit, and they generally aren't any cheaper or better quality than their for-profit competition. The real problem is local market power and lack of anti-trust enforcement.
I’be been similarly interested and long ruminating about whether it would be possible to achieve something similar to this in the restaurant industry. For example to have a non profit operating a franchise of a fast food location and instead of having thw 20% corporate tax rate and profit going towards retained earnings and dividends to instead be reinvested in the mission which would be better, more nutritious ingredients to better healthily feed your local customers and two to provide the staff a livable wage. Like you, I keep turning it over in my head and contemplating it rather passively as it’s way outside of my lane of Data Engineering, but I’d like to think that the market would eventually identify this as viable if it at all would be. With the ever looming fear of layoffs and future of future employment in writing software I keep thinking about that scene of the firing in “Up In The Air” where the guy they let go had always dreamt of being a chef and was finally able to pursue it after getting laid off from his high paying job that he had come to hate. Typed on my phone with my cat on my lap ; so plz excuse any run on sentences or imperfections.
I love this idea but I think the PE angle also means suppliers and vendors will charge them far less for bulk order and those suppliers/vendors themselves may be a horrible little mix of MBA-brained owner practices that actively upcharges small businesses who have far less negotiating leverage
I think the only way to do it is to have your neighborhood actively being okay with seeking local services something that a lot of neighborhood groups I frequent seem to be a big fan of (farmer's markets are an indication of this - if there's a strong and regular FMs being hosted, there's people willing to burn a little extra disposable income for better, more reliable products)
I'd be curious to hear of your progress on this idea. Its not dumb, and it sounds similar to what co-ops do.
>I hope someone else does this so I don't have to.
This is a type of challenge I've been thinking of a lot. A "you have to dedicate your whole life to becoming X" challenge - I had the thought of doing something similar here in Canada with groceries. An obviously profitable business where the challenge is "how do you resist a sweetheart buyout" when the cartel comes knocking with cash...
Yes please, add vets to the bill. The problem you’re describing gets exacerbated when PEs buy practices. They undercut the very few other surviving practices and remove any ability for new practices to open up. In the last 3 years, we went from 10 to just 3 emergency vets in a 20 mile radius. Now if I need to go to an emergency vet, I drive half an hour if there’s no traffic and pay $200 to just be seen.
This insanity is creating a crisis amount of pets being abandoned, and then euthanized by the animal services. People can’t afford to have pets anymore.
I visited the veterinarian recently for a routine exam of my dog. The vet gave the exam and at the end of it, a technician handed us what looked like an invoice. The invoice had like 12 different items on it and totaled $1,400. No explanation, and no differentiation between items.
We were flabbergasted. Asked the tech what was optional or what was required as part of our visit and he said, oh, just the top line item for the exam. $95.
It has to be illegal to do that. I feel like next time I go in there they are going to give me the ol' Clark Stanley runaround.
PE buys up hospitals to gut them, make them less capable, and cheaper to run.
Then, they buy up air ambulance services to unnecessarily fly patients to other hospitals they own because it's more profitable at the expense of care delays and worse outcomes. Meanwhile, patients and their families are stuck with exorbitant air ambulance bills $20k-60k.
My main problem with PE is that it is being invested in by things that I do not consider "investors" like retirement funds, teacher's pensions, annuities, etc. Many of these things have sort of implicit guarantees from the State or Federal government. These organizations should be completely banned from investing in PE. PE investments should only be invested in by "investors", and investors understand that their investment may go to zero.
I feel it would be good to bring in (or back) compulsory partnership structures for key professional businesses like GPs, dentists, pharmacies, vets and accountants.
The PE buy-up of these core local businesses isn't great for society generally, service delivery and the existence of a middle class.
The other thing I feel gov should do is force a separation of distributors and point of sale, with rules that allow smaller business to buy at the same pricing as larger.
People seem to forget a key requirement of capitalism is for government to create a level playing field for business. I cant see a better way to do this, and I suspect it would be very beneficial to the bulk of society if gov made some changes down this line.
If you want to look at how similar laws have played out in practice recently at the state level, look up 2026 CPOM (Corporate Practice of Medicine) laws in Oregon, California, and Washington or Massachusetts in 2025.
I'm not so sure limiting competition is the way to go here. One thing I hate about US healthcare is the lack of price transparency. They would rather shut an entire hospital down before giving you a price sheet. So when outfits like Walmart were looking to get into healthcare and offer basic services like blood tests, checkups, xrays, and common procedures available for flat fees and published prices, the reaction of the US healthcare community was that of a primal scream of terror, and they - specifically hospital groups -- have mobilized an army of lobbyists to try to prevent anyone else from competing.
Hospitals are massive byzantine organizations with so many management layers and so many shady billing techniques, from charging for procedures not performed, to changing what they charge you based on when they find out how much you can pay, it's crazy. What other business forces you to sign a waiver agreeing to pay whatever they decide to charge you, without them telling you what that is, or they will refuse to serve you?
246 comments
[ 0.24 ms ] story [ 47.9 ms ] threadI already hear the downsides frequently from someone whose work is directly affected.
Should they be outlawed from selling to certain classes of investor? Which?
Yes.
I'd expand that to any type of business that has effectively inelastic demand through the ability to hold people emotionally hostage.
