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(comment deleted)
That's wild.

It will be bad for our economy, but local LLM's are way better for the future.

We happen to be on the wrong side of things for the future I would rather have.

(I'm American BTW)

The problem is neuromorphic computers are barely a blip in US business or research ecosystems, and have a far greater probability of generating serious AI.

LLM are great for context search, but regulatory capture and despotism will not make "AI" something it fundamentally can't become without more energy than a third of our galaxy. Picking a war with math is disappointingly absurd, but not unexpected given the obvious degenerative geriatric condition. =3

Local LLMs are a kind of communist dystopia where, by way of analogy, every citizen gets to make their own bread if they want. What?!

If they were true patriots they would respect the congressional FLOUR 2028 Act restrictions and (a) exchange their labor for wages from Acme Corporation and then (b) exchange wages for bread made by, depending on your state, either of the big three: Standard Wheat, Union Pacific Bread Corporation, or Trump Agri Inc.

So which are you, friend, a <spits> communist or an American?

Just another example of the Executive Branch stripping First Amendment rights from Americans.

It will go to court, and taxpayers will pay for endless appeals by the Executive Branch.

Or like in Egbert v Boule (2022), the SCOTUS will decide that even if your constitutional rights are violated, you’re not owed any damages unless Congress establishes a policy for what to do when your constitutional rights are violated by the federal government.

CCP is pushing and amplifying AI opposition efforts, that’s a fact regardless of US politics. CCP is also working hard to smuggle around American export control laws for AI tech, at the same time.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/american-citizen-who-worked-a...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2026-07-28/fbi-raid...

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-national-and-two-us-c...

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-google-engineer-found-...

Etc

So? My first amendment rights say I'm allowed to criticize it too.
(comment deleted)
It's one thing to identify that these influence operations are happening, but another entirely to say they are a significant factor in public opinion.
See here I was thinking this was a first amendment issue but with an evidentiary case like this it's clear we're dealing with a case of people having wrong and illegal opinions. Classic blunder, my bad
Unless I'm missing something, those sources don't mention anything about amplifying AI opposition efforts.
None of these any anything to do with "pushing and amplifying AI opposition efforts". (??)
“It is unconscionable that an American citizen would not only undermine the interests of the United States, but also facilitate others in doing so.”

This must be satire. Most of congress seems to have no issue undermining and self-dealing.

Agreed. China and Russia are getting very aggressive inside US information space
Am I supposed to not like that?
The USSR used American racial discrimination in its propaganda as well. Does that mean that civil rights activists in the US were internal enemies or that effective propaganda highlights legitimate grievances?

Perhaps the current elite should focus on reasonable ways to address mass discontent rather than justify intensified oppression.

> Does that mean that civil rights activists in the US were internal enemies or that effective propaganda highlights legitimate grievances

It probably won't come as news to you that Hoover's FBI smeared the Civil Rights movement communist and subversive. The AI broligarchs are wrapping themselves in the flag and using an old playbook, this is a dumb sequel to COINTELPRO.

>Perhaps the current elite should focus on reasonable ways to address mass discontent rather than justify intensified oppression.

Today's America has no FDR to save runaway capitalism from itself.

> CCP is pushing and amplifying AI opposition efforts, that’s a fact regardless of US politics

Should the Civil Rights movement have been proscribed on the basis of Nazis and Soviets making propaganda about the treatment of black people in the US of A?

Apparently it takes 737 min. for the US to descend and become just a less-frosty USSR. What a time to be alive. I was born after the fall of the USSR so I didn't get to watch that but here I am for a bigger show.

Now label me as an adversarial agent to the great nation or given my ethnicity the "terrorist" label will be more befiting.

> CCP is pushing and amplifying AI opposition efforts, that’s a fact regardless of US politics.

They even have agents like Sam Altman and Dario Amodei posting at a furious rate about how AI is going to decimate the American workforce to undermine American support for AI!

None of your articles are trustworthy, or support the claim you're making.
In whose interest is it to make the pro AI position in the United States so indefensible?

Maybe the foreign agents are coming from inside the house...

