The fridge compressor answers to software? Idiocy. It need be nothing more than a relay attached to a thermocouple. I can see having a smart screen to deliver aps/ads and to collect data on people in the home, but why on earth would that need to actually manipulate temperatures?
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone.
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
Does a relay with a thermocouple get you the cycles required for no-frost features? I agree that there should be adequate safeguards at every turn but its not like computerized control of fridge temperature doesn't make sense.
Reminded me of the August incident where the freezers at multiple U.S. Department of Defense commissionaires were remotely triggered to enter into "defrost" mode and cooked all their refrigerated food overnight.
Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?
I am not an SWE, rather a hardware guy with light software experience, and the next home project on my docket is getting AI to write the code for my own ESP32 thermostat (with a nice e-paper display too).
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
No, the better analogy is that your car won't drive because you are out of windshield wiper fluid.
It doesn't need that to operate, except in certain situations. The odds of being hit by a windshield-high wave of mud by a passing truck, when the sky is clear, are very low.
IoT need standardized inter-connection APIs enforced on every participent. If you can defect to another supplier- and ecosystem and he can revive your device after a e.g. a "downdate"- the lock in effect disappears and the competition reappars.
A bimetallic strip thermostat with a ‘cool/off/heat’ mode switch and ‘on/off/auto’ for fan control is all anyone actually needs with a fixed speed compressor and generic furnace with a fixed speed fan.
If you have a fancy modulating furnace and variable speed compressor or a variable speed heat pump, a thermostat that uses a PID would work better.
Fixed speed compressors are okay for AC condensers but for tighter applications like heat pumps a variable speed drive offers a good efficiency gain, the problem is there is no standardization established for the driving of say a variable motor since they are all redesigned and unique so when the controller goes kaputz you are out 3-4000 dollars for something that costs 30 dollars to manufacture
> If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk.
As far as the company is concerned it's primary job is personal data collection and being an ad platform. Anything else it does, like keeping your food cold, is an optional feature that can be remotely disabled at any time.
I do not disagree with your sentiment. We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed] after all. Still there are likely cases where it is useful. Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example. There are plenty of ways to deal with this but one might be a connected refrigerator.
I live with an elderly person (as a caretaker) and find that elderly persons are not always good sources of information about needs. It could be that I am completely wrong about the usefulness of a connected refrigerator (I just look in out 1980's era fridge).
> We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed]
If you’re thinking about the domestic appliance, apparently since 1913 [1], so close enough (what a stupid name, though). AFAICT the first one with something that looks like the modern cooling loop is the first Frigidaire from 1916. But the concept of refrigeration to keep food for longer is older.
As someone who is bad at tracking what food I have in there and how long I have to eat it until it spoils, I can see the use for some automation here and that would be complex enough for convenient updates to make sense.
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
Your fridge must be a complex place to navigate. We have 70cm wide tall Siemens one and what we have vs what is missing is a question of maybe 10-15s check. This covers 4 people.
Chest freezers would be more tricky if full and could take maybe up to a minute but we don't have those. If you are bad at tracking, make a list.
No, we really don't need 'smart' fridges and people should vote with their wallets.
I did not claim that we need smart fridges, only that I can see uses for them. If you can't see that or if you are too upset to be willing to see it that's your problem.
I can imagine one good use: plotting graphs of inner temperature, configured set point, motor on/off status, door open/closed status, and power consumption. But that use case does not require having control of the fridge compressor...
I’d just throw an analog min/max thermometer in there and investigate if the max temp goes above 40F, sounds a lot easier than adding a temp probe and door switch to a residential refrigerator.
There is already a door switch in all the refrigerators I have used. It controls the light (at least I think it does, I have never seen the light go off:)
If the temperature goes out of acceptable range than then it is defective. The only people who need that plot are the lawyers for the class action lawsuit for a defective appliance.
There are scientific reasons to need the plot, but that is not normal and they likely need a special fridge with tighter controls or something anyway.
- it notifies if your kids (or spouse) have left the door open.
- you can use as a tool to check if the power company (or the road maintenance one!) has managed to reconnect the power back (or cut it)
- Other than that not so much.
It might be nice to email me about errors and warnings. But at least my fridge will post errors on the temperature displays, and it's usually the same error (compressor is running too long; better clean the coils).