So, for example, in addition to hospitals also include veterinarians, funeral services, family planning, etc.
Soulless PE vultures should be barred from all of this.
People who are vehemently against PE generally do not have any idea of how the system works
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-06-06/private-e...
https://archive.is/27tJr
It makes sense to me that someone could come in and say "hey, let me run the business + finance side of the house while you practice medicine" and at least on paper I can see a real world where that works out for everybody.
Of course, soon you end up with dentists pushing unnecessary procedures and more, so it doesn't always works out that way.
I'm not arguing with you; I'm legitimately curious what happened to that model and why PE has swooped in as more attractive to doctors. Maybe it's the payout and/or the fact that they don't have to handle business owner decisions at _all_ anymore?
An acquaintance doctor in vet med was pitched 10% ownership in a practice buyout; PE would do business management. The doctor countered with the PE company getting 10%, since they won't be doing any medicine. The PE company declined.
It's a false choice. The healthcare system has long dealt with and deal with that situation without private equity.
This is a non-sequitur. The existence of private equity has an effect on how companies are run, not the other way around. Many well-run companies are targeted by PE exactly because they're well-run and have carved out a sizable captive audience for themselves. And when PE takes over, said company usually ceases to be well-run on all metrics except one.
PE exists because of the non-linear relationship between money accumulation and power. This effect means that it is more beneficial for any company to hoard capital as much as it can rather than "waste" it on the wider economy; after accumulating enough capital, the company can pivot away from whatever market it was in before and focus solely on asset management. PE mostly results from too low taxation on inert wealth compounded by zero-interest rate monetary policies.
I'm not a huge fan of PE but the point of economics to deliver cheap and quality goods to consumers not keep people in a job.
In healthcare in US in particular I think the main thing that capital should be (if regulators allow) boutique / specialists that e.g. are the best in the biz at doing MRI scans, in some states my understanding is that it's literally illegal to start a business aiming to make one small part of the process better.
Streamlining everything. Sometimes this is done in a bad faith way, but it’s often not difficult to do it in a good faith way.
Some simple examples:
- right-sizing staff (can be reducing, increasing, or changing roles)
- improving marketing (e.g., simple things like customer reactivation, packaging the product/service better, or just plain, ol’ getting the word out better via stuff like before/after pics or success stories)
- improving operations (e.g., better organization, better processes, better communication, better training, better logistics, etc.)
> Delivering better profit margins?
Improved profit margins are a byproduct of the things listed above.
Contrary to popular belief, being intelligent in one thing does correlate with being intelligent at other things[1]. For doctors, the comparison with private equity (MBAs?) might be close, but it's not hard to imagine the targets of other PE rollups have owners that are more average in intelligence, think plumbing or roofing.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)
Which section of that very long article are you claiming supports your assertion?
Here's a bit from the start of the "Concept" section:
>> In a famous research paper published in 1904,[8] English psychologist Charles Spearman observed that children's performance measures across seemingly unrelated school subjects were positively correlated. The consistent finding of universally positive correlation matrices of mental test results (or the "positive manifold"), despite large differences in tests' contents, has been described as "arguably the most replicated result in all psychology".[9]
That explicitly contradicts your assertion.
vs
>The consistent finding of universally positive correlation matrices of mental test results (or the "positive manifold"), despite large differences in tests' contents, has been described as "arguably the most replicated result in all psychology".[9]
How are they contradictory? Did the first part of my comment make you think there was a negation?
They buy one (or more) companies, often with only the slimmest understanding of what those companies do, slash opex by getting the company with layoffs (yay EBITDA), maybe staple a few companies together with leveraged buy-outs, then resell the whole bundle.
From experience, they don't give a single crap whether the resulting mess still functions. They care about selling the company for more than they bought it for. That prospect is only tenuously and at best accidentally related to whether the company still functions.
The private equity companies I've had to deal with were full of braindead MBA spreadsheet monkeys and used car salesmen. Their chief differentiator was that they worked 80 hours a week and were enthusiastic about paying people off without much deliberation.
It survived, then thrived, by making its products so appealing that customers would buy them anyway.
So, effectively, both.
Value extraction is a short term play. It’s usable by most companies in a pinch, but normally only happens before their death or slow decay into zombie-dom. At least, that’s what my anecdata tells me.
Management often makes terribly unprofitable decisions and often work to protect their slices of the pie rather than the org.
Tech companies are saved by their margins, their aura, and low interest rates.
Better examples might be grocery stores or other low margin businesses that require some fairly ruthless prioritization (at least that is what I’m to understand)
To your care / profitability argument: that is good news! However, I do believe that concern for profitability will always outweigh a care quality argument so there is a misalignment of incentives in that case. I would look to insurers to demonstrate this, generally, but can imagine a PE-owned hospital system might attempt similar measures.
Ideal outcome is a great manager that also cares and ends up paying doctors more and providing excellent care while driving down costs using better processes and negotiating with suppliers. But, uh… not sure how often the benevolent PE firm actually shows up historically.
None of the private equity chains with the sans-serif fonts, simplified logos and trisyllabic names are doing this, though. It's bad marketing. Patients don't want to walk outside to an MRI machine in the parking lot. It feels sketchy. Never mind that they score just as well on the ACR image quality tests as the in-room machines. Who the hell knows what that is?