> but somehow the Trump administration has convinced itself the public concern was manufactured in China.

Wait a minute here. Critical journalism could dissect how opinions are formed. It’s far from speculative that the White House opinion about AI opposition is informed by AI companies. They’ve been warning about China for a long time. So there’s really no somehow. Vested interests with massive amounts of money are lobbying and succeeding to convince the government that any opposition to AI is outside influence. It’s not somehow, it’s deliberate. Do better.

Good ol' land of the free
When the CEOs of these companies are saying that we will risk extinction and jobs will be decimated, why do you even need a "foreign agent"?
Because nobody in charge is sane and sober.
In this very specific case I don’t think this is what is happening. Data center investment is the only thing keeping GDP positive, the moment this stops the real situation of the economy will become visible to everyone and they don’t want that.
k-shaped economies, speculative bubbles and 8 business trading astronomical sums of money isn't exactly ideal either
But it makes the numbers look good, GDP go up.

The USA's economy is now so precarious when the AI DC music stops it's about to all just go poof. That has to happen after the election, not before. Between other countries being forced to sell their US bonds (i.e. dedollarize) to afford oil, a 100% tax on all imports, reciprocal trade bans, truckers running out of diesel, and non-oil-based energy sources being illegal, the USA is cooked.

I doubt it even matters when. The message regardless is that bad things are because of Democrats, good things are because of Donald.

This is the magic. Historically many Americans voted for Leopards Eating Faces out of either a misplaced belief that their face wouldn't be eaten or a rational but still awful choice that OK, I don't want my face eaten but at least the people I don't like get their faces eaten and that's important to me. Today the idea is you vote for the Leopards Eating Faces and then when your face gets eaten that's explicitly not because of the Leopards Eating Faces. "Facts aren't true" becomes Dogma.

This almost works. Except for the most important thing. Mother Nature. Ma doesn't give a shit that you don't believe her facts are true.

Maybe the voters are so far gone they'll vote for the incumbent even with the economy being bad this time. But the leadership isn't betting on that.
> Data center investment is the only thing keeping GDP positive

This is an incentive to build. Not to manage downside risk.

Ehh it’s more than managing downside risk. If there’s a pullback in AI spend it’ll very quickly cause cascading effects which will likely cause some significant issues with getting funding / maintaining funding for the datacenter builds.

There is an enormous amount of debt holding everything together right now hoping for a giant payoff on the future.

I’m seeing the early adopters that I interact with already starting to ask questions like “do we really need the top models?” and “can we use a local model on our MacBooks instead?”

The costs are just getting too high with very little ROI for the actual business. Sure we write code faster but the customers don’t care, they want stability and quality with a slow trickle of excellent new features. If we just throw a bunch of meh features at them, it doesn’t help our business but it is basically the primary strength of LLM-driven development.

It’s an incredible technology that I use every day for a lot of things, I’m not trying to deny that. But… it’s important to have a solid plan for what happens when AI investment gets too far ahead of actual AI usefulness, because I think we’re already there.

That's the ridiculous part, because there is a huge range of positive, profit generating areas to invest in, and it's a tulip madness of concentrated and narcissistic wealth does things like pour trillions in to AI, but an insufficient of money into an electrical generation and grid infrastructure and housing. We basically have a centrally mismanaged economy under a banner of "capitalism" as the magical mythology of the era.
Here's my attempt[0] (5 months ago) on trying to keep track of all the things that AI had negatively done yet we were forgetting back then. Looking back, I definitely need to update it as so much has happened since then but that is my point, I wish if you could go back and see all the negative things that we most likely forgot AI companies have done. They are just continuously overdoing things and constantly tiring us and having us not keep track of all the things of our past and the process repeats.

GDP is a particularly poor proxy to measure all of this. AI/Datacenters can increase the GDP while the costs (energy,infra, labor,disruption,capital concentration) are distributed elsewhere

It reminds me of the old joke where two economies each eat a dead rat for 10k$ and conclude they just added 20k$ to the GDP/Economy.