Plus, since it's a Sub-Zero, it's got a pretty cool finishing move.
We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.
There's an old joke floating around if anyone remembers where it's from:
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
I always joke with people that I hate software in anything but a traditional computers _because_ I'm a software engineer. I want the car with the fewest smart features, a normal door bell, a non-smart washing machine.
Software sucks a lot of the time and it often gets in the way, at least the way it's deployed over the last decade. Very few things in my home should connect to the internet. My phone and computers. Begrudgingly my TV now.
Also, those things that connect to the internet but don't let you have control? They get EOL'd, despite having paid a premium for them. I've never had a stove from this century and they all work fine, because why the hell wouldn't they?
Quitting work years ago helped, even though I still enjoyed software development. I had intended to instead work on my own investments, but I stopped that after I figured out money is a joyless and meaningless motivator.
Mostly just saying no to helping anyone with computer problems. Fortunately changed from Windows 7 to Linux, so I can be mostly honest when I tell people I don't understand their laptop problems.
Said no to helping family with with any printer issues after ~2005. I often print stuff, but I use the printer at my local library or printshop.
I still occasionally dabble, but only for those people I dearly love. I'm still very good at tech support, I just don't do it.
I've got my tech frustration level down to about the background radiation level (as politics or taxes).
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
I'm skeptical of Samsung after having two LCD monitors dies at approximately the same usage hours. I think they were victims of the 2000s capacitor plague.
My house came with Samsung front load washer and drier. They're not wonderful but they're still running for the 6 years I've lived here. I had to replace the drier drum after the rollers deteriorated and gouged out holes in the drum. Then I had to replace the rollers again after a year because I bought cheap rollers :(
Countries with heavy investment in wind and solar are seeing periods of free or negative cost electricity. Ideally, batteries would soak this up for use during peak hours, but smart appliances can be a great way to take advantage. It's a shame that these companies cannot be trusted with our data!
It's true with basically all technology these days. We have a lot of cool and useful technology, but every company who will sell it to you has designed it so that the device you paid for is also being used by them to screw you over.
Could do all that with dumb timers. Funny thing is, the optimal way to run my A/C is simply a consistent temperature 24/7, so my dumb old thermostat is set to that (but it also has a timer if I want).
I have a dishwasher that turned out to have an app. I quite like it, but I am going to try and isolate it and only get it integrated into Home Assistant.
Honestly baffled by this. You load the dishwasher and then go sit down on your phone, open an app, and turn it on? And that will be preferable to clicking start as you close the door?
For the dishwasher, I don't have such a need. But for the washing machine, I find it helpful to get a notification when it's done. I usually close the bathroom door while it runs, so I don't hear when it's done and will often forget about it.
Dishes can sit in the dishwasher after it's done for however long it takes me to remember to unload them, but leaving damp clothes in a closed box is something I'd rather avoid.
Personally I just set a timer. Having a wifi connection to have your appliance use an api to ping your app which has to be signed in introduces quite a lot of failure modes.
No, I don't turn it on with the app, and it wouldn't be preferable to do that.
I'm happy to tell you why I like it to save you guessing again: I like knowing when the wash is done via a notification, and also to get status updates when things like salt are low.
The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.”
He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.”
“I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.”
In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.
“You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug.
From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door.
“I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out.
Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.
That, plus blocking all updates from the 'smart' devices; in the last few years, I dont remember anything getting better from updates, everything is actually getting way worse.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
There really is a limit to what smart devices a house "needs" vs what is absolutely unnecessary. Fridges, washers, dryers and stoves absolutely do not need to be smart. Smart lights, smart locks, smart garage doors and security systems (if those can be considered smart in this context) are all chill in my opinion, but the rest I simply don't understand the "why" of the product. Smart tvs were a decent idea, but that clearly went to shit quickly and now dumb tvs aren't even available anymore in styles like OLED - which is extremely frustrating.
There are definitely some uses for a washer and drier with "smart" capabilities. Just alerting me when the program is done so I can put the next load is great. The cycles are not "fixed time" anymore, they all weigh the load and end up variable.
I could do without them, and it's not the end of the world if the laundry stayed 20m or 1h longer in the drum. It's practical, and hopefully not a critical feature of the internal board. One could argue if alerting is really a "smart" feature either.