In reality, it's the county hospitals and big universities that use them! Places that have in-house physicists who can argue for what really makes sense in practice. A major problem with healthcare as a business is that the customer does not usually understand the product, but they still need to buy it, and there are time constraints.
Seems like you could build a hallway around the trailer; if you do it right, nobody knows it's a trailer in the middle of the building. If you do it really well, you can still pull the trailer out.
Maybe they find a buyer in a doctor, maybe they don't, but PE provides them an exit that keeps the practice operating in the community.
Many people don't really run businesses efficiently. There was an interesting video I saw recently where a sole doctor practice made a few changes to their workflow that allowed them to hire more doctors and handle 2x as many people - I would expect a PE firm would pursue similar changes that help increase the number of people they can service, increasing competitiveness and lowering prices in the long run.
I don't know how these tradeoffs interact with patient care, but I wouldn't inherently expect PE to be worse at this than any other operating model.
Ultimately, I think the issue is when people making decisions are able to treat the impact as an abstraction.
My sweet summer child...
PE is scourge in this space. They’ve probably taken over every dental office already and now they push unnecessary procedures and whatever your insurance will bear just because.
Most private practices are small groups, not individuals. It absolutely sucks to have to find a new doctor who’s a good fit for you, when you’ve been seeing the same person for years or even decades. Usually when your doctor retires you rely on them to make a recommendation for a replacement. Usually that’s another partner in their same practice. At the very least, you (historically) expect them to sell the practice to someone they think is a worthy successor. Patients are fairly sticky.
And many of these PE sales require the selling partner to stay on for at least a year or two to ease the patients through the transition and so the patients get used to the changes before the doctor actually retires. That way, sticking around after the doctor retires doesn’t feel like such an upheaval.
PE isn’t that.
If the practice is to continue, there must still be practitioners working there. Id prefer they buy out the one retiring, but the retiree can sell to whoever they want.
One is ambitious, the other is a nepo baby.
In many cases that's a good thing, depending on what we mean by efficient. Lots of people run businesses in ways that make less money than they could, and often that's good.
> I don't know how these tradeoffs interact with patient care, but I wouldn't inherently expect PE to be worse at this than any other operating model.
Doesn't the evidence suggest it is indeed often worse?
Step back and look at what it fundamentally is.
Person A has a business they want to sell.
Person B has a pile of money and thinks that that business is (or can be) a good investment.
That's it.
So, what happens if person A is prohibited from selling their business? Are they forced to keep working because they don't have enough other savings to retire on? Do they shut the business down in order to retire? Something else?
.
Calls to ban private equity are attempts to play "shoot the messenger".
My PE is SaaS heavy portfolio. Pricing strategy, GTM, product roadmap; companies have rev, good moat, good customer base. But clear opportunity to grow rev.
Many companies are held by original founders. Leadership teams in eng and product have been the same for a decade+; lacking exposure to how the industry is shifting. AI, for example, has slow adoption in some cases.
This is what we do. One portfolio company has a product on old tech. We bring in a product team, a CTO, internal tech teams. Help shape a roadmap to tackle the most egregious tech and product debt so teams can move faster. Fix non-existent or outdated pricing strategy that has not evolved with the industry. Fix, grow, or evolve GTM to reach new customers. Help bring fresh leadership resources in when needed.
Industry is typically "boring" and systems are valuable, but aging. We invest, modernize, and try to grow new rev streams, new customers. Portfolio is SaaS focused (can't speak for those that invest in real estate and healthcare).
The employees of the PE also co-invest so everyone is aligned to help the portfolio companies grow and exit. This is a multiyear process.
On side note, its rare to see anyone fixing the old tech, its hard to fix, needs a different kind of talent thats hard to hire for the PE money. The folks who can understand some one else's decade old code and run their imagination through all the possible assumptions or trade off that might have been made in code/system are rare to find.
Finding new customers, finding more things to sell, finding synergies with other items in your portfolio, increasing the price for existing products are more realistic.
Sorry, naming a portfolio company would reveal the PE.
>> The employees of the PE also co-invest
Is this voluntary, or mandatory?
I ask because I've seen clauses along the lines of "75% of bonuses are paid in shares, not available for sale for 5 years."
Using bonus money to buy shares props up the share price, but delays the employee actually seeing the bonus for 5 years. Seems pretty win-lose to me, and kinda puts me off.
Is this a standard practice you mean by co-invest?
(As an aside, I'm not a fan of buying shares where I work, that's not a good portfolio-diversification model. If the business goes under it's not good to lose both your job, and investments, on the same day.)
There is carry and co-invest. Carry is a grant (like options). Co-invest is additional funds that you commit for capital calls when the fund invests. My comp is base + cash bonus (1.#x base) + carry (~2/3 of my base every year for 10 years).
Yes, locked away until some distribution event. Bonus is cash (YMMV), but if you don't already have the capital for a capital call, you're right that your bonus effectively ends up in the fund to meet capital call requirements at some point.
Co-invest is "strongly recommended at the amount specified". Legally, they cannot compel you to, but basically the way it is worded...
Should you co-invest? Look at CalPers for realistic rate of returns. Look at the PE portfolio; do you think it holds? Ask them to walk you through a case study of their timeline with a successful portfolio co. CalPers is not playing around. Some funds will 3x, 4x over the lifetime (historical performance not indicative of future perf). You pay capital gains tax on that earning.