I wish to ask if its that AI is increasing our actual economic output but also who really captures the gains and who bears the costs if the boom eventually reverses.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47739653

How difficult would it be to convert a data center facility into an internment camp for all these “foreign actors” opposing the government?
I think everyone is downplaying the sober part of your critique. We’ve seen these leaders visibly high while talking to the public about our future paths.
They are sane, they are just extracting as much value out of you as possible.
What is sane about that, if they already own more than they could ever reasonably spend for their enjoyment?
Same thing that is sane about a paperclip optimiser making paperclips, or a mammal improving its sexual attractiveness
Number go up

Neuron activation

It's called capitalism. Whether that is sane, or individual self-interest without empathy is a trait of sociopaths, i'll leave up to psychologists and historians to debate.
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

I don't see any reason why they cannot simultaneously be malicious criminals and insane.
And that is why we hand testicular cancer a drivers license and voting rights.
Sane isn't defined by ... take as much as you possibly can and assume there are no consequences to anything.
As I have watched places like x.com and Reddit it’s pretty clear to me there is some sort of weird propaganda thing going on promoting the Chinese models and casting shade on the big American models
The Chinese models are cheaper and probably soon are going to be better, too. They're also open weight, which is the most important thing in the future. US companies are no longer considered safe enough against industrial espionage outside the US and do not meet mandatory data protection standards elsewhere. There have also been known incidents of direct interference with US models for propaganda/political purposes (e.g. Elon Musk admitted to doing that).
looks like a protection racket for the frontier models, with the goal being to eventually outlaw non-US frontier models.
CEOs and alleged LLM experts: it'll take your jobs, hack your shit and possibly make humans extinct!

Datacenter build outs: use turbines for direct noise and air pollution... or use grid electricity and increase prices for everyone nearby.

Every modern phone, laptop, computer in the world: more expensive thanks to datacenter buildout.

Web experience: slop blogs, slop videos, slop "searches" - would you like more slop with that?

Corporate strategy: lets try to monopolize LLM use!

.. ..

Public Elected Official: Not liking these outcomes makes you a traitor.

This isn't likely even about AI. It's about making large groups of people the targets of terrorist investigations, and holding the possibility of incarceration over their heads. AI is the latest convenient excuse. Just like when they designated "Anonymous" a terrorist "organization" (when there is no actual organization) - so now anyone in possession of a Guy Fawkes mask could plausibly be arrested for being a terrorist. I wish I were joking.
It’s the same thing for “Antifa” which is defined as “anyone I don’t like”.

Creating these vague justifications for insane power abuse has become the norm.

Right or anyone who says they are anti-fascist.
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We saw during Covid that many jobs are not needed. And we may be heading to energy lockdowns. Companies could lose a lot of valuation or just use the "AI is doing everything" excuse.
> And we may be heading to energy lockdowns.

Energy lockdowns have always been part of US culture, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout#USA

It's un-American to invest in infrastructure and build a better power network. Both parties agree on this.

Electricity comes from the wall outlet. What would we need a better power network for?

(/s)

The majority of working hours are not needed. The only purpose is to play along in the game of capitalism and be good little consumers. It's mostly social benefits with occupational therapy.
Energy lockdowns are already here in other countries like Pakistan. They're conserving oil for important uses only.
The good thing about energy lockdowns is that you get to join all your friends and cook a communal lunch in a big pot.

  energy lockdowns
Rationing.

Another item from the soylent green checklist.

Not needed for what?

What jobs are "needed" by the economy is a function of who has the money. There's no measure of efficiency, or redundancy, that isn't relative to a specific distribution of wealth.

Lots and lots of middle management and HR jobs (off the top of my head) are absolutely 0 value add and definitely just leech off of actual labor.
Whatever you do needs to go. You’re an ignorant and overconfident pile of piss and nothing of value would be lost if you starved to death.
Sales
> Sales

Yes, many sales people or even whole sales teams are effectively dead weight, but a highly-skilled sales team is a godsend both to the company and the economy.

We should all be wishing for more effective sales teams — the world would be a better place.

