If Flock wants to be used by public services, it should be subject to maximum transparency. If you don't want your camera locations public, don't offer them to the public for their use.
It’s hilarious that the entire business model is based on aggregating information recorded in public, and now they’re objecting to having their information publicly recorded and aggregated.
Perhaps if they could explain why they don’t want that information to be available, they’ll understand how their victims feel.
IMO, when they have to hide, that's the beginning of the end. Too many people are aware of the what/why now. And above all else, once the tables turn on elected officials and they realize they're under the same surveillance, I bet their tune will change (likely due to a public egg-on-face moment involving illegal or suspicious activity). If people keep the pressure on, this will be a "remember when" rather quickly.
Politicians are humans who knowingly choose to enter public office for the sake of exercising power, whether for altruistic or nefarious reasons (or some combination thereof).
The power is why politicians deserve greater scrutiny than the average person, and anyone who wants to keep their privacy intact can choose not to run for office. The loss of privacy (usually at the hands of the press) is already an implied cost of running for and holding office.
I generally agree, but want to point out that recently politicians have come under physical attack by supporters of their political enemies. In the USA there have been actual killings of politicians. Elsewhere there have been assaults.
If exposing their data leads them to be attacked more, then we need to be careful with this.
Highly unlikely (but hey, anything's possible when you're flirting with an authoritarian regime). They would need to demonstrate that the map was made TO destroy cameras if to have real merit.
Clickbait. The website proprietor received a 3rd party trademark infringement complaint. If people in the company would prefer the map to be offline, they are taking a very roundabout way of accomplishing it.
On Thursday, Michael was notified that Doppel, which describes itself as an “AI-native social engineering defense platfom,” filed a trademark infringement complaint regarding his site, claiming to be working on Flock’s behalf. Doppel says that the site is using the trademark “FLOCK SAFETY” without authorization, which “may cause customer confusion / harm.” Doppel requested the site be taken down.
The fact that they can't go to the court and say "It pisses me off that this guy is doing what he's doing" and instead have to, ya know, try a case based on the actual laws that exist, seems to be confusing you about what "direct legal action" is.
The article's headline is the claim: "Flock Wants the Most Detailed Map of Its Surveillance Cameras Taken Offline"
The basis for this is an undisclosed trademark letter from a 3rd party. The company in question may or may not want the map taken down. However, the article offers scant evidence for the headline claim. That is why it is clickbait. It promises something large and delivers something minimal.
The security researcher in question has certainly made a splash however. Promising new levels of people mad at Flock is definitely the way to create some bona fides.
Is it your opinion that the letter was likely not sent on behalf of Flock, and this Doppel company is lying about being affiliated with Flock?
If so, what do they stand to gain by doing this? Is it even possible for a company to file a trademark letter on behalf of trademark owner without being affiliated?
I have no opinion one way or another. My first guess is that they have an IP protection firm that goes out and protects their trademarks like any normal company. The action is content neutral in the sense that it doesn't matter if it is the official Flock fan club or hate club. Is it more likely that some evildoer at Flock is twisting their mustache saying "I know how to eliminate this map site—the Streisand Effect!"
The article makes a strong claim and then provides weak substance. An accurate headline is "Flock Map Website Sent a Trademark Notice."
Let's assume that Flock wants to take the website down. How do you think they should go about doing it?
If the site does get taken down due to this trademark dispute and Flock has the deniability of "well it was just the company we hire to do trademark protection, it's not our fault, we didn't do this intentionally" didn't they achieve their aims with plausible deniability that you are affording them here?
If the site has trademark issues, it is irrelevant if the company has the site's removal as a goal or not. The site could address the trademark issues by altering its infringing materials, or if deciding the claims are spurious, legally challenging or ignoring them, and move on. The site's security consultancy proprietor has more to gain by claiming it has forbidden data.
Is that the description of the law firm? Because it sounds like how a law firm would self-describe. Let's get some founders of law firms to put this in their mission statements.
Furthermore, the EFF and Cory Doctorow could embrace this slogan. Especially the FSF. Richard M. Stallman would totally have adopted this description 35+ years ago.
Using a 3rd party trademark enforcement company is an excellent way to minimize PR fallout for a company wanting to silence transparency around (or criticism of) a company.
Let's be real here; Would Doppel give any fucks about trying to do a trademark request if Flock wasn't paying them money?
I look forward to trying to understand your reasoning.
3rd party copyright enforcement goes out an spams anything they think will get their stats up. I doubt anyone would know about this site if the security researcher behind it wasn't able to make some press with "I got a trademark notice!" The claim is "Flock Wants ..." and the evidence is "someone got a trademark C&D."
I am starting a surveillance company in the US. I'll sell the data to anyone who wants. I'll put cameras up wherever I like, call it protection of the people, the police will enjoy it doing a lot of work for them and then I'll point cameras squarely at my competition, 24 hours a day, 365 a year, until they ask for regulations.
Hey just like my car, when it is in public you can't expect privacy. The cameras cam track us in public but we can't track the cameras in public? Sorry if you take away my privacy then I'll take away yours too. Everything tracked, logged, and cataloged.
It's public information. Courts have already ruled that if it's in public, you can photograph and document it. If anything, this will be a giant Streisand effect.