Smart lights are pretty darn nice. Having all exterior lights come on every sunset and turn off every sunrise is stellar - and that's not even getting into the great setup I have indoors.
- You might start a smart dishwasher remotely. But who is going to load it with dishes? And if the dishes are already loaded, why not just set a delayed start?
- Same with washing machines. Oh, they can also tell me when the detergent is running out, but I will see it during the next washing cycle.
- A smart oven can prepare warm food before you get back home from work. Assuming you want to keep your food in an oven at room temperature for the entire day.
Having seen how an electric oven fails, I don't ever want to run it when I'm not at home. The heating element turns into a sparkler and it looks (and sounds) like fireworks.
An official update hard (and permanently) bricked my S8 phone back when it was still the flagship. Samsung refused to fix or replace it because I had moved overseas meanwhile.
While "technically" correct, this never happened with iPhones.
I'd never buy a Samsung fridge, but ironically I'm loyal to Samsung phones because they've always worked out well for me and I've had bad experiences with Apple and Google hardware. I'd just never buy one of their smart appliances, or any smart appliance for that matter.
Once a product is sold, you are dead to me. Go away. That’s the Samsung philosophy. Note that it’s also the philosophy in most parts of the world outside the West. Once transaction is done, that’s it. go away.
That depends. If something doesn't last as long as I expect I'm going to look for a different manufacture, while if it lasts as long as I expect and they give good support I might buy (and more importantly tell my friends to buy). On expensive things I also research from the likes of Consumer Reports to see what lasts.
Honestly I just loathe korean tech. I still don't get what makes korean brands _extra_ shitty. Like these dark patterns are all over the world but somehow korean brands crank it up to one more level.
My 1984 HotPoint fridge with water and ice still works just fine other than occasional defrost leaks underneath. I pray I never have to replace it, but I have seen a few vintage ones like mine in perfect condition for sale. Adding more technology has not made these things last any longer, but it does add some convenience I suppose. I would prefer a 40+ year lifespan over a potential to brick the device during a test…
Napkin math for me puts newer fridges at 4x more efficient. I’ve got cheap hydro power in Canada, but that would still be about $150/year more in electricity use to keep the old one.
you can still easily buy new dumb fridges, smart fridges are still in minority and you will save lot of money on electricity compared to 40 year old fridge
In India where people buy the devices with lowest possible cost, i have never seen a smart washing machine so far and rarely a smart fridge. The cost of the smart module doesn’t offset the cost of spying yet i guess.
Me, in the US, tried to buy a non smart oven a couple years ago. I could not find one (that fit the space the old oven was in). I also did not see any with knobs that I could turn for less than $10k. They all had the plastic covered membrane buttons.
I wanted an induction hob/stovetop with knobs for my mum for usability. Super hard to find. She had just started to burn stuff on the old resistive unit because she was losing mobility. It had touch sensitive glass that has infuriated her for years (touch on hobs design is always a poor usability compromise).
Highly recommended upgrade for anyone with parents. I would now even go to trouble to import a unit with knobs (I asked at a heap of shops before luckily finding someone just beginning with a new line for their shop).
Finding usable devices and buying them for your parents takes a LOT of work, but the work really pays off when you get it right. I also gave them a microwave with knobs.
I don't know the US but in the UK quite a good thing is to go to Argos and select the cheapest stuff which usually lacks fancy buttons etc. Like here's an oven for £128 https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9418569
136 comments
[ 0.31 ms ] story [ 38.9 ms ] threadhttps://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-ri...
https://pvs-studio.com/en/blog/posts/cpp/0519/
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
IoT is not for me.
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
I expect the printer to use whatever inks it has on hand to print in the best quality it can.
The use of ink is an inevitability.
It always struck me as one of those things analogous to “I don’t understand why my car needs oil when I already put gas in it.”
Just give the machine the stuff it requires to operate.
It doesn't need that to operate, except in certain situations. The odds of being hit by a windshield-high wave of mud by a passing truck, when the sky is clear, are very low.
If you have a fancy modulating furnace and variable speed compressor or a variable speed heat pump, a thermostat that uses a PID would work better.
As far as the company is concerned it's primary job is personal data collection and being an ad platform. Anything else it does, like keeping your food cold, is an optional feature that can be remotely disabled at any time.
Source: https://learn.mdsdiabetes.com/wiki/how-long-insulin-unrefrig...