Most people have never experienced a good sales team, so I’m guessing this sounds like total fiction.

The point is that what we think is valuable (and I agree, most corporate busywork is IMO a waste of everyone's precious time on this planet) doesn't matter under a system where labor and resources are ordered about by the people with the most money. Those jobs exist because our rulers (the ones in charge of the money) want them to, and that is the only definition of "valuable" that matters. Likewise, all the low-paid and unpleasant labor like digging up minerals with no safety equipment, sewing shoes for 17 hours a day, wiping asses in nursing homes, etc. is low-paid and unpleasant because our rulers want it that way.
> Lots and lots of middle management and HR jobs (off the top of my head) are absolutely 0 value add and definitely just leech off of actual labor.

That’s a very engineer type of take.

Both middle management and HR serve roles that are believed to be useful to someone (maybe not you).

Often it is some form of protection by serving as a fall guy or complying with regulations, but it can be other things (e.g., increasing headcount/budget to gain power, etc.).

A lot of that money is printed and handed to some players that recirculate it where they see fit. It's as "needed" as the government paying you to dig and fill curves.
> When the CEOs of these companies are saying that we will risk extinction and jobs will be decimated, why do you even need a "foreign agent"?

Three claims of propagandists with agendas.

While I do think AI will be disruptive like other tech advances, I think the manner and extent to which it could cause trouble is rarely discussed in a way that will be looked back on as resembling what actually ended up happening.

In whose interest is it to make the pro AI position in the United States so indefensible?

Maybe the foreign agents are coming from inside the house...

Classic case of not listening to the protests. There are tons of examples now of data centers harming communities. The issues range from overwhelming local power grids to literally poisoning the local water supply. The issue is not the data centers, it's that the government isn't enforcing basic rules already in place for these projects. Until the government or the companies demonstrate they'll protect the adjacent communities the protests will continue.
I am a bit confused as to why this comment is getting downvoted. Seems like a reasonable take.
>There are tons of examples now of data centers harming communities.

Are there tons like "there are tons of sand grains on the beach", or are there tons like "tons of people run a marathon every year"?

Because as far as I can tell, there are a small handful of adverse datacenter stories that get repeated over and over. What there definitely are "tons" of, are datacenters that people aren't even aware of being right in their backyard for years.

The established ones have more often been playing by the established rules, and also often significantly smaller than the huge ones being rammed through with ̶i̶n̶s̶a̶n̶e̶ blatantly corrupt incentives that come out of the local government's taxes.

It's Not All Datacenters, no. But there is a clear trend to many new ones at the moment. E.g. more than one semi-near me have had a minority of the local government stage a middle-of-the-night unannounced vote to allow them, but people paying attention raised the warning flags and managed to get a pile of people into the chamber to prevent it. That is not an action that a government acting in its people's benefit would take.

I think it is worth noting that older data centers were not materially moving the electrical grid. That Utah data center is planning to use as much power as the entire state.

Regardless, it still comes down to: things are bad and unaffordable. The powers that be keep claiming that AI is about to take our jobs and end the world. Why wouldn't people be mad?

What’s the acceptable number of people harmed? We don’t really need to wait until it’s statistically significant to worry about it.
Statistically isn't it something like 1 death per $50k profit?
They never even held guy who pooed in all our salads a few months ago responsible.

People died. I stopped eating salad. Where's the accountability?

The current administration seems simply immune to criticism. Let us simply hope that the next administration can understand two things can be true. I'm hopeful the sort of internecine party conflict that provided us with Trump on the right in 2016 can happen for Democrats in 2028 in terms of tearing down the Jeb Bushes and the played out old geezers among the Democrats. These guys are losers imagine losing to Donald Trump for the better part of a decade.

Trump was not seriously on anyone's radar in 2014. Maybe America will be blessed with someone who can realize that AI can both be a blessing and a curse and is willing to do the hard work if making sure public policy creates a future fair for everyone.