Best case: you already have the cash to cover the co-invest capital calls. Worst case: you are borrowing money or using your bonus to plow more into the portfolio.
I actually made that thought experiment. Disallow selling businesses. Disallow selling shares. Disallow stock market. Disallow mergers. The only way to acquire a business is to found it or to inherit it. The only way to quit a business is to shut it all down, with all assets liquidated, all liabilities settled, and all contracts terminated.
The main downside is that it's harder for to make money. Otherwise... I only see positives. And no, it wouldn't kill innovation. The investors would just have to invest the old fashioned way - by founding companies or expanding their existing businesses. As for job security, we already don't have it in the current system.
Disallow eyeglasses. Abolish money.
Any other good ideas?
In your model, the only possible business owners would be those with major capital resources to begin with, encouraging the spread of existing businesses into a sprawl: Walmart is now your doctor, pharmacist, and pharma manufacturer. Nobody would start a small business because they'd have to carry all liability, any new ideas are limited to spread at a glacially slow pace, because companies can't be aquired or acqui-hired, but can instead only scale on their own revenues.
I'm currently part of a "small" business/factory (around 50 employees). The owner is nearing retirement. Are all 50 of us gonna hit the streets tomorrow? Should our customers, many longstanding over 20 years get their contracts terminated? Do they get any warning? Can they easily switch to other suppliers? Is our offering somewhat unique?
Frankly, I think the thought-experiment is very incomplete if you can't see major downsides.
In this thought experiment, the result would be very similar to what happened, except with less wealth concentration, and with fewer Boeing-McDonnell Douglas mergers that ruin good companies in pursuit of short term profits (because short term profits are harder to realize by design).
Lost jobs are also a lot less of a problem in countries with functioning safety net.
Or you get a loan. Or you get an investor on board. How is that different from the current situation?
> encouraging the spread of existing businesses into a sprawl: Walmart is now your doctor, pharmacist, and pharma manufacturer.
It's happening anyway. My last vaccination was done 100% at Walmart.
> Nobody would start a small business because they'd have to carry all liability
How is that different from the current situation?
> any new ideas are limited to spread at a glacially slow pace, because companies can't be aquired or acqui-hired
Acquisitions are a relatively recent inventions, acqui-hires even more so. People have been doing massive inventions at rapid pace for like 200 years before being bought out by FAANG was a viable business strategy.
> but can instead only scale on their own revenues.
And loans. Don't forget loans.
Sure, you are allowed to start a new business. But where would you get money? You can't sell your dung transport business, and you don't have enough money of your own to just start a new business from scratch.
(never mind that "selling assets" is just a workaround for "selling business")
I am all for serious discussion about shortcomings of my idea. But this isn't it.
You basically want to reinvent the feudalism with its nobility and peasants.
Say "hello" to dynastic marriages, noble lineages, etc. The _best_ case is the system of medieval guilds.
Sell the assets maybe, potentially to somebody who wants to use them to run the same kind of business in the same kind of location with the same employees.
It's hostile to the consumer to call it the same business. A name change gives them the opportunity to decide for themselves whether the new owner is worth supporting. It's similarly hostile to the employees to assume that their loyalties can be bought and sold. Let the new owner of the assets re-hire them for the same position in the same location if he wants to, but lets not have them be for sale.
Maybe it's just a me thing, but every time somebody buys me it makes me angry. Like what if I want to interview the new boss? Isn't the interview supposed to be a both ways thing?
Definitely see how some would prefer the job reconsidered, though. There's no system that makes everyone happy, including to never sell a business.
These things are good to think about; appreciate it.
Well, that is actually a wild thing to say. How could it not be a sellable thing?
The people who presently own the business have a property interest in it -- that's fundamental.
One specific practise I’d like to see banned is private equity buying companies with debt the company then assumes. It staggers me that it’s legal.
What alternative are you imagining?
PE attacks organizational sclerosis, can save companies that otherwise slowly deteriorate, reallocates resources faster, creates an unusually powerful form of corporate governance, Debt can impose useful discipline, can provide capabilities that smaller companies couldn't build themselves.
A society doesn't necessarily benefit from preserving every existing job. It benefits from creating increasingly productive jobs.
This needs to be defined a little bit better.
If I own a hospital that makes infinite money and every patient that comes to it dies the economy measures this is infinite productivity. This is contrived, but really matches some of what we see in real life.
This is why making a measurement a target can be horrifically destructive and contrary to the actual goal society wants.
The west doesn't seem to believe in the idea of social stability over increased profits which can lead to things like corporations being the social structure that is optimized for rather than the wellbeing of the individuals it contains. Left to run out of control the society can collapse.
This is valuable for business owners, because it gives them a way to get the value out of a failing business without having to ride it all the way into the ground.
It's valuable for consumers because it provides locations to shop for halloween supplies.
The steelman argument is that private equity is just property rights. If I build a business I get to decide what to do with it.
What most people are arguing against is a specific kind of PE where an institutional investor will either use aggressive financial engineering to force a profit, even if it kills the business, or when those same investors aggregate market share to the point where it is detrimental to consumers. Sprinkle in a little bit of heartless MBA bullshit, and that is what people specifically don’t like.