If you’re thinking about the domestic appliance, apparently since 1913 [1], so close enough (what a stupid name, though). AFAICT the first one with something that looks like the modern cooling loop is the first Frigidaire from 1916. But the concept of refrigeration to keep food for longer is older.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOMELRE
Why should anyone care about stuff that happens after Sales has gotten the customer's money?
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
Chest freezers would be more tricky if full and could take maybe up to a minute but we don't have those. If you are bad at tracking, make a list.
No, we really don't need 'smart' fridges and people should vote with their wallets.
Or, y'know, press the switch yourself.
There are scientific reasons to need the plot, but that is not normal and they likely need a special fridge with tighter controls or something anyway.
Plus, since it's a Sub-Zero, it's got a pretty cool finishing move.
https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0def6aed-0b5b-4856-874a-d97...
I am now eyeing my dishwasher very suspiciously.
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
(to ruin an otherwise good joke)
Software sucks a lot of the time and it often gets in the way, at least the way it's deployed over the last decade. Very few things in my home should connect to the internet. My phone and computers. Begrudgingly my TV now.
Also, those things that connect to the internet but don't let you have control? They get EOL'd, despite having paid a premium for them. I've never had a stove from this century and they all work fine, because why the hell wouldn't they?
I get triggered when watching my family or friends struggle with egregiously poor design.
I have avoidance techniques, so I can avoid facing the most anger inducing software.
I just feel lucky I'm not a graphic designer or architect or writer. How does someone with good taste even survive facing the outside world?
If you have any avoidance techniques that are easy to articulate, please share them.
Mostly just saying no to helping anyone with computer problems. Fortunately changed from Windows 7 to Linux, so I can be mostly honest when I tell people I don't understand their laptop problems.
Said no to helping family with with any printer issues after ~2005. I often print stuff, but I use the printer at my local library or printshop.
I still occasionally dabble, but only for those people I dearly love. I'm still very good at tech support, I just don't do it.
I've got my tech frustration level down to about the background radiation level (as politics or taxes).
"If you really hate someone, teach them to recognize bad kerning."
https://xkcd.com/1015/
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_hmwBBPnc
https://github.com/hn/bsh-home-appliances
My house came with Samsung front load washer and drier. They're not wonderful but they're still running for the 6 years I've lived here. I had to replace the drier drum after the rollers deteriorated and gouged out holes in the drum. Then I had to replace the rollers again after a year because I bought cheap rollers :(
https://theconversation.com/why-some-countries-give-away-fre...
Dishes can sit in the dishwasher after it's done for however long it takes me to remember to unload them, but leaving damp clothes in a closed box is something I'd rather avoid.
I'm happy to tell you why I like it to save you guessing again: I like knowing when the wash is done via a notification, and also to get status updates when things like salt are low.
He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.”
“I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.”
In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.
“You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug.
From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door.
“I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out.
Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
> All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
Or comply with idiotic energy conservation laws in places like Europe.
Literally anything, there is simply no real gain, potential for loss absolute.
I could do without them, and it's not the end of the world if the laundry stayed 20m or 1h longer in the drum. It's practical, and hopefully not a critical feature of the internal board. One could argue if alerting is really a "smart" feature either.
1. I can change the light in the bathroom while sitting in the bathtub.
2. I can have very nice colorful light synchronized with LEDs is display cabinets
- You might start a smart dishwasher remotely. But who is going to load it with dishes? And if the dishes are already loaded, why not just set a delayed start?
- Same with washing machines. Oh, they can also tell me when the detergent is running out, but I will see it during the next washing cycle.
- A smart oven can prepare warm food before you get back home from work. Assuming you want to keep your food in an oven at room temperature for the entire day.
While "technically" correct, this never happened with iPhones.
Don't buy Samsung consumer devices.
Any "centralization" is against humanity and nature.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a69060884/jeep-wrangler-4x...
After that in Q4 2025 Jeep cars had a 4% increase in sales in US
This is the world we live in, no-one seems to really care
Highly recommended upgrade for anyone with parents. I would now even go to trouble to import a unit with knobs (I asked at a heap of shops before luckily finding someone just beginning with a new line for their shop).
Finding usable devices and buying them for your parents takes a LOT of work, but the work really pays off when you get it right. I also gave them a microwave with knobs.