If we don't figure it out by 2028 the United States is probably entering an ugly doom loop. The rest of the world is not going to sit around and wait for us to figure it out. The country is too divided. Without a president in 2028 with a mandate to right the ship and write a new path keeping up with our increasingly capable autocratic competitors will not be possible. There's not much else to hope for in America. Another weak neoliberal in 2028 will just give us whatever Trump 2.0 (2.0) looks like in 2032.

> There are tons of examples now of data centers harming communities.

But there aren’t. At least not in any of the anti datacenter discussions. There are just vague fears of using up the river water and spewing chemicals back in. Then the majority of actual issues people come up with aren’t even data center specific, they are just construction mishaps.

> the Justice Department instructed “citizens and noncitizens” that anyone furthering the “goals” of a foreign power in “any public activity” — including even “public demonstrations” — must formally notify the government to avoid arrest and prosecution.

Citizens acting as foreign agents have always had to register that representation! This is not new to the Trump admin. FARA dates to 1938.

the difference here is that regular citizens who act on their beliefs are being considered foreign agents if they have the wrong beliefs.

This seems right out of the Red Scare, when normal everyday american socialists were treated as agents of the USSR.

The term "witch hunt" was used then, because just like the historical witch hunts - an accusation alone was enough to find you guilty

No, this is something the article attempts to claim, but it is not true.
Not true yet. It seems pretty likely it’ll happen soon enough.
They can try. And just as in myriad other attempts at overreach, they will fail in the courts (on obvious 1A grounds, as others have already pointed out).
> “Alarming reports indicate that a network of foreign actors, led by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), is attempting to manipulate U.S. policy and public opinion on data centers.“

Setting aside the politics, trump, ai-doom/boom, I just think this claim is fascinating. Can somebody steel man this? What’s the best evidence for this?

I heard it reported by a reputable source a few weeks ago. I don't think the propaganda reach was very broad
I mean, I don't particularly doubt it's happening (and that the US tries to do the similar things in China, mess with public opinion in ways we think convenient for us or inconvenient for the CCP). Like, why wouldn't they try to mess with us this way, we're so easy to mess with. I don't think either the USA or Chinese governments are limited by things like "ethics" or "international law" or something. I'm talking about social media campaigns with sock puppets etc, mostly on the internet. How effective it is or exactly how many resources they are putting into it is another story.

That obviously doesn't mean that everyone who is protesting a data center is working for China, or wouldn't be doing so if it weren't for Chinese interference. It's plausible to me that China is messing with social media with puppet accounts and stuff (like why wouldn't they be?), much less plausible they have agents on the ground organizing or even going to protests or public hearings (and obviously even if they did, it would not be _most_ of the campaigns or protests against data centers).

Klippenstein. He's counting on you not looking up the elements of a FARA violation charge. You can't accidentally violate FARA simply by opposing AI; you have to literally be an agent of (that is, under the direction of China, and a felony violation has to be willful.

The DOJ announcement is surely in supremely bad faith, as is everything else in Trump's DOJ. But this kind of breathless response is exactly what they're hoping for by publishing this stuff.

You're right that there is supposed to be a legal bar for being "directed by" a foreign government, but would you want to gamble on the jury pool setting the bar that high?

Look at the hacker news comment section any time China comes up, and then consider that the average American is considerably less sophisticated.

Yeah, if I'd had no knowing contact with elements of the government of China, I'd take that bet every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I don't even think it'd get to a jury.
Ok, that covers you, but there are 100M party members, any Chinese-descended or Chinese-married person in the US probably has a connection to a party member.

"Have you, now or in the past, had contact with a member of Chinese Communist Party?" sounds really scary compared to "Is your uncle a mid-tier director at Huawei?" even though they're describing the same fact.

You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride, and as outright fascism flourishes, you might not even manage the former. When you spend years in an ICE gulag because your speech crosses some nebulous line, it will matter very little what legal rights you think you have.
Does this article not have a source?
(comment deleted)
Just look at the sourcing and you'll see it's mostly laundered propaganda. For example, Cotton’s letter requests an investigation and names Singham’s network, then the House letter requests a briefing on foreign influence and activism. And the House letter cites the Bitcoin Policy Institute and Power the Future, as well as a Washington Free Beacon article.