In medicine, it's a solution for someone who wants liquidity (buy kids new home, help local dog shelter, add a new mistress) and doesn't want to retire, yet.
The problem is that the terms are custom and YMMV as an existing patient of said practice.
If there's some business that's getting by but the land it's on is more valuable (e.g. for housing) than the business, some investors buy the business, sell the land, make the business account for the land value, wind the business down if it can't, and there are apartments there a few years later.
I don't think that follows necessarily, especially not categorically.
You're gonna need to steelman that again, because in and of itself that is also not something I see as desirable.
If you can't allow property rights then there is no way to steelman people exercising property rights.
Obviously, yes, people are - and should be - constrained in what they can do with their property. Even the most capitalist systems on earth place restrictions on property. I didn't think it was necessary to caveat that control of private property is not absolute or without consequences. I'm not aware of any capitalist systems that do not put greater protections on people that control large amounts of property (see monopoly, environmental, antitrust, public securities law, etc. Most of those are basically irrelevant to people who don't own large amounts of property).
The point is that for property to mean anything at all, an owner must be allowed to direct the use of that property. What's the point of owning a house if I can't make any decisions about what to do with it. I don't really own a house if I can't decide that I want to live in it, or to sell it.
Aside from that, once you admit that there can be restrictions on property rights, it's unclear how property rights in and of themselves is a steelman of private equity. Why not just say that "you can't sell to private equity" is one of the restrictions? Or, perhaps more subtly, why not say that a private equity company of a certain size is not allowed to buy any additional company, independent of what rights that company's owner has to sell?
...once you admit that there can be restrictions on property rights, it's unclear how property rights in and of themselves is a steelman of private equity. Why not just say that "you can't sell to private equity" is one of the restrictions?
What do you think that would look like in practice? Private equity is investment in non-public companies -- the purchase of shares in non-public companies or the purchase of the companies outright. In many cases, the private equity firms themselves are public; but in many cases, they are private, as well.
There isn't a way to make a rule that "you can't sell to private equity" but there can be a rule like "you can't sell a private company at all" or "public investment funds can not purchase shares in private companies" -- if you try a few of the variations that are possible, you'll see that they're all bad rules, I think.
You really have to think about hard about what you mean by "a private equity company". It's not as easy as it looks. If a manufacturing firm starts to buy up suppliers (many of which are small, private entities), is it a private equity company? It's buying up non-public companies.
That said, I agree with you to some extent. I think it's not actually so hard to define what I think is bad about private equity, but it's true that that badness is not confined to private equity. In particular I think the distinction between public and private companies is almost entirely meaningless; what we should care about is what companies do, whether they are publicly traded or not. From that perspective private equity is not really different from publicly traded "holding companies" that do basically the same thing.
The crux of it, for me, is companies that are just doing "the business of business", and are not organized around human beings doing things that they genuinely care about and want to do a good job at. You can never run a good company by trying to run "a company", rather than trying to run a steakhouse, or a pet groomer, or a bank, or a car wash, or some particular company that does a particular thing. The problem of both private equity and public "holding companies" is that they value money to the point that they no longer sufficiently value the actual substance of the good or service that the business provides.
Probably the biggest problem with medical is that it's incredibly regulated for the industry's benefit.
From fee-splitting prohibitions to FDA regulated medical devices, almost all of the day to day regulations I've dealt with in healthcare are squarely aimed at ensuring safety, protecting privacy, preventing fraud and controlling costs.
Gift link: https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2026/02/19/a-love-letter-...
PE bought two of them, combined them into one, and now they, at about the same cost, do what they say they are going to do, answer the phone, hire competent people, and do a good job.
Likewise, PE has bought up most of the local plumbing and HVAC, and that's been a bit of a bummer, and gotten more expensive, but if you need someone right now, they are there (and answer the phone, etc), as opposed to the local concern who may be on vacation and can get back to you in 2 weeks.
There are some really good local small businesses/trades people, but like the 1950s, in a lot of aspects they are overly romanticized.
a financially inefficient business may be a business that employs more people than it absolutely needs, a business that treats customers/vendors more generously than it absolutely needs to, or even a business that exists as a going concern that would be more financially efficient if sold off for parts or went into bankruptcy.
i personally don't believe financial efficiency should be the guiding principle for everything or really anything, and I believe as a society we should account more for non-financial efficiencies (like treating human beings generously and kindly), and I think it's fine for an inefficient business to continue existing if that means more people have jobs for longer or customers/vendors are treated more generously. fundamentally, i think this line of thinking is dehumanizing, as it views the world (humans, nature, information, knowledge etc.) as resources/materials and not much else.
that all being said, i at least understand the principles and the materialist idea that everything can be viewed as material/resource and why people pursue them (esp because pursuing them effectively can make you fabulously wealthy).
i often say when talking about this stuff with friends: if you're willing/able to see everything (including/especially people) as resource/material, you're well positioned to obtain a lot of material resources/material. whether that's a good thing for you or the rest of the world is another question (and my view is that it's straight up bad).
Private equity is investment in non-public companies. A lot of good has come from investment in non-public companies over the years.
Why can't all investment be in public companies? Not every company can go public: the regulatory and administrative requirements are high. Why are they high? To protect public investors -- to protect the general public.