> [Doppel] filed a trademark infringement complaint regarding his site, claiming to be working on Flock’s behalf. Doppel says that the site is using the trademark “FLOCK SAFETY” without authorization
Warning to anyone who receives these types of notices from Doppel. They are a defamation-as-a-service company. If the frivolous trademark notice doesn't work, they will follow it up with a letter to your host claiming that you're running a phishing website. If your host is lazy and paranoid (like OVH), they will block your IP immediately, and you'll have to deal with the fallout. Expect the letter to be sent on a Friday afternoon too.
My biggest take away from this is that there's still a market niche for small, independent, feisty hosting companies that have some balls. The bigger a hosting company gets the more likely it is to near fully automate its abuse process.
> If your host is lazy and paranoid (like OVH), they will block your IP immediately
I would guess that this is something like a process that, if it's even reviewed by a human at all, some grossly overworked, underqualified and underpaid person working in a call center type environment looks at it for 20 seconds in a massive abuse queue pile of tickets, and has a GUI button in front of them to mash which disables an account and all its services immediately.
So why can't people do the same to Doppel? Back in the day folks use to take bad people offline, take down their sites, their phone lines, turn off their electricity. They are lucky these stupid kids hacking rubbish sites haven't found them yet and a will to fight what some might consider the good fight.
They are also lucky that folks are not fighting them in court and draining their wallets.
You see, we live in a country where there are two legal systems. The one for us, and the one for them. In our legal system, we will be held to the full extent of the law for our damages committed, and will even have to pay restitution.
In their legal system, they commit wild fraud or security lapses that lead to massive harm to individuals, and have to pay a fine, and get to keep operating as usual.
It's time Americans learnt a few facts about the rest of the world..
Pretty much every major road in the UK is covered in ANPR. Yes, the UK sucks in many ways, but ANPR is nowhere near as bad as the haters think it is.It's not the penultimate step towards authoratarianism.
The technology is only half of the puzzle; the other half is the availability of the data. For example, many toll roads use license plate readers. Police cruisers may also read a license plate.
Flock the technology would be less of a problem if it had reasonable guards around access, such as requiring search warrants for each query, in each jurisdiction the results touch.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 33.5 ms ] threadPerhaps if they could explain why they don’t want that information to be available, they’ll understand how their victims feel.
The power is why politicians deserve greater scrutiny than the average person, and anyone who wants to keep their privacy intact can choose not to run for office. The loss of privacy (usually at the hands of the press) is already an implied cost of running for and holding office.
If exposing their data leads them to be attacked more, then we need to be careful with this.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Giffords
At the end of the day, the cameras are out in public in plain view. There's no credible argument that Flock camera locations are private information.
I'm sure the wildly circuitous routes generated will be useful for rhetorical purposes though.
The basis for this is an undisclosed trademark letter from a 3rd party. The company in question may or may not want the map taken down. However, the article offers scant evidence for the headline claim. That is why it is clickbait. It promises something large and delivers something minimal.
The security researcher in question has certainly made a splash however. Promising new levels of people mad at Flock is definitely the way to create some bona fides.
If so, what do they stand to gain by doing this? Is it even possible for a company to file a trademark letter on behalf of trademark owner without being affiliated?
The article makes a strong claim and then provides weak substance. An accurate headline is "Flock Map Website Sent a Trademark Notice."
If the site does get taken down due to this trademark dispute and Flock has the deniability of "well it was just the company we hire to do trademark protection, it's not our fault, we didn't do this intentionally" didn't they achieve their aims with plausible deniability that you are affording them here?
Is that the description of the law firm? Because it sounds like how a law firm would self-describe. Let's get some founders of law firms to put this in their mission statements.
Furthermore, the EFF and Cory Doctorow could embrace this slogan. Especially the FSF. Richard M. Stallman would totally have adopted this description 35+ years ago.
> Is that the description of the law firm?
Did you read the article? That is a quote from the article, typo and all.
Let's be real here; Would Doppel give any fucks about trying to do a trademark request if Flock wasn't paying them money?
I look forward to trying to understand your reasoning.
If anyone would like to kickstart let me know.
Warning to anyone who receives these types of notices from Doppel. They are a defamation-as-a-service company. If the frivolous trademark notice doesn't work, they will follow it up with a letter to your host claiming that you're running a phishing website. If your host is lazy and paranoid (like OVH), they will block your IP immediately, and you'll have to deal with the fallout. Expect the letter to be sent on a Friday afternoon too.
> If your host is lazy and paranoid (like OVH), they will block your IP immediately
I would guess that this is something like a process that, if it's even reviewed by a human at all, some grossly overworked, underqualified and underpaid person working in a call center type environment looks at it for 20 seconds in a massive abuse queue pile of tickets, and has a GUI button in front of them to mash which disables an account and all its services immediately.
They are also lucky that folks are not fighting them in court and draining their wallets.
You see, we live in a country where there are two legal systems. The one for us, and the one for them. In our legal system, we will be held to the full extent of the law for our damages committed, and will even have to pay restitution.
In their legal system, they commit wild fraud or security lapses that lead to massive harm to individuals, and have to pay a fine, and get to keep operating as usual.
It's time Americans learnt a few facts about the rest of the world..
Pretty much every major road in the UK is covered in ANPR. Yes, the UK sucks in many ways, but ANPR is nowhere near as bad as the haters think it is.It's not the penultimate step towards authoratarianism.
Flock the technology would be less of a problem if it had reasonable guards around access, such as requiring search warrants for each query, in each jurisdiction the results touch.
https://overpass-turbo.eu/