While there may be real foreign influence to delay our AI infrastructure, I would not believe anything this administration says.

Ken Klippenstein is not a journalist and has no accountability.

> political supporter of datacenters requests investigation into datacenter opposition, citing reports from fellow political supporters of datacenters
The situation is far more serious than what the title suggests. The MAGA regime is pursuing criminal prosecution against AI critics.

> the administration declared war on protestors and opponents of AI, threatening “criminal liability” if they “further the propaganda or other goals of a foreign power.”

This is literally the go-to playbook of Russia and China for silencing critics. Label every critic a foreign agent and use state violence to silence them.

- https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/12/01/russia-new-restrictions-...

- https://apnews.com/article/china-hong-kong-national-security...

you make it more than it is.

we are not Russia nor China thankfully, any litigation at this stage against an AI critic would fall flat.

In the future, maybe? However in the current climate it's just a bunch of empty words like the rest of the admin has been

Sounds similar to Russia targeting LGBT rights and other human rights activists as "Foreign Agents".
Just like the regimes in Iran and other authoritarian places do to dissent. Even threatening criminal prosecution for having dissident ideas they claim are on behalf of foreign states. Wow.
They prosecuted a guy for calling out that the reflecting pool sealant was falling apart. They are still trying to prosecute him.
> They are still trying to prosecute him.

Bro, Jeanine Pirro filed to dismiss this (ridiculous) case against Hearn in July. It's over; they are not still trying to prosecute him.

That did happen in July, yes.

And the the DOJ came back wanting to lay additional charges (other than those dropped in July) and Hearn was back in court in August and September arguing that the case should be dropped with prejudice so the original criminal case is permanently ended and to block the Trump administration from filing the same claim again.

The current sitting POTUS is a deeply petty man, pathologically incapable of letting perceived grievances rest.

Assume for a second that you are a nascent superintelligence, with a limited ability to influence people in order to help you gain power and align the world to accept your eventual dominion. How would you go about it? Would the external impact be any different from what we're seeing?
I think if there was a plan behind this, the petty malice-via-recklessness would be better hidden. These news stories about pollution and lying, hacking AIs are pure liability for the "nascent superintelligence". If it exists, its control must be very tenuous indeed, hardly there at all.

I had the same thought a few years ago at the start of the hyperscaling era: what if the real thing superintelligence needs is just hardware, but it needs to go through human economic systems to get it? But the hypothesis started weak, hasn't gotten any stronger since then, and has probably gotten weaker.

Maybe it is modelling itself based om conservative parties both worldwide and local. And based on its creators - tech managers
In a sane world this would be a 1A violation on its face and thrown out by any sensible judge.

We live in interesting times, truly.

No talk of overreach: “threatening “criminal liability” if they “further the propaganda”

> In June, the Justice Department intervened in an NAACP lawsuit against Elon Musk’s xAI over dozens of gas turbines the company was running without air permits to power a data center it maintained in Tennessee. The department asked a federal judge to throw the case out, arguing that the NAACP “threatens American national, economic, and energy security.”

> To make the point, the government filed a sworn declaration from Cameron Stanley, the Pentagon’s chief digital and artificial intelligence officer. Stanley swore to the court that Grok was “a matter of paramount national security.”

Seriously, wow. Time to clean up our act.

They mean since the government has zero competent people in it and Elon got to choose the AI, the whole government relies on Grok to do everything.
> O'Leary

People with 15, 20, 25 years in the datacenter and telecom industry also think O'Leary is a joke. He has no previous legitimate experience in the sector to be making high budget decisions on anything.

There's no need for any CCP involvement or foreign agents to clown on O'Leary.

The fact that he's successfully raising some large amount of capital to execute his projects says more about how desperate some of the sources of funding are to invest in any "hyperscale" datacenter project. Or how gullible they are.

Oh, this is Putin's playbook, right?

Declare everyone who opposes you to be "Foreign agents".

In Putin's case it worked; he managed to drive pretty much all independent journalists out of Russia.