In the past, many people put together fraudulent enterprises, sought investment from the public and then walked away with the money, perhaps even pretending to run the business for a while so there was convincing failure story. The regulatory and administrative requirements are there to make this harder, by requiring certain governance and reporting procedures.
The requirements are high enough that a new venture can not get started by going to public markets -- and in fact may run for several years before it is able to.
I am sure most workers would prefer to get that extra 11% as a cash raise, but because healthcare costs are out of control the same care costs 11% more.
Certainly some companies will throw up their arms and hire someone overseas instead.
The usual complaint is going full extractive mode, desperately squeezing profit and selling inside 3-7 years.
So, yeah, we can keep private investment. But they're fucking stuck with it, trying to maintain a healthy business for 20 years.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-27/nsw-government-joes-l...
when people talk about how healthcare needs to be better and better and more and more, I say "tell me under your plan what diseases/injuries to what extant will not be treated: who do you say "no" to? Every country could spend every collective nickel they have, and some people still would not live to see the next morning, but in a way that's ok because there probably wouldn't be any breakfast either, that money was spent on healthcare.
What exactly are you calling for? I thought millenial and genz home ownership was the problem we need to fix. Are we going to sacrifice hipster housing for healthcare? Since most healthcare today is probably needed by boomers, think carefully about your answer.
Underresourcing the hospital was a deliberate decision by Brookfield to push for a government bail-out. Anyone who made money off this should be in jail.
Absolutely no idea what the rest of your comment is about. Our hospitals should have the resources to treat a sick child. Some might say that's the entire point of society.
They have no concept of how much cheaper medical care can be. They don't realise there is enough for everyone. They are blind to the fact that many other countries care for all of their people for a fraction of the price. The people on this forum live in a strange parallel reality where there is only enough to go around, even though that hasn't been true for a very long time.
So when people ask why they don't provide for the poor or fix their broken healthcare system by introducing single-payer healthcare, they'll speak to you like you're an idiot or a child. "Who is going to pay for that?", they ask, while paying an order of magnitude more for a GP visit than any other citizen of any other nation does. To them, you just have a poor understanding of economics.
Approximately 45% of GPs in Australia work in practices owned by private companies
https://www.monash.edu/business/che/impact-and-engagement/re...
It's important to fight it now before it is too late and other places also fall apart into a degraded, predatory, dystopian US system !
The short-term fix is banning PE. The long-term one is restricting the leverage these groups can take. Then put limits on upstream leverage. We have these across our economy. We just don’t apply them to this sector.
Most state bar associations require a lawyer (or group of them) to own law firms. That _doesnt_ prevent law firms from doing crazy deals to gain liquidity for their partners, including from private equity.
Dictating who has to “own” something just incentivizes people to separate ownership from financial benefit. In most cases that’s just plain worse than letting real ownership happen.
If there is a business practice you don’t like, regulate the practice, not the corporate structure.
Medicine is already held back enough by the lack of ability to use debt to finance its sales, unlike almost every other industry; you can repossess a car but you can't repo an implant or administered drug, forcing everything to be paid for in cash upfront. Medicine needs as much access to capital as it can get.
Private Equity can afford to have people sitting around all day figuring out tricks and optimizations to save a buck here and there, and this is a power imbalance because the plebs care about things like spending time with their family, and they don't spend all their time trying to save a buck.
Maybe one day the AIs will optimize for us while we spend time with our families. And if a new vet opens that costs $15 less, the AI will route customers to the new business, driving prices down, until we reach 0 profit margin across all industries.
There's probably like a 10 trillion dollar incentive to not allow AI to truly work on behalf of individuals though, so we'll see what happens. For instance, just look at the ad industry alone; if AIs are shopping truly on behalf of individuals, and this becomes wide spread, then the ad industry is just gone.
Vets see animals, not humans.
That's only one part of economies of scale. The technical and legal compliance costs for running a provider organization are also killing small practices. And provider organizations also consolidate in order to gain power for negotiating rates with commercial insurers.
They like companies with some kind of moat that makes it hard to unseat them. Basically, companies where there is no alternative for the consumer. That way, they can inflict abuse but know there will be nowhere to run.
There are two different ways to achieve this. Monopoly and regulation. Hospitals have both government granted locational monopoly and tons of regulations that make it impossible to compete.
Private equity is the symptom, not the disease.
Until we get at the disease, new monsters will be born with different name filling the same ecological niche. It's economic natural selection played out in the environment we created.
They often still buy those things, e.g. when there is a failing company in a competitive market that could do better with new management, but then no one complains about it because they're not making the product worse (and can't because there is actual competition).
Buy a failing business and leverage debt on it until you can’t, spend the money on yourself restructuring the business.
Buy a working business and gut it for multiple.
Buy failing businesses to offset tax burden.
This a meta level game, they don’t care about the outcome as long as it produces profit.
Product quality goes down the drain? That product is retirement homes, healthcare, food, utility, schools, it doesn’t matter. There is a million levels of separation and paperwork and a corp structure to prevent shit swimming up the stream.
Net result, if you live in America look around you, go to an auto service center, or a clinic. It’s been gutted for profit one way or another.
If you want to argue from first principles, and we accept for a moment that granted monopoly is the system we are working in (whether or not you feel it's the optimal regime) then I'd argue there's a clear gap in regulation, as flagrant abuse of the consumer has not been prevented.
This is how industrial barons of the early-mid 20th century operated, as an example, with collusion and price fixing type things. Or hospitals and medical facilities today with certificate-of-need laws enforced by the government.
Monopolies happen due to barriers to entry, and not all barriers to entry are government-created or illegal: network effects, big upfront costs, economies of scale, control of a scarce resource, etc.
Regulation can produce a monopoly, but lots of regulations also exist to keep natural monopolies in check.
I'm certainly glad that I'm not on AOL's internet. And also glad that internet exists in part due to Bell's telephone system being forced open.
Bad regulations do not seem to have that characteristic. It's too bad we do not have vocabulary to tell them apart. Public good type regulations are more muddy and can be used as a weapon more often than not.
On the other hand, high trust societies can pass somewhat public good regulations. Lower trust ones don't have that luxury.
>Regulation can produce a monopoly, but lots of regulations also exist to keep natural monopolies in check.
My favourite example of this is Australias NBNCo.
Every midwit on the street capable of reading a newspaper would tell you, theres a NATURAL MONOPOLY on internet services, which is why Australia needed NBNCo.
However, the enabling legislation also made it a federal crime to overbuild the NBN, because the internet isnt a natural monopoly. We have also had calls to nationalise other fibre networks, and lots of cases of NBN overbuilding other networks.
The truth of it, is that Natural Monopoly is just a thought terminating cliche. There are barriers to entry to markets, but the only kind of monopoly is regulatory. Unless you regulate some dipshit will find a way to sneak a fibre through your power duct or something. If there was enough of an interest, we could have multiple power or water hookups too. There's no reason why we cant have competitive garbage collection, and theres probably somewhere on the planet that does. Even pit and pipe isnt a monopoly, I have seen plenty of places with multiple pit providers.
This is a granted monopoly. It has real positives, such as the same service at 5x less road wear. It should also be obvious that to be positive overall the deal needs to prevent abuse of the public.
If there are 5x as many truck runs, the trash per truck is 1/5th.
The more likely result is that each of the providers runs far fewer trucks than a single provider would because trucks and drivers cost money. Unless the 5 companies figure out how to get the total revenue to 5x, they can't pay for that.
Let's do an example.
Suppose we have a street with 100 houses and it takes 5 houses to fill a truck. Therefore, it will take 20 truck runs to collect that street's trash.
If there is only one trash company, it will need 20 truck runs to service that street.
If there are five trash companies, each with an equal share of those 100 houses, each of those companies needs only 4 runs to service its 20 houses. Why would any of them do more runs?
Yes, the average distance per run may be higher for the 5 companies, but it won't be 5x.
You contradict yourself at the end of the comment. Yes, it could be estimated a linear equation (mx + b) where m is the cost per house and b is the cost per route, roughly. And then you could have a system of which equations, where each row in the system’s matrix corresponds to an additional company.
The optimal result is probably not 1 company, but it’s probably not 1 company per house either
They are given 5-year contracts, but an agency exists to tabulate complaints, reaction time to outages, and so on. If they don't impress the agency near the end of their contract, it will be opened up for market bidding.
Because of this pressure, the monopoly power company has even been known to reduce rates, proving a priori that they are indeed serving the public interest at a commendable level.
Monopolies are the result of failure of competition. There's no "invitation" to compete, but a clear warning that a new entrant will have no chance.
This is why profit seeking organisations aim to become a monopoly as then they are guaranteed profits and can abuse customers as they wish.
The biggest moat is capital.
PE is buying up things like medical practices, law firms, vets, etc, where typically there would be an upwards path for one generation to hire new blood to cover their markets and then sell partnership stakes to them when they want to retire. But why should an owner of a practice sell to their junior staff when PE is there offering 2, 3, 5x as much?
Consolidation of these kinds of businesses at the hands of PE is endemic of systemic lack of capital acquisition of a generation of people, held down by debt and concerns about practical shit like healthcare.
PE is just a symptom of larger macro economic trends, namely the depletion of the next generation from free cash they could use to become business owners.
There is no shortage of investment looking for great returns. A market with huge demand not being met adequately is a dream to investors. Even more when you know the competition must continue to fuck their customers because they paid above market rates for the purchase and the business is saddled with debt obligations it must meet (Leveraged buyouts do that).
What could stop new competition from beating them out?
It's not capital.
Who the hell is going to take the risk on and for what? Take x billon dollars to build from scratch or near guaranteed profit to buy 50 practices and shittify them for near guaranteed profit.
Show me an example of trend reversal please of this happening in any sector. These are essentials and basics and they are captured, this isn’t a froyo start up that has a 3 year cycle.
It only works by having more capital to begin with.
Otherwise you wouldn't see consolidation where it shouldn't exist.
The PE firm creates market demand for the goods/services that the purchased company used to provide at a better value to the customer.
So yes, the 'creation' is a demand which is sort of a destruction of the value that the customers previously had. In a fair market, this demand can be met. But a PE buys strategically such that this demand is not possible to satisfy because the company they purchased is entrenched in some way (regulation/monopoly).
The better question is, why does a medical practice have a moat? What exactly is the PE firm buying? When the senior doctor retires, what stops the junior one(s) from renting their own offices and taking their patients with them?
The answer is presumably something like, non-compete agreements, or vendor lock-in from EMR systems, or some kind of insurance or regulatory bureaucracy. So then we need to identify what it actually is and do away with it.
We however don't want unnatural monopolies that have enough capital to swat away any competition, nor do we want natural monopolies taken over by rent-seekers.
Like banks, failure of a healthcare institution can be destructive for its customers and the community. If a bank goes under, especially a significant one for the community, regulators see that it's acquired by a surviving institution - often with only a weekend of downtime.
There’s a reason very few guild-like professions have survived to the present day.
Then they should work for the doctors who do.
Also, I don't think they're particularly opposed to owning their practice. I can understand them not wanting to manage a business. But for that problem, they can hire professional managers. Which is basically how hospitals work; if the doctors all want the CEO replaced, he gets fired. There's a physicians board and the trustees tend to listen to it.
Gasp! The horrors!
Younger veterinarians are drowning in school debt and can't buy the practices from the older folks that are retiring. So, private equity is basically snatching all of them up right now, betting that childless millennials are going to pay tons of money on veterinary care when their pandemic pups begin to reach end-of-life.
They're going to cut wages for all the staff, and hike all the prices, because unlike with human medical care, there's hardly any regulation (yet).
To put humans through this kind of misaligned system is the stuff of nightmares.
And also the natural market equilibrium, apparently.
So... Musk, perhaps... but not this PE enshittification.
Imagine you're drowning in student debt and worrying about keeping your business afloat, when someone offers you $5M, and says you'll still get to work with animals, which you love, while they take care of the financial and business side, which you didn't enjoy. It's a no brainer for most people.
Or take $5m and get no more upside and 70% less work. The "work" here is dealing with regulations, insurance companies, administration, payments, and accounting, not actually looking after dogs
the PE model is often to provide a competent regtech/administration core and then plug heaps of regulated businesses into it and centralise all the admin
imagine opening a vet in SF in 1950 in a cheap shoplot and people just paid you with hard cash or cheques in person, you wrote receipts with a biro, and filed taxes once or twice a year on a few sheets of paper... compared to now
Two things, I think, might make the decision for them, in spite of that:
That's how cynicism can win out. And we all lose.Even if you were willing to be as ruthless as a PE firm, raising your prices and sacking half your staff, and even if you were somehow an expert in financial engineering and business optimization, you still won't make the business as profitable as they can.
* There’s probably more cost in medical supply, equipment, and certification than you’d expect. There’s standards for security of the medications.
* Most veterinary clinics have staff. That’s payroll expenses.
* Any new business will need marketing. You’ll probably want a large sign/billboard, a decent website, and social media.
* Just leasing office space and furnishing it is surprisingly expensive.
The predatory businesses are able to do the extraction only because of the practical monopoly they have in a neighborhood.
I believe the ops can be open sourced and replicated franchise style. And vets, who originally get into the career because they love animals will be drawn to it, and they have bills to pay, but that can be taken care of with a reasonable payment structure.
I hope someone else does this so I don't have to. But I think I have to at some point. I'd also love to hear if this is a dumb idea.
But on the human side many health systems are non-profit, and they generally aren't any cheaper or better quality than their for-profit competition. The real problem is local market power and lack of anti-trust enforcement.
I think the only way to do it is to have your neighborhood actively being okay with seeking local services something that a lot of neighborhood groups I frequent seem to be a big fan of (farmer's markets are an indication of this - if there's a strong and regular FMs being hosted, there's people willing to burn a little extra disposable income for better, more reliable products)
>I hope someone else does this so I don't have to.
This is a type of challenge I've been thinking of a lot. A "you have to dedicate your whole life to becoming X" challenge - I had the thought of doing something similar here in Canada with groceries. An obviously profitable business where the challenge is "how do you resist a sweetheart buyout" when the cartel comes knocking with cash...
This insanity is creating a crisis amount of pets being abandoned, and then euthanized by the animal services. People can’t afford to have pets anymore.
We were flabbergasted. Asked the tech what was optional or what was required as part of our visit and he said, oh, just the top line item for the exam. $95.
It has to be illegal to do that. I feel like next time I go in there they are going to give me the ol' Clark Stanley runaround.
Then, they buy up air ambulance services to unnecessarily fly patients to other hospitals they own because it's more profitable at the expense of care delays and worse outcomes. Meanwhile, patients and their families are stuck with exorbitant air ambulance bills $20k-60k.
The PE buy-up of these core local businesses isn't great for society generally, service delivery and the existence of a middle class.
The other thing I feel gov should do is force a separation of distributors and point of sale, with rules that allow smaller business to buy at the same pricing as larger.
People seem to forget a key requirement of capitalism is for government to create a level playing field for business. I cant see a better way to do this, and I suspect it would be very beneficial to the bulk of society if gov made some changes down this line.
Nice summary of the legal landscape here:
https://www.dlapiper.com/en/insights/publications/2026/07/co...
Hospitals are massive byzantine organizations with so many management layers and so many shady billing techniques, from charging for procedures not performed, to changing what they charge you based on when they find out how much you can pay, it's crazy. What other business forces you to sign a waiver agreeing to pay whatever they decide to charge you, without them telling you what that is, or they will refuse to serve you?
In most states a law firm's owners must all be individuals licensed to practice law (i.e. lawyers).
Why not the same thing for medicine?